hunting leases will be a thing of the past

With hunting land now selling for between $4,000 ------------$8,000 an acre ( I just sold 42 acres for $340,000 in Durango, Tx), the amount people will pay to lease it will be insignificant to the new land owners, so it is unlikely they will lease the hunting rights. If you paid $340K for land would you really lease the rights for $2K---No.

I agree. Someone who is buying land at these prices would never even consider leasing it.

Anyone buying a smaller tract of land is not going to lease it. They are buying it for their own use.There will always be leases in Texas.....maybe not quite as many as land gets fragmented. The prices of leases have steadily climbed in price over the last 50 yrs no matter what has happened to the economy or oil prices or whatever one would think would effect them. They will continue to climb in price year after year.

I think there will always be a few options, especially from people who already own the land and want to earn some extra income. Ranchers for instance that don't live on the ranch. They might own 2000 acres that just gets grazed....why not make an extra $20-30k a year to let people hunt on it. I definitely see your point though. If I could afford land, there's no way I'm letting people hunt on it.....maybe that's why I've been unsuccessfully looking for a lease for years now....

Years ago around here there were folks who leased their property to hunters. Now I don't know of any.

There’s a cattle rancher near me that’s land rich and cash poor. He leases out hunting on most of his land. That’s probably the case with a lot of old ranchers around the state.

I think you are working some faulty logic. That someone paid a lot of money and won't lease cheaply does not mean leases will be gone. Lease prices may go up, but there will be leases. There will be people that pay lease prices.

Also, lots of landowners lease as a side hustle to other ongoing operations, right? They aren't expecting to make all their money back from hunt leasing, just to earn some side income.

Exactly right

There are many ranchers in TX that are multi-millionaires when considering their assets (land). Not so much with cash in the bank.

That's why I bought my own place. There used to be many leases available in our area but as the old folks passed on the children or estate took control of the lands and they were sold off or locked down.

I believe people will continue to lease to make supplemental income and to help get a little money back on what they spent to buy the land.

Everyone of those ranchers probably have $$$$$ in the bank because they live off nothing, and prepare for the worse. The newer generations could learn a lot from those depression babies.

IMHO, it's going to put more emphasis on the relationship between landowners and hunters, as is often the case in the sales world. While money will always be the key driver with landowners, hunters may find themselves having to make changes to satisfy increasing demands from landowners. More landowners, like the one who owns the land I currently lease, may not allow hunters to use feeders because of the problems that can come with them. Others may not allow hunters to camp on their property due to the increased liability. The same rules that apply to public land may eventually become more common to private leases.

No, many of them don't. That is sort of the point about being land rich and cash poor. A lot of farmers are in the same shape.

There are also wealthy land owners who utilize ranches as a safe haven to store value. Somes will try to earn as much revenue as possible while seldom venturing on the places they own.

If that was the case many ranches/farmers would of went up for sale via the country court steps because of depressed cattle prices and grain prices last few years.

Perception isn’t always reality. Like I said most will live off nothing to get through hard times with out getting into savings. Nature of the game when you are use to only getting a paycheck 1-3 times a year, and are the mercy of
Mother nature.

Leasing hunting is a diversity investment to add another 1-2 paychecks a year.

Not saying farming and ranching are a get rich occupation, but it’s an occupation that requires very thoughtful spending and saving.

I don't know any landowners who wont let hunters use feeders. You might have found the only one.

Most places require at least a protein feeder to meet requirements for the wildlife exemption.

Probably been going for a few generations also, and never have issues finding grass or dirt leasors.

Cutting the larger ranches up into smaller tracts is a much greater threat to supply and demand of hunting leases.

That's been going on for awhile, regardless of land prices.

Its going to get worse if Binden gets his way. historic ranches are a thing of the past.

You won't even be able to beat it as inherited stock.

I disagree

I'm talking about the ranches that have been in families for generations for the most part.
A lot of the true blue Texas Ranchers would rather starve than sell an acre of their sacred land and I don't blame them for that one bit. The land means everything to them because of the values they were taught on it!

Many down South are now have millions in the bank because of the EF oil boom but prior to that literally scratched a living off that brush for generations from cattle and what they could get selling either leases or package hunts.

Thing of the past, for some maybe.

Supply is low, demand is constant or increasing so there you have it. I have been on leases most of my life and there is a concept that some hunters I know have a hard time embracing, and that is that even though you are a paying customer, you need to act like a guest.

I recently had a conversation with a guy that got kicked off of a lease. He was on property in a vehicle with California plates. The land owner didn't recognize him, or the vehicle. So, the land owner engages him in a conversation, and the lease member immediately gets defensive and argumentative with the land owner. The next year, lease boss tells him land owner doesn't want him back.

This guy actually calls me, and tells me this story, almost verbatim to what I have described. Since I know the land owner as a former lease member on some of his property, I guess this guy was just wanted to bash the land owner. One of the things he said to me, "XXX XXXXXXXXX thinks just because he owns 26,000 acres he's a big shot". My answer, "He is, and you're looking for a lease because you don't get it".

It will be harder, but as others have said, like a lot of business' land owners have several income streams from their land. Grazing, hunting, water, timber, farming, etc......

Yup

And this is pretty much inevitable through each generation if there is more than one child involved which there usually is.

There is no doubt!
100% FACT!

