Texas Hunting Forum

"Book" Animals - enter them or not?

Posted By: HuntnFly67

"Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/27/21 05:07 PM

If you were to kill/harvest/take/[insert preferred verb here] an animal that qualified for Boone&Crockett, Pope&Young or the SCI Record book, would you go through the paperwork and red tape to have it officially scored and entered?

Would it matter to you if you owned the land, leased the land, took it off of a public land hunt, or were guided on the hunt?

I am very much on the fence on this. We have taken several whitetails that would qualify for entry into Pope and Young, but no one has actually entered the animal. I am staring at pictures of a pronghorn that would be a new Texas record and likely be a top 10 B&C animal. Conversely, 125" on a whitetail with a bow is not that huge of a deal, so just barely getting into P&Y could be seen as a rather low bar. Barely getting an animal into B&C is a bigger accolade, to me.

I do not know if I would want to attract the attention of a "recordbook spotlight" on property I leased. If I owned property, I would think it might be a nice feather in the cap to have animals entered into 'official recordbooks'. I also enjoy hunting to the point that I would like to give as much honor as possible to the animals that provide me with not only sustenance, but so much passion and enjoyment as they end their journey through life at my hand.

Before it is said, I am not solely about 'trophy hunting' per se. With regard to deer specifically, I enjoy improving the land and deer herd through management of habitat and population. I hope this doesn't devolve into a meat hunt vs. 'trophy shoot' topic.

I anticipate reading your perspectives.
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/27/21 05:14 PM

No, I’ve got a bunch of PY animals and no way I’d ever submit them.

I also tell friends that hunt with me I don’t want animals entered from my ranch.

Several reasons don’t like what the books have turned into, don’t want publicity or attention. With today’s mapping apps property owner info takes three minutes to find.
Posted By: stxranchman

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/27/21 05:16 PM

Personally, no I would not enter any in any book and I have several that would qualify. To me if an animal is entered into a "book", then the hunters name should be anonymous...a book judging animals should be about the animals not the hunter. The animal is the emphasis not the hunter or collector. This is my personal preference. I do not impose my point of view on the matter when it comes to what someone else wants to do with animals they shoot.
Posted By: redchevy

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/27/21 05:27 PM

No interest in it for me.
Posted By: tlk

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/27/21 05:32 PM

I took the deer of my life some years back off of our LF lease - I hunted my butt off for him.

I had him scored by an official scorer and he qualified for Boone and Crockett. It is pretty rare to be fortunate enough to have one that qualifies and I am still proud of it to this day. (B&C does not require the name of the ranch be published - just the state and county)
Posted By: ntxtrapper

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/27/21 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
No, I’ve got a bunch of PY animals and no way I’d ever submit them.

I also tell friends that hunt with me I don’t want animals entered from my ranch.

Several reasons don’t like what the books have turned into, don’t want publicity or attention. With today’s mapping apps property owner info takes three minutes to find.



^^^^^This
Posted By: Blank

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/27/21 09:22 PM

I have several different B&C Coues or Blacktail deer, and have never entered them and won't. It doesn't matter to anyone but me, and the partners on the hunts what they score. My goal is to take a B&C WT and MD to finish out that total goal.

That said, I have entered quite a few African animals in SCI, as I don't give a crap what they think or care, and it is good advertising for my friends over there, for future hunts!!
Posted By: Theringworm

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/27/21 09:28 PM

I am not a land owner so I can’t comment on it from that perspective. If I were, I could see it potentially causing some problems. I generally have an idea when hunting a certain animal what qualifies as big or trophy size/book animal, but not down to nitty gritty legalities of official scoring. If I shot an animal of such caliber I would have no desire for anyone else to know but I would personally like to know where my trophy fell amongst others taken previously. Not for boasting purposes/bragging rights. It wasn’t me that enabled this animal to grow to trophy status or survive for the length of time he did. I simply would want to give credit back to the animal and know how he would compare to other trophy animals of his same species. I have thought about having a couple of animals scored as I think they would be a book caliber animal. But honestly, I think it would be more headache than it’s worth.
Posted By: tlk

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/27/21 09:51 PM

Boone and Crockett does not list the ranch or location of where an entry is killed - just the county and state -
Posted By: syncerus

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/27/21 10:11 PM

I could go either way on this. If it makes you happy, then do it.
Posted By: txtrophy85

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/27/21 10:15 PM

Normally I would not, unless it was a truly remarkable animaI. I have a friend who shot a top 50 elk in college and he entered it. He sold it to cabelas some years back and it being in the book helped verify the price tag, in that case.

I have entered 1 animal, my Sika, into the SCI books. Currently he is no. 28 all time North America. I only did it because he was an extremely large specimen. And I did it for the animal not for me.

I have several other heads that would make the SCI book but I have no interest in entering them

Posted By: dkershen

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/27/21 10:24 PM

We had a number of bucks qualify for Texas Big Game Awards, and helped hunters turn in paperwork. Towards the end we asked them not to name the ranch anymore because of poaching problems.

I personally turned my Kudu score into SCI after my Africa hunt. Wanted the cool plaque that said "Gold Award" to display with the pedestal mount. Just bragging rights I guess.
Posted By: Nogalus Prairie

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/27/21 10:30 PM

I don’t think there’s a right or wrong answer. I entered my P&Y moose because he was top 100 and I was proud of him. But I was younger then. I have another couple that would likely make it but I haven’t scored them. I haven’t even measured the curl on my biggest ram. I knew they were animals I was happy with when I took them so I have no need to put a number on them.

There’s nothing wrong with scoring but IMO attaching numbers to animals has gotten to the point where they are often just reduced to those numbers. That mostly applies to whitetails I think….
Posted By: QMC SW/EXW

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/27/21 10:34 PM

I never have. Shot a Cape Elsnd in RSA that the PH measured at #13 in the world. It has never been officially scored or enteted and I dhot a mulie that I self scored st 206. It also has never been officially scored
Posted By: freerange

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 02:34 AM

Huntnfly67, I am right with you on all you said. I’m not sure on answering your question though. I would lean towards not entering but a Book WT or MD is special for sure.
I agree on it being about the animal and the habitat that produced it. If you ever see any of my dead deer pics you will always see me looking at the deer and not the camera.
Also, I love to field score deer even though that’s not the only criteria for what to kill. It adds another element to the hunting experience to think and talk about score. It’s also a good yardstick to evaluate how your management program is working.
Also, nothing really wrong with “mines bigger than yours”, that’s been a part of our society for eons. People without any ego or goals are a little different for sure.
Posted By: freerange

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 02:37 AM

Huntfly67, I would love to hear more about the big pronghorn. Is he alive? My good friend controls big country in Tx that produces most of the big pronghorns in Tx so I’m curious. Of course if he is alive I wouldn’t be telling.
Posted By: majekman

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 03:10 AM

I was very fortunate to hunt some outstanding LF big sotex country many years ago with a small group of guys for quite a few years...I took some outstanding deer as they did. I took one that would qualify for the book. It was scored by a friend who was an official B&C scorer at the time. He was also taped by my taxi guy and agreed on being a book deer. Never notified anyone about anything as far as registering the deer. That wasn’t my thing. I always caught hell about it from a couple of our group because the score never really mattered then to me. We were a close knit group and didn’t do much show and tell outsider our circle....
But this was also pretty much pre computer times and definitely no social media except MAYBE a pic in the local fish wrap paper that came out once a week.
Great memories
Posted By: unclebubba

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 03:27 AM

If it's a big enough of an animal to break into the top 20 or so, or a state or county record, I'd probably get it scored and entered. I definitely would not give the name of the ranch I was on.
Posted By: ntxtrapper

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 04:13 AM

Originally Posted by tlk
Boone and Crockett does not list the ranch or location of where an entry is killed - just the county and state -


If you own your ranch, your name is all that some folks need to know where it was taken. I've had half a dozen letters over the last few months, just because of the onX Hunt app and my ranch location. I hate that thing.
Posted By: kry226

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 06:44 AM

Not sure I have a solid opinion on this. To each their own, I guess.

