Good or Bad Guy

Aka, venemous or not??

That is a very emaciated cottonmouth. Venomous. Agkistrodon piscivorous

Yeah, head was arrow headed but was long and narrowish in nature, I attributed it to being a juvenile snake. Was only 2' or so. Before it is asked, he was relocated via a snake gripper without incidence.

Bad guy

I'd have relocated his head with a 12 ga.

I have $20 that says you'd miss.

DQ,

Next time go bang bang. Triangular head and vertical eyes are bad guys.

4W

Ain't no way I'm getting close enough to check eyes.

BAD SNAKE!

Actually it's good snake. Google Diamondback Water Snake. I kill all venomous snakes and let the good guys pass. Good on you for relocating him

That's not a diamondback water snake. And I wouldn't advise anyone to Google the common name of any snake. They're likely to get images of many different snakes. That's why I use the scientific names, so when people copy and paste the name in Google, they get more reliable websites and images. So Google agkistrodon piscivorus, because that's 100% what it is.

[img]https://images.app.goo.gl/R8UTw5BCauaZVc8AA[/img]

Nerodia hombifer

ITRDM, no offense but you're dead wrong. How many "very emaciated" cottonmouths have you encountered? The snake is what I posted, above.

Bulls$%!+.

Are you a herpetologist? We can get one to chime in if you'd like.

NERODIA hombifer!

I'm a 30+ year herpetoculturist. If you know a herpetologist, I probably already know him. So yes, please invite him to chime in.

Pope, from the TFF.

I know Pope. Tell him to come on by.

Trying to contact him on TFF, now. If you know Pope, get him to wade in.

I've gotten 2 replies so far. Still waiting for a few more. I can do this all day.

p.s. if that's a cottonmouth, where are the pits above his eyes and the white eye and jaw liner? You could easily see both at that angle. + a cottonmouth's head is more square triangle vs. elongated triangle, like the snake in the OP.

I'm waiting on Pope.

You should never EVER give anyone snake advice again, Mahfouz. Seriously. You're gonna get somebody hurt.

And I ask again, how many "very emaciated" Cottonmouths have you guys seen? I've seen a good many hundreds from 1 to 4 ' long. Never seen a skinny one.

Guess I'll stick to bass and deer. If Pope confirms that's not a water snake. And I'll certainly apologize if I'm wrong.

Moccasin

This should settle all arguments. Mark Pyle, director of the DFW Herpitological Society.

LInk below is a photo of a Diamondback water snake. Looks like the same snake that the OP posted. I wish we had a photo with the head toward the camera where you could see the eyes or if it had pits

Diamond Back Water Snake

True enough that Cottonmouth's (save for the very young) tend to be quite thick and do not appear to have 'missed any meals', but that does not exclude the possibility that ANY snake might be sick (for many reasons) or have suffered an injury making it difficult/impossible for it to eat. In any case....we shouldn't use body profile alone to identify the species.

There are similarities between the Cottonmouth and Diamondback Water Snake that could make identification difficult under certain circumstances, but the one feature that tells me this is a Cottonmouth is owing to the position the snake is in.

When looking over the top of a Cottonmouth (pretty much directly over it) you can not see it's eyes. Conversely, with the Diamondback Water Snake (and all other Water Snakes I can think of....) you can. The D/B water snake when feeling threatened will often times flatten its head (making it remarkably more triangular shaped) but even so...you can always see it's eyes to some degree.

I can see because of the condition of the snake the OP posted where you might be persuaded it was some type of Water Snake...but I think if you will spend some time looking at different pictures of both Snakes (especially from that angle) it might change your mind.

Nothing wrong with standing firm on an opinion IF you are fully convinced you are right. But do be 'accepting' of other's positions and their reasoning for it.

I am pretty well acquainted with both species and it was a tough call for me at first glance.

Diamondback W/S from roughly the same angle below:

I hate the internet.

Well, if your expert friends say that is a cottonmouth, then I apologize. I was wrong. And don't worry about me identifying snakes ITRDM, no one's gonna get hurt b/c 99.999% of people would have blown/chopped that snake to smithereens.

One other thing, being a herpetoculturist does not make you an expert. I'm 59, been around snakes all my life and kept them as pets for many years in my youth. So that makes us both expert herpetoculturists.

This thread was educational for me - seriously. I'm still learning and have a long way to go.

I appreciate the value of snakes, so the only snakes that I have killed were Copperheads that were too close to the house - when I lived on acreage near Bastrop.

Now we live lakefront and I have to ID them on a regular basis. So far, I've seen lots of Diamond Back Water snakes and only one Cottonmouth. None of them showed the least bit of interest in hanging around when they spotted me.

Marc

Nice apology, bro. I don't claim to be an expert, but like I said before, I know what I'm talking about. When I need a second opinion, I ask the experts.

Here's what I learned. Snakes are hard to identify. So them all and let allah sort them out.

What I've learned is regardless of the type of snake that is...it sounds like Fouz and dudewho'snameisWAYtolong both have herpes....who knew

Best post of the day.

Water Snake (aqua serpent)

I learned a lot with this thread, but not about snakes.

Yes, well then you'd agree NONE can conclusively I.D. the snake without a clear picture from a different angle. Even the 'experts' IF they are being intellectually honest would concede that.

What has been established is one thing and one thing only: Based on what 'can' be seen and the experience of 'experts' in the field, the snake is most LIKELY a cottonmouth.

But definitely some personality traits ID'd

The dark parts bordered in white with a yellowish color in between along the snakes sides were what made it conclusively a cotton mouth for me....I’ve seen that pattern on every one no matter how light or dark colored, large or small the snake was....

I agree. The pattern, the ocular ridges, head scale pattern all are 100% cottonmouth. I'm 100% certain about it. Zero chance for error.

I don't know man, it could be a Diamondback Water Snake.

ARE YOU A HERPIE-TOLOGIST?

I'm done with snake IDs on the forum. I've spent too many years doing actual research of the snakes of Texas to argue with rednecks, truck drivers, and arrogant a-hole prick millionaire dipsh$h!+s around here. If anyone needs a reliable reptile or amphibian ID, you can send me a PM. If I don't know, I can assure you, I know the people to ask.

Like I alluded to in an earlier post, we may or may not have positively ID'd the snake, but we sure learned something about a few of the personalities here.


Wow.

We did positively ID the snake. Some of the most respected herpetologists in Texas ID'd the snake. I don't know what else to tell you, except learn more.. You're one of the a-holes I was talking about. WOW!

Somebody call JP and ask him if we can get a middle finger emoji.