Prediction - New World Record?

This year has been unusually cool and consistently received steady rainfall through the spring and most of the summer in South Texas.

Plenty of water and great range conditions are widespread.

There are so many ranches that have been doing really exceptional management through some tough years.

So, I'll go out on a limb and predict there is potential for a new record whitetail to come out of South Texas this year.

meh

To me records now mean squat. Too much crap going on legal or otherwise.

It’s possible for sure. Don’t rule out Oklahoma or Kansas either. Texas should be a great year for sure.

I think a world record typical might be doable in south Texas. A world record non-typical might be a stretch though.

That typical on TLK's old lease would be a challenger for the typical record this year if he stayed a clean 12 this year and added just a few more inches. That deer was almost a clone of the Hanson buck last year. I can only imagine what he might look like this year if he improved any.

Too many folks fiddling with selective deer breeding to make records mean much any more.

Not on true LF ranches - I will know about the one I posted from last season so if and when I hear about him trust me I will post it here - truthfully he probably should have been shot last year - he was 200 plus typical - stay tuned

There is so much protein feeding and food plots anymore that a record buck is indeed possible.

I’m with you, same with sports. Too many ways to cheat

Yep

If it does not happen this year....then it will happen very soon. To many people are managing deer now all over the US for it not to happen. They are allowing the right bucks to age and reach their genetic potential. What helps is that there are some pockets around Texas that have good clean typical genetics. The rainfall this year was tremendous in some areas all over the state. It is going to take the perfect scenario for it to happen though...right deer born from the right genetics...born in the right year...the right age....the right rainfall/habitat post rut to end of antler growth. With lot of ranches feeding post rut, that allows bucks to recoop quickly. Throw in very timely rains and above average rains in the month of March and anything can happen. There were 2 typical bucks killed last year in South Texas that netted right over 190. Last year showed the potential of what can happen in South Texas. I also think there will be some tremendous bucks taken in areas not known for having those type of bucks killed.

I like that the possibility for a new world record is possible. I find it odd that if it happens, it really doesn't matter anymore. I wonder if it's because everything is out there on the internet now and not limited to what magazine you subscribed to? or if it's because so many people have been caught lying and cheating to get into the record books? or if the world is in such bad shape right now that we're just too stressed out trying to make sure we're not affected too badly by the next bad decision to come out of DC?

If it happens, I look forward to seeing pictures and reading the story. But I somehow doubt that it will make headlines or be as exciting as it was a decade ago.

Jeff you see something while out chasing jaguarundi’s?

Bobo,

no specific animal, but seeing exceptional range conditions. All animals are looking healthy including lots of big deer.

It should be a hell of a year.

What makes a person think it will come from Texas?

Most likely will come from the Midwest or Canada

So supplemental feed and food plots are cheating?

No but look around you. Folks are breeding deer to look like they think or want a deer to look like. Folks are bringing deer to areas that never had deer of that caliber before. Folks are penning deer and feeding 24-7-365 then releasing them to be hunted. You call that management and supplemental feeding? I don't.

Wait a second........correct me if I am wrong but dont you raise exotics of some kind? Ibex??? Pretty sure Ibex aint exactly native to Texas.

JCB - drop the mike!

don k - of course there are folks breeding deer and releasing them - but there are plenty of LF ranches that introduce no genetics and still have awesome deer - I know first hand

Don,

my comments related to native deer, not artificially breed put and take operations.

It is apples to oranges comparing our native whitetail to that of an exotic that is already in an unnatural environment.
The basis of the rules of those that want to make standards on scoring whitetail deer is trying to establish as natural an environment as possible. You cannot possibly compare them to exotics.

If I shot a wr typical I dont know if I would want anybody to know about it. There will be so many people making accusations, flat out lies, and demanding information from the hunter and ranch that is none of their damn business. Just because I shot a huge buck, doesnt mean I owe any of those people a flipping thing much less an explanation or info about the ranch......but if one comes from south Texas, you can just imagine what would happen and be said around the country.

