Trophy /Score

Was wondering what constitutes a trophy to you. Is it score base only.

One of the guys on my lease is under the conception that if the deer is not better score wise than what you have on the wall it should get a pass.

I like the character of deers rack more than just a score, I've never killed a super wide deer my friend has a wide 8 coming in , it wont score that much but its a mature deer and I would consider it a trophy.

just scattershooting .

I agree trophy is what you are personally after. Some guys have killed a ton of big deer and can hold out. Other guys have never killed a good one so every legal deer looks like a trophy. My first buck ever at 13 years old was a 4 point with no brow tines. I was so proud of that thing I showed it to everyone who would look for a year.

"One of the guys on my lease is under the conception that if the deer is not better score wise than what you have on the wall it should get a pass."

Fine, let him pay my lease fee if I do not shoot a buck. See how long his conceptions last.

Please forward this to him. Deer don’t live forever nor grow bigger every year. In fact his opinion is science fiction at its greatest and is contrary to his goal of bigger, healthier deer.

Second that alsoWould create a bunch of 120” dominate 8 pts that run bigger bucks off, there for never actually allowing you seeing higher scoring deer.

Score has nothing todo with dominance

thats where i'm leaning also. The wide 8 should of been shot last year at 4 years old. But all our armchair biologist dictate not

The older and warier a deer is the more value I put in it as a trophy. An old tattletale doe taken with my bow is one of my favorite trophies. It took 52 minutes for her to get with in 22yrds . The old gnarled up buck i posted pictures of before was an awesome old bow buck and it took 6 hunts in 4 days to get him in to 17 yrds. Neither score on antlers but attitude and age rank them up there higher than any long shot I've taken on antlers.

Trophy means different things to different people. Nothing wrong with a guy setting the goal of wanting to kill a bigger buck than he has before. A lot of guys will have that in the back of their mind but also will be looking for a buck that may have a characteristic they like(like your wide 8) and take that if if presents itself. Of course alot and maybe most hunters want a big buck but the overall experience of the hunt is the real Trophy. For me I ALWAYS enjoy the overall experience so I EXPECT that and dont consider that a goal. If some one measures success by a set of large antlers then a buck scoring high on the BC scoring system will almost always look impressive on the wall.
Personally I like bucks that just look big and impressive and normally high BC scoring does that but at the same time there are certain shapes and characteristics that i really prefer. I guess I want it all, kind of like wanting a girl thats smart, good personality AND good looking(throw in rich or whatever else you want. )

This is pretty much me. I like the experience, back story, history of deer but also really enjoy the surprise of a mature deer not seen on camera, make the on the hoof judgment call (usually that is quick for me as my heart pounds upon sight, if not and I have to start thinking about it, questioning my field judging of said buck then I just let him pass. I've taken some nice bucks over the years and some that would be consider real trophies score wise for areas they were taken but I've never had any actually scored correctly. To each his own but score is really not in my trophy definition but is just one of several criteria used in my self trophy expectations and as long as within any property/lease guidelines/rules.

As BOBO said there are lots and lots of mature 8 points out there that may not get bigger and may not reach a score trophy measurement but IMO if trying to manage buck population these mature 8's need to be harvested. My experience on large ranches when we harvested unwanted mature less than 10s antlered we over time began to see better results along with supplemental feed and record keeping but this takes time and larger acreage for measurable impact

Only animals that typically hit peak at 4 and start to degrees in Lower 48 are pronghorn. I like seeing mature animals, once you start seeing big bruisers in that 6.5 age class either whitetail or Mulie most minds tend to change some. It’s a leap of faith technically, but can be a very positive outcome. I personally hunt age class more then horns, and don’t and won’t ever judge any one with a different opinion.

With all this said still got to have fun or no deer is worth it.

On a lease with strict harvest requirements, get a camera with 50x zoom and go have fun. It will take the edge off letting the BIG pups go. Sometimes a good picture is just as good as horns in your hands, especially if you have a few years of pictures of him.

Just a suggestion that helped me grow and be more tolerant of rules I didn’t see value you in.

