Texas Hunting Forum

Deer Lease Dispute

Posted By: HogNut

Deer Lease Dispute - 11/09/20 03:29 PM

Opening weekend showed to be an interesting one but not due to the deer. Six of us joined the lease the year, I know the person who found it, we will call him John. At the beginning of the year we discussed having a community lease where we could hunt all of the stands on the lease, if the owner of the stand/feeder wanted to hunt their stand they would have first dibs. One of our leasers bought a trailer and a storage container for the lease and John has said that we are unable to hunt his stand until the owner of the trailer/storage container hunts it. To be clear, John has hunted the stand in question and when asked about it he said we don't know his intentions when he sat the stand but he took his bow with him so I assume that he is hunting. I brought up that if were going to start making rules we need to put this down on paper, put it to a vote by all leasers and then if the rules are broken, you are liable to be kicked off the lease. I was then told that this is not a democracy. I am not into drama but I wanted to have an adult conversation which seemed to be impossible, John said I can go find another lease if I don't like it.

Am out of line for pushing the issue? Is this something normal?
Posted By: 603Country

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/09/20 03:35 PM

Live with it for the season. I left a lease one year due to the self appointed idiot that ‘ran’ it.
Posted By: angus1956

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/09/20 03:35 PM

Shoot your deer this year and move on. You go to the lease to relax, enjoy good friends and maybe shoot a nice deer. Life's too short for chit like this.
What if some night at the lease and a few drinks are had by all it could get ugly with people speaking their minds.
Posted By: DLALLDER

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/09/20 03:36 PM

That's the problem getting on a lease without rules & reg. in writing before you pay your money.
Posted By: hook_n_line

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/09/20 03:43 PM

bang good luck but I would move on.
Posted By: 4Weight

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/09/20 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by angus1956
Shoot your deer this year and move on. You go to the lease to relax, enjoy good friends and maybe shoot a nice deer. Life's too short for chit like this.
What if some night at the lease and a few drinks are had by all it could get ugly with people speaking their minds.


Solid take here and I fully agree.
Posted By: Dalroo

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/09/20 03:49 PM

I was on a lease for two years with a lease manager who did some things I did not agree with - and I always felt I was being treated as a guest following dictates, as opposed to a full-paying partner. I stayed for as long as I did because it was the only place I had at the time and the price was right, but I did find a solution.

Instead of hunting when the other members were there (weekenders), I took vacation and went out during the week. Not everyone has this flexibility, I know, but I would go out on Sunday afternoon and hunt when and where I wanted until Friday afternoon, and then leave before anyone else showed. It eliminated the camaraderie of a lease, but I prefer solitude anyway, so it was fine for me. I was careful not to do anything that would infringe on others and treated things as I would want them treated, so really never caused anymore drama.

The final straw was when I received a call that the group was moving to a new property and I was just expected to follow - sight unseen. I said no, and worked out another deal on a place in Oklahoma instead.
Posted By: Rustler

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/09/20 04:04 PM

There really isn't a ' normal ' deer lease structure.
Supposed to be relaxing, fun no hassle no drama kind of place, of course when you get a group of folks together that don't know each other well basic common sense rules are usually necessary.

First red flag is a lease that has 6 openings, especially within 2 ~ 3 hours of the metromess.
Second red flag is a lease being offered without a written lease contract & clearly stated rules to read before signing up & handing over money.

The type of (my way or the highway no questions asked) 'lease boss' that won't discuss things with lease members in an adult manner usually have motives and things to hide.

My advice is make the best of it and hunt this year, start looking for a new place to hunt now.
Best bet is to deal directly with the LO if at all possible.
Posted By: booskay

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/09/20 04:09 PM

You said you know "John" the person who found the lease ------------- apparently you dont know him very well. He is in charge and does whatever he wants ---------- NOW you know him better !!! Next year dont get on "his" lease.
Posted By: HogNut

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/09/20 04:36 PM

Ive known "John" for 8-9 years, he's my best friend's father in-law. It's known for him to have a temper but I have never been on the receiving end of it. This is a first lease for all of us but one of the members (we took over the entire lease from the LO as he kicked the previous guys off for being idiots). I have spent quite a lot of time helping out my best friend putting in sweat equity and learning on their lease over the years. It's unfortunate as the lease is producing great deer and is a target rich environment when you add in the hogs, dove, quail, ducks. I have spoken with the son in law (my best bud) depending how this shakes out we might try to find a new spot in the next year or 2.
Posted By: Creekrunner

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/09/20 04:41 PM

I love to hunt, but I woulda packed my crap immediately after his "edict". 'Wouldn't give him the power over me for the rest of the season. Killing a dang deer isn't worth that. Small-minded people that probably never had to manage employees in real life. I do not tolerate sphincters.
Posted By: glocker17

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/09/20 04:49 PM

Put a lock on your blind now and hunt only it. Shoot every legal deer you can and start looking for next year. This won't get any better.
Posted By: redchevy

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/09/20 06:17 PM

If its an ok lease then get over it and keep your nose out of it its not your stand. If you cant get over it move on.
Posted By: Jimbo

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/09/20 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by redchevy
If its an ok lease then get over it and keep your nose out of it its not your stand. If you cant get over it move on.


