Ford ECO Boost, Twin Turbo, rattle at start up

What is this rattle, anyone know? It's only as start up, and seems to be getting worse. No performance issues. I did get a check engine light, put the hand held diagnostic on it and got P0012, Intake Camshaft Position Timing Over Retarded (Bank1). The light went off, after I ran the diagnostic.

I'm no mechanic, and dealerships seem to know it so I'd like to at least sound like I know what I'm talking about if I have to take it in.

2018, 64,000 miles, 3.5L Twin Turbo.

It’s either the turbo wastegate (unlikely) or more likely the cam phasers. Very well know issue, look on YouTube to see if you can match the sound.

It’s not related to the engine being “cold”, but rather a lack of lubrication during that initial start after sitting for awhile. The dealerships normally feign ignorance or blame it on the wastegate. They’ll keep it overnight to diagnose. Take video of it to show them.

It’s a $3,500 fix if not under warranty. And it’s not a “fix”, no upgraded parts, they just replace with new, faulty cam phasers.

I’ve dealt with it 2x personally, and have 3 buddies have the same issues.

Wow, not cool. You've paid, twice $3500.00, or was it warrantied?

That’s my understanding as well. Some suggest its from lack of regular oil changes. I would think that if you stay within the computers recommendations it shouldn’t be an issue. I think the computer will go 8-9000 miles for suggested oil life. Most people change theirs at 5000 miles. It’s also been said the rattling timing on start up doesn’t hurt anything, it’s just an annoyance.

I’m not saying any of this is facts, just common opinion. I hope mine don’t start that crap.

Mine were under warranty. Another buddy had his fail at ~30K then again at -58K miles.

If left unchecked you will grenade the engine...baffles me that the service departments allow you to drive away once diagnosed. And the repair timeframe is a total crapshoot....I waited for 4 months, buddy got his done in a day. So really depends on the dealer.

I love the concept/power of the engine, but after being burned on 3 of them, will no longer own one.

Talked to the dealership, they tell me to NOT bring it until the light comes back on. They want to be sure to have the code active, and feel like they may not be able to get a good reading since I cleared it.

Are you under extended warranty? If not I’d find a reputable local shop.

No, never bought an extended warranty. Sounds like a good idea now, but if I had bought extended warranties, I'd be about 20K in the hole.

Only one logical path now....time to upgrade! That’s my default answer when a vehicle has issues. Life’s too short to deal with a shoddy truck.


Good luck with it.

Cam phasers, google it. Junk ford motors are notorious for it, ecoboost and the 24v 4.6L & 5.4L. Problem is there is no revision for them. Replace with the same parts that take a dump later. Can we welded and a programmer added to kill the CEL is the only real fix to ensure it wont happen again. Let it go long enough and it will take your cam with it.

Haha, I just read DoveMurderer posts, looks like he already knows.

https://ricksfreeautorepairadvice.com/ford-3-5-ecoboost-engine-problems/

On another note, we just took my bosses truck to Grand Prairie Ford to get his done under warranty 28k miles, 5 star ford said June. Our controller had hers go out on a 2014 expedition 5.4L 2 months and it took the cam with it $3800.

My code was P0012. I've been paying real close attention to it all day. It's never rattled while running or even at idle. Only on a start after it has sat for a while. Now that I think about it, I felt an engine bump when I accelerated this morning and then noticed the light on. They may have got ouf of sync, and corrected. It runs great, no issues at all for now. We'll see.

I'd put money that it's the cam phasers. I also have a 2018 with the 3.5 Mine started doing it at 30,000 miles. Warranty covered it. They are a big enough problem that the Ford technician knew what the problem was by me explaining it before he ever even heard it start up.

I'm over the warranty by 5k miles. Since I reset the code, and the check engine light went out 3 days ago it has ran great and the light hasn't come back on.

My neighbors 2019 did the same thing. Cam phasers were replaced, right at 90,000 miles. I’ve had (2) 3.5 ecoboosts that went 100,000 miles each no issues when traded. I use motorcraft oil and filters he doesn’t.

Pure speculation but I wonder if the start stop function where it turns the engine off at red lights and stop signes etc has anything to do with it.

I don’t know about the timing chain, but it wears me out.

I doubt it helps, but this problem has existed since before the start/stop crap. Someone sells an inline plug that disables it without effecting anything else. I haven’t decided if I want to do it or not. It’s cheap but you have to take some panels out of the dash. It doesn’t rattle yet, so I’m on the fence.

wp I put a tuner on my 2017 ecoboost that would defeat that feature. Never had to push that button.

Did you change any other parameters in the tuning and what does it do to the warranty? I have the 3.5 ecoboost in my sho, it is tuned and strung out pretty tight with aftermarket parts. No warranty at 18,000 miles. I don’t want to do that with this truck. Is there any benefit to tuning the 100% stock motor?

