From Boone and Crocket

Frankenstein's monster deer.....I'd rather see a LF typical 12 pt.

or a good 8

It's pretty impressive when you consider the fact that it only takes roughly 6 months for bucks to grow antlers.

This crap is getting out of hand.

I'm with snake wrangler and colt 45. Guys that feel the need for a deer like that have lost sight of why they started hunting in the first place.

I dropped off a mainframe 10 I shot this year to the processor. Next to my buck lay a high fenced freak. I commented that my buck was nothing by comparison. Someone responded, "No, yours is something special while that buck is artificial, fake, and phony, and $20,000 will get you one just like it."

I really don't understand the interest in shooting genetically manipulated, formula fed, pen raised, freaks of nature. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

It dang sure ain't for me.

I also don't understand why others want to do it when the vast majority of the world doesn't condone it. Who are you impressing?

Hey, if that what floats your boat, by all means. I just don't understand it. Don't ever expect me to.

I agree.

Not much different than:

is that from the national forest?

Not for me but that is a massive rack.

Not from BC, they don't recognize HF deer. It is SCI who does because their members insisted these need a record book.
It only thing it means when a guy says he shot an SCI book deer is that he is rich as hail and bought and grew a pet.
Then shot it.

SCI has separate categories for HF and or Estate.

B&C has their own club and their own rules. Who are they to need an "explanation" from anyone who doesn't care to join their club?

NOTHING is getting out of hand. If you don't want to kill a deer like that... Then don't!

Bitching about what someone else chooses to do with their time and money makes you sound like a frumpy old mother hen.

Is that REALLY what you want to be????

What part is considered the "main frame"?

I concur....

for the record it was really hard to agree with you though

He looks real purdy.

For the record, when folks post photos and big signs declaring "world records", blah, blah - comment is sure to follow. Circumstances of the "hunt" is fair game. If you can't accept that, don't put it out there.

Questions, comment, and/or observations about something placed in the public domain ain't "bitching". If you're proud of it and think it's all hunky dory, why be defensive about the circumstances? Same for those that get all defensive for others.

The fact that folks want others to just ooh, aah, and ask no questions/brook no comment about the circumstances belies their insecurity about those very circumstances.

In other words, if you're proud, be proud of the entire hunt, not just the size of the deer. Own it all. Or don't publicize it.

People never say "Yes he was taken on a HF hunt in one afternoon that I paid 20K for, so what? I'm still very proud of him. It's all the same." Instead, they get all butthurt and defensive when asked about the hunt. It's all very telling.

So you are saying don't post anything if you think someone is going to be a jack wagon about it? And if someone is going to actually be a jack wagon about it...just deal with it. Noted for future

If someone is a jackwagon, just call them a jackwagon and move on. That's what secure people do.

It's the being all defensive that tells the tale. They are defensive because they are insecure. I have yet to see one HF photo poster own the hunt. They just ask for all questions/comment about anything but oohs/ahhs or size to stop. If the hunt could stand on its own merits, that wouldn't need to happen.

I have defended against asinine comments about my hunts with no issue. No help needed or asked for. Actually, most of the time no defense was necessary because the jackwagon nature of the unknowledgable comments was apparent on its face.

/\/\/\. Yup. /\/\/\

That has nothing whatsoever to do with what B&C did. They aren't questioning how a hunt was conducted. They are placing themselves in the position of needing an explanation as to why someone would breed deer to meet a market request. Go to their Facebook page and read their comments.

They have become grousing hens about it because if it doesn't meet their club criteria. And they "need an explanation" for why others choose to do things outside the boundaries they feel comfortable trying to impose on others.

For the record, I'm more comfortable with that.

B&C is a voluntary private club with their own standards. They have every right to take whatever positions on anything hunting/conservation related they wish. America, First Amendment, all that jazz. You have every right to disagree with their positions and not join their club.

I don't get some of y'all's panties being in such a wad over that. Just don't join their club and have your opposite views. Why are their views considered bitching and your opposite views not considered bitching? Answer: because you're looking at it like a 2 year old in a high chair.

Back to the "jackwagon" discussion:

If someone asks a poster "HF or LF?" - offense is immediately taken and the righteous indignation starts. Just over that simple question? If it's not a big deal, why the offense? Why is asking that one simple question considered verboten and being a "jackwagon"? Why not just own it and move on?

The answer is clear: Because the ones who see it as offensive are ashamed of the fact that it was taken behind a HF.

In the end, it's all sausage!

Not my cup of tea.

