6.5CM or 243 for young hunters?

My daughters (8yo and 11yo) have spent a bunch of time with me in the woods hunting but this year I want to give them a chance to pull the trigger on a white tail. I am going to get them a compact rifle as they are not comfortable using my AR and bolt gun. I have read lots of articles about introducing young hunters with a 6.5cm as opposed to the old standard youth rifle in .243

What are your thoughts? Does anyone have any experience with a 6.5 youth sized rifle? I don't want the fear of kick to make them not want to shoot or to close their eyes and make bad shots anticipating the kick.

Welcome. You can private message Kyle about his youth sized 6.5.

Are you talking AR-15? With an adjustable stock, I'm not sure why it would be uncomfortable to them. If fear of recoil is an issue, get a compact .223 bolt gun and let them shoot it a bunch, then move them to the 6.5.

The difference in recoil between .243 and 6.5 will be negligible. Just start them with a lighter load 100/120gr on the 6.5 and it should be fine. With heavier loads like the 130-143 class, the 6.5 is a more versatile weapon going forward.

You can pick any rifle that you think they may be comfortable with and then a caliber. 6.5, .243, 7mm-08, etc all can have less recoil than the larger calibers. You can also look into a reduced recoil load that will make the recoil of(for example) a .270 feel like a .243. You can get the reduced recoil loads for .243 or 7mm-08 or a lot of other calibers. That way you have a caliber they can grow into.

Get them a 17 hmr to practice with then let them use your rifle to hunt. In the excitement they won't even notice the recoil of high power. My kids practiced with a 17 then hunting day they shot a 30.06. When they fired I asked if that hurt, they asked 'did what hurt?' Gave them a little more room for error with the big round.

I think the issue they have with the ar is really just the pistol grip. They are much more comfortable shooting their 10/22 with a regular stock so that is what was making me lean toward getting them a more traditional rifle to use. I thought about the 223 bolt gun as well and may head that route now that you can find 223 hunting loads and not just 55gr green tip in stores.

The potential versatility of the 6.5 was the big draw as I started thinking about getting them one. Given that this year all of their shots will be in the 120yd and under range on smaller east Texas deer that may not always be the case. So it would be nice to be able to put a heavier gr in and let them have a little more knock down power.

And all of this being said we may be limited by what is available in the stores next week when we go get the rifle so we will see I suppose.

Only issue with this is length of pull. They can't get around my bolt gun without just not shouldering it and it is a 300wm so even in an excited state I believe they would feel every bit of it.

Also thank you all for the welcomes. I am glad to be here and glad for the knowledge a community like this has to offer

The .260 is another option.

I do not think the 6.5 CM is some kind of wonder cartridge like alot of others, but the ones I have shot have been extremely mild in recoil and they hit harder than a .243. I honestly don't think there is any difference in recoil.



If i was going to outfit a young/new shooter with a whitetail rig they can use for the forseeable future, I would have no issues getting them a 6.5 CM. My kids all got 7mm-08's with reduced recoil loads starting out but the 6.5 kicks less than those and delivers close to the same performance.

6.5 would probably work well.
I still have my first deer rifle, a Savage 243 and prefer it over all my other hunting guns. The Winchester Silver Ballistic tips work very well.

In the times we are in, I would get them whatever rifle fit them well that was available in .243, 6.5, .260, 7mm-08, etc. My decision would be driven by the availability of the rifle and ammunition/components(depending upon whether you will shoot factory ammo or reloads). And if I already owned ammo or components for one of these calibers, that would most likely be my choice.

I prefer to start small and work up. Shot placement is much more important to me than the caliber or gun used. A 223 with correct shot placement is much better than a 30-06 gut shot.

I started hunting with a 270 had no reservations about it had shot it before many times etc.

My kids are smaller yet, but my nephews are about the same age I started and my brother started, they want nothing to do with a 270 and required some persuasion to shoot their 243. All kids are different. I would have taken a kick from a mule in the nuts and the recoil of a 458 to shoot my first deer, not all folks are the same.