When I was growing up, the idea of "scoring" a deer, to the average Joe, was a foreign concept. A few years ago I watched as our lease "manager" almost ran out the cabin door with his tape measure and his little ring of plastic deer jaws for aging when someone pulled up with a buck.

There were some very good things about "the good ol' days."

Mature with character is all I need to be happy with the kill........

My trophy is the story and the experience. Sometimes it even has antlers attached.

This ↑↑↑↑↑....I'm looking for something north of 4.5yrs and hopefully some character. I realize that if I want to do better than what I already have on the wall, I may need to adjust where I'm hunting and what my budget is

ok i have a question if you are heavy with high teens -120 class eights whats your age cutoff ? The wide 8 hasn't gained very much since last year. we are hunting around 3400 acres between two lease groups feeding protein. I guess what i'm asking do you want to keep feeding that many to full maturity or focus on tens or better or can you really make that much influence on low fence deer herd.

Please forward this to him. Deer don’t live forever nor grow bigger every year. In fact his opinion is science fiction at its greatest and is contrary to his goal of bigger, healthier deer.

Second that alsoWould create a bunch of 120” dominate 8 pts that run bigger bucks off, there for never actually allowing you seeing higher scoring deer.

Score has nothing todo with dominance
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thats where i'm leaning also. The wide 8 should of been shot last year at 4 years old. But all our armchair biologist dictate not [/quote]

Only animals that typically hit peak at 4 and start to degrees in Lower 48 are pronghorn. I like seeing mature animals, once you start seeing big bruisers in that 6.5 age class either whitetail or Mulie most minds tend to change some. It’s a leap of faith technically, but can be a very positive outcome. I personally hunt age class more then horns, and don’t and won’t ever judge any one with a different opinion.

With all this said still got to have fun or no deer is worth it.

On a lease with strict harvest requirements, get a camera with 50x zoom and go have fun. It will take the edge off letting the BIG pups go. Sometimes a good picture is just as good as horns in your hands, especially if you have a few years of pictures of him.

Just a suggestion that helped me grow and be more tolerant of rules I didn’t see value you in.

[/quote]
ok i have a question if you are heavy with high teens -120 class eights whats your age cutoff ? The wide 8 hasn't gained very much since last year. we are hunting around 3400 acres between two lease groups feeding protein. I guess what i'm asking do you want to keep feeding that many to full maturity or focus on tens or better or can you really make that much influence on low fence deer herd.

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Nocool, your questio has been addressed in many threads in the past because it is so complex and depends on so many factors, as well as being very controversial. One of the best threads ive seen on this forum was about that and it was only a month or 6 weeks ago. I think it was titled MANAGEMENT BUCKS in all caps. Very worthwhile read on what and why to kill any non trophy bucks.

All I'm gonna say is beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Thank You ! I'll give it a read.

I see many hunters get wound up in getting approval or trying to please some one else with what they shoot when they hunt. I never let someone try to dictate what I should shoot or pass on(as long as it meets the criteria where I am hunting). In the end you are the one paying for your lease spot and should shoot what you like(with in the lease guidelines). I probably shoot and have deer mounted that many on here would not even consider. But it is my decision and not anyone else. If they are paying my way then I may have to listen and take into consideration their input. Like Hudbone posted above "The beauty is in the eye of beholder". That is what makes hunting so great for me. No two deer look alike either.

I stated in one of my posts that I hunt in the Big Sandy unit of the Big Thicket national park,it's 9800 acres for free,archery,muzzleloader or shotguns only.As we have had the 13 inch antler restrictions in place for several years now I'm seeing better deer antler wise,although i don't totally agree with it as i have seen older deer that were not legal because of the width.our deer just don't get as wide in these heavy woods.over the years i have taken and saw some good deer,I guess i said all that to say this,when you start to pattern a particular deer and stay with him and finally get actually get a look and maybe even get a shot well he don't have to be the monster in the magazine.we can't feed or have a permanent blind and 75 yards is a long shot in my favorite white oak baygall.