I see that as a good thing if it means the landowner receiving fewer offers from other hunters.

only took 2 pages before Biden's name was mentioned...

High prices play way bigger roll... Leases were were on were affordable...
Seen were land owners leased land for 5 year option... Hunters did all the work.
Money, time, effort, then landowner, go behind back & advertise...
$$$$ money talks...
In the HF/LF discussions, many times seen people post.



That's & majo more than rity of them thar HF bucks got thar start from them thar deer farms...

High prices have played biggest roll...
ammo cost more than the gun these days...
& price of living gonna go up...
Happens every time thesy raise minimum wages...
Just my
money talks
i still got cheap posts...

Here, can see lots of changes in hunting...
We dont have the public land (wooded) like @
OSBWMA & the many other bigger acers that hunted down thar...
Thar be few land owners that let us hunt...
Tis a Blessing @ thankful... & let them know, offer ta help out...
Farming around here has become more corporate farming...
Prices of machinery expensive..



US tis slowly been geared ta Bigger. Faster, Better...
Seen this as a water meter reader... We get ahead, go help out in other departments.
We get the level eye, from the other departments...
We were told, dont slow down... Twas race, man vs high tech...
It twas faster, but we did more than just read meters...
We had NO say...

tis thinking prices of leases plays big role in leasing...
It cheaper ta go ta the store for 10 #'s of hamberger...
If it weren't for the OSBWMA opening up just down the road,
i'd a quit hunting years ago., leases just cost too much...
End rant...
Best wish's
Social distancing from MN...

The current puppet masters don't believe in private property, except of course, their compounds.

Yes, leasing hunting, but still acting as a guest, is a hard concept for some to wrap their head around. It usually pays to be humble, but some guys just don't have it in them.

Like Creek said, many don't get it that there is only one owner of the property. Those people are the same that may complain about doing something to improve the property even though it may make the lease better for them. i don't think the price of a lease is going to be the determining factor as to who has a lease. I am assuming there are places that lease for $1000. per gun but there are others that go for $5000. We seek out what can be afforded. The greatest danger is when the heirs of a property decide to sell rather than retain the land.

I've also seen cases where it's practically impossible to secure a lease when heirs don't get along. The parents die without a will and the kids never probate the property because of the cost and taxes. While one heir might give you permission to hunt, others can as well from other heirs.

^^^^^The few guys I have had to kick off our lease have all had this in common.

In South Africa, a lot of the resident populations hunt. Season leases there are almost unheard of, what is very popular is 3-4 day package hunts. Guys come in, stay/camp for 3-4 years, get their bush meat and get home.

I can see more domestic hunting going this way. I would not mind letting some hunters come in to kill a few surplus animals, but what I wouldn’t want is some guys hanging out for 3 months. 3-4 days hunts works great.

All I know is my experience with my own 6th generation place, family, friends and multi-generational leasor’s. I've never had any grass or dirt go un-leased and I’ve never not have a standing offer on a peice of land from a leasee. There is a huge difference in being broke and saying/living like you are. Younger generations are leveraged, the older, not so much. With that said everyones perspective of money/savings amounts are different.

Broke small ranchers/farmers are the minority not majority IMO.

I was on a lease south of Ozona for just one year, with a buddy from church, before the big fires went across it and then my buddy died. Large, multiple-ranch owner; well-known name in the Sonora/Ozona area. He hadn't laid his eyes on the pasture and camp in twenty years. I was even a little shocked, but the camp looked like a "Colonia". Actually, I think a Colonia is a little nicer. Owner finally wound up on the place and had a conniption fit. I don't really blame him. I wouldn't want all that crap on my land and there was no way it was ever gonna be hauled off by the "responsible parties". God Bless the VFD, although the fire would have helped some of the camp. I got my travel trailer and never went back. I did not leave a thing of mine there.

'Point is, a "hands-off" owner isn't always a good thing. And an owner needs to regularly check all that he has.

This points back to my earlier comments, that maintaining an ongoing relationship with the landowner includes speaking with them routinely. You often hear stories from hunters who suddenly find out the landowner is going to sell his/her place or lease it to someone else. And usually when you hear such a story, the person telling it hasn't spoken with the landowner in months or since they paid for their lease a year ago.

I don't mind at all when a landowner asks me to let him/her know each time I intend to be on their property. In fact, I prefer it because it keeps a line of communication open where useful comments and information can be shared from both sides. As with any relationship involving people, the ones that include some measure of trust provide the greatest value to everyone involved. It's hard to develop trust with someone you speak with once a year at most.

I know several farmers that live not only in Texas but other areas as well.

None of them are close to broke. Actually quite the opposite.

One day, many many years in the future, when you are no longer with us,

I’ll go down by the wind mill and build a Colonia in your honor. We will throw a pachanga/crawfish boil to be inclusive of all the neighbors

IMO there will always be deer leases available in Texas - to me the greatest danger today is deer hunting in South Texas -

There are still large ranch owners in STex who want the large income of leasing their ranches.