This ^^^ and never ever go over the head of who runs the lease and approach the land owner!
The landowner doesn't want to deal with drama unless there is illegal activity going on, and then you would also contact the GW.
Easiest way to get kicked off a lease!
Posted By: Smokey Bear

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/09/20 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by redchevy
If its an ok lease then get over it and keep your nose out of it its not your stand. If you cant get over it move on.


This. Getting bent about not being able to hunt someone else’s stand is not going to fly on almost all good leases.
Posted By: Biscuit

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/09/20 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by 603Country
Live with it for the season. I left a lease one year due to the self appointed idiot that ‘ran’ it.


agreed
Posted By: DQ Kid

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/09/20 07:11 PM

If it's target rich as you described, who cares. Those deer are moving around to all the spots and feeders. Life is too short to hunt a particular blind/feeder...
Posted By: Hudbone

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/09/20 07:30 PM

You asked, he told you, deal with it. If you aren't in control, then no sense being PO'd about something you have no control over. Especially with so much time in front of you. Learn and move on if necessary. You might end up having a good time in spite of yourself. Who knows? Give it a chance.
Posted By: titan2232

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/09/20 07:42 PM

So everyone has their own spots, but it's also a community situation? That sounds like a mess

IMO either community or individual spots can work, but not both.
Posted By: redchevy

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/09/20 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by titan2232
So everyone has their own spots, but it's also a community situation? That sounds like a mess

IMO either community or individual spots can work, but not both.


Heck for us we have all community blinds and its me my dad and brother. We struggle enough to decide who sits where, but its probably more because nobody wants to be a hog we all want each other to do well and we all know that some of the blinds are better than others.
Posted By: maximus_flavius

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/09/20 08:20 PM

If a lease has so many rules that they must be written down, it has too many rules.
Posted By: HogNut

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/09/20 08:54 PM

We all purchased or supplied a blind and feeder but the idea was to have shared stands.
Posted By: maximus_flavius

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/09/20 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by kyle.fricke
We all purchased or supplied a blind and feeder but the idea was to have shared stands.


That doesn’t sound like what’s happening.
Posted By: freerange

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/09/20 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by maximus_flavius
If a lease has so many rules that they must be written down, it has too many rules.

You are entitled to that opinion and many share that idea, but for what its worth there are a lot of excellent leases that have written rules.
Posted By: freerange

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/09/20 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by kyle.fricke
We all purchased or supplied a blind and feeder but the idea was to have shared stands.

Thats the way ours works and it works great. I would never want to be on a large lease but then have to just stay in one area. It can create some issues but all leases have potential issues. Likeminded lease members is the key but that can be hard to achieve and based on all the complaining I hear(not just this thread by any means) it is not the norm.
Posted By: Gringocazador

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/09/20 10:10 PM

I’ve been on all kinds of leases with all kinds of rules. The one rule I do not like is the hunt any stand ya want rule as long as the guys it belongs to is not in it.

So here is why, I build a nice elevated stand with deerview windows that are dang near 50 bucks a piece. Carpet, heater, nice chair and when you not on the lease the guys fight over it. They want to hunt the nice blind cause they are to lazy to build a decent one or keep a feeder going. They check your cards on your trail cams and never put the cards back in and no one seems to know what happed. I go to get in my stand, windows left open, blind rained in, water bottles with piss all over the place along with trash, beer cans and cigarette busts put out in the carpet. One lease I was on you would have thought a homeless guy moved in. These are guys I worked with for over 20 years.

I’m not on those kind leases any more. Place I’m on you get a spot and you hunt your blind and that’s it. The one I’m on now has the best set of simple rules I’ve ever been on. We never have any trouble. We may not have the best deer but we have no trouble.
Posted By: 1860.colt

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/09/20 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by titan2232
So everyone has their own spots, but it's also a community situation? That sounds like a mess

IMO either community or individual spots can work, but not both.



Leases was on.
Opening weekend each hunted own stand...
We had board, with a nail for each stand.
Took a washer, name on it. Put were U were gonna hunt, each person had first option ta thar stand.
Was set up that way in meetings, had no problems...

flag
Posted By: tlk

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/09/20 11:06 PM

"John said I can go find another lease if I don't like it."


THERE is your answer - I would finish the season and pack up and leave as fast as I could - you don't want any part of this drama believe me
Posted By: tlk

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/09/20 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by titan2232
So everyone has their own spots, but it's also a community situation? That sounds like a mess

IMO either community or individual spots can work, but not both.




agree totally - either it is community and first come first serve or it is each hunter has his area and stand and nobody goes there - for our lease? First come first serve -
Posted By: Hudbone

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/10/20 12:05 AM

Came from a place where communal blinds were in place after the 2nd weekend. Tay Tay shot his two biggest bucks out of my set up. I love that man. Never shot a qualifying buck there in 14 years.

Moved to a place where everyone has their own pasture and absolutely love it. Asked Prudhomme to come hunt and he shot the largest typical reported on TBGA low fence South Texas. I love that man.

It is what is. Make it work.
Posted By: Texas Dan

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/10/20 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by Hudbone
Came from a place where communal blinds were in place after the 2nd weekend.