Talked my wife into letting me get my daughter a Tikka CTR 6.5CM. Also have a Nomad can on the way. She hasn't shot it yet, but I have. I am sure she will like it once/if she gets a chance.

My daughter is 8 and is a hand with her moms creedmoor.

Spend money on great electronic ear muffs.

ChootEm, where are you located?

I had a howa mini bolt action 6.5 grendel. I liked it, but shot my creedmoor more. The 6.5 grendel might be a good option, and when ammo is available there is pretty good factory ammo.

Whatever rifle and caliber you choose, be sure the kids have the best available hearing protection. The noise, to them, can be worse than the recoil. I saw that with a neighbor’s daughters.

I think you all are on track with what I am thinking. I believe that 6.5 being the "it" cartridge right now can be discounted to some degree but I have seen more of it on the shelves of my local sporting goods and gun stores so the availability is a nice thing to have. I definitely want it all to be the best experience that it can be for them so they develop the love of the sport.




I am in Hunt county and have land right behind the house that the girls will probably spend most of their time this year hunting but I also have a lease in Cumby that I took a nice 9 point last year that we will hunt as well. Also we put in for a draw to hunt the Cooper public land with a rifle. I would be stoked if either of the girls get that draw as I bow hunt an area up there now and think they would have a great chance at a nice deer with a rifle.

WELCOME to our forum. It is great. Threads like this are a great example. Almost all good info on here so far so no need for me to get specific.
I would highly agree with you to do all you can to try and keep them from a bad experience with recoil. How to do that can vary, but its important to get them comfortable shooting without recoil worries.

Let's see what the numbers say...

Chuck Hawks lists the recoil energy for the .243 with a 100-grain bullet being 7.7 ft-lbs. The 6.5 Creedmoor firing a 140-grain bullet produces 11.6 ft-lbs of energy. Quite a difference with roughly 50% more "kick" with the Creedmoor. Just for sake of further comparison, a 130-grain bullet fired from a .270 rifle carries 12.3 ft-lbs of recoil energy.

Most folks agree it takes at least 1000 ft-lbs of energy to safely and ethically kill a whitetail.

A 100-grain .243 carries that much energy out to roughly 325 yards, while a 143-grain 6.5 Creedmoor carries that out to roughly 700 yards.

The choice of course is yours based on the expected shot distance and shooting comfort for your girls. Personally, I own two, .243 rifles and a 6.5 Creedmoor and consider the .243 a far more comfortable shooting rifle. Still plenty of energy for both hogs and deer within the accepted range.

Good luck this season to both you and your girls.

One if the bests investment i’ve made for my daughter is a tripod with a vise on it. Reduces recoil and really builds confidence. The aluminum bog pod death grip is what I got her

Ah, a little too far away. If you were close I was going to invite you and your kids to come shoot a 6.5 to get some real world insight before you went out and bought one.

.243 and a silencer.

I know that when ammo got hard to find, there was all kinds of 6.5 on the shelves at Academy and no .243, .270, 5.56. 7.62, etc.

6.5 with a 100 grain Barnes TTSX provides more consistent terminal performance than a 243 even with comparable bullets.

The last thing a new hunter needs is a wounded animal. Recoil is similar.

I worked up that load for kids and now use it myself occasionally because it works so well and is so pleasant.

Couple cell phone videos, but they show the terminal performance of the lightweight Barnes TTSX's in action. They work well with mild recoil.

Here is one of my nephews using the 100 TTSX in a .260.



A .308 with a 130 TTSX is a step up in recoil, but is a mild .308 load and now is the load I use most of the time on pigs and deer.

Here is my wife using the .308 130 TTSX.

My first son I bough him a .243 shooting the Barnes TTSX 80 g bullets. My 2nd son I bought him a 6.5 creedmoor shooting Hornady ELD-X 143g bullets. Both started shooting/hunting when they were 8 yo. If I were to do it again, i would have bought them both 6.5 Creedmoors if only considering between the two calibers. Granted the 6.5 is a Browning X-bolt with a stock break on it, but undoubtedly it is a more comfortable rifle with less perceived recoil than our unbreaked .243. Sure, the break has something to do with that. The noise is a non issue as they have never fired it without great hearing protection.