I shot a B&C buck a little over 15 years ago and I entered it because it was a top 10 buck in that state at the time and taken on public land. But I did it to recognize the majesty of that animal, not for my own recognition.

Each situation and animal is different and I guess I'll have to say that the decision is up to the hunter.
Posted By: Hudbone

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 10:22 AM

If it’s about gaining obscure notoriety from people you don’t know, book it. If you want special notoriety from those who know you, don’t book it.
Posted By: Nogalus Prairie

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 11:42 AM

There’s a whole lot more people seeking to gain notoriety by claiming animals are “book” animals without having them officially scored than people who actually have animals officially scored and entered. There probably aren’t 5 actual 200” scoring free range whitetails taken in any given year but you’ll read about or see 50 claimed to be that big.

Lots of folks will say they don’t enter animals because they don’t care, all the while talking score/numbers with every other breath.
Posted By: tlk

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie
There’s a whole lot more people seeking to gain notoriety by claiming animals are “book” animals without having them officially scored than people who actually have animals officially scored and entered. There probably aren’t 5 actual 200” scoring free range whitetails taken in any given year but you’ll read about or see 50 claimed to be that big.

Lots of folks will say they don’t enter animals because they don’t care, all the while talking score/numbers with every other breath.


Truth
Posted By: Erny

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 12:21 PM

I have killed at least one animal that is B&C eligible and a bunch that are SCI Gold. No interest in entering them.
Posted By: Simple Searcher

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 12:37 PM

There are some huge deer that have never been entered in the books. I would bet some that would top the #1s too, but the hunter never cared to enter them.
So if you shoot a deer (antelope, whatever) and it makes #10 in the books, is it really number the #10 best deer ever hunted? Probably not.
I take the books as only a guideline of big animals, not necessary an accurate log of all actual large animals that have been hunted.
We have never bothered entering a "book" animal.
Posted By: Hudbone

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 12:58 PM

Only one for certain would have qualified B&C deer taken off our place. An impressive beast no doubt. Some guy named Stein netted him at just over 180. A top five for most appealing here, but not at the top (IMHO).
Posted By: fredgus

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 01:21 PM

i shot a free range auodad years back had him scored at the time he would make oddly enough like the other post number 13 in the sci there have been bigger since but i didnt put him in the book for a different reason i always figured i could sell him to someone wanting to get in the book if i ever need money bad enough
Posted By: stxranchman

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie
There’s a whole lot more people seeking to gain notoriety by claiming animals are “book” animals without having them officially scored than people who actually have animals officially scored and entered. There probably aren’t 5 actual 200” scoring free range whitetails taken in any given year but you’ll read about or see 50 claimed to be that big.

Lots of folks will say they don’t enter animals because they don’t care, all the while talking score/numbers with every other breath.

If I agreed with you then we would both be wrong. Actually, last year there were 8 killed in Texas over 200" gross with 5 netting over 200" last year that were reported of which 2 were typical killed that grossed over 200" and both netted 190+....all low fence. Those were the ones only reported on TBGA. There are many more killed that are not reported due to lease or ranch rules. I know of several killed that are like that each year. There were 3 LF typical WT killed last year that grossed over 190"....one in area that is not know for deer that big....2 were the ones just over 200" gross that both netted 190 and change....both from the same county. I had a friend that was on a LF lease 2 yrs ago that had killed a 220 NT gross the year before....they had rules that kept any deer from being entered in any contest.
http://texasbiggameawards.org/wp-co...%20Entries%20Website%20Final%2005-12.pdf
There are not many ranches that do not have a management program in place. Part of their management plan is scoring deer and year to year records if they are in a TPWD MLD program. So, while they may talk "score" it is only a gauging process for how well the ranch is progressing. It is just one part of a what they do. Some only measure base mass, beam length, spread and total points on a buck or any mix of certain scores to track their progress. B&C is just a measuring system that was the first, so it is what is used.
Posted By: Wytex

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 02:01 PM

I m entering my bighorn sheep from 2019, as an homage to the work WG&F have done on this sheep herd.
Without their work on bringing in transplants and monitoring the herd we would not have a great, viable population to hunt DIY.
I want folks to know you can hunt sheep without an outfitter and take a great animal DIY.
Posted By: Nogalus Prairie

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by stxranchman
Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie
There’s a whole lot more people seeking to gain notoriety by claiming animals are “book” animals without having them officially scored than people who actually have animals officially scored and entered. There probably aren’t 5 actual 200” scoring free range whitetails taken in any given year but you’ll read about or see 50 claimed to be that big.

Lots of folks will say they don’t enter animals because they don’t care, all the while talking score/numbers with every other breath.

If I agreed with you then we would both be wrong. Actually, last year there were 8 killed in Texas over 200" gross with 5 netting over 200" last year that were reported of which 2 were typical killed that grossed over 200" and both netted 190+....all low fence. Those were the ones only reported on TBGA. There are many more killed that are not reported due to lease or ranch rules. I know of several killed that are like that each year. There were 3 LF typical WT killed last year that grossed over 190"....one in area that is not know for deer that big....2 were the ones just over 200" gross that both netted 190 and change....both from the same county. I had a friend that was on a LF lease 2 yrs ago that had killed a 220 NT gross the year before....they had rules that kept any deer from being entered in any contest.
http://texasbiggameawards.org/wp-co...%20Entries%20Website%20Final%2005-12.pdf
There are not many ranches that do not have a management program in place. Part of their management plan is scoring deer and year to year records if they are in a TPWD MLD program. So, while they may talk "score" it is only a gauging process for how well the ranch is progressing. It is just one part of a what they do. Some only measure base mass, beam length, spread and total points on a buck or any mix of certain scores to track their progress. B&C is just a measuring system that was the first, so it is what is used.


Your post proves the point.

Why are you talking about 190s deer or gross scores when my post mentions neither? There is no such thing as “gross” when it comes to an official score - which are all net.
(Also, I was thinking about typical deer - sorry I wasn’t more precise. But since 200” nontypicals are not nearly so rare I assumed most readers would know that.)
Finally, your “I know several deer that….” post is repeated hundreds of times a year on social media by any number of folks. Until a deer is officially scored, it’s just someone talking on the internet. I’m not saying there aren’t some that aren’t scored or entered, but most talk of 200” typicals is just that - talk.
Posted By: stxranchman

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted by stxranchman
Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie
There’s a whole lot more people seeking to gain notoriety by claiming animals are “book” animals without having them officially scored than people who actually have animals officially scored and entered. There probably aren’t 5 actual 200” scoring free range whitetails taken in any given year but you’ll read about or see 50 claimed to be that big.

Lots of folks will say they don’t enter animals because they don’t care, all the while talking score/numbers with every other breath.

If I agreed with you then we would both be wrong. Actually, last year there were 8 killed in Texas over 200" gross with 5 netting over 200" last year that were reported of which 2 were typical killed that grossed over 200" and both netted 190+....all low fence. Those were the ones only reported on TBGA. There are many more killed that are not reported due to lease or ranch rules. I know of several killed that are like that each year. There were 3 LF typical WT killed last year that grossed over 190"....one in area that is not know for deer that big....2 were the ones just over 200" gross that both netted 190 and change....both from the same county. I had a friend that was on a LF lease 2 yrs ago that had killed a 220 NT gross the year before....they had rules that kept any deer from being entered in any contest.
http://texasbiggameawards.org/wp-co...%20Entries%20Website%20Final%2005-12.pdf
There are not many ranches that do not have a management program in place. Part of their management plan is scoring deer and year to year records if they are in a TPWD MLD program. So, while they may talk "score" it is only a gauging process for how well the ranch is progressing. It is just one part of a what they do. Some only measure base mass, beam length, spread and total points on a buck or any mix of certain scores to track their progress. B&C is just a measuring system that was the first, so it is what is used.


