313 1/8th B&C or 313 1/8th Whatever

Out of respect for the late Ray Murski and his family, I don't want to say something wrong. The ranch this gorgeous animal came from actually has no record of this deer ever being in their pens, hes basically a ghost. No genetic alteration of any kind. I am not the ranch foreman, I outfit hunts for many ranches in the North Texas area, and Ray's son Mike is a close friend of mine. The animal was harvested cleanly, and ethically. He wasn't shot in or out of a pen or anything of the sort. As for my client that has harvested 2 of these magnificent animals that I have posted on here, he is a cancer survivor, and is into his 60's, and right now doesn't care what it cost to shoot basically anything, hes just happy to be alive. If I offended anyone by offering any more Hunts in the "Photo" section, I apologize, but in my post I didn't see a price list or anything of that nature, sorry if that offends you all. As for the tag, I truly never noticed it, and never knew he had one, it doesn't bother me in the least to harvest an animal with a tag, sorry I left it in the picture. I can promise you this I have deer on other ranches with tags in their ears that can not be harvested due to their intelligence. I welcome you to take a look at the animals on these ranches and I promise you that 90% of you couldn't tell me the difference between a 3 year old and a 5 year old, because their bodies are so large. I also was under the impression that this sight was to honor our sport that I love and to praise the animals that we raise, whether it be high or low fence, and to also congratulate the hunter as well as the ranch for the harvest regardless if it cost $100,000 or $1,000. After these ridiculous comments received on this picture of this incredible animal, ill stick to using the fishing forum and keep posting picks of all the 10 pounders I caught out of Fork this year, or is that considered BS as well.

Well said. I wished you would give it another chance and stay. I enjoyed looking at the pics of the amazing deer you posted. As I am sure the majority of the forum did. Try not to let a few turd heads run you off.

Don't be offended by other people's post, just like the fishing forum you have guys that live their life by the "if you are not doing it my way, your doing it wrong" mentality.

Some people are always going to hate on high fences. Don't let it stop you from posting on this forum.

I am not a deer hunter..I just looked at those photos, that is one nice deer. Be proud and don't worry about the negative posts... Congrats on the deer

When you use words like "The animals we raise" it freaks me out. Sounds like you let people hunt Livestock. I know there is a difference....... as cows can actually get out of a low fence.

watworm2...the buck was truly spectacular...just out of curiosity when was the buck killed ? Noticed it still had some dried velvet...I do believe that all of us invite opinions when we post responses or photos...I have sure enough received some differing thoughts and that is just the nature of the beast. We all have different views or thoughts and often are passionate about them...just my sir...

rick

@ Barcelona Rick, the deer was harvested last Tuesday, and as for the Velvet, the animal had so many tines there was no way to remove it all.

@ TF Panther, I don't know how you were raised, but I was raised to be a Stewart of the animals I hunt and harvest, high fence or low fence, on our low fence ranches if im feeding them and know them from year to year then im raising them, same as high fence. You obviously never seen a whitetail really jump, if they want out they gonna get out, 8, 10 , or even 12 foot fences. In my 15 years of raising High Fence animals ive seen them clear them all without ever clicking their heels.

Because no one ever passes on deer on low fence, and no body ever has 1-7 years worth of history on a deer on LF as the watch it age year after year

[quote=watworm2]@ Barcelona Rick, the deer was harvested last Tuesday, and as for the Velvet, the animal had so many tines there was no way to remove it all.

I wondered about that...I bet he tore up some cedar trees trying to get "clean up"...

rick

There's a chance several neighbors have that history too

BOBO I worked near a small county airport that was heavily wooded on three sides for 31 years...the company property was about 30 acres and we had a large deer herd to watch year round. We watched a true giant mature over a 6 - 7 year period of time...he was massive for our area. We would see him on the airport property and he bedded in a thicket behind our shop building...he would cross a small field near the main office building just about everyday...hunting was not allowed so as far as we know he died of old age...once I was sitting in my truck on the backside of the property and out he came at about 10 yards...I had a .357 magnum S&W Model 66 and you can guess what went thru my mind...I needed the job more than the buck so he walked...

rick

wheres this airport of which you speak?