But for those that enjoy this type of buck, congrats on your enjoyable hunt.

For those that can't resist criticizing a photo posted of a successful hunt of this nature, I would say a man that's comfortable in his own skin can easily say congrats or simply not say or ask anything to the hunter.

A man who feels the need to criticize I have no seat for around my campfire.

Personally what I don't like is the manipulation of genetics and who knows what else to get an animal to look like that. I have a HF and I raise Ibex but there are also WT in it that will never be anything but what is normal for this area. I believe there are many WT breeders that see the writing on the wall. Be it from the CWD scare or competition or what is now happening with the Bucks not even looking like WT Bucks and the market for them drying up. I have heard of and personally been in contact with WT breeders that are looking for alternatives to utilize the facilities they have in place. Who knows what the future will be for WT breeders but I would think it is not real bright.

Just living under a high fence doesn't produce deer like that anymore than lifting weights twice a week will turn you into a Schwarzenegger.

I agree and am seeing that also. IDK if it's just not cool anymore because attitudes are changing, increased pressure because of CWD, etc. opposition, or if the market is just drying up because everyone who wants a Frankendeer already has one (or ten). Probably a combination of all three.

Even at the big shows like DSC, TTHA, and SCI the number of breeders with booths has decreased drastically over the past few years. They used to be half the shows.

Toured a deer breeder facility recently, it was a really fun interesting trip. Its not something I am interested in but none the less many are and it was still fun for me.

To me HF and LF are different animals. When people post pictures and don't say I like to ask but its usually not well received. I don't think any more/less of the deer, I just want to know.

In the end what drives things like that deer and the jacked up truck in my opinion can be summed up in a few simple words..."Mine's bigger than yours is"

"B&C is a voluntary private club with their own standards. They have every right to take whatever positions on anything hunting/conservation related they wish. America, First Amendment, all that jazz. You have every right to disagree with their positions and not join their club.

I don't get some of y'all's panties being in such a wad over that. Just don't join their club and have your opposite views. Why are their views considered bitching and your opposite views not considered bitching? Answer: because you're looking at it like a 2 year old in a high chair. "

A 2 yr old in a high chair? So much for your holier than thou "I never insult first" BS.

And, when have you ever seen TDA, TGR, SCI post a pic of a mainframe 185" 12 point with a note to the side that you "want an explanation for why this animal qualifies for one club but not the others "?

You won't see that from those "clubs" because they don't feel the need to denigrate others choices to feel better about their own.

I believe your 2 yr old in a high chair analogy is bassakwards.

I have asked HF or LF before because one is artificial and fabricated and the other is natural and wild. A parallel would be a nice 5 pound brown trout. Was it caught in a fishing tank on the Cabelas parking lot or from a Colorado stream? Makes all the difference in the world.

I can agree with most of what both of you are saying. It's when you follow "I don't like it" with a denigration of those who have different views than you, where we part ways.

I love the free market. As you've both noted, the market is changing. I prefer to let it work, and not be judgmental.

To you it does. But to another guy it might not. Why do you think you get to define what he enjoys? Bck bck bck...

Bottom line is we are all entitled to our opinions.

The missed/unaddressed point is why just asking about the story of the hunt is such an offense to many who take such animals, when most who share their deer are not only willing, but happy to tell the story of their hunt.

The reason is obvious.

Really good food plot?

The question is kinda silly really.

The explanation is some guys simply want a huge deer and don't care how they get it.

I don't believe I denigrated anyone after "I don't like it".

Just not my cup of tea.

Duly noted jackwagon...moving along.....

So, what is the "reasonable and rational explanation" for a deer like that?

Some people are willing to pay for it? (Free market capitalism)

Desire to see what "might be" with careful genetic modification? (Scientific effort and discovery)

A loss of traditional values and ethics? (Free range and fair chase)

It more telling when someone states it was a HF hunt and you go on to attack their hunt, then tell others they they shouldn't apologize to the OP because that what the OP gets for going on a HF hunt, and stating his experiences of it. But that's what you do discredit others hunts and experiences, ironically then you cry when someone questions or makes parallels to your hunts. If it's not a hunt then you chastise their legal weapon choice.

You are by far the most unqualified to chastise on this board simply in experience and in ability to receive and handle similar comments

More importantly, it's what drives the B&C and others to denigrate people who choose to follow a different set of rules. The fact that B&C's rules prevent them from getting as "big" is why it's so important for them to attempt to invalidate others.

This is dancing all around denigration, but no Don, you're not in the habit of denigrating.