I did see the skull of a monster 10 point that was killed last year in Maverick county that netted 190", truly a beautiful buck. I had a typical that was a 7x7 and netted 175" hanging next to him and they simply where not the same class of animal.

People are releasing raised deer into the wild and not talking about it. I know of 2 people that have done it in the last 3 years so I’m with the others, record books are garbage anymore but I’ll still smoke a 200”r if it walks by but not tell a soul about it. Anyone talking about killing a giant on low fenced property is either an idiot or simply a fame seeker.

I’m with you, same with sports. Too many ways to cheat [/quote]


So supplemental feed and food plots are cheating?[/quote]
No but look around you. Folks are breeding deer to look like they think or want a deer to look like. Folks are bringing deer to areas that never had deer of that caliber before. Folks are penning deer and feeding 24-7-365 then releasing them to be hunted. You call that management and supplemental feeding? I don't.[/quote]

Don,

my comments related to native deer, not artificially breed put and take operations.
[/quote]
But how do you really know if it was not an artificially breed deer? You don't.

The LF release is extremely rare, and not that hard to prove(unless you had decades of DMP). DNA is DNA.

with that said I completely agree on the last part

BOBO I’m not up to speed on the DNA game, do they check that these days? The 2 guys I’m referring to release 2 mature bucks every year in a certain area and 4 have been killed that we’re absolute giants but the hunters kept the kills pretty quiet but one of them was all over everything and every magazine since he roamed a long ways away to be killed by someone that didn’t know what he killed. They have definitely upped the genetics in this certain area though with lots of non typicals being killed now after 9 years of this going on. One day a new state record non typical record will probably come from this area between these toads and the Oklahoma freak genetics inner mingling together along the Red River.

Call it cheating or not but released breeders into the wild to breed doe’s happen way more than most think Im betting. These guys I know for a fact do it being I’ve watched it happen so I know this can’t be a localized deal going on.

It's easy to pull DNA.

Native genetics wipe out/suppress released pretty quick. Most States it's illegal and even on HF there are time frame restrictions.

Essentially it's not a very practical or efficient ROI.


Now Mexico, That's a different deal a lot of those big ranches do LF DMP releases but they do not hide it, kind of hard

I don’t know any folks releasing pen raised deer on low fenced properties. It wouldn’t help anything anyway unless the area had a low deer population to begin with. Pen raised deer don’t do well when introduced to pasture born bucks.

That said, the TPWD has moved deer all over the state since the 1930’s. Majority of the state didn’t have any appreciable deer populations and they got deer from the king ranch, Missouri, Louisiana and other areas to stock it.

And in any case, the Hansen buck has stood since 1993 and the Missouri Monarch since 1981, so if all this alleged “cheating” and genetic manipulation that y’all are claiming was really taking place, the records would have been broken 2-3 times by now at least.

this whole thread is proof deer hunting is not what it used to be. Too many worried about getting rich by RAISING huge deer. They are barley wild. Inbreeding

who in their right mind would pay $30,000 + just to shoot a giant deer. Corporate people who could really care less

YES to answer the OP's question. There will be a world record from Texas or Saskatchewan . If its Texas, it will be inbred or by illegal means

This thread is proof that few people on here know anything at all about deer breeding....

Yelp, that was point I was trying to make. Theory and pactice are two different things. Lots of theory

Somes believe tails wag the dog

You have human athletes. They are given certain things to enhance their performance. They break a world record. Did they really break it?

Eggzakly

Athletes are injected with differet types of anabolic steroids / growth hormone to increase muscle mass and athletic performance.



Please, can somebody tell me what people are injecting deer with? I've heard all kinds of crazy accusations in the past few weeks


Out of all the people i know who breed deer ( or did before CWD ) the only thing I ever saw anyone inject into a deer ( other than a sedative reversal drug ) was B12 after it had been darted and put into the trailer for transport.


