Texas Hunting Forum

Arizona Game Cam Ban

Posted By: dogcatcher

Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/05/21 07:54 PM

https://www.azcentral.com/story/new...o-longer-allow-trail-cameras/5353679001/

Quote
Arizona Game and Fish Department hopes new camera ban will ensure fair chase
Michael Donohue
Arizona Republic

Zoe Fullem, community science manager for Sky Island Alliance, begins to remove a trail camera being used for the alliance's Border Wildlife study.
Arizonans have been placing trail cameras in hunting areas and watering holes for years, using the stored imagery to aid in their hunting activities.

Now, Arizonans will have one last season to enjoy their trail cameras.

On June 11, 2021, the Arizona Game and Fish Department Commission voted unanimously to ban trail cameras "for the purpose of taking or aiding in the take of wildlife, or locating wildlife for the purpose of taking or aiding in the take of wildlife,” according to the bill.

A trail camera is a device that is placed in an area for the purpose of capturing photos or video wildlife while a person is gone. The cameras are often triggered by motion and store pictures or videos to be viewed later.
Posted By: Stompy

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/05/21 08:01 PM

Unbelievable, wonder how many states will follow.
Posted By: Biscuit

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/05/21 08:25 PM

Sounds ridiculous to me
Posted By: Hudbone

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/05/21 08:30 PM

Not to me and especially since everybody is supposed to play by the same set of rules.
Posted By: Hudbone

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/05/21 08:31 PM

Not to me and especially since everybody is supposed to play by the same set of rules.
Posted By: TCM3

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/05/21 08:32 PM

RIDICULOUS!
Posted By: Creekrunner

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/05/21 08:36 PM

Public or private land?
Posted By: stxranchman

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/05/21 08:42 PM

I like the idea of removing them from public land. I have seen photos of almost 100 cameras around one water trough/hole. I think the issue some are not understanding was the amount of foot/human traffic into and around the water when checking cameras(cell cams have limited this to a point when they have good signal) I could see that limiting animals from drinking water in a dry climate with the limited water available. Let them spend the camera money on adding water sources, then let them use the cams again.
Posted By: Hudbone

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/05/21 08:44 PM

yep
Posted By: dogcatcher

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/05/21 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by Stompy
Unbelievable, wonder how many states will follow.


I found this based on a link from a friend in Arkansas. The other article did not state Arkansas would ban the cams, but it did not say that they wouldn't.
Posted By: Ol Thumper

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/05/21 09:17 PM

I can see it on public land but please don’t try and tell me what I can do on my own property other than the harvest laws. Good luck trying to enforce that one with me rofl
Posted By: ErnestTBass

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/05/21 09:39 PM

I've always found it weird that people leave cameras on public land.

But as far as private property goes, keep your nose out of my business.
Posted By: TCB

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/06/21 01:41 AM

Put your tinfoil hats on and go with me……they don’t want any pics getting out showing illegals passing by.
Posted By: Double Naught Spy

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/06/21 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Creekrunner
Public or private land?


I have looked at 3 different articles including interviews with the head of F&G. All they say is 'state wide' but the discussion sounds like public land because they are concerned (amongst other things) with 'hunter conflicts' over game cameras. Statewide implies public and private land. So, I can't figure it out.

The logic behind the ban is is that the state is in a serious drought, has a limited number of watersheds, the number of hunters in the field is going up, and so game doesn't have a fair chance because of cameras around water areas.
Posted By: Jimbo

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/06/21 02:23 PM

Government overreach at it's finest!
Why don't they just ban tracks or game trails?
Posted By: Herbie Hancock

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/06/21 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by Jimbo
Government overreach at it's finest!
Why don't they just ban tracks or game trails?


Don't give them that idea, someone will run with it, just like that lady years ago crying about the deer crossing signs being at a dangerous intersection.
Posted By: Wytex

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/06/21 02:40 PM

I've never understood why so many hunters feel they need trail cams for a successful hunt..
Cell cams are really getting banned all over and regular trail cams will soon follow across the west due to over use.
Many state now restrict their use to before hunting season and then you must remove them.
I do support private property rights on their use.
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/06/21 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by Creekrunner
Public or private land?


From my understanding ONLY on Public, as private falls under the exemption uses. . In all reality, it was getting really really bad. Especially in limited water area. You would find 50 plus trail cams, at every water guzzler. Now image the human pressure on the game as everyone is checking cameras, on the one constant level water hole for 30 plus sections.

If I was the state, I’d set up a remote camera on the hole, and sale subscriptions that specifically fund new guzzlers and water hauling. Regardless it was getting pretty bad. This wasn't best case scenario but same out out come.


With that said they did leave the exemptions pretty wide open.
Posted By: Double Naught Spy

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/06/21 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by Wytex
I've never understood why so many hunters feel they need trail cams for a successful hunt..