How so?

I test shoot pigs with a load combination several times with a variety of shot placements before letting the kids use them. Comparing like to like, .243 bullets do not penetrate as consistently and do not exit as consistently and do not consistently provide the DRT results as the same bullet in .264, that is with Barnes TTSX’s and Partitions. Can they, yes, but not as consistently as the small step up to .264 cal with the 100 TTSX. Partitions are the other bullet at the top of the list to use in a .243 from my first hand use. Can it work well? Absolutely, but again it can be inconsistent on the big pigs. What I observed is moving up to around 100 grains in .243 bullets helps, but the heavy bullets need faster twist barrels than the old R700 had. I ended up selling it, and now use a .223 for them to practice and then have them shoot the .260 100 gr combo to make sure they are comfortable.

The only Barnes bullet I have ever recovered was an 80 TTSX from a large boar hog. To the bullet’s credit, it penetrated through both shoulders and paralyzed the hog, but it was still very alive. Similar shot placement with the same bullet, but in a 100 grain TTSX from the .260 exits consistently and it is lights out.

Last year, a sounder of pigs came in while one of my nephews was with me. I tried to focus him on waiting to have one totally clear with no pig behind it. He did as taught and aimed for the base of the ear and that pig dropped like a rock. However, there was a smaller pig behind it shoulder to shoulder. The 100 TTSX went through the skull of the first pig, and also through the skull of the second pig.

Where I mainly hunt has thick thorn brush and DRT can save an unpleasant outcome for everyone. We do not use heart/lung shots, but high shoulder, point of shoulder, or brain.

My silencer will be free from jail next month so I do plan on threading the barrel of whatever gun they get.

That will make a huge difference. With that in mind, I'd go 6.5 CM or 260 Rem with a full power 140'ish load. If they don't like the recoil, and there won't be much, you can always drop down to a 120. I've got a Tikka CTR in 260 and running a suppressor on it and my medium hot handloads gives me recoil about like an un-braked (or un-suppressed) 223.

i really like the ruger ranch in 6.5 grendel. Nice compact gun, and very little recoil. Already threaded.

I don't know what your two girls have shot so far but my advice is to start them out very small and work them up so as not to develop bad habits from not only the sound but recoil.
Start them out at the range on .22 and move them up to .22mag or 17hmr and then on to a small centerfire like a 222 or 223.....or even a hornet if you can. Then, once you see they handle it well move them up to a 243 with light bullets and graduate them up to 100gr bullets from there. Hell, an 80gr bullet will kill any deer in this state when put through their pump room!

As far as 243 vs 6.5 needmore, that is your call. I'll say this, I have a couple 243s and one of them has probably killed more deer & hogs than all the other rifles in my arsenal combined! I shoot handloaded 100gr sierra boat tail bullets and NO deer stands a chance out to 300 yards if I have a solid rest! Last, I've killed WTs down south as big as 185lbs dressed and that one was rutted down so he would have been over 200 before the rut. He made it about 50-60 yards with one through his ribs. I've also seen my son pile large bodied bucks up in their tracks with mid to high frontal shoulder shots with that same gun and round through it.

I’m 13, and shoot a 6.5 creedmoor. I have a muzzle break on it, just the normal one that comes from the factory. I hardly notice the kick at all. I shoot the 143 eldx bullet and have good success with it so far. I do not think the 6.5 is the end all be all, but it is a really good youth rifle with enough bullet to take some larger game. I would recommend that over the 243 because it’s a bigger caliber and has hardly any recoil.

Wow, I just want to take a second and recognize this post. You sir, at the age of 13, communicated a point, backed it up, and provided good context. Very well done!

To the rest of our membership, let's not forget that we have young men who read our content, intake our opinions, etc.. I think we all too often forget that, at least i do

I was thinking the same thing when I read his post. We have many adult members that can't articulate that well. Keep up the good work, young man!