But in today's world, South Texas has become Mexico - hunters are fearful of the illegal drug traffic and what that brings. The whole ball game has changed down there and will affect how many hunters are willing to risk paying huge money for a lease with the risk of the drug cartel walking into their camps and their blinds - believe me it is real - until the border craziness stops South Texas hunting will suffer

That’s a bit of stretch. It’s not the cartel it’s the illegals and the bs that comes with it. We have a couple tracts of land between family members in south Texas. To be specific La Salle, Webb, Jim Hogg, Hidalgo, and Starr. All considered to be high traffic areas. Do illegals of today pose a physical threat yes, but the Cartel is not walking into hunting camps. South Texas leases that produce good WT will NOT suffer. Just ask my in-laws. They just leased 2000ac HF ranch with improved genetics at $48k and require a set amount of protein to be fed yearly. I hear what you’re saying and there is a ton of bs that can be associated with south Texas leases, but el chapo ain’t showing up at camp.

Sir maybe not in YOUR camp but it was in ours - I have spent 13 years twelve miles from Eagle Pass - mosey down there for a few days and tell me the cartel is not there - how do I know? because I have personally witnessed it multiple times - don't believe me? Go ask any BP agent in that area - I had many BP officers tell me how many cartel members were moving through the area and that they were dealing with. My hunters and I witnessed multiple groups dressed in black from head to toe with backpacks going through our ranch and some approaching camp. It is a real issue where we are.

I also know many many other LO's in that area and they are overrun - so it may not have reached your area yet but trust me it is happening in a pretty big swath where we were -

Not starting a Pissing match - I respect that maybe you do not have it in Webb, etc but believe me it is full force in a large area near the border and it has hunters thinking twice -

https://www.dailysignal.com/2021/03...g-property-damage-and-trashing-his-land/

Not trying to start one either. Anything west of Webb I’m not to familiar with. That’s terrible to hear and I can only hope that the tide changes soon.

There is a ton, I mean a ton of illegal traffic in South Texas right now. Unprecedented amounts.

But I don’t know of anyone getting off their leases. South Texas will always be a Mecca for deer hunting and any available land will not go unleashed.

Anything west of Webb is Neuvao Laredo. Webb is a hot spot for cartel.

I have also witnessed the “men in black” in Webb county. Our camp was a major landmark for a lot of illegal traffic.

Not disagreeing, but how do you all know the guys in black are cartel? Illegals are the cartels #1 commodity. It’s the gift that keeps giving. Many times the illegals will pay up to $10k usd to be guided across. Once They get picked up on our side they dropped back over and they work for several years for the cartel for another opportunity to be led across. 9/10 times the coyotes leading them are not actual cartel guys. They are just on the payroll and sadly live on our side. The cartel uses a lot of local gangbangers and thugs. I guess that’s splitting hairs. One thing that I’ve learned is cartels realize violence on our side is bad for business. That’s why at grandpas place when BP, DPS, or State boys are on them they either drop their stash and book it for the river or if they are close they will try and make it back across with the merchandise. The cartels aren’t stupid they want to minimize their presence it’s bad for business. That’s one of the multitude of things Biden is clueless on. He doesn’t realize opening our border is putting tons of renewable revenue in the pockets of drug cartels. The left ideology incentivizes and promotes that revenue stream.


My grandpas place is literally on the banks of the rio grande in Hidalgo County. I grew up on that place and seen more illegals than I can count. A couple years back I went to go night hunt grandpas place. when I showed up in the back section there was 9 of those 15 passenger vans that BP uses as paddy wagons full to the brim. they still Had maybe 30 people sitting on the ground. Believe me I’m familiar with the problem. Hell I spent 2 years and a good chunk of money restoring one of grandpas JD 4020’s and they made a big [censored] floating dock and tried to steal it. BP thermal caught it and went to intercept. they panicked and it ended up at the bottom of the river. I’m still not over that.

Please forgive my ignorance, but what is a Colina? I checked Google, but I am guessing neither one of you are referring to a genus of snails or a Peruvian death squad.

Colonia = poor neighborhood or residential area in south texas. Proper Spanish it’s = to suburb. On our side Picture tin roof and walls Made of the following materials or mix of osb, tin siding, cinder blocks, or pallets. Picture shanty towns and shacks.

The loss of hunting leases is not the real issue. Urban sprawl around the country is sucking a couple of millions of acres every year of the food production chain. Over the last 50 years a lot of ranches and farms in the Abilene area have been turned into housing "projects" with postage sized lots filled with MacMansions.

This report is 7 years old. https://www.texastribune.org/2014/10/14/open-space-texas/

Thanks

Because of many discussions with BP who are there daily and tell us how many cartel members they chase and catch - they have also told us how many of the illegals they catch are now armed - in 13 years we never had an illegal walk into our camp while we were there and this past season it happened on a regular basis - when a hunter is fearful to leave their wife in camp alone while they hunt then that becomes an issue

That’s interesting how different regions operate. I’m so accustomed to seeing illegals walking through all the family places but la salle that I have BP on my favorites contact list. By the grace of God I haven’t run into an armed one, but a group of 25 is nerve racking even with a an AR. I pray it stays that way. I hope your situation improves and you can enjoy that time with the family.

Even those who bought their land when it was selling for hundreds of dollars an acre want 4-5K+ for a hundred acre hunting lease. You're absolutely right that those buying land at current prices will consider even that to be pennies on the dollar. The only available hunting will be on high fence ranches with inbred, overfed farmed deer where you pay 5-10K per hunt rather than per season.

What this means is that like in Europe, only the wealthiest or most well-connected will have access to hunting of any kind within a generation.

This is a problem everywhere - even in states that used to have a lot of public land (or unposted private land that was open to the public), as land gets eaten up by developers, more hunters get crowded onto smaller and smaller areas, to the point where it's often not even worth going.