PM'ed you sir...

rick

Watworm2....Why justify yourself to those that clearly have their head stuck up a dark hole? Though I am pleased that you did. Having been a part of the THF for as long as I have it gives me great joy to have the fellowship of like minded hunters that enjoy the sport such as you. I have also made many GREAT friends here and I am sure I will continue to do so. What pisses me off is the haters, trolls and the likes that think they need to hang their hat on something they know nothing about. To produce a working HF Ranch like the one you are on takes an exact recipe of time, feed, genetics and SWEAT EQUITY. Something most of the "haters" know nothing about. There is so much more to BIG DEER than just filling a barrel full of corn and praying Goliath comes in.

Do you hate Michael Jordan because he could dunk a basketball, do you hate Neil Armstrong because he went to the Moon, do you hate Daryl Waltrip because he could drive fast in a circle?

I am pleased by your candid response and the "gentleness" in which you have done so, but I am also disgusted at the comments and rude banter about High Fence continuously on this forum. I have said it before....let the haters hate, most of them know NOTHING about what they say. Do what you do best, grow deer, High Fence, Low Fence, makes no difference to me....If I could....I would do exactly what you are doing and invite no haters to harvest the deer the Good Lord has gifted me with....whether I bought the damn things or not. God Bless, God's Speed and Keep up the great attitude and hard work.

I'm just sorry I missed the picture. Irregardless congratulations on such a great harvest and most of all him beating cancer. I know how you feel though. There's always a jack hole or two who are the almighty great hunters/ fisherman/ game biologist expert on any forum. Don't let that push you away. There are a lot of good folks on here.

I don't want to start a LF vs HF debate because it is senseless. But, I do wish we had a HF hunting section on this site. I have nothing wrong with someone HF hunting, and I might do it someday myself.

However, an animal taken in a HF is not qualified for B&C or P&Y for several reasons. And, there is no comparison between a deer taken in a HF vs LF free range environment. When I left 130" deer walk to make it to 150" and then let them walk to get to 170" and then let them walk to get to 190" plus, there are way more factors involved on that deer having a chance to survive that long. Heck, a buck in rut may and will travel up to and over 10 miles searching for hot does. And, a lot of hunters will have an opportunity to harvest him on this journey. I could go on and on with examples.

Again, I am not against HF, I just have an open mind on what it is and why B&C and P&Y do not recognize it. And, I agree with the reasoning behind the decision.

Look down a few threads and the pics are there sir...titled 313 1/8th B&C

rick

Why do we need more segregation amongst hunters than we already have? We need hunters in the sport how ever we can get them as long as the deem their hunting style, hunting choice and weapon choice ethical. There is only one "book" I care to live by and it don't have animal records in it.

I didn't say to segregate the hunters....we have a bow hunting section don't we? There are big differences in bow, rifle and high fence hunting and an animal taken in each have their own scoring titles (well bow and rifle do). I think it is time to have a scoring title for HF as well. Like I said, I have nothing against the sport of HF hunting, I just think it is important we distinguish between them.

doesnt SCI take HF game? or am i dumb?

Mr Clean has posted my exact thoughts

That's what I was thinking too..

which one...

I guess I am the dumb one....I always thought SCI took free range and estate (HF) animals.

I was talking about a scoring award for HF only animals, so they can easily distinguished.

i think they do take both too but not sure.

I'd pay Good money to see a whitetail jump a 10 or 12 foot fence.

I've seen them jump 8' fences, but a 10 I'm gonna say no. A 12' fence, ain't no way

X2

As long as it is high fenced, no matter the size, it is a pen.

In my opinion, there is nothing ethical or hunting about shooting penned animals.

BOTH!

This is a Nobel prize winning post right here

Next are you going to tell us that women have smaller brains than men and rugs are inherently lazy?

wait, you mean to tell me.....

boy, if the current IBA thread wasnt going in the bowhunting section i might tell you to meet me halfway, wait, hasnt that been done before too?