Yes a little more HP. PM me your addy and I will mail you the one I have, should work on yours. I bought a 2021 F-150 Diesel so no need for it.

After reading about all the rattle at start up and cam phaser problems i started listening to some im around often. Both owned by the same family, one is a 2016 with a good bit over 100k miles and it sounds normal. Same person same oil same oil change interval the other is a 2020 with much fewer miles has the rattle at start up.

Let's talk about this itty bitty poka dotted bikini of a diesel. What's your driving range per tank and how under powered is it? Or is not.

I'm trying hard to down grade after 23 years to a 1/2 ton

IF you like the skinny pedal on the right on your 6.7 you will be disappointed with the ford 3.0 powerstroke.

I can’t expect it to beat my 6.7. I’ve passed weight and measure guys hoping they where asleep.

This next chapter of trucks for me will be more about hunting out west and my ranch roads.

I either upgrade suspension on mine or new truck. I’m at 180k so not sure I’m in to taking it to 250k

Lets just say im not a "need for speed" guy when it comes to my vehicles and i think my 1/2 ton diesel is slow. The Chevy is reportedly the fastest of the three and its about on par with my tuned ecodiesel which is also still slow.

I don't know why you are fighting the Raptor so hard...just go stroke the check Bobo...get the Raptor.

I'm not a midget, bed’s 8” to short.

Sleep diagonal or with the tailgate down.

Then I would have to reposition coolers all the time. Going to a half drawer system, then cooler will set down in the bed on the no drawer side. With tail gate down feet will still hang over the drawer system.

It's complicated I know but what I've come up with over last 6 years trying to perfect

I understand, I cant lay down in my RAM short bed either with the gate closed. Seems the short bed is the way they are going.

My buddy is fighting this with Ford right now. They kept putting hem off, every time he came in. Said the diagnostics didn't show anything, but the noise was always there. They kept returning it until it was off warranty. Now they are replacing the left turbo (at his cost!!). Going thru Division Service Rep now, and higher if needed.

Since I got the code and it reset when I hooked up the diagnostic I've had no issues. Drove a couple thousand miles (Colorado and back) and it is running fine.

$20,000 Grand?? How much per warranty?? Heard about the Eco boost Problems and got a (72 month/150,000 mile) Genuine Ford Protect Extended Service Plans (ESP) for my Wifes 2021 Expedition ($100 deductible) for $2300 bucks. .

I would have just traded it in with those issues. I’ve done it more than once.

Not exactly sure, but I know I've never bought one, and never had repairs that would have come close to covering the cost of the warranty. In fact, I can't recall needing a major repair of any kind during the warranty period until this one. The last one I turned down was like $2500.00 and that was a very long time ago, probably turned them down 10-11 times over the last 40 years on new vehicles I bought for myself, wife and kids.

A final update, cam phasers took a dump. $3800.00 with no relief from Ford or Dealership, 8 k out of warranty. Got it fixed, and traded it in same afternoon on a different product. Hate to say it, but done with Ford. On the upside, I found out its a great time to buy new. I negotiated on the new one, then showed up the next day with this one. Interest rates were about 2% lower than three years ago, and they are starving for trade in's due to low inventory. My Ford was super clean, ran great and had clean Carfax.

For those of you who are skeptical of the extended warranties due to cost, shop around. Our last F150 purchase the dealer was wanting $2000 or so for the 100k ESP warranty. I shopped around and found a Ford dealer up north that sold the very same Ford ESP warranty with the LED coverage for around $1100 or so.

As you can imagine ( and already know), the warranties are marked up too.

I have a 2012 that just turned 100k and is having this occasionally on cold startups with no codes thrown.

I watched a YT video where a guy was talking about lack of lubrication initially and gave a "fix" by better priming the system.
I have tried it and haven't heard the rattle on initial startup yet.

1) hold down the accelerator all the way to the floor
2) Start cranking and hold for a 3-4 seconds
3) Let off the accelerator and the engine will start up

So if it’s $3800 to have cam phasers replaced, how much for a new long block assembly?

For you guys with Ford 5.4 3v, 5.0 or ecoboost engines, do some research on oil viscosity. I moved from 5w20 to 5w30 obviously synthetic and change it pretty regularly. The cam phaaer issue is definitely related to lubrication or lack of. Clean regularly changed synthetic 5W30 can help prevent phaser oil starvation.

Also pretty genius idea on priming the top end of the motor the way you described ccoker. Researching that now!

Sorry BOBO jut saw this. 30 gal. tank so getting about 600 mi. per tank. Mileage on computer is showing 23 mpg in mixed driving should get 28 mpg when broke in. As for power not as quick as my 17' 3.5 ecoboost but I'm gonna delete and tune it pretty soon.

I've got a 2012 F150 crew 4x4 with ecoboost and guess I'm lucky. "Knock Wood" I've never experienced this. Snake Oil I tried to PM you. What tuner did you have on your truck?