I just got out proper sentence structured by a 13y old. Well written and articulated Sir.

But there's just no "sizzle" in buying a new rifle that's cambered for a cartridge that's been killing deer for well over 60 years.

Well, except for break/ brake
If you have a break on a firearm there's a problem
If you have a brake, you can reduce recoil ( sometimes)

Benefit of the doubt says, autocorrect got him. He still beats the majority of my posts in error percentages.

Ok Creek....

It's Friday wooo

Excellent contribution.

Thank you for posting.

Good luck this season. 👍

Thanks!

Going to pick up my kid's new 708 today. She's 13. She shoots my long barreled heavy 708 and loves it, she just isn't comfortable moving it around due to its size. This one is lighter and shorter. I'll have her practicing with 100gr bullets to start, then she'll hunt with 140's and never know the difference.

My two girls are now 15 and 11. They shoot my 6.5 very well and recoil doesn’t bother them.
(That’s the main battle with kids and new shooters)
If they are scared of it, they won’t want to shoot it.
Plus it has more meat than a .243 and gives them more options.


Ain’t nothing wrong with a .243 though for sure.

My son started with .243 at 8 Still shoots .243.at 17. It really is all about shot placement.

When he started shooting I put an empty cartridge in after his 3rd shot. No flinch which made me happy.

I have shot his .243 on hogs and deer. Easy to shoot.

Kudos to the young man, and I could not agree more with his observations.

It has nothing to do with sizzle. One has a better ROI than the other. FTR I own both.

I have a youth Tikka 6.5 Creedmoor in my vault. It is for my cousin's son. It came with spacers to let the stock get longer as the boy needs it to. All the way up to full length, grown men shoot. We will be starting him off with 123 gr bullets to keep the recoil down. As time progresses and he wants more options, we can switch over to 140 gr, 143 gr and 147 gr. It's a plus thousand yard rifle if he becomes interested in such things later on. I am no .243 hater. They are a very potent varmint cartridge, and just marginal as a whitetail cartridge in my opinion. The .243, with the twist rate most come with will probably only stabilize up to 100 or 105 gr bullets. So, there is more limitations on the factory .243 rifle than the factory 6.5 Creedmoor rifle. The 6.5 Creedmoor can be loaded down to soften recoil, and so can the .243. But the 6.5 Creedmoor rifle can also be loaded up for ballistic performance that the. 243 cannot match.

.257 Roberts. Just to be contrary.

.243

6.5 Creedmoor with good ear plugs or a silencer.

Nothing wrong with either. Either one will work just fine for hunting if you do your part. My 3 oldest kids all started (and still hunt with) 243's and have never had a problem killing deer or pigs.

With a suppressor, it will kick like an air rifle. This is what I would do. I have a 6.8 SPC Ruger 77 threaded and there is almost zero recoil.

Wish I had pictures, but I got a new phone. I'm too lazy to drag out the hard drive.

Anyway, last year as part of a project for one of my master's class I had to do something for community service. I decided to turn it into introducing kid's to hunting and donating all the does they killed to Hunter's for the Hungry. Anyway, as part of that my 6 year old and 8 year old killed their 1st deer. I think there were 3 other first time hunter's that donated deer as well with a host of other kids. A total of 19 deer donated.

I built a .22lr upper on an AR platform specifically to teach kids how to shoot and get them comfortable with both a rifle and a scope. As BOBO stated, the .22lr AR was mounted in a BOG Pod that held the gun for them. Once adjusted at the right height they can still adjust elevation and windage, but if they take their hands off the rifle it doesn't move. Once they were comfortable knocking caps off the tops of water bottles and soda bottles at 20-50 yards we moved on to the bigger rifle.

I have a 6.5 Creedmoor built on an AR10 platform. The rifle looks identical to them as the .22lr. I suppressed it to reduce noise as well as recoil. Worked like a champ. They never missed a beat and were minute of a deer at about any distance we shot from the very 1st shot. Each of my kids killed their 1st deer on their 1st shot. I shoot 129sst's thru the gun it it flat smokes deer at 100 yards and in.