This is how I've seen it work best as well. I've also known leases that would extend this rule through Thanksgiving Weekend. After that, all stands were considered "open" to any hunter, with the stand owner retaining first priority for the length of the season. Still, out of common courtesy and respect, hunters would ask another hunter before hunting his or her stand. It was a good way to uncover anyone who didn't share the positive spirit and camaraderie of the lease.
Posted By: tlk

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/10/20 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by Hudbone
Came from a place where communal blinds were in place after the 2nd weekend. Tay Tay shot his two biggest bucks out of my set up. I love that man. Never shot a qualifying buck there in 14 years.

Moved to a place where everyone has their own pasture and absolutely love it. Asked Prudhomme to come hunt and he shot the largest typical reported on TBGA low fence South Texas. I love that man.

It is what is. Make it work.



Hudbone - I get what you are saying but a communal blind is not someone else's set up IMO - Community blinds means first come first serve and nobody "owns" a blind or an area or a deer. Over my years I have seen the number one problem with leases is when members get "territorial" - just my take - you sound like a guy I could hunt with though - you enjoy seeing seeing others kill their biggest deer
Posted By: Texas Dan

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/10/20 12:30 AM

Originally Posted by tlk
Hudbone - I get what you are saying but a communal blind is not someone else's set up IMO - Community blinds means first come first serve and nobody "owns" a blind or an area or a deer. Over my years I have seen the number one problem with leases is when members get "territorial" - just my take - you sound like a guy I could hunt with though - you enjoy seeing seeing others kill their biggest deer


Seen that as well. They're often the stands of those who have left the lease so they no longer have an owner. Someone comes along and adopts them as their own, especially if the former owner took a lot of deer at them.
Posted By: DQ Kid

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/10/20 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by maximus_flavius
If a lease has so many rules that they must be written down, it has too many rules.

Couldn't agree more, too many rules, too many things for folks to fixate on as "violated" and shortly after the fun is diminished...
Posted By: PMK

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/10/20 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by freerange
Originally Posted by maximus_flavius
If a lease has so many rules that they must be written down, it has too many rules.

You are entitled to that opinion and many share that idea, but for what its worth there are a lot of excellent leases that have written rules.

and typically those written rules are put in place by people not following the discussed rules in the first place ... in most cases. I have been on leases where it was merely an agreed to standard or rules, spoken only. Then after a year or two, people started bending those to meet their desires, then comes into play written rules, and typically those same people start bending those, which brings in more rules ... so on and so forth. People will be people and tend to focus on themselves most of the time. Just how the world goes around. No need to get feathers ruffled until rules are in writing for all to share and live by. Life is just too short.
Posted By: Creekrunner

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/10/20 02:09 PM

I've mentioned on here before, I was a guest at a nice lease years ago. In EACH BLIND there were posted (as in on the wall) rules, must have been 10 pages. (It was a group of San Antonio lawyers.)

I think that's carrying it a bit too far.
Posted By: tlk

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/10/20 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by freerange
Originally Posted by kyle.fricke
We all purchased or supplied a blind and feeder but the idea was to have shared stands.

Thats the way ours works and it works great. I would never want to be on a large lease but then have to just stay in one area. It can create some issues but all leases have potential issues. Likeminded lease members is the key but that can be hard to achieve and based on all the complaining I hear(not just this thread by any means) it is not the norm.


What Freerange says - if you get the right members on a lease and everyone (including the lease manager) follows the common sense rules then it avoids a lot of drama.

I have been on leases with written rules but they were not enforced - result? Chaos - No thank you
Posted By: GLC

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/10/20 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by Gringocazador
I’ve been on all kinds of leases with all kinds of rules. The one rule I do not like is the hunt any stand ya want rule as long as the guys it belongs to is not in it.

So here is why, I build a nice elevated stand with deerview windows that are dang near 50 bucks a piece. Carpet, heater, nice chair and when you not on the lease the guys fight over it. They want to hunt the nice blind cause they are to lazy to build a decent one or keep a feeder going. They check your cards on your trail cams and never put the cards back in and no one seems to know what happed. I go to get in my stand, windows left open, blind rained in, water bottles with piss all over the place along with trash, beer cans and cigarette busts put out in the carpet. One lease I was on you would have thought a homeless guy moved in. These are guys I worked with for over 20 years.

I’m not on those kind leases any more. Place I’m on you get a spot and you hunt your blind and that’s it. The one I’m on now has the best set of simple rules I’ve ever been on. We never have any trouble. We may not have the best deer but we have no trouble.

I agree
Posted By: TiggerV

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/10/20 04:48 PM

Maybe my lease is too territorial, but if I supply the feeder, the blind, the corn, the camera, the scouting for the spot, and the clearing of shooting lanes, I guess I would consider it MY PLACE. On the lease that I am on, everyone has their own hunting area. There is a disparity in what some members can afford. One guy has a 4x8 10 ft elevated boxed in tower, while another only has tripod seats. All of us use primarily our own spots. Now, we also CAN ask to use another spot, but that is totally up to the owners discretion. And quite often when a person uses another spot, that comes with stipulations (doe only, leave a certain buck or certain size bucks). And if you leave the owners spot a mess, well, next time you ask you will be told NO. Honestly, the "my spot, my rules" rules that we have at our place really keeps the drama to a minimum. Everyone buys their own corn and supplies their own gear. Now for shooting lanes and filling corn, we all pitch in and do what is needed for each other.

The old man who found the place makes the rules, as lease head. Most of these rules are from the land owner, but he added a few (mostly for safety and are common sense). All the rules are more than reasonable. Any issues, we go to him and he makes a decision.