Thank you Mr. Clean, I love the controlled environment in which we can raise and harvest our animals like it was intended, and will never feel ashamed about hunting them the way we do. I love my animals, and truly am blessed to be able to do what I do. There's nothing more exciting then seeing what they will be the next year, and to not have to worry about some jake hole shooting them as soon as they cross the fence because it has 8 points or just antlers. I hunt Low fence as well and put the same effort in with those animals as I do with my HF guys, and don't reap the rewards ever. B&C is just a scoring method, they Have SCI, trophy big game awards, and many others, and there is many high fence categories available. Which this year this particular animal will most likely be right up there at the top of. Thank you to the level headed gentlemen on this forum who can appreciate this animal as much as I do.

5redman8, you obviously don't know the anatomy of a whitetail, just cause its a fence does not mean they cant get out. They do all the time, ive seen our 45lb fawns clear fences, we have two yearling bucks right now that are named Boing 1, and Boing 2, because they go where they want, every weekend we find one of them in a different pen.

As requested here are the two my customer harvested
313 1/8
And 241 4/8

Now brother I was totally on your side until this part of your statement...if a hunter wants to shoot whatever is legal on his side of the fence then so be it...looks like you are thinking with a double standard sir...no flame but just think about your statement...cause not everybody is an antler hunter...

rick

Sorry for the statement, about Jake Hole. Yall have a nice day.

watworm2 I just sent you a PM sir...

rick

I did too, but no response.

Check that. He posted pics. That's what I wanted to see.

Awesome deer!

Without a doubt, the best part of having a hf operation is watching your bucks grow each year and having the much better opportunity for them to reach maturity. We had friends with a breeding operation in Oklahoma when I was growing up and had some great times at their place watching the bucks and seeing 6 sets of their sheds and how they progressed year over year.

I have no problem others others hunt HF. Just don't call it B&C as B&C doesn't recognize high fence. Call it SCI or inches, whatever. 300+ is a HUGE deer!

gold jacket, green jacket....how does it affect you in any way the method in which that deer is scored or what it is called?

B&C is a universally accepted method of scoring deer, he isnt saying it is a B&C record or that its in the B&C book, its a simply a method of scoring that most people will recognize and understand. does B&C "recognize" a 147" buck?

I think you are wrong because B&C uses a net score, who really uses a net score except B&C?

I use B&C gross on deer that aren't B&C all the time

Maybe they need to create a category with a * in front of the scores.

Good thing you have a HF, because if one of your bucks jumped the fence onto my property, I would be a Jack Hole!!!

Rob this is Mark Watson, met you during the Pack event. Why you gotta be getting on me man lol, JK. I was just saying B&C as a general expression.

P&Y does...

Its unfortunate that we are all going back and forth with each other over some great looking deer that were posted.

I think going forward it might reduce these arguments if op's are more thoughtful about how they post the harvests and what they say.

Making sure ear tags are removed and not mentioning that you have other animals available, especially throwing out prices on those animals, which this op didn't do but I've seen other posts on here lately that have. Then throwing the phone number out there as well.

I believe if we all post are harvest along with the hunting story if you feel inclined to do so we could possibly reduce the banter that takes place afterword and keep things on the positive congratulatory side.

Deer like that are always going to elicit negative comments, with or without the tags. I understand what you are saying, but I personally wouldn't take the extra steps to remove tags or cover ear holes. People are either going to be ok with it or hate it...

It doesn't matter if I said anything about more hunts, or even put my number on there. So I didn't see the ear tag till after I took the pic, I honestly didn't even know the deer had a tag, because 80% of the deer that age on the ranch don't have them (shoot me), people will still have a negative opinion period, and that's why I will not advertise or post on this forum again, because of all the BS ive had to read today. If you posted a pic of a truck that someone bought, and you had a cpl more to sale 99.9% of the people on here would mention it. IM DONE

So you let the minority get your panties in a wad and dictate your activity going forward? You realize yours isn't the only HF operation on here, right?

And I don't think he was referring to you posting and putting your number on here..

100% understand that, ya it does dictate my activity on here because I read this same kinda crap on 90% of every HF post on here. Its not worth it to my business to portray an animal and get all the negative publicity. So ill continue to do what ive done and keep it out of Social sites.