The point of my rambling is about any low recoil cartridge will work, but set the kids up for success from the word go. I made shooting water filled jugs and caps fun with the .22lr AR. Anytime they were ready to stop, we stopped. Having the BOG to hold the gun really made a difference and got them comfortable. I also think having the bigger caliber look identical to the .22lr made them comfortable as well. There were a lot of kids there that were nervous about shooting, but once they saw there friends shoot and how comfortable they were it was funny to see them all get competitive and want to shoot as well.

Another think I did was have red dots on both guns as well as my bow blinds were set up to hold my kids and myself. The deer are always comfortable on the opposite side of the feeder from the bow blind which is a chip shot with the gun. So, I chummed or poured out a pile of corn where I wanted the deer for a clean kill for the kids. I got in the blind and had the gun in the BOG pod at the right height for the kids and lined up on the pile. Worked like a champ.

Best of luck to you and your girls.

Pretending a 243 is a marginal whitetail cartridge is, well, pretending. With the right bullets and placement it is a very efficient deer killer, including big mule deer. I've seen our landowner's son kill several big muley bucks with it and a 95g ballistic tip. That being said, I do believe the CM is a much more versatile cartridge with great choices in bullets. At Creedmoor speeds, it's hard to choose a "bad" bullet.

Agree 100%.

My old 243 has killed more deer than any other rifle in my safe, along with a chit ton of pigs and a few exotics. I shoot 95 grain Silver Tips, but my kids shoot 100 grain CoreLocks.

I’m a huge fan of the 80ttsx in 243. All I shot until I shot barrel out and changed it ironically to a 6.5 CM

.243 all day long at the ages of 8, 9, and 10 my son's killed three bucks with his .243 from roughly 80-115 yards, first went 15 yards, second went about 30 yards and the largest 138" 10 point dropped in his tracks. Bullet placement is everything.

Everyone has their favorites, but I'm happy with shooting my Howa in 6.5 Grendel. I can talk about the cartridge's attributes, but they are easily found on the net. I said "shooting" since I haven't taken anything with it yet. The county I hunted in last two years has the antler restriction, keeping me from pulling the trigger. However, I've done research on the cartridge, and it appears well-liked. I can't say it is the best at anything, but for a soft shooting cartridge that can take up to some large North American game cleanly, I offer it as a candidate.

I was really happy with .243, which was my main hunting cartridge, but I wanted to try something new. If I had to pick between .243 or 6.5 creedmoor, I couldn't say because I've never fired a 6.5 creedmoor. Again, I'm on the 6.5 Grendel bandwagon right now, so until something pushes me off....

my two sons 10yo shot a couple deer and javalina with a weatherby vangaurd youth .243 with 100grn bullets this past year. They just shot them thru the middle of the front shoulders, but all deer and javi dropped with no issues. the rifle was a little saucier than the .22lr and .410 the boys had been practicing with as younger kids but they warmed up to it pretty well. they shot several rounds thru it for practice before we hunted. my brother has a .3006 that he loaded down with some i think 120grn bullets, my boys shot it too without much objection. we didn't shoot any deer with it but feel pretty good that the reduced load would have still done the job at reasonable distance.

one thing i had to do with my boys to get them to start adapt to shooting larger calibers is really pay attention to make sure they are shouldering the rifle well. shooting a .22 you don't really have to hold onto very tightly or up against your shoulder very tightly because it just doesn't have any recoil to it. i noticed when my boys started to shoot the shotgun or the larger rifle that they were a little afraid of it because the looser sort of grip that they were using with the .22 jsut didn't work with the larger gun, when teh gun fired it would punch them back in the shoulder...which they didn't like. Once they got over that and paid more attention to really seating it tightly up against their shoulder where the body absorbed the recoil better....they did a lot better

Tikka youth 7-08. Shoot reduced loads and you are good to go and can increase the length of pull and more heavier loads as they grow older.