Of course, we have all been hunting this CURRENT place together for 15 to 20 years. By now most of the issues have been well worked out. And it does help that the group that hunts is DAD, SON, DAD's BEST FRIEND, DAD's NEPHEW, and NEPHEW'S best friend.
Posted By: Tbar

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/10/20 05:13 PM

Lock the blind door.
Posted By: Ol Thumper

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/10/20 05:37 PM

I have combo locks on my blinds, keeps anyone out I don’t want in thr period..
Posted By: Texas Dan

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/10/20 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by TiggerV
The old man who found the place makes the rules, as lease head. Most of these rules are from the land owner, but he added a few (mostly for safety and are common sense). All the rules are more than reasonable. Any issues, we go to him and he makes a decision.


I've seen leases that were run by a dictator that worked quite well, especially when it involved family members who needed someone to keep them in line. This type of lease also seems to work even better when the dictator is the one who hunts the least. The only problem is finding a good dictator. Problems can also pop up after the dictator passes and one of the family members takes over his role.
Posted By: tlk

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/11/20 01:50 AM

Originally Posted by Ol Thumper
I have combo locks on my blinds, keeps anyone out I don’t want in thr period..



maybe it is just me but to have to lock other lease members out of my blind does not seem like a fun or long term situation
Posted By: Buzzsaw

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/11/20 02:32 AM

all the reasons i will never lease again. sooner or later drama comes calling and i'm too old and crotchety to deal with it..


i only hunt package hunts or free hunts. clap
Posted By: Ol Thumper

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/11/20 03:07 AM

Originally Posted by tlk
Originally Posted by Ol Thumper
I have combo locks on my blinds, keeps anyone out I don’t want in thr period..



maybe it is just me but to have to lock other lease members out of my blind does not seem like a fun or long term situation


I don’t have lease mates, I was referring literally to anyone that would wonder through. I figured the idea might help his situation out.
Posted By: Fltmedic

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/11/20 03:37 AM

Enjoy this season as much as you can and move on after it’s over. I go to the ranch to relax, not to have drama. Lease I’m on is a good place decent dudes but I’m the odd man out. I’m the only one not related to anyone else and this year it’s more apparent. I’ll enjoy this year and move on afterwards. Kinda tough being a single hunter looking for a spot, but most of friends have given it up because they don’t wanna pay to play anymore.
Posted By: Hudbone

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/11/20 10:46 AM

the issue here may well be drama will follow the OP.
Posted By: TX_LT230FH

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/11/20 12:33 PM

Reading all these makes me look to the heavens and say again "Thank you, Lord for blessing me with my own place".
Lived through a lot of the scenarios above. Lease "manager" that was making rules every day and breaking them the next, lease "manager" that wanted us to call when we were going out so he could "make sure the feeders were working" when he was really just making sure we weren't catching him out there with his paid "day hunters", etc. etc.
Some good memories on a lot of the leases over the years, but times (and people) have changed.
Posted By: tlk

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/11/20 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by TX_LT230FH
Reading all these makes me look to the heavens and say again "Thank you, Lord for blessing me with my own place".
Lived through a lot of the scenarios above. Lease "manager" that was making rules every day and breaking them the next, lease "manager" that wanted us to call when we were going out so he could "make sure the feeders were working" when he was really just making sure we weren't catching him out there with his paid "day hunters", etc. etc.
Some good memories on a lot of the leases over the years, but times (and people) have changed.


I owned my own hunting property and lived on it. Loved it but I also missed the chance to hunt with other good hunters and people and enjoy camp life. Have been my current lease now for 13 years and love it -have made some great friends over the years and we all root for each other to take a trophy deer
Posted By: Gringo Bling

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/11/20 02:35 PM

I don't think it's that big of a deal to have written lease rule that apply to everyone, including the head guy on the lease. That's how my last lease was and guys generally abided by the rules. When an egregious rule was broken, there was a fine to keep guys in line. I'm OK with that.

I'm on a lease now where there are only a few verbal rules and everyone is expected to hunt and behave within reason. It's my first year on this lease, so we'll see how it goes.

Depending on the group of people, some people need hard and fast rules and some people only need common sense and courtesy.
Posted By: allterrain

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/12/20 11:53 PM

The lease I am on used to be a communal lease, we shared the work, the cost of the corn, electric bills etc and we would draw cards before each hunt. High card got stand choice. I eventually became lease manager and kept the rules in place until the group of guys that I have now and they only wanted to hunt there own stand. So this works out better for me because I never drew high card before, so now I have the place that was always my favorite and where my tower is. All mine now.
Posted By: LeonCarr

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/13/20 12:09 AM

Originally Posted by Buzzsaw
all the reasons i will never lease again. sooner or later drama comes calling and i'm too old and crotchety to deal with it..


i only hunt package hunts or free hunts. clap

Exactly this. If I saw again some of the jackwagons I have been on deer leases with I would be in jail or the penitentiary. Life is too short for drama like that.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr
Posted By: Texas Dan

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/14/20 11:35 PM

Nothing can change a man's demeanor any quicker than a deer rifle.
Posted By: jhunter77