Guess that is the way of the world...minorities control the majority. Have a good one and thanks for sharing what you did

Mark, you are fine. I respect your legal right to hunt HF. I'm just not a HF hunter and I'm a little outspoken making sure LF gets the respect it deserves. LOL, Cody is my favorite bass fisherman and guide in the world and he's mainly a HF hunter.

Mark. Don't let a few haters run you off...tag or no tag! It's obvious those monster deer are HF because like you said LF peps like me wouldn't give the deer time to grow another year even if he was half that big because neighbors would shoot it ....If I could afford to buy 1000 acres and HF it I would in a heartbeat.

who are you trying to make sure gets the credit "they" deserve, the LF hunter or the LF deer?

If its about the deer, acknowledge the deer and move on, but i fear in most cases its not about the deer at all.

This ^^^^^^^^^ if it were only about the deer no hunters name would ever be mentioned.

watworm...you need to stick around my man. Don't let people get under your skin. Those deer are bad A$$ and huge. I love looking at the pics.

deer are great. dont let a few jealous people run you off. I dont care if it is hf or lf. Lack of respect shown from them is frustrating. I bet they feel like studs when they shoot the 2 year old buck on the low fence they are hunting. Cool Deer

That's a very good point.....BUT why should every individual have to double check, triple check, and then call in the editor to check twice more so they won't get trolled by the haters? Why can't everyone just comment in a nice or adult manner? I know it's a very long shot on hopes of that changing. I was always raised to either say something nice or don't say anything at all. Folks need to give the hunter a congrats or go complain elsewhere. Most of the members are grown adults, at least by age...let's all try to act more like it and be classy.

Hold on!!! Lake Fork. You even fish high fence??? LMAO!!!!

What picture?

Ok. So next week your hunting in CO and you see a 220" net typical mulie deer... guide says hurry up and shoot but before you can it runs 30yards and is now on an Indian Res.

By some freak miracle an Indian cheif steps out from a bush and says I give you permission to shoot that deer and gives you an indian tag.. and you shoot a top 3 B/C mulie ever....but guess what... its not eligible to be entered into the record book, just because it walked 30 yards on to a tiny little plot of indian land.

So via the B/C ethics you didn't ethically kill that mulie....even though it was free range, and you broke no laws,

Well.......bye.

I agree.

And op's don't have to double and triple check what they post.

I'm just making a suggestion to consider to reduce all the negativity. I'm not saying its going to eliminate it. We all know it won't.

What it boils down to is if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say it at all. If you don't like high fence hunting then don't read or comment. It is really that simple people. Actually it is common sense. But there are so many guys that live off of drama so...

Bye

Food for thought:

I do not understand LF hunters. The majority harvest deer way before they reach maturity. They post pictures of their small bucks and expect a comment like "Nice Buck" or "Way to go". They are unsure of how to even age a deer because they are always posting pictures of a deer at the feeder asking " How Old is this one" They don't even have the mental capacity to score a deer on the hoof... "What will he Score". They always hide their mistakes behind the excuse "well not bad for a LF ranch". They change leases like most people change their underwear. They over hunt properties only for the personal benefit of lowering their cost per gun. 10 hunters on 640 acre. As does all the surrounding leases. A deer could not fart without 3 on the lease hearing it. Oh yes they are high and mighty because this is Fair Chase.

Those LF majority of so called hunters, who cut down all HF ranches, do so because they do not have the guts to criticize adjoining LF hunters for over hunting, shooting younger bucks, practicing no management plan what so ever. They find it much easier to Pick on the smart landowner who realized he cannot get these trigger happy hunters to lay off the deer so they can mature. Leaving him little choice but HF the LF hunters out.

Just remember the above is an example showing criticism can work both ways but none of it helps us keep the right to hunt.


In closing I am so thankful I can hunt LF, HF,NF. I respect everyones right to enjoy the outdoors. God Bless this great country, and I wish everyone success no matter where you decide to enjoy.

As most agree if you don't have something good to say why say anything. Let's all look inward before we throw a stone that only hurts hunting and/or divides.