A reasonable and rational explanation is that someone wants to do it. Pure and simple.

Fair chase? Do you use weapons? That ain't "fair".

Ethics? I'm a natural predator. My ethics are mine your ethics are yours. You can't impose your ethics on me. More importantly:
Why do you feel the need to force your view of "ethics and fair chase" on others??

That'll leave a mark.

I do not ask questions much less disparage a photo or other thread actually related to a specific hunt/animal. I also have never started a HF thread. Which is more than can be said for some.

No mark. Just baseless ranting because I have a different view and some are sensitive at having been backed into corners they have painted themselves in when the subject is discussed.

You are what you eat.

Actually, that's the in between. In the end it's a turd. Just like the jack wagons who have to ask if a deer is HF or LF.

Just because you pissed on TTechcolleyvilles hunt recap enough to get it moved to the Mod section doesn't mean it didn't happen, also just because the WOS list has been refreshed since then doesn't mean you didn't get banned for it also.

Fact you still take zero ACCOUNTABILITY for it and LIE about it shows your true character.

It is more denigrating to the Buck pictured. But in reality it is not his fault that he became what is pictured. He was made this way by someone. That someone did it to make a living or most likely as a hobby.But that is what is great about this Country. And like all Animal endeavors if you get in it at the right time and while the market is hot you come out good. But if you get in at the wrong time or stay too long you loose. And seeing and hearing of those in the business bailing it probably is not a very good time to get in it.

x2

Lol I'll not jump into all that revisionist history. You may be allowed to refer to such matters and put your "spin" on same. But I am not.

Lol what a joke still no accountability. You would think a grown man would accept responsibility instead of spinning it with a lie.

Same story as always with you.

Not nearly as pretty as a nice 8 or 10 pointer.

Not to change the subject as I do enjoy this light hearted banter. But what does that buck look like if thrown out in a pasture for a couple of years without all the babying?

Looks like they did a good job growing that piece of livestock. Not for me though.

He may of been in pasture, may of never been hunted, may lived in a 2 acre HF pasture and died of Natural causes, He may still be alive and those are just sheds.

Just a picture of a mount. Not my kind of adventure or deer, but that's a ton of antler for sure

As wide as he is bet wasn't easy for him to eat out of a ported feeder with legs.

I dont know if this link will work but that buck was raised and killed on a place in Ohio. I'm not going to get in to the HF/LF argument but shooting a buck like that is never going to happen for me anyway. I'll just continue trying to get a decent buck off our place.

http://whackstarhunters.com/sci-world-record-whitetail-raises-eyebrows/

Are you sure the meat is edible?

For sure!!! They don't have Double Down up north

The New SCI World Record Non-Typical Whitetail was on display at their convention this past week and let us just say it turned a few heads. The tale of the tape is this 671 2/8 inches and was grown and harvested at Dakota Outfitters in Quaker City, Ohio.



What would I do if that deer walked onto my 3 acre low fenced food plot

Chootem and be tickled pink about it

Would I pay money to go shootem, no but could care less if someone else did.

They show to have 3 square miles (1920 acres), if I had lots of money I might just have to go and get me a 600 inch bull elk.
Some of their smaller deer look really nice.
To each their own.

Sort of like dating a girl with a big chest. Up to a point you can get excited, but after that it becomes grotesque and then just downright disgusting.

That buck is simply deformed...and from MY perspective is worth less than the basket rack 7pt I have on the wall!

I support the right for people breed/hunt the way they want but it's still ok to not give a rat about it which I don't. I actually feel for him having to carry that much bone on his head.

What do you expect? He still doesn't admit that B&C (and he), denigrate others for having different preferences. Grousing mother hens who can't accept an alternative opinion.

[quote=Stub]The New SCI World Record Non-Typical Whitetail was on display at their convention this past week and let us just say it turned a few heads. The tale of the tape is this 671 2/8 inches and was grown and harvested at Dakota Outfitters in Quaker City, Ohio.



What would I do if that deer walked onto my 3 acre low fenced food plot

Chootem and be tickled pink about it

Would I pay money to go shootem, no but could care less if someone else did. [/quote]

Perfect.

Beast

To each his own, but I don't get it.

I'd much rather spend time hunting free-range wildlife and be proud to kill a fully mature deer that is natural for my area (including a 130 class 8-10 pt hill country deer).

Helping the herd a little with planting or supplemental feeding is one thing. But somewhere you cross the line between wildlife and livestock.