Back way up first.
Before you start managing you need to define your goals.
Then survey your herd,
Then determine what you can financially support and do.
Then manage via your survey in relation to your “achievable” goals.

I say this because alot of lease bosses think you just let deer get old and feed protein and boom huge deer.

Doesn’t work that way. You can only manage what you are capable of managing, which is also why some rules are why they are, best they can do for all parties involved. Why 99% of leases are one trophy, one cull... best they can do to make all happy

Back to Your question -Your buck herd could be 70 percent 3.5+ 8pts that don’t break 125. If you only are going to a lot 1 tag per hunter to cull an 8pt buck how many did you just leave? How many of your hunters are willing to give up two-three years of trophy tags to get a grip on management type deer to get them back in check? Or even does if you are doe heavy.

Point is its not that simple, my reply to you on what I would do is lease ability dependent. If I was lease boss, first I would do survey, then start MLD process, then get doe ratio in check, then heavy culling of bottom of the 4.5 + age classes, then Down to 3.5 and then down to 2.5. Once I felt I had the upper half of want I want to feed then id start hunting a trophy or two, but that most likey that won’t be until 3-4 years into my management plan, all while still culling... now how many leases hunters would wait that long? Not many, so error on side of caution weak framed 8 pts 4.5

Hope this helps, don’t over think it, have fun, take a camera, control what you can control

Feed labels/bags and management plans do not have any way to add genetics into the existing deer herd. What you do with those genetics can determine how the herd is shaped in the future.

I agree with Stx on "shoot what you want within the guidelines". We definitely have guidelines but the only guideline limiting whats considered a Trophy is AGE. I always tell the guys that as long as he is old enough and you are happy then I, and everyone else, will be happy.

thanks for the info, we have a long ways to go on our lease. we tried the tpwd spotlight survey with dismal results. Doing camera survey now and guy from other group is compiling data. Feel like we are just shooting from the hip on some of the stuff . But got two of my best buds on the lease and a few decent deer roaming so i'm going with the flow and not over think it.

Same here, although I'm pretty sure you're a LOT older than me.

I never once heard of scoring a deer until I was 17 or 18. Growing up we judged bucks by points and by width. If you were happy with that buck and thought he was a good one, then that was your trophy. I never once heard anyone at camp bickering about age & score, or should have gave him one more year, there was no drama. I totally understand the logic behind setting goals and growing trophy deer, and I've been involved in some good management plans on several large ranches....but like you said, there were some very good things about the good old days before trophy hunting took over. I like big bucks and I cannot lie, but I don't like a lot of the fussing and bad mouthing I've seen around age & score lol.

On the right track, survey first,

pretty much the whole story right here.

There is a middle ground to be found in between the " every deer is a trophy so load up the meatpole with yearling forkhorns" and the "a deer isn't a trophy unless he is 8+ years old and has 50 inches of mass, 100 inches of main beam, 3 ticks on his left nut, etc. "


I"ve found happiness on the hunting ground typically is found here. Hunt for mature animals but don't let score or ultimate age deter you from having a good time.


Personally, I'm fine with mostly killing small racked whitetails. I'm not fine with killing young small racked whitetails.

Bingo!

To me a trophy is whatever gets your heart pumping and and makes you excited when it comes out as well as the overall experience of the hunt and the story that goes with it. When I look at a set of horns I see more than the antlers but, I see the whole story of the deer and hunt. For me once you no longer get excited in the deer stand when a solid mature deer comes out, it’s time for a new hobby.

I believe there are only two sizes of deer, big enough and not big enough. The sum of inches of antler on his head means little to me. Where I am, who I'm with and the circumstances make the trophy. I have two sets of antlers over 40 years old that most people would never look twice at but I took them with my dad by my side and will never part with them. The number is the trophy to some but to me the hunt is the trophy.

^^^This is another one well stated that hits close to home for me. Except the last part--"once you no longer get excited about a solid mature deer" you can pick up a camera and that will be a whole new experience to live off for awhile. You could say thats no longer hunting but while "hunting" with a camera I still am in position to take that real exceptional buck if he were to walk out. I go many many years without killing a buck but i take lots of pics of big bucks.