Because they have found that they are more successful if they have them.
Posted By: Adchunts

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/06/21 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by ErnestTBass
I've always found it weird that people leave cameras on public land.

But as far as private property goes, keep your nose out of my business.


That’s a nice sentiment, but states already regulate how and when you can take game animals on private property. This is just an extension of those same rules. I’m not saying I agree with the proposed law (I don’t), but I am saying there is a precedent for regulating hunter behavior on private property.
Posted By: LeonCarr

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/06/21 09:57 PM

Stupid.

Just because an animal shows up at this place, on this date, at this time, does not mean the animal is going to do exactly that every.single.day.

It is still fair chase even with cameras.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr
Posted By: stxranchman

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/06/21 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by LeonCarr
Stupid.

Just because an animal shows up at this place, on this date, at this time, does not mean the animal is going to do exactly that every.single.day.

It is still fair chase even with cameras.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

How many days can you go without water? Deer have to go no matter the circumstances if it is the only water supply for miles. They can not live without water in that dry area. Does not mean you will see him there in the daylight but you know he lives within a mile or so radius of that water supply.
Posted By: don k

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/06/21 10:14 PM

If the state or the Federal Gov. owns the land they can make the rules. It is the same with privately owned land. The owners of the land make the rules. That is the way it should be.
Posted By: jnd59

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/07/21 12:54 AM

As others have said, the impetus for this ban was the number of cameras at water holes. People were checking those day and night. Water holes with dozens of cameras. Trails to water holes with dozens more. Banning cameras near water holes was considered but that would just move them back to the trails. Putting up a state camera was considered but that has some public relations issues, especially when antis start naming deer. Southern Arizona is an odd duck in that much of the habitat is sky islands, which means ranges are limited. The closest islands are tens of miles apart.

Right now I don't see other states doing this as the cameras are not as concentrated.

The view on cameras in western states is a little different than the rest of us. You can't glass a couple square miles in east Texas.
Posted By: jnd59

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/07/21 12:57 AM

Also, the ban is for using cameras in the act of taking game. That leaves a huge question mark...
Posted By: dogcatcher

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/07/21 01:00 AM

We only have 2 cameras, both are set up to take pictures of people. One for those entering the place and the other documenting who enters the cabin.
Posted By: ILUVBIGBUCKS

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/07/21 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by TCM3
RIDICULOUS!

Absolute STUPIDITY
Posted By: Wytex

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/07/21 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy
Originally Posted by Wytex
I've never understood why so many hunters feel they need trail cams for a successful hunt..


Because they have found that they are more successful if they have them.


Perhaps but many folks never use them and do just fine. I've never used one for hunting and do fine filling my tags. Get out and scout, boots on the ground. Put in the time and effort.
Usually takes a day or so to realize if the game you're after is utilizing an area. Hunting skills have eroded due to their use, imo. Guys head out , put up their cell cams and wait for them to ping a animal.

jnd59 look over the definition of take in the state, that will be how they can enforce it.
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/07/21 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by Wytex
Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy
Originally Posted by Wytex
I've never understood why so many hunters feel they need trail cams for a successful hunt..


Because they have found that they are more successful if they have them.


Perhaps but many folks never use them and do just fine. I've never used one for hunting and do fine filling my tags. Get out and scout, boots on the ground. Put in the time and effort.
Usually takes a day or so to realize if the game you're after is utilizing an area. Hunting skills have eroded due to their use, imo. Guys head out , put up their cell cams and wait for them to ping a animal.

jnd59 look over the definition of take in the state, that will be how they can enforce it.



The ban stems from units like the strip that typically take 20 plus years to draw and you are hunting for we'll over 200” deer, this includes elk units producing 400 type bulls(although it's easier to fly for elk). It was pushed to vote because residents felt outfitters where the issue. In reality while outfitters do run lots of cameras trying to pre-locate deer, they typically employee enough guys by season that's sole job is to glass and locate, it wont overly effect them, but will effect local non-guided a bunch.

I don't blame even a resident trying to maximize essentially a once in a lifetime tag, by using cameras to narrow down their search. But end of the day it had gotten ridiculous. There are also guys that make a substantial amount off selling info to tag holders.

You are right it doesn't make sense if you are just hunting for any mature deer, but a once in a lifetime time tag in area that you can specifically target water to find out 99% of what the area holds, then it does. Again we aren't talking just any 170” er. These guys are normally targeting 200-250” deer

Posted By: SherpaPhil

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/07/21 04:30 PM

The Meateater podcast just stayed it was both public and private land.
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/07/21 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by SherpaPhil
The Meateater podcast just stayed it was both public and private land.


Yes, I re-read on it but the exemptions make private pretty much unenforceable.
Posted By: Wytex

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/07/21 04:41 PM

All great and valid points BOBO but even a once in a lifetime tag should involve hunting not just going out a shooting an animal that has been scouted via trail cam and paid scouters. Just my 2 cents anyway but I do get some folks want that once in a lifetime by any means.
Seems to me though a buck that has made it to 200+ inches should get the respect of hunting him, not just hiring someone to scout him for me so I can go shoot him.