Ahhh. So you are the one who determines where the line is. Nice to know. Why don't you do everyone a favor and just tell us where our individual lines are.

Total cheap shot.

He says "To each his own", "I'd much rather", etc. It's his opinion as to what he prefers. He can dang sure determine his own lines. YOU'RE the one trying to act like someone is not even entitled to have an opinion just because it causes you butthurt.

He must have had a very strong neck....

Do you have a third party you trust? If so, you really should let them proofread your posts before hitting submit.

It's obvious to the discriminating reader that I was responding to his last statement where he specifically implied that it was ok to supplementally feed, but at some point beyond that we crossed a line. Since he decided there was a line, and he left it in arbitrary limbo, I believe I'm justified in asking him to point said line out to me.

You know, to further my education about what is and isn't allowed by those who would prescribe my hunting experience.

Hey, you deciders, y'all got any credentials?? I'd like to see 'em.

Your attempted "crawfishes" are as amusing as they are weak.

I can just see you reading that post over and over all day to try and find even a sliver of an argument to wriggle through (like trying to somehow morph his last sentence into something other than his opinion by making up some BS "implication").

He's the one who determines his own line and he was explaining, albeit loosely, where it is.. It's different for each one of us.. No where did I see him try to force that belief on you so let the man have his opinion, even if it differs from yours & save the smarmy sarcasm for the next worn out HF/LF debate..

I wonder if whoever paid to shoot that also wears shoe lifts?

Been out feeding monsters all day. Even in my "retirement" I work circles around a handful of attorneys. And you are trumpian full of yourself if you think I spend more than a few seconds deciding how to spank you on here.

Sorry, but when one states that supplemental feeding is ok and then points out that beyond that "you cross a line" he is in fact imposing his opinion on others.

Condensed his statement is: "I don't want to impose my will on others, but if you do more than what I stated I think you cross a line".

So, even though he prefaced with the disclaimer, he continued to re-instate it.

And my point was exactly yours, we each draw our own lines.

And back on topic, just remember, if you find yourself siding with B&C on this issue, the Saturday night live church lady best describes your position.

Lol even in your own trying to twist it around in your own words even you still admit he is just saying what he thinks. It ain't gettin' any better for you.

Obviously no one ever taught you that when you find yourself in a hole to just quit digging.

Lord have mercy. Even a third grader knows everything on a thread like this is an opinion.

Didn't realize I was speaking to a perpetual second grader...

Does B&C allow hunting with a 223?

Not behind a high fence...

^^^^^^^^^^^YUP^^^^^^^^^^^^

This. The second part goes fir both of yas.

I clearly didn't "tell you where your individual line is."

I said "to each his own" and "somewhere."

For me, the line is probably somewhere this side of that deer. If you think raising a deer like a Kobe beef cow and shooting it is fun, more power to ya. No skin off my back. I don't care what other people do for fun. But I know what I find interesting and what I don't find interesting..

As to your totally out of line response, I'm not sure whether you're just real sensitive or a true dumbass. Probably both. But I suppose it doesn't matter.

Real sensitive is my bet.

No, you didn't tell us where our lines are. But you seemed certain that you had it located somewhere between a food plot/supplemental feed, and that deer. Since you were so certain, why would you consider it "out of line" for me to ask you to be more specific? Since you decided what range it was at.

Maybe you're a tad sensitive? I won't call you a dumbass.

I indicated where the line was, vaguely, for me.

You then indicated I'd held myself out as the arbiter of what everyone else should and should not do.

You've now said you were just asking me to be more specific.

That's not even an honest description of the dialogue. Have a nice day.

And the plot thickens

I wrote a few posts previous that therancher was real sensitive. I must edit to BIGTIME sensitive.

Reading the rants and raves of HF hunters is just entertainment to get us through the many months until fall.

Just curious if the group feels the same way about 'trophy' bass ponds? Does using these same artificial growth methods take away from the sport of fishing?




World Record Bass

Almost all bass in a Texas are in artificial lakes. Every so often someone will post how they only fish naturally raised fish in Choke Canyon or Amistad. I have to laugh when those lakes are artificial and stocked by the 100,000s yearly. And then I wonder if the size of the lake (high bank) matters?

Everything is confined in some way. The HF purest try to make it seem that maybe animals can fly like Ducks and no one has any control of their movements. But it makes them feel good and it gives me great pleasure hearing of their ignorance.

I think it's awesome! God and I were discussing this tonight over cocktails. He specifically stated that He gave a brain to man so that man could improve on what he was given.

We toasted that.