Most of the comments on here are so far past ridiculous its not even funny.....they are already crying foul over a record that hasn't even been broken yet, but if it is, you can bet your boots that someone cheated or the animal was manipulated in some way.....

I would love to know where you base this information off of?


is barley wild a new IPA?

I never knew inbreeding was a way to engineer genetically superior specimens? If that was the case, the hillbillies from Deliverance would have taken over the world by now.

Don--give a deer testosterone and he stops growing antlers, stop giving and they fall off. Physical performance is muscle, not antlers. Antlers are product of Age, Nutrition and genetics in that order.

To enter a new world record there are going to be a long line of litmus tests including DNA and lie detector. Those that would pay to be able to have display rights aren't going to pay with out doing their due diligence. Nut shell there is no financial upside.

I am not saying deer are injected with anything. Not that many years ago deer were not fed high protein feed with plenty of other nutriants in it. This goes on LF and HF. They have all they want to eat and never have to venture as far from the feeder as it takes to get water. Those deer that made the record book years ago were to me real record holders. They had to fend for themselves and be smart enough to not get shot until they matured to a perfect age. Now a person depending on how deep their pockets are can raise a record book deer given the right genetics. And I have and do know deer breeders and outfitters. There are deer on here at times and at others full times selling deer. So if you want the genetics you are looking for it is no farther than the phone and your wallet. So if you think my statements are ridiculous you need to read some of your own.

Yes there where, protein pellets are legume (alfalfa, peas, etc) based, along with cotton seed. When have We not had ag? I can image why Midwest grows such big deer.....

Breeders are irrelevant to a LF WR discussion. A) in TX, the release time frame required would be illegal, B) litmus test to pass it off isnt going to be beat, C) there is no financial upside


We can go round and round. If you want to argue genetic influence then go a head, your argument ended in 1920’s.



Now we have several examples of why people don't share deer anymore.

Cattle, sheep, goats, chickens, rabbits and pigs. Selectively bred to produce a desired trait. Deer are no different in some cases. I'm just glad we have deer now. I remember a time when deer were scarce and one with antlers was even more rare. I've seen people who swore they would never hunt high fence or exotics, high fence their places and introduce exotics when the opportunity arose. They're still my friends now their my friends with cool stuff to hunt.

I used to think Mitch Rompala was an A-hole now I just think he’s really smart.

When i shoot the world record I’m gonna share it with stxranchman, creek runner and bobo and that’s it....

I guess the rest of us can only hope STX will send us all a photo

Right!!!

But Dont share it with me, I dont like Feds and I'm sure they and the NSA will investigate any rumor of one!!!

Yea id put my hope else where, that man will probably take knowledge of a “bunch”of Net all time deer to the grave.

Paranoia will destroy ya'

Like was said above, I can only imagine that the records days are numbered. With the rainfall we have had it should be a great year. Also in general I see more and more pictures of middle aged and mature bucks that are let walk. It appears more and more people are conscious off and attempting to practice some form or other of management and attempting to increase the quality of their deer herd.

He knows loose lips sink ships. He ain't about to go down with a ship

If he tells any one about my 221 net typical Coues deer off with his head!!

It could certainly happen this year. But many of those bucks people let walk are now behind a HF, which nullifies their inclusion in the records. I bet there aren't many places like TLK's old lease that have the combination of genetics, mgmt program, and low fence.

When was the last record mule deer shot?

They don’t manage them like whitetsils and arnt high fenced by and large.

If and when the record is broken, it will come out of Canada or the Midwest. I’ll bet a case of coors on it

The bucks that escape high fences are a interesting subject. I know a few years ago I videoed a buck with my Iphone behind a high fence near my lease that would score between 400-420. Obviously he would shatter the world record if he wasnt behind the high fence. BUT......if he were to escape and be killed on a nearby property by someone that had no clue he was a fugitive from the neighbors ranch......would he be a world record then? I know this was discussed awhile back but I dont remember the correct answer. I do remember that most people think he shouldnt count, but are there really any rules in place that would reject that deers claim of record status?