I do know that all of us have different values and ways of doing things, one size does not fit all.
I found a Booner sheep without any use of trail cams, my OIL sheep tag. I did however have no clue as to his size when I shot him. That was pure luck on my part.

I would just like to see more folks getting out and getting their own boots on the ground to find an animal worthy of taking.

Interestingly enough we have paid scouters for some outfitters in our best moose area, they got bent out of shape when a local guy found the big bull they were watching and posted the info so another local guy could go take it. Tried to make it like he had unethical help with his take when they were the ones out watching it for another hunter, a governor's tag holder.
Posted By: intohunting

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/07/21 04:43 PM

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Wytex

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/07/21 05:48 PM

Here's a waterhole with only a few. How many guys have to go check them, and how often ?
The activity around waterholes can keep wildlife from using it.
There are documented waterholes with multitudes of cams on them, it does hurt the wildlife.

Hone your hunting and scouting skills to find that trophy.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: intohunting

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/07/21 09:11 PM

I live in Arizona and I have heard of stories such as the picture posted by Wytex. There are well known trophy areas (Kaibab/AZ Strip) that gets hit the hardest with numerous cameras being placed around waterholes by individuals and outfitters. There is no doubt that frequent checking of game cameras can/will disrupt the wildlife. Like most things, everything can be abused. Live action cameras were previously banned for the take of wildlife in 2018.
At one point the AZGFD (Arizona Game & Fish Department) were considering a ¼ mile restriction around water sources.

The Arizona Game and Fish Commission arranged to take public comments before making their ruling to ban trail cameras entirely.
There were good points made from both sides of the fence.

Here is one example that was submitted and posted on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/mikeyjoharris
We checked this camera this morning after we cut this female lions tracks in a wash. We DID NOT pursue her because we have her on another camera with 2 kittens. Without a trail camera we would not have known she had kittens. WE HAD A SHOOTER WITH US AND HAD EVERY REASON TO DUMP ON THIS TRACK. EXCEPT FOR THE KITTENS ON trail CAMERA Multiple times. We have not seen the kittens track once.
Arizona Game and Fish is proposing a trail camera ban in Arizona this is just another reason why we do NOT NEED a trail camera ban. Feel free to share. If I tagged you it’s because I believe this rule change affects you. Now is the time to take action.
The proposed change is currently open to public comment until February 1st please let the AZGFD COMMISSION know that you are opposed to this ban. You can email your opinion to rulemaking@azgfd.gov or call Larry at 928-263-8850. Please keep it respectful and civil.
My issue with this rule is that it is specific to hunters, if you are not a hunter it will be perfectly legal to put cameras out. We FUND the Arizona Game and Fish with License and Tag Sales, creating a law that is specific to hunters is gross negligence. One of the best ways to get the younger generation engaged in hunting is trail cameras. While it may be hard to draw a tag in this great state, nearly the same jubilation can be found for a child or beginning hunter from getting pictures of a wild animal on a trail camera, while causing zero harm to the animal. There is ZERO scientific data backing up their case for banning cameras.
I urge you to be heard.

I bow hunt out of a ground blind on public ground (National Forest). Erecting and breaking down my blind with each use isn't feasible. I also place a motion camera (high in a tree and angled down) toward my blind to capture any thieves who might help themselves to my blind. I'm sure this wouldn't be allowed for theft identification purposes under the new ruling. mad
I personally would have liked the AZ Commission to have at least tried the 1/4 mile restriction around water sources. The animals would adapt even if it meant for them turning nocturnal and watering mainly at night. I feel that my hunting & scouting skills are honed and that I will be successful with or without my now useless trail cameras. Is the AZGFD going to reimburse me for my game cameras (like a gun buyback program)? Of course not. Finally, If all states decide to ban trail cameras, there will be a significant financial blow to all of the game camera manufacturers.
Posted By: PigMoney

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/13/21 04:02 PM

I can remember hunting when cameras weren't a thing and corn feeders were scarce. When any deer walked out your heart rate sped up and especially so when a nice buck showed up and you watched him come in from 1000 yds off.
I don't get the same feeling anymore. I use cell cameras and enjoy watching what shows up year round, but when a buck I've been watching all summer shows up, it's almost expected of him to show up vs the experience of what might be out there. I know I could simply shut off the camera but I use it as a management tool for the landowner and I. Double edged sword.
Posted By: Gringo Bling

Re: Arizona Game Cam Ban - 07/13/21 06:04 PM

I have no problem with such a ban on public land. There are some very vocal AZ outfitters that fought this bill very hard, but some of the camera setups that I saw look like complete squatting. I have no problems with cameras on private land (I use them in Texas), but I don't agree with their use on public lands.
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