I have a 6.5 cm and a 243 both bolt guns as well as others and my go to is the 243 my first rifle was a 30-30 I still have and will never get rid of I’m in hunt county as well if they wanted to shoot befor you buy

Some little girls can shoot something like a .270 just fine. Mine, age 11 and 12, can’t handle a center fire rifle of any kind.

I got them a little weatherby 20 gauge auto, little SA-20. 12 year old cried after she shot it, then my 11 year old girl refused. This thing does not kick much, I can hit clays one handed with this gun no problem. It’s a fun little gun.

I would honestly say it has less recoil than any centerfire rifle I have used except for an M4.

I think the AR is where it’s at. If she can’t handle the AR she won’t do well with any other centerfire rifle.

If it is a size/handling issue and you don’t have or don’t want a collapsible stock, put one on there temporarily.

I have a petite daughter. I found a 6.5 CM suppressed to be the trick. She would always be a few inches off target until we suppressed it,. The bullet is not much smaller than the .270 .
Nothing wrong with a 243 but I feel the 6.5 has a wider range of use with more knock down so if buying brand new go for more versatile
Only downside a little heavy, i do carry it to the blind for here as its 8+ pounds, 24 barrel.

I am also in Hunt County my experience is a mature buck in our County will weigh in the 190s . A close friend of mine Tom Cole has used a custom built 2.43 for the last 25 years that I know of back in the 90s he killed a non typical that scored over 200 inches he takes a mule deer almost every year. He swears by his 2.43 I recently had an ar 2.43 built it is truly a lifetime fire arm no need for larger than the little 6mm my other go to is my 25-06 I just love it it does have little more recoil . The photo is of a hunt county buck 200 pounder

I would get the one I could find the most ammo for locally and that fit them good.

6.5 CM is the more capable of the two cartridges. Those that have shot many deer with one know a .243 will kill any whitetail or mule deer that walks. For a kid just starting out, the long range target capabilities of the 6.5 cm is not something a novice can make use of. For a little fellow, not knowing anything about your kids, of the two cartridges you mentioned, I would recommend a .243. Felt recoil for a child vs an adult is not the same. From what I have witnessed, once a flinch developes, it is something that will hinder the shooter well into the future when it comes to staying in the gun through the shot if they are afraid of the gun hurting them.

Introducing young ones of that age I would err on the soft side. BUT, if the 6.5 CM factory soft loads are as soft as the .243 then I would go with the more versatile 6.5. The Grendel is also a really good option I would seriously look at. I would also recommend getting into reloading if you are not already….not just for the versatility but also as more father/daughters time. I firmly believe that loading ones own makes them a better shooter because they have gained a better working knowledge of their cartridges.

I went through this same decision making process last year when selecting a rifle for my then 8 year old. I went with a Savage Axis XP Youth model chambered in 6.5 CM and it has been perfect for him. We are running the 120gr Sig Elite Match Grade rounds, primarily because that was all I could get my hands on at the time. Recoil has not been an issue at all, I echo what others have said about good hearing protection. I like the Walker Razor Electronic muffs so that he can still hear me talking to him in the blind pre-shot.

Have had a 243 for over 20 years. I have a lot of various guns/cartridges to choose from, for several years i've grabbed the 243 to go hunt deer. Bought a Ruger American Predator in
6.5 Grendel from a member on here a couple years ago, got to hunt with it for the first time this year. Very impressed with it. 4 shots, one deer and three hogs. .Don't have a 6.5cm, if
i want a little more thump than the 243 i'll grab a 25-06.

People who say the .243 is marginal for deer, don't realize how long the .243 has been around and taking deer, more than likely longer than many of them have been on this earth.
If you can't hit a paper plate at 100 yards with a .243, then a larger caliber won't do you much good either.

I have both calibers in rifles that I have children use on youth hunts. Both work very well on whitetail and pigs. I would choose which ever you like the most. I would not use either caliber on larger game such as Nilgai or elk.