Except the US is 36% public land.

Not all high fences are equal and let’s be honest the way we hunt in Texas over a feeder isn’t exactly challenging high fence or low fence doesn’t matter when feeder is 100 yds away. There is a market for those type of deer. We shouldn’t eat our own we have enough people doing that to us already.

How the non-hunting majority views our practices will always be the determining factor in sustaining our hunting privileges. That is without question, the greatest lesson we can learn from our European counterparts.

Wish we could be more like Europe and Hunt at Night, but then again they have been doing deer drives with dogs for centuries. Be cool to have mandatory silencers requirements also.

Europe has leases just like the US. What they don’t have is public land.



Can you atleast google before you post your normal non-sense?


In America hunting is generally well approved of. # 1 general opinion is as long as it’s consumptive. General public doesn’t care about fair. Nothing fair about killing an animal. They care about consumption and sustainability of the species. Only ones that care about this “fair” ideology are elitist in our own ranks, that don’t want their “trophy” accomplishments lessened... thus the term pen deer. That’s a hunters term

When estate taxes were confiscatory years ago, ranches were sold constantly by the heirs because it was the only way to pay them. It was the number one reason deer leases were lost.

Nowadays the changes in the tax law and lots of other factors have changed the landscape. There are still many, many “cash poor” large landowners-but when they die most of the time there is plenty of time for the heirs to sell and the proceeds don’t go the government anymore.

My own portfolio is out of whack cash vs. land because I have always liked an investment I could walk on and enjoy.

I wouldn't consider you or me financially dependent on ag income, even though both portfolios would put us into the mid to larger land owner sectors.

I’ve yet to met a cash poor large farming/ranching land owner that was finically distressed or cash poor from farming or ranching. If they where it was because of other life choices (divorce, drinking/drugs, gambling, etc). With that said you don’t have to be a large land owner to be a larger rancher or farmer. My experience is the older generations have a much lower cost of living ability then newer generation, and generally the older generations saved for the worse and are generally greatly scared of leverage(they have actually lived through bad times, we have had generally very steady markets for past 30 years and really only two really bad extended droughts). I’ve watch it daily over past 40 ish years as family hierarchies changes with my multi-generational lessors and my friends/family. That's my experience, with that said my circle is generally larger ranches and leasees.

"Hunting with hounds in the traditional manner became unlawful in Scotland in 2002 and in England and Wales in 2005, but continues in certain accepted forms. Traditional foxhunting continues in Northern Ireland. Following a trail (similar to drag hunting) rather than a live quarry has subsequently grown in importance in Great Britain, as has hunting foxes with a bird of prey. In 2005 it became unlawful in England and Wales to shoot game birds while they are not in flight, an action which has long been considered unsporting."

I remember seeing a news report years ago (might have even been a magazine article) how fox hunters in England were using a "runner" to carry a scented drag through the woods to create a chase for their hounds. It was no doubt those who viewed traditional fox hunting as cruel and barbaric that lead to the changes.

“the older generations have a much lower cost of living ability then newer generation”

+1

The newer generation has $1,000 smart phones, astronomical property taxes, & $80k King Ranch Edition pickups.

As usual, it’s kind of hard for me to follow you. Are you saying I’m wrong? Lying? Both? Neither?

I mean, I’m just a guy who grew up in rural Texas, has seen a few things, and represented farmers and ranchers for over 30 years, You don’t have to tell me about the frugality of those who lived through hard times - my parents and grandparents lived it. Guess what? My grandparents were land rich and cash poor their entire lives. They literally lived off the land because wouldn’t have had enough cash to make it otherwise.

In fact, of all the folks who are land rich and cash poor, in my experience over the past 45 plus years based on what I have seen old time family farmers and ranchers top the list. Truth is, that’s part of the reason there just aren’t many of them left. You know, disappearing family farms, industrial agriculture, etc. It’s been a thing for a while now.

There are not many “depression babies” left. (You might bear in mind that a baby born in 1941 will turn 80 this year.)

Your experience may differ, of course. I’m not going to say it isn’t. Or it isn’t valid. I don’t claim a monopoly on being the only one with a point of view. Or claim I have all the answers to all the questions.

Keep looking several countries they still do drives with dogs on for deer and hogs. Why do you we have such strong Europeans dog hunting roots.

You ignored Night hunting and leases...

I think there's still some Deep East Texas boys that are still plenty pissed about not being able to drive deer with dogs...legally.

It's brutal, not my cup of tea, but, as stated, has been around since the middle ages.

You are being sensitive, I merely stating from my personal experience the perception of land rich cash poor is false for larger landowners and larger leasee’s.

I still have two sharecroppers that are depression babies. That era’s methodology still carried over to our parents and many of us. Next generation not so much, again for most part in last 30 years we haven’t had a economical depression deep enough to cause distressed type county court house step auctions of ranches/farms. No reason to be cash poor in current ag market unless you recently bought land and your sole note payment and living expenses is based off its output. But that’s not even a minute percentage of large ag farmer/rancher owners or/lessees to begin with.

I have a feeling the biggest perception differences on this thread about this topic are probably what classifies large ranchers/farms. If you are trying to make a living off of 50head of wet cows year in year out, it’s going to be a struggle, but I don’t consider 50 head a full time job. I also wouldn’t call farming a section(excluding Midwest) a full time job either.