& sometimes they don't...
Any deer taken legally tis a trophy...

& as T-i-double-g-erV posted,
The True Trophy tis the memories one brings home...
So take a family member, friend, loved one, ta share the memories
If ya huntsolo the memories die with ya...
Just my

to me any buck that is mature I consider a great deer whether he scores 115" or 215".

I've seen many bucks that score 140 that look better than ones that score 170!
I like big framed deer so I'd rather kill a 160" 8 point than a multi-pointed 190" deer.

And, I also completely agree with you about character as well.

As far as the guy on your lease that thinks that way, I don't that at all. Hell, if I have a 170" on the wall and a 150" 7 year old comes out I damn sure am not passing that deer...….he is going on the wall next to my others! lol

Yes sir.

Generally speaking, many hunters and hunting publications consider a B&C scoring whitetail of 140"+ as being the "floor" of trophies, especially if taken with rifle. I believe Pope and Young is more in the 125-130" range. That said, I've seen many nice 130"+ bucks that I consider trophies due to extreme maturity or uniqueness of animal. The carrying capacity and genetics of where you are hunting also play an immense role into what "you" will determine as a trophy.

Here are the guidelines the OP and I are operating under. Feedback is welcome.

Geographic location is the transition zone in NW Hill County to South Rolling Plains. Deer population not yet determined by survey, but on a typical morning or afternoon sit I'll see 5 - 10 does and 4 - 8 bucks. Ratio seems good and age class on bucks is fair and steadily improving.

We get 1 trophy, 1 cull and 2 does. Or you can take 2 culls and skip the trophy if you want to.

Trophy is defined as 5.5 or older with a uniform rack (excluding drops and kickers) of at least 8 points.

Cull is defined as a 2.5 or older spike, 3.5 or older with missing G1's (we've got a problem with that type genetics), 3.5 or older with lopsided racks like a 5x3, or 3.5 or older with disproportionately small racks.

If there's any doubt about a buck, we encourage people to post pics to our online group, but it's not a requirement to get approval beforehand to shoot any deer. The online discussion is just there to help people if they have any doubts or questions. And we do have a couple of newer hunters who are openly asking for help with aging deer on the hoof. This year we're keeping an album of the pics we get of bucks that fall into the Trophy, Cull or Too Young groups to hopefully make it easier for everyone to make good choices.

And like the OP stated, we're definitely seeing big improvements in both quality and quantity. I had a morning sit last year during the peak chasing phase and I counted 18 different bucks that I saw that morning, including a couple of really nice ones. That's quite an improvement over my first season 5 years ago when I was lucky to see more than 1 or 2 bucks per sit and those were usually small.

In Texas there are still many places where a 150+ gross score deer is still rare. There are still places where a 130+ deer is rare. There are parts of some south Texas counties that cannot achieve that mark. TBGA program has several regions where a 125 net typical is the minimum to enter in the awards program. If you look at the number of deer entered for those region it is still low. I consider a deer a "trophy" for that area or county area I am hunting. If the county can't produce a 160+ buck and a 120 buck is top end then that is my expectation on a "trophy" hunt or lease. Since start of private management and WMA's across across the state quality has improved immensely. Add in AR in many areas and seeing that once in a lifetime buck in those areas is now a more of a reality than it has been in the last 30 yrs.

Yep, adjust your expectations to your situation(area), and yep, the good old days are now.

This years planned trophy. My 8 year old granddaughter said this is the deer she wants because she doesn't think she can eat one of the big ones in a year. I'll be sitting with her opening day of bow season and she will use a crossbow. Oh yeah she wants to save his tail.

^^^^^^^Well Said^^^^^^^^

Hope your granddaughter smokes that ol cowhorn

Well said , you're a lot more articulate in your words than myself. I think we are heading in a good direction just know on our side we are pretty heavy with 8's . That's why i started the post about not shooting a trophy if its not an upgrade seems counter productive to our goals. Anyway can't wait to get down there ! pray for rain.