Your post proves the point.

Why are you talking about 190s deer or gross scores when my post mentions neither? There is no such thing as “gross” when it comes to an official score - which are all net.
(Also, I was thinking about typical deer - sorry I wasn’t more precise. But since 200” nontypicals are not nearly so rare I assumed most readers would know that.)
Finally, your “I know several deer that….” post is repeated hundreds of times a year on social media by any number of folks. Until a deer is officially scored, it’s just someone talking on the internet. I’m not saying there aren’t some that aren’t scored or entered, but most talk of 200” typicals is just that - talk.

Because you did not mention it.... rolleyes I mentioned them just incase you meant typical instead of nontypical. 2 of those grossed 200" typical if you read what I posted correctly. When you have a deer officially scored you have a gross and net score on the sheet. You can not get a net score without a gross.
Posted By: Hudbone

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted by stxranchman
Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie
There’s a whole lot more people seeking to gain notoriety by claiming animals are “book” animals without having them officially scored than people who actually have animals officially scored and entered. There probably aren’t 5 actual 200” scoring free range whitetails taken in any given year but you’ll read about or see 50 claimed to be that big.

Lots of folks will say they don’t enter animals because they don’t care, all the while talking score/numbers with every other breath.

If I agreed with you then we would both be wrong. Actually, last year there were 8 killed in Texas over 200" gross with 5 netting over 200" last year that were reported of which 2 were typical killed that grossed over 200" and both netted 190+....all low fence. Those were the ones only reported on TBGA. There are many more killed that are not reported due to lease or ranch rules. I know of several killed that are like that each year. There were 3 LF typical WT killed last year that grossed over 190"....one in area that is not know for deer that big....2 were the ones just over 200" gross that both netted 190 and change....both from the same county. I had a friend that was on a LF lease 2 yrs ago that had killed a 220 NT gross the year before....they had rules that kept any deer from being entered in any contest.
http://texasbiggameawards.org/wp-co...%20Entries%20Website%20Final%2005-12.pdf
There are not many ranches that do not have a management program in place. Part of their management plan is scoring deer and year to year records if they are in a TPWD MLD program. So, while they may talk "score" it is only a gauging process for how well the ranch is progressing. It is just one part of a what they do. Some only measure base mass, beam length, spread and total points on a buck or any mix of certain scores to track their progress. B&C is just a measuring system that was the first, so it is what is used.


Your post proves the point.

Why are you talking about 190s deer or gross scores when my post mentions neither? There is no such thing as “gross” when it comes to an official score - which are all net.
(Also, I was thinking about typical deer - sorry I wasn’t more precise. But since 200” nontypicals are not nearly so rare I assumed most readers would know that.)
Finally, your “I know several deer that….” post is repeated hundreds of times a year on social media by any number of folks. Until a deer is officially scored, it’s just someone talking on the internet. I’m not saying there aren’t some that aren’t scored or entered, but most talk of 200” typicals is just that - talk.


Someone here is pointing in way the wrong direction.

NP’s “insight” on net score is part of the problem. Symmetry does not always equate to that which is best or most favored.
Posted By: Nogalus Prairie

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by Hudbone
Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted by stxranchman
Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie
There’s a whole lot more people seeking to gain notoriety by claiming animals are “book” animals without having them officially scored than people who actually have animals officially scored and entered. There probably aren’t 5 actual 200” scoring free range whitetails taken in any given year but you’ll read about or see 50 claimed to be that big.

Lots of folks will say they don’t enter animals because they don’t care, all the while talking score/numbers with every other breath.

If I agreed with you then we would both be wrong. Actually, last year there were 8 killed in Texas over 200" gross with 5 netting over 200" last year that were reported of which 2 were typical killed that grossed over 200" and both netted 190+....all low fence. Those were the ones only reported on TBGA. There are many more killed that are not reported due to lease or ranch rules. I know of several killed that are like that each year. There were 3 LF typical WT killed last year that grossed over 190"....one in area that is not know for deer that big....2 were the ones just over 200" gross that both netted 190 and change....both from the same county. I had a friend that was on a LF lease 2 yrs ago that had killed a 220 NT gross the year before....they had rules that kept any deer from being entered in any contest.
http://texasbiggameawards.org/wp-co...%20Entries%20Website%20Final%2005-12.pdf
There are not many ranches that do not have a management program in place. Part of their management plan is scoring deer and year to year records if they are in a TPWD MLD program. So, while they may talk "score" it is only a gauging process for how well the ranch is progressing. It is just one part of a what they do. Some only measure base mass, beam length, spread and total points on a buck or any mix of certain scores to track their progress. B&C is just a measuring system that was the first, so it is what is used.


Your post proves the point.

Why are you talking about 190s deer or gross scores when my post mentions neither? There is no such thing as “gross” when it comes to an official score - which are all net.
(Also, I was thinking about typical deer - sorry I wasn’t more precise. But since 200” nontypicals are not nearly so rare I assumed most readers would know that.)
Finally, your “I know several deer that….” post is repeated hundreds of times a year on social media by any number of folks. Until a deer is officially scored, it’s just someone talking on the internet. I’m not saying there aren’t some that aren’t scored or entered, but most talk of 200” typicals is just that - talk.


Someone here is pointing in way the wrong direction.

NP’s “insight” on net score is part of the problem. Symmetry does not always equate to that which is best or most favored.


The topic is book animals.To be entered into the record books a score must be official (that is, an actual score). There is no such thing as an official “gross” score. Those are simply the facts.
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by ntxtrapper
Originally Posted by tlk
Boone and Crockett does not list the ranch or location of where an entry is killed - just the county and state -


If you own your ranch, your name is all that some folks need to know where it was taken. I've had half a dozen letters over the last few months, just because of the onX Hunt app and my ranch location. I hate that thing.


Yelp, and there is also cell phone data on pics. I’ve had out fitters calling me trying to lease my old ranch after a family posted a deer.
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie


The topic is book animals.To be entered into the record books a score must be official (that is, an actual score). There is no such thing as an official “gross” score. Those are simply the facts.


Have you ever thought that you might be arguing with official TBGA, PY and or B&C scorers? roflmao

And people that have net animals that have been officially measured?

It never changes
Posted By: stxranchman

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted by Hudbone
Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted by stxranchman

If I agreed with you then we would both be wrong. Actually, last year there were 8 killed in Texas over 200" gross with 5 netting over 200" last year that were reported of which 2 were typical killed that grossed over 200" and both netted 190+....all low fence. Those were the ones only reported on TBGA. There are many more killed that are not reported due to lease or ranch rules. I know of several killed that are like that each year. There were 3 LF typical WT killed last year that grossed over 190"....one in area that is not know for deer that big....2 were the ones just over 200" gross that both netted 190 and change....both from the same county. I had a friend that was on a LF lease 2 yrs ago that had killed a 220 NT gross the year before....they had rules that kept any deer from being entered in any contest.
http://texasbiggameawards.org/wp-co...%20Entries%20Website%20Final%2005-12.pdf
There are not many ranches that do not have a management program in place. Part of their management plan is scoring deer and year to year records if they are in a TPWD MLD program. So, while they may talk "score" it is only a gauging process for how well the ranch is progressing. It is just one part of a what they do. Some only measure base mass, beam length, spread and total points on a buck or any mix of certain scores to track their progress. B&C is just a measuring system that was the first, so it is what is used.


Your post proves the point.

Why are you talking about 190s deer or gross scores when my post mentions neither? There is no such thing as “gross” when it comes to an official score - which are all net.
(Also, I was thinking about typical deer - sorry I wasn’t more precise. But since 200” nontypicals are not nearly so rare I assumed most readers would know that.)
Finally, your “I know several deer that….” post is repeated hundreds of times a year on social media by any number of folks. Until a deer is officially scored, it’s just someone talking on the internet. I’m not saying there aren’t some that aren’t scored or entered, but most talk of 200” typicals is just that - talk.