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/16/20 05:08 PM

My place is 300 acres has 3 feeders setup and there are 2 of us that hunt it regularly if one of us take a buddy we ask that they buy 2 bags of corn and really don't put rules on where they hunt or what they kill. We hunt all 3 sets and have 2 large wheat fields we threw pop up blinds in. If one of us hunt the wheat fields then their blind is open. I built box blinds and they're big enough for 3 to hunt people. We have 2 300lb feeders and one 225lb feeder that we keep full. each of us take a couple bags of corn each trip and top off feeders. But we don't fight or argue about the area we plan to hunt. We choose before we all get there. We have the named the wheat field, the road blind, the bottom field, and the woods. I like to hunt the bottom field but if my buddy says he wants to hunt there oh well I'll go to another spot. We just try to ride together and the person that hunts the bottom field drops everyone else off since you basically drive past or close to the other spots.
Posted By: My Time to Hunt

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/16/20 06:37 PM

When you have multiple paid hunters on a lease. You need a lease manger and a set of rules written up by the lease manager and signed at the start of each hunting year. If you cant live with the rules set out then find you another lease. The lease we hunt on has a map of the lease with marked stand locations. If someone hunts any stand location including their own, its marked with a pen. All stands on our place are open to any paid hunter, if the original hunter is not there or coming down to hunt.
Posted By: don k

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/17/20 12:55 PM

I get mad just reading some of these rules. I am now 74 years old. There are 10 times more rules in everyday life than there were 50 years ago. Now you got lease rules and a manager to enforce them? Amazing
Posted By: tlk

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/17/20 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by don k
I get mad just reading some of these rules. I am now 74 years old. There are 10 times more rules in everyday life than there were 50 years ago. Now you got lease rules and a manager to enforce them? Amazing


no reason to get mad about how someone else runs a lease - as stated here multiple times we all have the freedom to hunt where we want - some folks like a structured lease and some don't - just pick the type that fits you best
Posted By: QuitShootinYoungBucks

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/17/20 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by don k
I get mad just reading some of these rules. I am now 74 years old. There are 10 times more rules in everyday life than there were 50 years ago. Now you got lease rules and a manager to enforce them? Amazing


Have you met today's younger people? Not many of them were raised to 'do right' on their own, and it only takes one louse to screw it up for a whole lot of us. With today's litigious society, rules sadly need to be there to protect the landowner.
Posted By: freerange

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/17/20 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by tlk
Originally Posted by don k
I get mad just reading some of these rules. I am now 74 years old. There are 10 times more rules in everyday life than there were 50 years ago. Now you got lease rules and a manager to enforce them? Amazing


no reason to get mad about how someone else runs a lease - as stated here multiple times we all have the freedom to hunt where we want - some folks like a structured lease and some don't - just pick the type that fits you best

tlk has said this many times and I always agree with him. I couldnt state it any better so I just suggest rereading his.
Posted By: 7mag

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/17/20 06:20 PM

Man. Leases are like wet farts. You just never know when one is going to escape and cause a mess on you. I have been on leases with what I considered "close friends" and on some that just came up and I joined.

I really never had one that was "super smooth". There was always the bickering of stands, work days, feed, bills etc. Take the good with the bad or try and find a better lease. People are not really mentally geared in your favor and vice versa. If we all were to get along we would not need next President elect Joe Biden. Peace.
Posted By: Pigmaster Yoda

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/17/20 10:07 PM

Agreed👍
Posted By: tlk

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/18/20 12:55 AM

I just don't get it. There are leases that are well run with rules that everyone agrees to before signing up. If you read the rules and do not agree with them then don't get on that lease! Pretty simple IMO.

Nobody makes someone else sign up for a lease - at the end of the day each of us makes the decision to join a particular lease. I joined several leases over the years that claimed they were run a certain way and once I realized that they were not run in the manner I was told I left that lease.

In our case our rules are common sense and all our members agree to respect each other and follow the ranch owners guidelines. The lease manager (me) follows the exact same rules as the other members - I have never in 13 years broken one of our rules. In fact I go overboard to make sure I never get any advantage over any other lease member. I have passed on many a trophy deer so that another member could get that deer. I also pay exactly the same money that all the other members pay. Our lease members share pictures and try to help other members get on good deer. I realize this is not the norm but I also know there are other leases run the same way.

So my point is this -just because you have not found a lease run this way do not believe for a second that they do not exist. If you are looking for a lease that has no rules and each hunter does pretty much whatever they want to do then those are out there too - your choice
Posted By: Sniper John

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/18/20 02:35 AM

I will present a different take. John would be the lease manager. John found the lease and good leases usually take some time and work to find. Even bad ones do too these days. He as lease manager I assume handles collecting the money from lease members and trust me that can be a real headache. So he handles the money and deals with the landowner. He would be the one to find and vet any new members each season. As lease manager the absolute suckiest thing he has to do is handle disputes between lease members, landowner, rancher, etc. You can have a democracy, but ultimately someone has to have a final word and that is usually the lease manager or one that found the lease to begin with and that usually ends in him not being liked by one or more lease members at times. If he wants the member who graciously provided a trailer and storage container to have first shot at hunting his stand, so be it. He is the lease manager! If you suspect it's a buddy deal? Oh well. It's just not worth the drama to give him hell if that is all he has done and drama is not what you go to the lease for. It's only one stand out of over half a dozen stands that could be hunted. It will be a done deal and over by next season. Throw principle to the wind and enjoy yourselves. If the hunting sucks or the group still don't mesh, find another to move to before next season. But don't let it ruin this season for you.
Posted By: freerange