Have to keep in mind Europe’s has been established far longer than the United States.

I also think the concept of hunting leases is a 20th century idea. I don’t remember reading about guys in the 1880’s saddling you their horses to go to the lease.


Few hard facts about leasing:

It isn’t a landowners obligation to lease his land for hunting. If he chooses to that’s his business. He owes nobody anything in terms of access or hunting rights.

Leases is a supply and demand commodity and prices are not dictated by a union. Since leasing was invented there have been people who complained about the prices. I remember one guy 20 years ago snicker at a $500/year when we tried to get him to join as “ too rich for my blood”. And it was a good lease.

Leases will continue to become more scarce as landowners are in better financial positions than previous generations to not need the hunting lease income. It’s oftentimes a headache for them. They are content to enjoy friends and family enjoy the land rather than lease it to strangers. And a lot of land sits unhunted, I will tell you that. If they choose to lease its oftentimes on property that is viewed as straight investment that they are involved little in the day to day. The leases I’ve been apart of were this way....ranchers were content to have a tenant on the property to offset some tax cost as the property appreciated in value for future dispersal.

Wise words. 'Wouldn't mind a reasonable MD lease though, with a little bit of a view.

And this is especially true when they see no benefit in supporting hunting for sport.

I don’t think they’re going away but I do see them more and more unaffordable for a blue collar guy

The sky isn’t falling guys, if your that concerned about lease prices simply buy some land of your own even if it’s 50 acres somewhere. Another idea is to simply find another part of the state to hunt. Whatever you do is stay out of Oklahoma, the hunting up thr sucks and the poachers are way to bad to deal with

A lot of skilled blue collar workers make more that corporate white collie guys.

I can hardly see this at all. Landowners who lease out hunting rights are looking to perpetuate income streams and if that means supporting hunting, then so be it.

I’ve been saying this for years.

No “new” landowners are gonna want to lease their property, for anything, it’s for them (& friends/family) to use.

If they have enough money to pay $2,000-$8,000/ac for land, they don’t need $10-$20/ac from strangers to have them act like the place is theirs.

Nobody owes anyone a cheap deer lease. I don’t blame landowners for wanting to enjoy their land themselves.

Just because a landowner doesn’t wanna lease to a couple of broke-dick city hunters doesn’t make him an a-hole.

Leased land will be a thing of the past soon. All the broke-dicks who complain about paying >$10/ac for leased hunting right are fixing to learn how much a deer lease is really worth.

The old “if you won’t lease out your property to us for cheap, we will vote against hunting & now you can’t enjoy it either” argument.

Sounds a lot like something a terrorist would say while holding a hostage at gun point.

IMO, it’s a dumb argument.

If my 2 choices are;

1) you HAVE to lease your property to deer hunters (for what they think is cheap)
OR
2) everyone will vote to outlaw hunting

I’ll take #2 all day. If we are at that point, landownership clearly means nothing, & I would prefer the solitude over a buncha broke-dick entitled “hunters” thinking they have any right to others property.

"Just because a landowner doesn’t wanna lease to a couple of broke-dick city hunters doesn’t make him an a-hole.

Leased land will be a thing of the past soon. All the broke-dicks who complain about paying >$10/ac for leased hunting right are fixing to learn how much a deer lease is really worth."

Not every lease hunter is a broke-dick and some do not complain about the costs. Even so, no one is bad for not leasing out their land. Ownership comes with control and that in and of itself is a wonderful thing.

Oftentimes, when someone purchases a tract of land for their own, they no longer have to lease someone else's land to hunt and that helps to take away the competition for leasing hunting rights. Hunting leases and other hunting opportunities may be on slight decline, but will be around for a long, long time.

Those old timers that used to lease their land for cheap have died off and their kids and grandkids own the land now.
They know they can demand what the market is asking, or they will more than likely subdivide it and take the money and run.
If you think your kids have a future that land will be available for them to hunt on, you had better try buying some land now because it's going to get harder and harder to find, and not going to be any cheaper than it is now.
Pasture land I used to hunt just 30 years ago now has paved streets manicured lawns, fancy houses, hospitals and schools and city services, so land being available for a long, long, time is just wishful thinking in my opinion.

Not to mention the increased liability that comes in today's world with having people frequenting your property with firearms and vehicles. Sure, you can demand they sign a waiver. But why bother with even the potential for headaches should something happen?

https://agrilife.org/texasaglaw/2016/02/01/texas-agritourism-act/

Texas Recreational Land Use Act, chapter 75 of TX Civil Remedies Code is absolutely golden.

the Hunter Walk in Access program got a big funding boost from Trump in the Farm bill. I’m seeing more and more land around us go into the program. I’ve put some stuff into it and then donate a lot of the money back to hunter conservation groups.

Hunting leases will never go away. There will always be landowners that will keep their leasors because of a pleasant history and fact those lessees treat the land with respect and truly believe it’s a privilege not a right.

so Big Buck$ has nothing ta do with it ?
Other states, tis done with out green backs ...

I’m not saying it’s free, I’m just saying it will remain affordable and mutually beneficial because the owner enjoys his lessors.

Your second sentence makes no sense in reference to my post.

I think there is more truth to Bobo's comment than many of us realize. I have been on the same lease for 19 years I think. Have had one price increase and I know I have the trust of the owners to do the right thing.