Someone here is pointing in way the wrong direction.

NP’s “insight” on net score is part of the problem. Symmetry does not always equate to that which is best or most favored.


The topic is book animals.To be entered into the record books a score must be official (that is, an actual score). There is no such thing as an official “gross” score. Those are simply the facts.

There is for TBGA program...the one I posted the link to. I did not post a link your B&C club. Deer can be scored by a B&C scorer and still not entered. All of the scorers on TBGA are taught to score B&C and some are official scorers. While their score is official...it is not official till the paperwork is signed and is sent in.
Posted By: Nogalus Prairie

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie


The topic is book animals.To be entered into the record books a score must be official (that is, an actual score). There is no such thing as an official “gross” score. Those are simply the facts.


Have you ever thought that you might be arguing with official TBGA, PY and or B&C scorers? roflmao

And people that have net animals that have been officially measured?

It never changes


What never changes is those who say I am “arguing” are the ones who ignore what I actually post, make up stuff I didn’t post so they can respond to their own straw men - while others have nothing to add but snarky remarks.
Posted By: Hudbone

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 07:43 PM

I thought my comments were salient. Who be these straw men you refer to?
Posted By: Hudbone

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 09:42 PM

There are lots out there who choose to avoid the spotlight and for different reasons. There are some on this forum well connected to the Texas hunting community and are privileged to see this more than others. This way of thinking can easily be extrapolated into avoiding the “book”.

I did enter one deer in TX Big Game Awards, but that was after we grew comfortable with our land owner. If I’d have entered the buck I took the first year, the other lease members may have tar and feathered me. Los Cazadores has also been an omission.

Personally, I have no issues with anyone desiring to book their deer. That’s their call. One of my friends loves his belt buckle.
Posted By: tlk

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 10:05 PM

As always it ends up "to each his own" - if somebody does not wish to have a deer put into a record book (whichever one that might me) then no worries. If someone decides they want to enter it then no worries. You like Chevy and I like Ford - big deal - too much bickering of non-important stuff these days IMO
Posted By: Hudbone

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 10:15 PM

I prefer blondes.
Posted By: tlk

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by Hudbone
I prefer blondes.



Well there you go
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie


The topic is book animals.To be entered into the record books a score must be official (that is, an actual score). There is no such thing as an official “gross” score. Those are simply the facts.


Have you ever thought that you might be arguing with official TBGA, PY and or B&C scorers? roflmao

And people that have net animals that have been officially measured?

It never changes


What never changes is those who say I am “arguing” are the ones who ignore what I actually post, make up stuff I didn’t post so they can respond to their own straw men - while others have nothing to add but snarky remarks.


Nope your mirror doesn’t change. Stx gave you 5 net 200 deer, and you decided scoring systems weren’t equivalent , relevant or scores transferable
Posted By: Creekrunner

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 10:40 PM

Glorified pecker measurin' contest.
Posted By: tlk

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by Creekrunner
Glorified pecker measurin' contest.



Yep - I call UNCLE - feels like we are back in Junior High sometimes doesn't it?
Posted By: Jgraider

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by Hudbone


NP’s “insight” on net score is part of the problem. Symmetry does not always equate to that which is best or most favored.


Just another subject NP is clueless about. The B&C book does list the gross and net scores. I have been fortunate to kill three book heads. I mule deer I killed in Sonora that was going to land in the all time top 100 typicals so I did enter him. Last time I looked (4-5 years ago) he was at 115 or so all time. I killed two pronghorn's that booked, one made the records and the other all time but I did not enter either of them. I've killed quite a few SCI class animals in Africa that I have no interest in entering, as I think SCI is a joke. To each his own though, as I love looking at, and for big, big bucks.
Posted By: Smokey Bear

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 11:25 PM

The men I hunt with and I do not enter them or post them on the net. Doesn’t make them any bigger or harder to kill. Not publicizing does not diminish the quality of the animals. Publicity draws unwanted attention to what we are doing and more importantly where. We already have issues with slack jawed redneck poachers from time to time. None of us need to prove anything. Those that are a part of what we are doing give the animals there due reverence.
Loose lips sink ships.
Posted By: Nogalus Prairie

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by Jgraider
Originally Posted by Hudbone


NP’s “insight” on net score is part of the problem. Symmetry does not always equate to that which is best or most favored.


Just another subject NP is clueless about. The B&C book does list the gross and net scores. I have been fortunate to kill three book heads. I mule deer I killed in Sonora that was going to land in the all time top 100 typicals so I did enter him. Last time I looked (4-5 years ago) he was at 115 or so all time. I killed two pronghorn's that booked, one made the records and the other all time but I did not enter either of them. I've killed quite a few SCI class animals in Africa that I have no interest in entering, as I think SCI is a joke. To each his own though, as I love looking at, and for big, big bucks.


The official scores are the net scores. Gross scores are for informational purposes only. And you call me clueless?

There are no Texas typicals in the top 20. None. Starting at #19 the scores drop below 200. Thus, there has never been a Texas typical over 200 entered. Yet some would have us believe that bucks that would crack the top 20 ever recorded are taken with regularity here in Texas - just not officially scored and entered. Yeah, OK. Whatever.

No doubt some big deer are taken every year that are not officially scored or entered. But what there is absolutely no doubt about is that guys come on internet forums and call deer 200” or 190” or 180” deer (or whatever) - which if they were actually officially scored would score much less. In other words, talk is common and talk is cheap.
Posted By: Nogalus Prairie

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/28/21 11:45 PM

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Jgraider

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/29/21 12:28 AM

Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie
[Linked Image]



Tell us something we don't know. As I said, I've got on in there. You're B&C in running your mouth and imagination that's for sure.
Posted By: Jgraider

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/29/21 12:37 AM

Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie


The topic is book animals.To be entered into the record books a score must be official (that is, an actual score). There is no such thing as an official “gross” score. Those are simply the facts.



Well I'll be darned.......wrong again Perry Mason. The facts in your world are obviously different from the real one we live in.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Wilhunt

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/29/21 12:51 AM

Huntfly67 we seem to have got away from your original post. blush
Posted By: tlk

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/29/21 01:05 AM

once again we are back in Junior High School - geeez- does it REALLY MATTER?
Posted By: freerange

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/29/21 02:11 AM

Im out at the lease and going through camera pics. LOTS of "Book" bucks. Cant wait till season, may be several over 200!!!! But Im waiting for a 300 so Im not shooting. Yall will just have to take my word for it. (do I need to put a smiley face?)
One of the guys while ago did(really) kill a Timber Rattler with 16 rattles and he thought it was 6'.
Posted By: freerange

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/29/21 02:15 AM

Sorry OP, back to topic I hope. It really is a good question and hopefully everyone can answer any way they want and not be judged. No doubt, to each their own on this one.
Posted By: Txhunter65

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/29/21 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by Hudbone
I prefer blondes.

I loved them every one.
Posted By: redchevy

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/30/21 01:17 PM

This is almost as dumb as the vax/anti vax posts.

What the hell do I know, always preferred blonds and married a brunet and couldn't be happier
Posted By: ILUVBIGBUCKS

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/30/21 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
No, I’ve got a bunch of PY animals and no way I’d ever submit them.

I also tell friends that hunt with me I don’t want animals entered from my ranch.

Several reasons don’t like what the books have turned into, don’t want publicity or attention. With today’s mapping apps property owner info takes three minutes to find.