If one comment ran off the OP then we as outdoorsman should be ashamed.

Lol # 1

And #2

SheepHunter things were going pretty good (IMHO) until OP called the hunter on the other side of the fence "Jake Hole" if he shot big boy or something smaller...that statement opens OP for criticism and shows his disdain for those that meat hunt or believe that any legally killed deer is a trophy...he can't have it both ways...if he is going to take offense at criticism for his views then he should not talk down to those that hunt for meat...he did retract but then bailed when he got more heat...

rick

I didn't mind the jake hole comment myself..I understood what he meant. Nothing wrong with shooting a legal deer....but some people he was referring to shoot all there tags,moms,kids,cousins and so ons tags. In the case of one near me,it's done on there 7 acre piece of property. Why was jake hole so offensive? I've seen a lot worse said on here ..

wow you too? now i knows how texas dan feels...

x2! If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all. Now, if he posted and asked for opinions, then that's a different story and he's open to everything. It's like this on all forums these days...people lose respect on forums and say things they normally wouldn't face-to-face.

If everyone sticks their heads in the sand and only nice things are said, the world would be a boring place full of mindless drones.

You post on a public forum....public....full of differing opinions.

No need to cry because people don't like what you do.

Sir I think you missed my point...if you (OP) are offended by responses don't offend your detractors with a comment of your own (you can't make a point that is positive then end it with something negative and think that you will not be called out...then bail when you are) ...also, LEGAL means legal not filling your moms, kid, cousins etc. tags...

rick

B Rick, I never bailed, just got tired of the ridiculous comments. What I meant when I called some hunters Jake Holes, is im not referring to meat hunters like yourself and didn't direct it too but a certain few, like the ones that I literally had to cut wire off of one of H braces so I could remove their feeder from throwing corn onto my side of our High fence, and this also happened on the low fence place I hunt in Glen Rose, will post pics this weekend so you can see the Jake Holes im referring too. Now I truly understand some hunters hunt just for meat and that's it, I have zero problem with that, feed your families that's what god intended these animals for. But as for bailing, I never left for that reason that u assume. Just tired of listening to closed minded comments from certain ppl that no zero about what we do.

Basis of my assumption sir...my friend the buck was truly outstanding...slob hunters sometimes hunt both sides of the fence (LF/HF/NF) and we as law abiding hunters are often tagged with the stigma...my point is only...hunt lawfully and humanely...appreciate the pride that 313 1/8" brings for the trophy hunter and the pride that slick head brings for the meat hunter...

rick

^THIS^

Very well said sir...kuddos

I will say this, I've never heard a high fence hunter bash a low fence guy, its only the other way around.

I know your post was written jokingly but there is a lot of truth to your words.

this whole "this deer is better because I killed it on lowfence/public land/grandmas house, etc" is a pass off to make a person feel better or justified by what they killed compared to their peers.

It's an awesome deer. Only complaint I have with it is that I don't have the money to do it myself.

I have only hunted in a HF one time for a week. That was probably the most difficult hunt I have ever been on. Ended up killing a nubbin buck thinking it was a doe for the entire week. If I had killed one while on that hunt like the one pictured here I would have been just as thrilled as if it were a LF place.

Most people that see ear tags assume it's a tame deer that runs to a feed bucket when you shake it. And sometimes that is the case also. Who cares? If you eat Beef all you are doing is paying a hit-man to kill it for you with a bolt gun. If it's legal and makes you happy then go for it and anybody that doesn't like it can pound sand.

Boy! That escalated quickly!

We need to understand one important thing here. We are hunters. WE are HUMAN! Some times buck fever gets the best out of people. If you have never gotten it, then you shouldn’t be hunting. WE are stewards of the land. High Fence or Low Fence, it doesn’t make a difference. A trophy may mean one thing to me and something else to another. That doesn’t make it wrong. Yes, the way we get big deer are Age, Genetics and Nutrition. High Fence improves your success rate exponentially with this. Low Fence hunters have to work a little harder at it.