Panhandle or Oklahoma.

With that said global warming has Canada a true chance at breaking it, well until one freak winter, and then it starts all over again

Great genetics, lots of high quality food up there, fo' sho'. Been hunting up there for 22 years now.

Yea it's an interesting area, it always has a chance depending on winter kill.

Here's a whitetail we found dead in a plum thicket, 192". The guy holding it is a biologist buddy of mine.

The Hansen buck was only 3 years old when it was shot. How big would he have been at 5?

Oklahoma I don’t think has a chance, it will rank right in their with Kansas and Texas...big deer but I think a world record will be out.

That's my point what makes you think he wouldn't of died as winter kill that year. Not unheard of some parts of Upnorth having 50% + winter kill

Oklahoma is more quiet/down low then STX

If the record comes from Oklahoma, will B&C test for meth?

No the legalized it so falls under free-dom of choice

50% winter kill does happen but requires at least two other things to occur as catalysts . First and foremost you need deep snow (over 20 inches on the flat for more than 50 days straight). Temperature is much less of a factor than snow depth. Deep snow limits movement and access to food. Deep snow also aids predators which the is the second factor - hungry predators. Hansen's buck came from west of Saskatoon basically off the open prairie in farm country. That part of the world almost never has deep snow for 50 days straight as it is a dry part of the country and the wind blows it away. Add to that the farmers have killed off all the timber wolves in that part of the province. Only real predator around are coyotes in that area and without deep snow they are not typically a concern to a buck heading into their prime years. So although it can happen i doubt it has ever happened in the area where Hansen's buck was taken.

Once you get a little further north into the boreal forest than i am sure it happens more often. Wolves, the snow doesn't blow away and less food from ag sources.

I guess nobody really knows except him but has Milo Hansen made a lot of money displaying his buck at shows or from magazine stories, interviews and such?? Usually if there is a lot of money to be made, that is when cheating occurs like in large bass tournaments. Yet no other world record free range whitetails have come forward since Hansen's in 1993. This leads me to believe that maybe he hasn't made that much money from that buck.

I bet it happens more then we think. One of the lower elevation units I hunt in Idaho had a confirmed 50% deer winter kill not to long ago. With that said I bet not near as many deer make it to 7.5 compared to here which have mild to nonexistent winters

When I read this kind of post it reminds me of this story. Big Bucks have been a round a while just not where we can always find them.

https://www.buckmanager.com/2007/03/11/big-buck-found-at-lake-waco/

define "a lot of money" ?

He would not sell the rack so that took away the bulk of the cash right there. He did not make millions off of it. I would venture to guess in the 28 years since he shot the deer, in endorsements and appearances, he has made less than half a million off the deer.

Hirogen, thats interesting info, thanks for posting. Ill probably never hunt up in that country so it may not matter to me, but good stuff none the less.

so, a true World Record Whitetail has to be free-range, meaning (Low Fence)? Deer raising/managing/free range, too many ways to kill a deer

Correct???

the biggest score takes it no matter where it was living?

Boone and Crocket wont take High Fence deer correct?

so many scenario's.

In my worthless opinion. it must be killed on a low fenced ranch. Too easy under high fenced ranches.

Will it be a Bow record?

rifle record?

Black Powder record?

crossbow record?

I think it will be shot in the Midwest with a bow.

And you can bet whoever kills it will have watched it grow up/ patterned via trail cams.

I don’t know if there has been a typical buck that would net greater than the current 213” record killed behind a high fence I’m sure there has.

Easier to kill under a high fence, don’t be so sure. Read about the current world record. They knew the deer was there and they pushed it out of a patch of woods during a drive. Had been seen regularly. It wasn’t a Diamond in the rough Hail Mary type hunt. IIRC it had even been shot at before.

ok - NOT saying this buck is a world record but this is last season on our LF south texas lease I was on for 13 years - he was only 5 years old so believe it or not we let him walk - no idea if he will go up or down this year but this alone should make folks realize that a world record typical is possible in south texas these days - no introduced genetics - just protein and heavy culling and management and letting them grow to maturity - that is all we have done

I will concede that it’s possible for a typical record to come from properties like the Faith, Killam, Chittum-Holden pasture, etc.