Exactly right BOBO

I couldn't agree more
Posted By: EddieWalker

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/30/21 03:24 PM

Back in the early 90's when I was first getting into traveling to hunt, I thought that I wanted to enter animals into the record book. Then a guy I worked with wrote a poem and paid to have it printed in a book full of poems that other people paid to have in that same book. It was a pretty thick, hard cover book that he also paid to buy. Everyone who paid to have their poem in that book, also bought the book. His poem was horrible, but he was very proud of having it published. I felt embarrassed for him, because I felt that he had been scammed. He got his book with his poem, but he is the only person in the world that would read it, or care that it existed. I got the same feeling about the record books for hunting. The more I learned, the more it seemed that it was something that nobody really cared about except the person paying to enter their animal, and then buying the book to show others.

What I do like about the different scoring systems is that they tell me what a mature animal is. I don't want to shoot something that isn't a mature representation of that species, and the only way to be sure of this is comparing it to what is in the record books. I had to laugh when I scored my Thar and saw that I was tied with hundreds of other people. And the next one up, which was every 1/8th of an inch, also had hundreds of people with the same score, and the same with every Thar that was 1/8th of an inch smaller. The silliness of it still makes me laugh. Hundreds of people paid to have their name in a book to show that they shot a Thar that has the same score as so many other people. They probably all bought a book with their name it too!!!
Posted By: Smokey Bear

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/30/21 06:35 PM

Bobo I see it the same. On the other hand, some seem to get more out of big dicking about what they done than actually doing it, so there is that aspect for some.
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/30/21 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by Smokey Bear
Bobo I see it the same. On the other hand, some seem to get more out of big dicking about what they done than actually doing it, so there is that aspect for some.


I'd have a different opinion of the books if they excluded hunter name. Original B&C book was meant to highlight conservation efforts by highlighting areas that had great age structure, nutrition and last genetics. About the deer not the hunter. They can put the certificate below mount/horns on the wall
Posted By: BigfootWallace

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/30/21 07:56 PM

I hunt for one reason, because it's fun. I'm not worried about impressing some dbag who has 47 African mounts and such on the wall. Some of you overthink everything.
Posted By: HuntnFly67

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/30/21 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by Wilhunt
Huntfly67 we seem to have got away from your original post. blush


No flush! Definitely got in the weeds pretty fast.

For the most part, I was enjoying the responses.

I am 100% on the fence as to whether or not I would want something in the book. My answer is, "it depends". On my land (leased or owned), I am inclined towards "No"; especially for 'just' a whitetail. For a safari or outfitter hunt, I think it'd be a nice nod the guide and some good advertising for their outfit. I have been on several ranches that getting a slam of WT, MD, and pronghorn is an annual occurrence, but they don't mess with it.

Because my answer is not an absolute YES, that to me, indicates that having an animal in 'the book' indicates it is not an 'ego thing' for me. It is more about paying homage to the animal.

Posted By: tlk

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/30/21 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by HuntnFly67
Originally Posted by Wilhunt
Huntfly67 we seem to have got away from your original post. blush


No flush! Definitely got in the weeds pretty fast.

For the most part, I was enjoying the responses.

I am 100% on the fence as to whether or not I would want something in the book. My answer is, "it depends". On my land (leased or owned), I am inclined towards "No"; especially for 'just' a whitetail. For a safari or outfitter hunt, I think it'd be a nice nod the guide and some good advertising for their outfit. I have been on several ranches that getting a slam of WT, MD, and pronghorn is an annual occurrence, but they don't mess with it.

Because my answer is not an absolute YES, that to me, indicates that having an animal in 'the book' indicates it is not an 'ego thing' for me. It is more about paying homage to the animal.




Since I was in my late 20's I have read every magazine, book (including B&C) etc. because I was infatuated with how rare it was to qualify with a book deer. Over the next 40 years I hunted all over Texas - when I was lucky enough to get on a LF place that could potentially produce a book deer I was excited. Had nothing to do with me or my ego - had to do with a dream of someday getting the opportunity to even see a book deer much less take one. I passed on my deer when he was a 5 year old 9 point that scored 175. Then the following year I hunted my butt off for him and was lucky to take him. I will never apologize for killing a legitimate B&C deer - one of the most memorable times of my life

For those who are saying that if they put a deer in the book that everyone will know exactly where their ranch is that is not true. My buck went in the book 12 years ago - B&C has no pictures - just a listing of the score and county period. I posted tons of pictures over 13 years (many of them on this forum) of our deer on our LF lease. I lost the lease this year but had nothing to do with somebody "tracking down a picture and contacting the ranch owner" -

Not a good picture but here he was at age 5 and a 9 point 175 inch deer - I passed and let him reach his full potential of 201 gross and 198 net - only 3 net inches of deductions. Second picture is of him the year I took him - so again I would enter him again in the B&C book and have zero apologies - to each his own



[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]



Posted By: Jgraider

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/31/21 02:14 AM

Good gracious now that's a whitetail! Truly the buck of several lifetimes. I wouldn't, and don't apologize for entering alpha bucks like that in the book. To say it's an ego trip is just ridiculous. I did it, and I bet you did as well, to honor the buck. I wish I knew the odds of even seeing a buck like that in a lifetime, much less killing one. Congrats!
Posted By: jeffbird

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/31/21 02:37 AM

Originally Posted by tlk


[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]





Outstanding tlk, congratulations. up

[Linked Image]
Posted By: freerange

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/31/21 02:39 AM

Originally Posted by Jgraider
Good gracious now that's a whitetail! Truly the buck of several lifetimes. I wouldn't, and don't apologize for entering alpha bucks like that in the book. To say it's an ego trip is just ridiculous. I did it, and I bet you did as well, to honor the buck. I wish I knew the odds of even seeing a buck like that in a lifetime, much less killing one. Congrats!

I echo Jgraider on that. TRULY a buck of a lifetime and the buck deserves any recognition the hunter wishes to give him. As many have said, the recognition of the hunter is solely up to that person and I have no issue either way. I completely understand that some dont want to draw attention to where it was killed. I also agree that no one should feel the need to apologize for putting an animal in a book.
As an aside, Im confused that some have implied that its a "hassle" or requires "effort" or that there is some involved "process". I dont know the exact process but i think its real real easy and costs nothing.
Posted By: SapperTitan

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/31/21 02:46 AM

I entered my mule deer from 2020 for TBGA it didn’t qualify for B&C as minimum is like 212 for NT. I didn’t do it for the recognition for myself but for the deer. I was happy to see him get the recognition for the trophy he was and will always be for me.
Posted By: ILUVBIGBUCKS

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/31/21 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted by Jgraider
Originally Posted by Hudbone


NP’s “insight” on net score is part of the problem. Symmetry does not always equate to that which is best or most favored.


Just another subject NP is clueless about. The B&C book does list the gross and net scores. I have been fortunate to kill three book heads. I mule deer I killed in Sonora that was going to land in the all time top 100 typicals so I did enter him. Last time I looked (4-5 years ago) he was at 115 or so all time. I killed two pronghorn's that booked, one made the records and the other all time but I did not enter either of them. I've killed quite a few SCI class animals in Africa that I have no interest in entering, as I think SCI is a joke. To each his own though, as I love looking at, and for big, big bucks.


The official scores are the net scores. Gross scores are for informational purposes only. And you call me clueless?

There are no Texas typicals in the top 20. None. Starting at #19 the scores drop below 200. Thus, there has never been a Texas typical over 200 entered. Yet some would have us believe that bucks that would crack the top 20 ever recorded are taken with regularity here in Texas - just not officially scored and entered. Yeah, OK. Whatever.

No doubt some big deer are taken every year that are not officially scored or entered. But what there is absolutely no doubt about is that guys come on internet forums and call deer 200” or 190” or 180” deer (or whatever) - which if they were actually officially scored would score much less. In other words, talk is common and talk is cheap.

You are absolutely kidding yourself if you think there are not 200" NET typical deer killed in this state!
Just because a good majority of the folks who've busted their azz to get deer this big chose not to enter them in some book, or even a contest doesn't mean they are not being killed.