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/18/20 03:04 AM

Originally Posted by Sniper John
I will present a different take. John would be the lease manager. John found the lease and good leases usually take some time and work to find. Even bad ones do too these days. He as lease manager I assume handles collecting the money from lease members and trust me that can be a real headache. So he handles the money and deals with the landowner. He would be the one to find and vet any new members each season. As lease manager the absolute suckiest thing he has to do is handle disputes between lease members, landowner, rancher, etc. You can have a democracy, but ultimately someone has to have a final word and that is usually the lease manager or one that found the lease to begin with and that usually ends in him not being liked by one or more lease members at times. If he wants the member who graciously provided a trailer and storage container to have first shot at hunting his stand, so be it. He is the lease manager! If you suspect it's a buddy deal? Oh well. It's just not worth the drama to give him hell if that is all he has done and drama is not what you go to the lease for. It's only one stand out of over half a dozen stands that could be hunted. It will be a done deal and over by next season. Throw principle to the wind and enjoy yourselves. If the hunting sucks or the group still don't mesh, find another to move to before next season. But don't let it ruin this season for you.

This threads been around long enough that ive forgotten the original issue but as far as general comments on the overall subject I think Sniper Johns is real good. Worth a read by anyone leasing with a group.
Posted By: Txduckman

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/21/20 07:06 AM

Sounds like no big deal. Y'all just got on it. Enjoy it. In a few weeks no one will care where y'all sit and hunt.
Posted By: MR5Hunter

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/22/20 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by Texas Dan
Nothing can change a man's demeanor any quicker than a deer rifle.

very well put sir
Posted By: Biscuit

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/22/20 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by Txduckman
Sounds like no big deal. Y'all just got on it. Enjoy it. In a few weeks no one will care where y'all sit and hunt.


Agreed
Posted By: Brother Phil

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/22/20 08:53 PM

I am on year number five as the manager of a lease, and also am a member of another lease. My advice is that if you don't care for the lease you just joined, then move on. How it is run is most likely not going to change. However, I do hope you make the most of it this season. On both leases I mentioned, each member has an assigned area. No one else can hunt it, without permission. Works out great, and is clearly stated in the lease agreement.
Posted By: Gringocazador

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/22/20 10:07 PM

Deer leases can bring out the stupid in people and not just the guys you hunt with some of the ranchers I’ve leased from we’re off the chart bad. Drive 6 hours to hunt and locked out cause rancher decided to have a party and didn’t want anybody there so they could drive around and shoot up the place. My list goes on and on!
Posted By: Dave Davidson

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/23/20 11:58 AM

Is this guy self appointed or was there any discussion about it?
Posted By: Hudbone

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/23/20 12:33 PM

Suggesting a coup?
Posted By: jimbob

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/23/20 05:14 PM

many lease managers make a good deal of money and will get very protective of their income stream. I was on one for a long time in Irion co. Had written rules that all had to sign, but those only applied
to people that didnt kiss his butt. Had to pay Homage to the all powerful manger. He was also the judge of if your deer met the rules which changed every year. He had friends that would come down a week before season ended and fill their tags. Also had to email or call before going to lease and ya know what that means. Finish this year and get the out as fast as ya can
Posted By: Brother Phil

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/23/20 08:52 PM

jimbob, good points about the experience you had. Some leases are run well, some are not. The person on the lease that has to follow the rules to the letter, is the lease manager. If he does not, then the rules do not mean much, and respect from the members is lost. I am not sure how many lease managers make an income stream off a lease. Sometimes their spot is subsidized. Also they may be responsible personally for any spots that are not filled, and have to come out of pocket (I have). It is easier to find a lease you enjoy, pay the fee, and enjoy it, versus being the manager.
Posted By: tlk

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/23/20 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by Brother Phil
jimbob, good points about the experience you had. Some leases are run well, some are not. The person on the lease that has to follow the rules to the letter, is the lease manager. If he does not, then the rules do not mean much, and respect from the members is lost. I am not sure how many lease managers make an income stream off a lease. Sometimes their spot is subsidized. Also they may be responsible personally for any spots that are not filled, and have to come out of pocket (I have). It is easier to find a lease you enjoy, pay the fee, and enjoy it, versus being the manager.


You got that right! I have been lease manager for 13 years and I pay the same amount that all the lease members pay. In fact if I counted my gas, etc. I end up paying more than any member.
I also agree that the lease manager has to follow the rules to the letter and not take advantage of the position in anyway.

I am also the only name on the lease so I am responsible for paying the LO all of the money whether I find hunters to fill the spots or not. To me the number one job (and most difficult) is to find the right fit for our ranch and camp when I have to find a new lease member.

Many hours spent but all in all I enjoy it because we have such a good group of folks on the lease.
Posted By: ILUVBIGBUCKS

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/24/20 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by 603Country
Live with it for the season. I left a lease one year due to the self appointed idiot that ‘ran’ it.

^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^


Shoot your allotted deer this year and get the hell off.

Lease rules should be in writing and crystal clear. If they are not, this is what you get!