High Fence Hunters, have the ability to let a deer walk and get some age on them. Low Fence hunters, trying to do the right thing, ME, have to worry about another hunter taking the deer that you let walk. That’s part of hunting. A TROPHY is in the eye of the beholder. If I do the ethical thing and let a deer walk and another hunter takes the deer because it’s the biggest thing he’s ever seen and is a true trophy to him. Sure, I’ll be a little upset on one hand but super excited for the lucky hunter on the other. You never know how hard that person worked for his trophy.

All hunters have to start somewhere. You don’t become an accomplished hunter the first time you go on a hunting trip. It takes years of dedication and self restraint.

Instead of getting down of someone who hunts a High Fence ranch, we should be embracing the sport we all love.

We will never see eye to eye with every one, but as hunters we all share the same passion. High Fence or Low Fence doesn’t define who you are as a hunter or a sportsman. Several people hunt High Fence ranches and never even see the deer they’re chasing. Low Fence hunters are the same way.

We need to quit the bickering and slamming of people the share our passion. Save it for the PETA tree huggers who are trying to take our rights to hunt away. If we’re divided, then they have a better chance. Stay united and they will never win.

Just my Opinion. I may get slammed for it, but I don’t give a damn….

but its not just hf vs. lf that gets people going, go look at a college football forum, or street racing forum where they argue about naturally aspirated vs. nitrous vs. turbo-charged, or a 4x4 forum where they argue about freaking tires...its human nature.

watworm2. Whereabouts do you hunt near Glen Rose? I may be that 'other jakehole'

Still think its shopped.

I'm with you...I gave up giving a damn before I even joined the forum I read posts for around a year or so before joining, and discovered that if someone shoots the biggest deer they've ever had a chance at, there will probably be someone who ridicules them for shooting it for whatever reason. If someone shoots a 300" deer, THERE WILL BE someone who ridicules them! lol

I don't know what yalls problem is, I never argue

Insanely huge deer, regardless of where it came from!

I will tell you what bothers me the most of all this. Grown men acting like young teenagers on a public forum where we are suppose to be setting an example and praising each other wether you hunt HF or LF. And who on here has any right other than freedom of speech to tell anyone that if you haven't ever tracked a deer then you shouldn't be hunting, if you haven't ever gotten buck fever then you shouldn't be hunting, blah, blah, blah... We are here to educate, cooperate, share our experiences and pass hunting on responsibly to the next generation of hunters. It is pretty bad when my daughters sometimes read articles along with me to learn from others, but with all the worthless name calling and such I found it disturbing to hear a 16 & 17 year old say this; Seems a lot of these grown ups are acting like children. Take it for what it is worth to you, but the OP was wrong as were others for acting like 2 year olds and resorting to meaningless name calling and badgering. And I will not apologize for anything I have said because the truth is what really hurts.

So to the OP. A very nice buck sir regardless of HF or LF. And I can only hope and dream of harvesting such an animal in my time. And to everyone including the OP, can we not clean up these posts and act like mature and responsible men and women and stop with all the badgering and such? I wish everyone a productive season and hopefully we can all get a Youth out in the woods to share hunting with them so as they may pass it on to their children some day. Thanks.

^^^^^^Exactly!!!

Well said!!!

LOL, WTF!?! You need to run that by me again sometime.

Stay classy and respect others!

If you've made it to this forum - and are willing to go the extra mile to actually post something - it's likely because we share a similar passion for hunting and the outdoors.

The beauty of a forum like this is to be able to express your opinion on a subject and the ability for a fellow hunter/huntress to agree or disagree on your views. Just do it with class. I agree to disagree all the time with my wife and she is the woman I'll be married to for the rest of my life. Regardless, I RESPECT the difference of opinion.

Kuddos to anyone who takes the time to read this as I respect your passion for this wonderful sport that we have the freedom to participate in.

Just keep it classy guys and gals and respect the opinion of any fellow hunter/huntress that wants to express their opinion on a particular topic. The last thing we need to be is divided.

Good luck and happy hunting to all this season!

Two elk down this week so far... Fields should be prime

220 might not be two far of stretch

I don't want to bug Taylor, I wish he would post updates on THF and Facebook now and then. Only thing I've heard is from you. Taylor just said be there Friday and I will.