Last, just because they are not entered doesn't mean they haven't already been scored and scored correctly by official scorers!
Posted By: ILUVBIGBUCKS

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/31/21 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by tlk
[


Since I was in my late 20's I have read every magazine, book (including B&C) etc. because I was infatuated with how rare it was to qualify with a book deer. Over the next 40 years I hunted all over Texas - when I was lucky enough to get on a LF place that could potentially produce a book deer I was excited. Had nothing to do with me or my ego - had to do with a dream of someday getting the opportunity to even see a book deer much less take one. I passed on my deer when he was a 5 year old 9 point that scored 175. Then the following year I hunted my butt off for him and was lucky to take him. I will never apologize for killing a legitimate B&C deer - one of the most memorable times of my life

For those who are saying that if they put a deer in the book that everyone will know exactly where their ranch is that is not true. My buck went in the book 12 years ago - B&C has no pictures - just a listing of the score and county period. I posted tons of pictures over 13 years (many of them on this forum) of our deer on our LF lease. I lost the lease this year but had nothing to do with somebody "tracking down a picture and contacting the ranch owner" -

Not a good picture but here he was at age 5 and a 9 point 175 inch deer - I passed and let him reach his full potential of 201 gross and 198 net - only 3 net inches of deductions. Second picture is of him the year I took him - so again I would enter him again in the B&C book and have zero apologies - to each his own




Just a ridiculously amazing deer tlk!
Congrats for sure and no doubt, well worthy of entering for sure.
Most guys would have ground checked him the year before and hat's off to you for giving him a pass and taking a huge chance......& wow did it pay dividends!
Posted By: freerange

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/31/21 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by HuntnFly67
Originally Posted by Wilhunt
Huntfly67 we seem to have got away from your original post. blush


No flush! Definitely got in the weeds pretty fast.

For the most part, I was enjoying the responses.

I am 100% on the fence as to whether or not I would want something in the book. My answer is, "it depends". On my land (leased or owned), I am inclined towards "No"; especially for 'just' a whitetail. For a safari or outfitter hunt, I think it'd be a nice nod the guide and some good advertising for their outfit. I have been on several ranches that getting a slam of WT, MD, and pronghorn is an annual occurrence, but they don't mess with it.

Because my answer is not an absolute YES, that to me, indicates that having an animal in 'the book' indicates it is not an 'ego thing' for me. It is more about paying homage to the animal.


Huntfly67, im not doubting that you have "been on several ranches that getting a Texas Slam is an annual occurrence". But I am very impressed. I know a thing or two about Texas Slams and Im aware of a couple ranches that have done all 3 species and Im not totally surprised there are more. I do think it would have to be a fairly rare event to even have all 3 of that quality on the same property much less have someone kill them. And then for you to of been on those places, once again not doubting, but impressed. I want to be your friend.
Posted By: Smokey Bear

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/31/21 07:24 PM

I understand about recognizing conservation efforts, trophy animals, and the work that goes along with maximizing and maintaining exceptional habitat and wildlife on a piece of property. Unfortunately I also have seen firsthand unwanted side effects from publicity of success. TP&W hauls around a nice mounted three year old called the sticker buck we had planned on letting mature to six in their wall of shame trailer. Most likely some of y’all have seen it. It was poached where I hunt and was the result of unwanted public attention. That and other incidents have shaped my thinking somewhat. Those of us that take part give any trophy taken it’s due reverence.
TLK-congrats, that is a beauty!
Posted By: DocHorton

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/31/21 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by Hudbone
If it’s about gaining obscure notoriety from people you don’t know, book it. If you want special notoriety from those who know you, don’t book it.


This is an absolutely idiotic statement.
Posted By: Hudbone

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/31/21 08:59 PM

Usins ignorant idiots come in the back door and we don’t scoop up gubment handouts.
Posted By: DocHorton

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/31/21 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by Hudbone
Usins ignorant idiots come in the back door and we don’t scoop up gubment handouts.


roflmao rofl
Posted By: DocHorton

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/31/21 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie


There are no Texas typicals in the top 20. None. Starting at #19 the scores drop below 200. Thus, there has never been a Texas typical over 200 entered. Yet some would have us believe that bucks that would crack the top 20 ever recorded are taken with regularity here in Texas - just not officially scored and entered. Yeah, OK. Whatever.

No doubt some big deer are taken every year that are not officially scored or entered. But what there is absolutely no doubt about is that guys come on internet forums and call deer 200” or 190” or 180” deer (or whatever) - which if they were actually officially scored would score much less. In other words, talk is common and talk is cheap.


Makes sense. I have a hard time believing there are deer killed with regularity in Texas (several per year) and not once has there ever been one put into B&C over 200", but maybe it happens a lot....
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/31/21 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by freerange
Originally Posted by HuntnFly67
Originally Posted by Wilhunt
Huntfly67 we seem to have got away from your original post. blush


No flush! Definitely got in the weeds pretty fast.

For the most part, I was enjoying the responses.

I am 100% on the fence as to whether or not I would want something in the book. My answer is, "it depends". On my land (leased or owned), I am inclined towards "No"; especially for 'just' a whitetail. For a safari or outfitter hunt, I think it'd be a nice nod the guide and some good advertising for their outfit. I have been on several ranches that getting a slam of WT, MD, and pronghorn is an annual occurrence, but they don't mess with it.

Because my answer is not an absolute YES, that to me, indicates that having an animal in 'the book' indicates it is not an 'ego thing' for me. It is more about paying homage to the animal.


Huntfly67, im not doubting that you have "been on several ranches that getting a Texas Slam is an annual occurrence". But I am very impressed. I know a thing or two about Texas Slams and Im aware of a couple ranches that have done all 3 species and Im not totally surprised there are more. I do think it would have to be a fairly rare event to even have all 3 of that quality on the same property much less have someone kill them. And then for you to of been on those places, once again not doubting, but impressed. I want to be your friend.



Just about every big chunk of the previous XIT has a shot , with further north the better. Now more then ever. TBGA is 130/145/70

Before we traded out a bunch of land my ranch would do it almost every year, assuming we got the pronghorn tags

If my ranch was further south and I could stay mad at pronghorn, I could hit GS every year between my leases and ranch with out a doubt. I have to much crop land now to solely do it
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/31/21 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by DocHorton
Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie


There are no Texas typicals in the top 20. None. Starting at #19 the scores drop below 200. Thus, there has never been a Texas typical over 200 entered. Yet some would have us believe that bucks that would crack the top 20 ever recorded are taken with regularity here in Texas - just not officially scored and entered. Yeah, OK. Whatever.

No doubt some big deer are taken every year that are not officially scored or entered. But what there is absolutely no doubt about is that guys come on internet forums and call deer 200” or 190” or 180” deer (or whatever) - which if they were actually officially scored would score much less. In other words, talk is common and talk is cheap.


Makes sense. I have a hard time believing there are deer killed with regularity in Texas (several per year) and not once has there ever been one put into B&C over 200", but maybe it happens a lot....


You would until you find alot of ranches or leases won't let you. A pasture of old lease would get a few entered into contests and ranch name didn't exist.

You want high probability of loosing a lease post up a big deer.

I bet there are 2x more net deer killed then entered. Net 200 is rare any where And highly sought after by those willing to pay Un-Godly amounts so I doubt many would posts or enter
Posted By: Hudbone

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/31/21 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by DocHorton
Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie


There are no Texas typicals in the top 20. None. Starting at #19 the scores drop below 200. Thus, there has never been a Texas typical over 200 entered. Yet some would have us believe that bucks that would crack the top 20 ever recorded are taken with regularity here in Texas - just not officially scored and entered. Yeah, OK. Whatever.

No doubt some big deer are taken every year that are not officially scored or entered. But what there is absolutely no doubt about is that guys come on internet forums and call deer 200” or 190” or 180” deer (or whatever) - which if they were actually officially scored would score much less. In other words, talk is common and talk is cheap.