I do NOT like community stands one bit unless all feed throughout the year is 'community purchased'.
Unless all feed is bought as a group and dispensed you will always have those that spend much more and feed much more than others yet those that don't spend that extra money always gravitate to the other stands of other hunters who've spent the money and fed more because they've typically drawn more and better deer in!
Posted By: HogNut

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/24/20 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Dave Davidson
Is this guy self appointed or was there any discussion about it?


self appointed because he "found" the place (ex. he called a broker).
Posted By: Hudbone

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/24/20 02:35 PM

What you ought to do is stir up more drama, get the guys all together and have a vote or start an uprising.

What does it matter?
Posted By: freerange

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/24/20 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by ILUVBIGBUCKS
Originally Posted by 603Country
Live with it for the season. I left a lease one year due to the self appointed idiot that ‘ran’ it.

^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^


Shoot your allotted deer this year and get the hell off.

Lease rules should be in writing and crystal clear. If they are not, this is what you get!

I do NOT like community stands one bit unless all feed throughout the year is 'community purchased'.
Unless all feed is bought as a group and dispensed you will always have those that spend much more and feed much more than others yet those that don't spend that extra money always gravitate to the other stands of other hunters who've spent the money and fed more because they've typically drawn more and better deer in!



Iluv, I would of assumed that a community stands lease also shares the feed costs within the community. On ours, once the equipment is set up everything is shared. We equally share the feed costs as well as paying a member to fill them. They are all filled at the same time and set to throw the same amounts at the same times. All batteries and repairs etc are shared. Hardly any of our members probably even knows who actually owns the equipment,
Posted By: titan2232

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/24/20 05:08 PM

We have 10-12 individual feeder locations and I'd be willing to bet maybe 4-5 of those spots have working/functional equipment currently. My Ranch King blind is sealed up and locked with all my needed items inside and my feeders are still half full and fully charged.

I'm very picky about my stuff working correctly and could not stand a community setup 2cents
Posted By: ILUVBIGBUCKS

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/24/20 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by freerange
Originally Posted by ILUVBIGBUCKS
Originally Posted by 603Country
Live with it for the season. I left a lease one year due to the self appointed idiot that ‘ran’ it.

^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^


Shoot your allotted deer this year and get the hell off.

Lease rules should be in writing and crystal clear. If they are not, this is what you get!

I do NOT like community stands one bit unless all feed throughout the year is 'community purchased'.
Unless all feed is bought as a group and dispensed you will always have those that spend much more and feed much more than others yet those that don't spend that extra money always gravitate to the other stands of other hunters who've spent the money and fed more because they've typically drawn more and better deer in!



Iluv, I would of assumed that a community stands lease also shares the feed costs within the community. On ours, once the equipment is set up everything is shared. We equally share the feed costs as well as paying a member to fill them. They are all filled at the same time and set to throw the same amounts at the same times. All batteries and repairs etc are shared. Hardly any of our members probably even knows who actually owns the equipment,


When run the way you describe above it should work great I would think for the most part.
The problem is I've been on a couple leases where I set up a couple nice stands with a couple feeders at each stand while others set up pop-ups, tripods, or a few boards nailed together for a stand and started feeding 100 lbs of corn a month in September where I fed heavily the entire year. Then, guess which stands were always chosen first when the draw for stands happened when multiple lease members were there?!! lmao

Well, guess what happened...…
Two guys picked my two stands so my son went to one of theirs and I went to another.
a 146" 9 point walked out in front of me and I put a 165 grains through his ribs and he made his way to my wall! rifle roflmao
This was a 6400 acre LF ranch about 20 miles south of Sonora 10 years ago!
Posted By: DQ Kid

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/24/20 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by ILUVBIGBUCKS
Originally Posted by freerange
Originally Posted by ILUVBIGBUCKS
Originally Posted by 603Country
Live with it for the season. I left a lease one year due to the self appointed idiot that ‘ran’ it.

^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^


Shoot your allotted deer this year and get the hell off.

Lease rules should be in writing and crystal clear. If they are not, this is what you get!

I do NOT like community stands one bit unless all feed throughout the year is 'community purchased'.
Unless all feed is bought as a group and dispensed you will always have those that spend much more and feed much more than others yet those that don't spend that extra money always gravitate to the other stands of other hunters who've spent the money and fed more because they've typically drawn more and better deer in!



Iluv, I would of assumed that a community stands lease also shares the feed costs within the community. On ours, once the equipment is set up everything is shared. We equally share the feed costs as well as paying a member to fill them. They are all filled at the same time and set to throw the same amounts at the same times. All batteries and repairs etc are shared. Hardly any of our members probably even knows who actually owns the equipment,


When run the way you describe above it should work great I would think for the most part.
The problem is I've been on a couple leases where I set up a couple nice stands with a couple feeders at each stand while others set up pop-ups, tripods, or a few boards nailed together for a stand and started feeding 100 lbs of corn a month in September where I fed heavily the entire year. Then, guess which stands were always chosen first when the draw for stands happened when multiple lease members were there?!! lmao

Well, guess what happened...…
Two guys picked my two stands so my son went to one of theirs and I went to another.
a 146" 9 point walked out in front of me and I put a 165 grains through his ribs and he made his way to my wall! rifle roflmao
This was a 6400 acre LF ranch about 20 miles south of Sonora 10 years ago!

To my earlier point made, the deer will go wherever the desire.
Posted By: DQ Kid

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/24/20 10:47 PM

And you proved that point 10 years ago near Sonora well.
Posted By: Creekrunner

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/24/20 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by ILUVBIGBUCKS
Originally Posted by freerange
Originally Posted by ILUVBIGBUCKS
Originally Posted by 603Country
Live with it for the season. I left a lease one year due to the self appointed idiot that ‘ran’ it.