Was on my 1st lease for fourteen years and now on my 2nd one for 15 and have a 6 year lease renewal starting this season. There are ways to do the right thing. It's not that difficult.

have seen threads on HF, refuting ta the hog problems, whin suggested thars plenty of hunters willing ta help out... Some on here say (hunters) cause more damage than the hogs do...

& have also seen were hunters, treated the land with respect, & were Thankful, payed for the privilege with thar own hard earned money, time, & sweet.. Only ta get out big by Bigger Buck'$...

Pay ta Play...

It’s pretty difficult for some people.

I sold one ranch to my buyer that we had to pick up about 4 pickup beds full of beer cans from the lease hunters, not to mention about 4000 empty shell casings, shot up water heaters and other garbage. Landowner had not been to the place in 15 years and these guys had been leasing it/trashing it out the entire time.

There are many more bad tenants than good ones. Unfortunately I see it all the time. Lessees’ in most cases just don’t take good care of their lease properties. They are on the take and generally do as little as possible to upkeep the property. I’m not saying you have to spit shine it but don’t trash it out.

When I got off my bandera lease it had been trashed by previous hunters. I offered to set the landowner up with a different hunter, he said he wasn’t gonna lease it to anyone anymore, but if I wanted to come back he would lease to me.

Had too many bad experiences with hunters, but he knew I was like a ghost there so he was fine with me.

I believe that this will be the case.

The absolute best part of owning my own place: There are no deer "experts" ever on it. Man, those guys get old quick.

Hudbone ------- if you are correct, it's not that difficult,,, there are about 30 or 40 people on this forum looking for leases you describe,, since its not that difficult why don't you see how many of them you can help !!! I doubt seriously if you can find 1.

At same stand point many on this thread that have 2-3 leases, or multiple spots on leases

Everyone has different priorities and different needs.

I haven’t been in the game long, but have 2 decent leases. Run one and just have a spot on the other.. I think for the most part leases will always be around, long as you have the pocket to front the bill. If someone buys a place at 300-400k in today’s market, not type of property I’d more an likely be looking to lease anyway,
unless it’s one special small parcel.

Here you go this was a great one...till you crapped all over it with another trolling post..... https://texashuntingforum.com/forum...available-on-our-pitchfork-ranch-pasture

Yeah his is a troll for sure - admins should boot him

He was saying it’s not difficult to do the right thing as a person, not that finding a lease was not that difficult

You wanna talk to the deer experts just go see your neighbor.


They are pro staff after all....

Gee tlk,,, anyone that disagrees with you needs to be 'booted' ------- the liberal woke dems would be proud of you !!!!!!!!!!!

I see your from Belton TX so am I. Hell I would have been happy to invite you over to see the giant mule deer I killed on the lease advertised in the lease section before you trolled it.

I get in deals of all kinds expecting people to treat me like I will treat them. I have to be ever mindful, because it does not happen often enough. When it does, all is golden. Our current landowner treated us ways differently 10 years ago than he does now. We just always told him the truth, paid attention, minded his rules, kept the place clean, encouraged the strengths of the natural resources on the place and well, pretty much took care of the place. This mindset is paying off in spades.

Somes here just cannot be helped as that means they would have to be willing. Others can't find good places because they don't pay attention.

No need for admin's, Sapper got this handled.

Exactly how I read Hudbone's post as well.

This here. I have bought 3 places & everyone of them the past hunters had left trash, old trailers, old rotted out blinds etc. Really opens your eyes to how many lease hunters don't take care of a place. I know plenty do ,but its not worth the risk of getting bad ones to me. I will never lease out any land I own. After being on leases for 40 years & seeing 3 places I bought looking like dumps , I would never lease. I honestly believe it is getting worse,because lots of people are me ,myself & I nowadays.

Truth!

you asked, here it is - both leases I got on came as a result of friends asking me to join up with them. In each instance, they took me down to look over the place, explained the rules and we discussed the positive & negative aspects of the place.

Well, ive been somewhat out of pocket for a few days and this thread really took off. Its shot off on some tangents that I wont take time to address. As for the original question.... I think the future of leases as well as hunting will have challenges in the future. As large places are broken up, as well as gobbled up by urban sprawl, then supply and demand will continue to drive up the price. Hopefully the sky will not fall on hunting in my lifetime, but many would say the sky is falling on everything.

Good discussion on lease trends. In our area in the southeast corner of Gillespie County Fredericksburg area, the ranches are all about 100 to 1000 acres. When I was growing up, every place had a hunting camp on it and was leased for hunting. Opening morning of deer season was like World War II. The old neighbors of German descent all were hunters and leased their land to long term hunters from Houston and Dallas. They were not just hunters, they were long term friends of the family also. Everyone looked forward to deer season and the hunters coming in. Fredericksburg was crowded with hunters buying groceries, ammunition and supplies. It was an exciting time for everyone, hunters, stores and landowners.

Today, all of the deer camps are gone. I don't know of a single active deer camp within 5 miles of our place. If I hear 5 shots opening morning that's a lot. All of the German neighbors are gone and with them the traditions as well. The kids have either sold the place or are living on it and take an occasional deer or Axis or only allow family to hunt. My new neighbors do not have any interest in hunting or leasing their land. They put their land in a Wildlife Exemption and it goes out of production and access. I don't blame them. They moved here to experience rural living and the benefit that goes with it. In Fredericksburg, opening weekend hunter activity is hardly noticeable. All of the supplies are now purchased and brought in before they come. Hunting season is like a non-event now.