Makes sense. I have a hard time believing there are deer killed with regularity in Texas (several per year) and not once has there ever been one put into B&C over 200", but maybe it happens a lot....


Very, very few if ever.
Posted By: DocHorton

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/31/21 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by Hudbone
Originally Posted by DocHorton
Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie


There are no Texas typicals in the top 20. None. Starting at #19 the scores drop below 200. Thus, there has never been a Texas typical over 200 entered. Yet some would have us believe that bucks that would crack the top 20 ever recorded are taken with regularity here in Texas - just not officially scored and entered. Yeah, OK. Whatever.

No doubt some big deer are taken every year that are not officially scored or entered. But what there is absolutely no doubt about is that guys come on internet forums and call deer 200” or 190” or 180” deer (or whatever) - which if they were actually officially scored would score much less. In other words, talk is common and talk is cheap.


Makes sense. I have a hard time believing there are deer killed with regularity in Texas (several per year) and not once has there ever been one put into B&C over 200", but maybe it happens a lot....


Very, very few if ever.


Back on track.....Lol.

That's what I believe as well and agree with you, and I think the point NP was trying to make is that most of the talk of typical 200" net deer is just that....mostly talk.

Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/31/21 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by DocHorton
Originally Posted by Hudbone
Originally Posted by DocHorton
Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie


There are no Texas typicals in the top 20. None. Starting at #19 the scores drop below 200. Thus, there has never been a Texas typical over 200 entered. Yet some would have us believe that bucks that would crack the top 20 ever recorded are taken with regularity here in Texas - just not officially scored and entered. Yeah, OK. Whatever.

No doubt some big deer are taken every year that are not officially scored or entered. But what there is absolutely no doubt about is that guys come on internet forums and call deer 200” or 190” or 180” deer (or whatever) - which if they were actually officially scored would score much less. In other words, talk is common and talk is cheap.


Makes sense. I have a hard time believing there are deer killed with regularity in Texas (several per year) and not once has there ever been one put into B&C over 200", but maybe it happens a lot....


Very, very few if ever.


Back on track.....Lol.

That's what I believe as well, and I think the point NP was trying to make is that most of the talk of typical 200" net deer is just that....mostly talk.



His point started with net book deer then jumped up to 40” above book. It’s really not much of a point. Out side that he had to go extreme to prove rarity, Guys that hunt in areas that can produce a net 200” typical aren't going to talk about it. Regardless most talk gross any way just because deductions are dumb, and no desire Or can't enter them


I know of a couple TX and Okla gross 200” LF deer.
Posted By: DocHorton

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/31/21 09:38 PM

At any rate....if I killed a B&C buck I would enter it for the obscure notoriety from people I don't know. grin Also, would be cool to have the certificate or plaque to go with the mount...but that's just me. I don't care either way what others do.
Posted By: DocHorton

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/31/21 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by DocHorton
Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie


There are no Texas typicals in the top 20. None. Starting at #19 the scores drop below 200. Thus, there has never been a Texas typical over 200 entered. Yet some would have us believe that bucks that would crack the top 20 ever recorded are taken with regularity here in Texas - just not officially scored and entered. Yeah, OK. Whatever.

No doubt some big deer are taken every year that are not officially scored or entered. But what there is absolutely no doubt about is that guys come on internet forums and call deer 200” or 190” or 180” deer (or whatever) - which if they were actually officially scored would score much less. In other words, talk is common and talk is cheap.


Makes sense. I have a hard time believing there are deer killed with regularity in Texas (several per year) and not once has there ever been one put into B&C over 200", but maybe it happens a lot....


You would until you find alot of ranches or leases won't let you. A pasture of old lease would get a few entered into contests and ranch name didn't exist.

You want high probability of loosing a lease post up a big deer.

I bet there are 2x more net deer killed then entered. Net 200 is rare any where And highly sought after by those willing to pay Un-Godly amounts so I doubt many would posts or enter


Makes sense as well. I'm sure there's some that don't want to advertise what they have....
Posted By: freerange

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/31/21 10:14 PM

I love it that somes on here can seemingly cast stones at each other and then seemingly kiss and make up. Im too sensitive for that, invariably if a rock gets thrown at me I will have a black eye forever.
Now what was the topic.....
Posted By: tlk

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/31/21 10:15 PM

Let me ask this - for all of you who say you do not care about anyone knowing about the trophy you shot and it is just all about honoring the animal and the hunt.

Then why do the vast majority of hunters who kill a trophy buck have them mounted ?? They also take pictures of themselves with the deer even if they do not put it in the book. So why mount a buck and take pictures for people to see when they come to your home or office?

Truth is if most of us hunters take a buck of a lifetime we enjoy sharing it with others - it takes a ton of effort, determination, etc. to find and hunt a trophy buck and we should be proud of it and showing it to others when we are successful. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with doing so IMO
Posted By: freerange

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/31/21 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by freerange
Originally Posted by HuntnFly67
Originally Posted by Wilhunt
Huntfly67 we seem to have got away from your original post. blush


No flush! Definitely got in the weeds pretty fast.

For the most part, I was enjoying the responses.

I am 100% on the fence as to whether or not I would want something in the book. My answer is, "it depends". On my land (leased or owned), I am inclined towards "No"; especially for 'just' a whitetail. For a safari or outfitter hunt, I think it'd be a nice nod the guide and some good advertising for their outfit. I have been on several ranches that getting a slam of WT, MD, and pronghorn is an annual occurrence, but they don't mess with it.

Because my answer is not an absolute YES, that to me, indicates that having an animal in 'the book' indicates it is not an 'ego thing' for me. It is more about paying homage to the animal.


Huntfly67, im not doubting that you have "been on several ranches that getting a Texas Slam is an annual occurrence". But I am very impressed. I know a thing or two about Texas Slams and Im aware of a couple ranches that have done all 3 species and Im not totally surprised there are more. I do think it would have to be a fairly rare event to even have all 3 of that quality on the same property much less have someone kill them. And then for you to of been on those places, once again not doubting, but impressed. I want to be your friend.



Just about every big chunk of the previous XIT has a shot , with further north the better. Now more then ever. TBGA is 130/145/70

Before we traded out a bunch of land my ranch would do it almost every year, assuming we got the pronghorn tags

If my ranch was further south and I could stay mad at pronghorn, I could hit GS every year between my leases and ranch with out a doubt. I have to much crop land now to solely do it

I guess I didnt realize all three species over lapped that much and then you probably need big country. I think the old XIT is what my friend has so much of leased.
Posted By: Creekrunner

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/31/21 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by freerange
I love it that somes on here can seemingly cast stones at each other and then seemingly kiss and make up. Im too sensitive for that, invariably if a rock gets thrown at me I will have a black eye forever.
Now what was the topic.....


Obviously a Scot...or Square-head...like me! Never forget! (Not exactly what the Good Lord instructs, but very, very hard to break. ) Watch "The Quiet Man" and call me in the morning. (Yes, it's Irish in theme, but basically the same message. grin )
Posted By: BigfootWallace

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/31/21 10:40 PM

For some deer hunting is not about showing off a trophy or honoring the animal or any of the other mumbo jumbo. It's about enjoying the woods. I hunt every single day of deer season and wouldn't trade that for any record. The record books are meaningless to me because anyone can stroke a big check and go shoot a huge buck. I know a guy who shoots a giant every single year somewhere and probably doesn't hunt 4 days the whole season.
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/31/21 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by freerange


I guess I didnt realize all three species over lapped that much and then you probably need big country. I think the old XIT is what my friend has so much of leased.


20 years ago it would of been 2 out 3 for most ranches with WT being the issue. But WT have really expanded up there, now they are found throughout.

Transpecos is probably similar now also. I know my MD lease use to have pronghorn but no WT, now it has WT with Pronghorn having moved further west. So I'm sure that over lap is there in TP area.

Cool honor regardless, especially if you get to do from same ranch.