^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^


Shoot your allotted deer this year and get the hell off.

Lease rules should be in writing and crystal clear. If they are not, this is what you get!

I do NOT like community stands one bit unless all feed throughout the year is 'community purchased'.
Unless all feed is bought as a group and dispensed you will always have those that spend much more and feed much more than others yet those that don't spend that extra money always gravitate to the other stands of other hunters who've spent the money and fed more because they've typically drawn more and better deer in!



Iluv, I would of assumed that a community stands lease also shares the feed costs within the community. On ours, once the equipment is set up everything is shared. We equally share the feed costs as well as paying a member to fill them. They are all filled at the same time and set to throw the same amounts at the same times. All batteries and repairs etc are shared. Hardly any of our members probably even knows who actually owns the equipment,


When run the way you describe above it should work great I would think for the most part.
The problem is I've been on a couple leases where I set up a couple nice stands with a couple feeders at each stand while others set up pop-ups, tripods, or a few boards nailed together for a stand and started feeding 100 lbs of corn a month in September where I fed heavily the entire year. Then, guess which stands were always chosen first when the draw for stands happened when multiple lease members were there?!! lmao

Well, guess what happened...…
Two guys picked my two stands so my son went to one of theirs and I went to another.
a 146" 9 point walked out in front of me and I put a 165 grains through his ribs and he made his way to my wall! rifle roflmao
This was a 6400 acre LF ranch about 20 miles south of Sonora 10 years ago!


I hope you made sure they saw the buck, for as long as possible without letting the meat spoil. 'Can't stand losers like that.

I've been on 2 leases where I had my stand locked. One, a close friend invited me to be on. On both the problem was white trash.
Posted By: tlk

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/24/20 11:51 PM

some of you crack me up - the guys who do not want any lease rules are the ones who have to lock their blinds ???

Is there a correlation here?
Posted By: Creekrunner

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/24/20 11:58 PM

Yeah. Indubitably. That's why I bought my own place. My rules.
Posted By: tlk

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/25/20 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by Creekrunner
Yeah. Indubitably. That's why I bought my own place. My rules.


I hear you - I also owned my own ranch and loved it but I also love hunting with others to share the experience - that is why I decided to get a first class lease and do my best to run it the right way - 13 years later it is an experience I would never give up -
Posted By: ILUVBIGBUCKS

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/25/20 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by tlk
some of you crack me up - the guys who do not want any lease rules are the ones who have to lock their blinds ???

Is there a correlation here?


I am one who wants lease rules and definitely doesn't want to have to lock any blinds unless it is to keep illegals from camping out overnight in them down south or out west!

I just feel the better defined the lease rules are the better they are understood and followed by all.

I think the way freerange does it with his group is the best way when it comes to the feeding program and everyone needs to understand up front that they will be paying their share of that bill each month or quarterly.
It just seems to me when your lease is one that everyone is supposed to take care of their own spot individually it ends up where one or two guys do a great job and the others get by with as little as they can and then 'leach' off the few that go 'all in'!
Posted By: ILUVBIGBUCKS

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/25/20 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by tlk
Originally Posted by Creekrunner
Yeah. Indubitably. That's why I bought my own place. My rules.


I hear you - I also owned my own ranch and loved it but I also love hunting with others to share the experience - that is why I decided to get a first class lease and do my best to run it the right way - 13 years later it is an experience I would never give up -

up up up

Agree brother

Sharing the experiences with a good group of other fellas is what makes it so fun IMO.

Finding a good group when you have 10 or more is the trick!

I've always said if you want to find out who is truly a good guy and who is an azzwipe, just go hunting with them a day or two because the best comes out of the good guys and the worst comes out of the pendejos!

lol
Posted By: titan2232

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/25/20 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by ILUVBIGBUCKS
Originally Posted by tlk
some of you crack me up - the guys who do not want any lease rules are the ones who have to lock their blinds ???

Is there a correlation here?


I am one who wants lease rules and definitely doesn't want to have to lock any blinds unless it is to keep illegals from camping out overnight in them down south or out west!

I just feel the better defined the lease rules are the better they are understood and followed by all.

I think the way freerange does it with his group is the best way when it comes to the feeding program and everyone needs to understand up front that they will be paying their share of that bill each month or quarterly.
It just seems to me when your lease is one that everyone is supposed to take care of their own spot individually it ends up where one or two guys do a great job and the others get by with as little as they can and then 'leach' off the few that go 'all in'!




This is the way I see it more often than not and the reason I keep my blind locked. The other responsible members that pull their own weight knows they have my permission to hunt my spot and exactly where my key is hidden.
Posted By: tlk

Re: Deer Lease Dispute - 11/25/20 11:21 PM

we are in a fairly unusual situation - our ranch owner takes care of ordering all the feed, storing all the feed, and the filling of all feeders (corn, protein, and cottonseed) - they also provide all of the stands and maintain them- they keep the roads in good shape and shred the senderos. We simply pay for the feed.

So we have zero reason not to have community stands - first come first serve - this way each of our hunters can hunt anywhere on 9000 acres that they want to. Each stand and area is as well fed and maintained as any other stand or area -
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