Times have changed hunting leases at least in our area. I miss the earlier and simpler times when hunting leases were plentiful. A time to meet with old friends that brought you a good bottle of Jack Daniels. The times sitting around their camp fire after the morning hunt waiting for home made biscuits and eggs and bacon to be served from an iron skillet off of the campfire while hunting stories were exchanged. Coffee out of the old coffee pot beside the campfire that would burn the hair off of your tongue on the first sip. Yeah, I miss those days.

oldrancher, Im not doubting what you say is true but I am very surprised by what you say. I havent hunted the Hill Country in a very long time but I still thought the small towns were packed and crazy busy during hunting season. I hate to question you since youre comments seem so first hand and specific but I wonder if its just sight specific to your immediate area. Maybe hunters are becoming so much more selective about what they shoot and they stretch out the time period over the whole season more, that you just dont hear as much shooting as before....? Somebody chime in and please tell me the hunting crowds in Llano and Mason etc arent shriveling up and going away....

Got tired of deer lease thing years ago and we bought our own place, sooo much better and less to put up with!

It is my area specific I was describing. Llano county and western hill country are still thriving for hunting activity. The ranches in those areas are larger and have not seen the growth that the Fredericksburg area has because of it's smaller places. Now north of Fredericksburg in the Doss area and towards Mason those are still very active hunting areas and I would hope that continues. Going to Llano and west on any hunting weekend reminds me of what Fredericksburg used to be.

maybe the new land owners bought it for thar family/friends hunting opertunities...
If i had that kinda money & bought land, wouldn't lease it, be for family/friends...
As far as [i]topic...
Hunting leases be a thing of the past...

For me, enjoyed the people that shared the lease with, as many have said, the campfires, stories told...
Whin ya in d stand it's you & nature...
leasing got too expensive...
WMA's were afordable, & enjoyed chatting with other hunters...

Leasing will continue for those who can afford it...
Pay ta play not my ...
Have seen were more land tis being purchased for public...
Best wishs.
Social distancing from MN...

They just opened a Los Cazadores in Stonewall and Fredericksburg so I wouldn't say hunting is a footnote in that area but land use has certainly changed. Fredericksburg sees much more tourist traffic for Wineries, shopping and music than from hunting. Also, alot of hunters just don't go into town anymore.

What is going on is a change in demographic. People are buying land to enjoy, and are not leasing it out. Not saying they don't hunt it, but its family and guests and they don't have people there all the time.

I sold a ranch a few years back to a friend of mine, just west of Luckenbach. Was owned by an out of state owner who leased it to a group of people from Houston. She had a need being an absentee owner, to generate some income off it, so she leased to a group. They killed, what i would say, was too many deer off the ranch and certainly didn't understand age classes as their buck harvest didn't include anything older than 3 1/2 years old, per their harvest records.

So buddy buys it, lease hunters move on. They have the means to improve the ranch and don't need the hunting income. They own a hunting ranch in South Texas and do most of their hunting there. So, in the past several years there have been just a few deer taken off it by guests. I have 100% open access to go take my kids or myself up there and shoot whatever I want, but I don't have the time. in a nutshell, this is the changing demographic.....not anti-hunting or non-hunting owners, just people who are not 100% focused on hunting their properties.

I would say that in the place of lease hunters more family and invited guests have taken there place, which isn't a bad thing as they may not have had the opportunity to hunt had the current landowners decided to continue to lease. I know many folks who have killed their first deer in years, or sometimes ever, as a result of landowner invites that would not have been possible had the place been under lease.

I will also add with liberal bag limits and long seasons opening day isn't as revered as it once was.

By the time the 1st saturday in November rolls around I've already been hunting for a month, sometimes 2. I can wait a few weeks until dates line up right to get in the woods.

100% on this TxTro. Kind of what I was saying earlier about how and when we hunt has changed. Opening day/weekend used to be a huge tradition and many hunters just wanted to shoot anything and then it was over. Most are much more selective now and it takes longer to find the right one. Also, the entire experience of the hunt and the camp life just makes many just want to spend more time afield instead of just shoot and done. Also, archery hunting is more popular and the success is harder so that stretches out the hunting opportunities. Of course the added month of archery and MLD keeps that opening weekend mad rush from peaking right then.
I guess this is skewing off topic a little but still close.

we hunted a ranch in Utopia that had 13 members on the lease. By the time the 2nd weekend of deer season rolled around 11 or 12 members had tagged out already....most of them did it on Opening Weekend, every single year. They didn't know the hunting was best the week of Thanksgiving, they were content to go to a few work weekends during the year, then show up opening day and whack a 2 year old 8 point and head home.


I would also say that most people hunt smarter than our forefathers did. I don't miss a lot of "traditions" because in hindsight they did things backwards.

Our place is west of Luckenbach also. I agree with all of the points you made. Change is not always a bad thing because it does allow for another mindset to be introduced for hunting opportunities when the land is not under a lease. Our property is no longer under a lease agreement which gives me the freedom to invite a father and his son or daughter or friend to come out to hunt. The grandkids have the freedom to hunt where they want to and when they want to and can bring a friend. Even though I miss the camp fire days with the old hunters I find it now a better experience with the young hunters or a friend that I have given the opportunity to hunt. The kids get to spend time with their Dad and they will never forget that experience.