Posted By: Wilhunt

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/31/21 11:07 PM

We hunt a low fence lease and don't spend a ton of money on it. A few years back my brother shot a 15 point buck there. All very excited for him and if anyone tried to give it a score I don't remember what it was . He decided to take it to a processor / taxidermist near the small community where we hunt. The processor was impressed and gave us a look with the expression" do you know what you have here". Later one of the hunters went to a local store and the deer was being discussed by others. The next day the landowner and a friend of his came to the lease and wanted to know about the big deer my brother had shot. That was all fine and well, but if we kill another I think we will take it to the next town where the subject won't be discussed by so many.
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 08/31/21 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by tlk
Let me ask this - for all of you who say you do not care about anyone knowing about the trophy you shot and it is just all about honoring the animal and the hunt.

Then why do the vast majority of hunters who kill a trophy buck have them mounted ?? They also take pictures of themselves with the deer even if they do not put it in the book. So why mount a buck and take pictures for people to see when they come to your home or office?

Truth is if most of us hunters take a buck of a lifetime we enjoy sharing it with others - it takes a ton of effort, determination, etc. to find and hunt a trophy buck and we should be proud of it and showing it to others when we are successful. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with doing so IMO


Every mount on my wall correlates to a remembrance of a special hunt, with that said I have a pile of cut horns(20 +pairs) that out score a certain buck on my wall by as much as 40”, and I more proud of the mounted smaller buck. Pretty much same with mule deer, as my biggest Mule deer isn't mounted. With that said id sale a mount to go on more hunts if I had to.

sharing a deer with you friends isn't exactly paying money to get your name in a book or plaque your wall.

If you want to pay to be published or enter a contest, have at it, your deer, your hunt, your experience, relish your way. Same with leases or hunts.

Big deer aren't made over night and some take a lot of pride in managing them, that's cool too.
Posted By: DocHorton

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 09/01/21 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by DocHorton
Originally Posted by Hudbone
If it’s about gaining obscure notoriety from people you don’t know, book it. If you want special notoriety from those who know you, don’t book it.


This is an absolutely idiotic statement.


Reading this again and my apologies for the rude comment, Hud. I admit it was uncalled for.
Posted By: freerange

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 09/01/21 12:41 AM

Originally Posted by DocHorton
Originally Posted by DocHorton
Originally Posted by Hudbone
If it’s about gaining obscure notoriety from people you don’t know, book it. If you want special notoriety from those who know you, don’t book it.


This is an absolutely idiotic statement.


Reading this again and my apologies for the rude comment, Hud. I admit it was uncalled for.

I had to read Huds comment multiple times and I THINK I understand it. Hud thinks on a different level and types in a different language.
Posted By: tlk

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 09/01/21 01:28 AM

Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by tlk
Let me ask this - for all of you who say you do not care about anyone knowing about the trophy you shot and it is just all about honoring the animal and the hunt.

Then why do the vast majority of hunters who kill a trophy buck have them mounted ?? They also take pictures of themselves with the deer even if they do not put it in the book. So why mount a buck and take pictures for people to see when they come to your home or office?

Truth is if most of us hunters take a buck of a lifetime we enjoy sharing it with others - it takes a ton of effort, determination, etc. to find and hunt a trophy buck and we should be proud of it and showing it to others when we are successful. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with doing so IMO


Every mount on my wall correlates to a remembrance of a special hunt, with that said I have a pile of cut horns(20 +pairs) that out score a certain buck on my wall by as much as 40”, and I more proud of the mounted smaller buck. Pretty much same with mule deer, as my biggest Mule deer isn't mounted. With that said id sale a mount to go on more hunts if I had to.

sharing a deer with you friends isn't exactly paying money to get your name in a book or plaque your wall.

If you want to pay to be published or enter a contest, have at it, your deer, your hunt, your experience, relish your way. Same with leases or hunts.

Big deer aren't made over night and some take a lot of pride in managing them, that's cool too.



Not going to get into a debate on this but I just have one other question - tons of people (many who are on this thread) have posted pictures of their deer and their mounts. They are not sharing it with family or friends - they are sharing it with a huge body of mostly unknown people. There are thousands of people on this forum who look at all the deer posted here. What is the difference in that and having a deer be seen in a contest or book?
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 09/01/21 01:54 AM

Originally Posted by tlk
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by tlk
Let me ask this - for all of you who say you do not care about anyone knowing about the trophy you shot and it is just all about honoring the animal and the hunt.

Then why do the vast majority of hunters who kill a trophy buck have them mounted ?? They also take pictures of themselves with the deer even if they do not put it in the book. So why mount a buck and take pictures for people to see when they come to your home or office?

Truth is if most of us hunters take a buck of a lifetime we enjoy sharing it with others - it takes a ton of effort, determination, etc. to find and hunt a trophy buck and we should be proud of it and showing it to others when we are successful. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with doing so IMO


Every mount on my wall correlates to a remembrance of a special hunt, with that said I have a pile of cut horns(20 +pairs) that out score a certain buck on my wall by as much as 40”, and I more proud of the mounted smaller buck. Pretty much same with mule deer, as my biggest Mule deer isn't mounted. With that said id sale a mount to go on more hunts if I had to.

sharing a deer with you friends isn't exactly paying money to get your name in a book or plaque your wall.

If you want to pay to be published or enter a contest, have at it, your deer, your hunt, your experience, relish your way. Same with leases or hunts.

Big deer aren't made over night and some take a lot of pride in managing them, that's cool too.



Not going to get into a debate on this but I just have one other question - tons of people (many who are on this thread) have posted pictures of their deer and their mounts. They are not sharing it with family or friends - they are sharing it with a huge body of mostly unknown people. What is the difference in that and having a deer be seen in a contest or book?


No that's a good point,

My opinion revolves around two things..A THF post might get 700 views, and then buried. It's actually a pretty small community, and a lot of us know each other at least in passing. Again It's a real small community. Book is forever, and not near of a close setting.

How many posted real score or even a score? How many actually got entered into a book? There have been several net posted over last 10 years, that had a lower score given and also never entered into a book or contest.


Obviously you and I look at this entirely differently. My view is the majority of BC book entries here recently where looking to enter their name. That is vastly different approach then most of us on this forum looking to share with each other.
Posted By: DonPablo

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 09/01/21 03:28 AM

I have entered a few animals in the TBBR (Texas Bowhunting and Bowfishing Records) for a couple reasons. 1) To try and raise awareness of the records system and 2) For [censored] and giggles. I have the #2 mule deer doe in there. Thinking about that makes me laugh every time. rofl

I shot a black bear in Idaho that I’m pretty sure scores P&Y but never tried to enter it. I took a walking shot that I shouldn’t have and had to get a blood trailing dog take me to him and deliver a 2nd arrow.
Posted By: ILUVBIGBUCKS

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 09/01/21 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by Hudbone
Usins ignorant idiots come in the back door and we don’t scoop up gubment handouts.

roflmao chicken

I can't stop laughing.............
Posted By: ILUVBIGBUCKS

Re: "Book" Animals - enter them or not? - 09/01/21 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown


His point started with net book deer then jumped up to 40” above book. It’s really not much of a point. Out side that he had to go extreme to prove rarity, Guys that hunt in areas that can produce a net 200” typical aren't going to talk about it. Regardless most talk gross any way just because deductions are dumb, and no desire Or can't enter them


I know of a couple TX and Okla gross 200” LF deer.

Amen compadre!!!

I know where there is one right now and they may not even kill him this year.
He is without a doubt all over 200" and as slick a typical as you will find.
Low fence and 110% completely legit.

As you stated before, they are out there and they are killed. I don't understand how some of the guys on here don't get that they simply are not advertised or put in any damn book or contest. smh

Hell, a 190" typical was killed not 15 miles from my place last year in an area nobody would have thought could produce a deer like that. He was 5.5 years old
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