I would not rule that out entirely but I still think the deer will come from thr midwest or Canada

What do you estimate he scored at 5?

200 - we have video and many pics - this was september just out of velvet - my experience is that when they first come out of velvet they are thin horned - then they seem to add mass

another pic of him

Fantastic deer. Sad to hear your group isn’t the one ground checking him.

Amazing deer tlk.

IME it is the exact opposite. When they turn hard horned and strip the velvet off, the antler is hard and dense. Hardened antler is done growing. If anything they loose mass as they rub trees and brush. IME with pen raised bucks that were darted to use as breeders and scoring them right after they strip the velvet...then picking up the sheds in the spring...they always lost mass.. The almost always lost inches from first score to final shed pick up score also. The more aggressive the buck is rubbing trees or signpost rubs, the more he looses in mass in the spots on his antlers where he continually rubs. It may not be much but they will loose.

Not the exact topic of this thread but somewhat related.
I just got this from TP&W who checked on the largest 8pt killed in Texas after seeing my buck.

I screen shot the email.



The card I got back from B&C says the official number on mine is 175 3/8

DS,

would love to see a photo.

Wow, that is impressive, congrats.

Look at his past posts-photos there. Not surprised it’s the top 8-amazing buck.

sounds like a great deer!

Keep in mind the record has to NET higher than the current record.

Deductions have killed many potential records even though they grossed higher.

Congratulations on your massive eight!! I saw it when you first posted photos and I couldn't imagine one that was even bigger with more mass.

stxranchman - you are the last person I want to debate with - you are way beyond my pay grade - however I have looked at literally thousand upon thousands of camera pics and our deer coming out of velvet always seemed to be more thin horned - after a few weeks out of velvet they would seem to regain their mass - just reporting what I witnessed with my own eyes

Once the velvet is stripped it has stopped being a living tissue....its just bone. Think of it like you skinning your finger and leaving it attached.....gory but its a good representation.


There is no physical way a hardened antler can put on any mass or grow at all.

Your probably just getting used to the deer being out of velvet after the initial shock of the difference in mass between velvet/no velvet

you are probably right

I think the tips are sharper looking coming out of velvet and slowly get worn down a little. That may be why they look thinner at first.

Yes he is. Methinks you are somewhat thrown off after having studying them so intently while in velvet.

It was 180 6/8 gross net 175 3/8
Not the best picture but does show finished mount.
I am away from the computer so don’t have the professional pictures the Taxidermist had done.



The card stuck in the grass is the official notice from B&C with final score
And I added the two sheds I used to rattle him up with.

Shazam what a toad! Unbelievable 8 pt there, and the mount and presentation are top notch as well. Congrats and well done.

Outstanding DS.

Congratulations!

awesomeness

This. Congrats

WOW!! That is an absolutely incredible deer. Congratulations!

And so it begins. https://www.themeateater.com/hunt/whitetail-deer/is-this-50-point-whitetail-the-new-world-record

Told y’all it was gonna come from the Midwest with a bow!


It won’t stick. Guy already admitted it was a high fence escapee more than likely

Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but TPWD does not allow releasing of pen raised deer onto a LF place any longer. I think they stopped it at least 5 or more years ago now. I know of one ranch in South Texas that bred and released bucks and bred does for about 4yrs in a row onto a LF ranch. So, if they are doing it they are doing it illegally. Not sure how they could bypass the release permit or to move deer legally and release site registration to get it done. Then their is the legal side of their annual herd information and inventory they have to do to keep the deer breeder permit legal and up to date. If this is in Oklahoma then I would not know anything about their regulations.