IMO Hunting crowd hasnt shrunk in the berg. City has just grown up so large it consumes and covers it well.

While both Mason and llano have grown significantly they haven’t gotten big enough to swallow the hunting traffic.

Castell is a perfect example of hunting being still very alive and well.

TxTro, your picking up my slack again. I meant to point out that hunters are more knowledgeable now and often don’t hunt opening weekend cause it’s not always the most productive time. Earlier hunting, bucks may still be in a more predictable pattern. Late season they may be patterned around a less available, but much needed, food source. And then there’s the tut. None of those times may not coincide with opening day and thus stretch out that crazy peak associated with opening weekend.

I miss the hunting camps. I miss the sitting around the campfire and no mater where you sat the smoke got in your eyes.
I miss everyone congratulating the hunter who was lucky enough to bring in a deer. No one ever said, "what does it score?"
They just slapped him on the back, and started helping him skin it out while someone was frying the bacon and someone else
peeling the potato's.
Times have changed.

I agree mostly. I do miss the simple times around the camp fire, but I also enjoy seeing 15+ deer very sit and 140+ inch deer annually.

I do miss those times, I enjoyed that part of it as much as the hunting if not more. I haven’t got to experience that in a long time, it’s the one big negative part of hunting your own place without other members.

I didn't read the entire thread - so not sure if it was mentioned - but a good chunk of people buying land right now (at least it seems in my area from several people I've spoken to) are out of state folks from the NE or California. People who you could assume have zero interest in hunting - nor allowing anyone to hunt. I think the Texas migration has trickled over into rural land and leasing opportunities will also suffer from that since the majority of these people bring their liberal mindset with them.

Plenty of activity in Llano and San Saba county opening week-end and after. Sitting at the light at the intersection of hwy. 29 and hwy. 16 in Llano opening week-end is entertaining in it's self. Seeing all the vehicles and gear loaded on those vehicles is impressive. In Llano the amount of customers in the Lowes grocery stocking up on groceries is impressive.
Will agree we don't seem to hear as many shots fired in the distance as in the past.

The California influx has been largely overblown. I’ve sold more ranches to people from Louisiana than I have from California.

There are some California investors floating around bit there always have been.

There are a lot of California money buying land on the fringes of metro areas but they are not inundating rural area.

And most are escaping liberalism not bringing it here

I grew up hunting the same as you described above. However as I got older I had a passion to try to shoot bigger deer and did so - even though we would all ask what the score is we still would sit around the fire and have a great time - times have changed on everything - some good and some bad - but I have never understood why wanting to shoot a larger buck than your last is a bad thing - to me it is human nature

I can understand Mr T but I identify(did I type that) with titan better, and tlks later post as well. We have 18 on one lease and we have a lot of comradery and patting on the back when a buck is killed. We also see a whole lot of deer and kill a lot of big ones. You dont have to give up one to have the other. If fact the closeness of our group creates a bond and like mindedness that helps us reach our mutual goals of killing older and bigger bucks. Fun, hard work and big deer all go together(or can).

Bought my own place a LONG time ago, about 40 years ago, in Montague County just South of Bowie. $415 per acre of “recreational property” that didn’t even have a road through it. In those days we heard a lot of shots during November and some in December. Don’t hear a lot these days other than my anti hunting neighbor who starts shooting a pistol early on deer season weekend mornings and starting again in the afternoon.

I believe I heard 3 or 4 shots during deer season last year. Lots of non leased bigger properties around me. Being within 100 miles of D/FW, I would expect more hunters. And, once Grandsons get their deer, I’ve seen the last of them.

In Leon County a person could hear a lot of shots on opening morning in the late 1960's and during the 1970's, don't hear much anymore. Have a feeling a lot of the lack of shots is Antler Restrictions and the limited days for does.

Most of neighbors have quit leasing. The got tired of folks not following the rules.

Mine were not following the rules, they do now. Think they forgot who was paying the taxes.

Our neighbors did that. Kinda disappointed our landowner didn't buy at $1,700 an acre while they sold it for $8,000 in 10 acre parcels that look like total crap now. New one up the road is up to $15,000 an acre. You couldn't give away land for $2,000 a few years ago. Good thing is you can't hunt land with no cover and you see your neighbors in every direction so keeps game on our place.

Luckily we lease from multi-generational landowners who own lots of land outright and hopefully will continue to lease forever. The kids who are now my age live in town and work in the city and have no plans or motive to sell.

But I have very wealthy friends who have bought up and kicked off 20+ lessors out who had to buy their own places or find new leases taking other guys out. Most just quit hunting flat out though. I can't find places for my friends to lease at all. We used to have fun hunts on those places but now they just use them for family time and zero hunts. Sucks.

It was funny to hear a few years ago from an old German land owner who owns 1,000s of acres in Mason, only an idiot would pay $3,000 an acre to buy and shoot a deer. He enjoyed the beer we gave him. He still enjoys his millions in land luckily while we pay to use them. As we have for 50+ years.

This is what I remember.
We hunted between stonewall and Fredericksburg for 22 years starting in 1971.
Opening morning did sound like a war zone and the stores were full of people.
I own my own properties now and I am not going to lease it. My kids and grandkids and a few friends hunt them