How bad is East Texas poaching, really ?

I’m close to owning my own place near Linden and you guys have me worried.

Poaching and wandering hog hunters on the roads.

One of the biggest poaching places use to be south of Palestine near Long Lake.

Dad and his side of the family been out North of town since the 70’s never been a big issue. Does it happen, certainly, but not a big issue. More “I heard so and so” rumors than anything.

It's no worse than any other region in Texas that
I've hunted at. Pretty evenly spread around.
Any place you go there's trespassing if you're
not living on site to keep an eye on it.
You can have 50 acres and the neighbor can
have 1050, and they'll still come over onto yours
as soon as they see you lock up and leave.

Grass is greener and all that

Depends on your neighbors. Really now rose than anywhere. Lot better than Oklahoma.

I think the biggest reason is because it's heavily wooded, properties tend to be smaller, towns are closer together so more people. Poachers sneak through the woods without being seen much easier than more open places. When my Son was about 8-9 we had a lease in Cass county. We decided to hunt mid week. Still hunting through a pin oak flat I saw a deer ahead. Threw up the scope and it was a local wearing a buckskin, Daniel Boone type jacket. We backed out of there. No cell phone back then. First and last year on that lease.

There is a lot of Poaching in parts of East Texas the best way to find out about your area is to contact the local Game Warden in the area of the property.

Good Luck

Bad enough that even the Game Wardens do it, like Chris Fried. https://www.statesman.com/news/2016...n-admits-breaking-law-but-holds-onto-job

It’s no coincidence that the greenest part of the state has the lowest deer densities.

Land ownership will give a plenty of things to think about, poaching will be far down on that mental list.

Come on. I work out of Linden and don't hear horror stories of the past. Couple good wardens here.

Never has a problem on the place I hunt in Marion County.

It is no better or worse than any other parts of the state. Its just alot easier to stay concealed in the timber stands. Keep a good perimeter around your place.

Im not too far from you, give me a shout if you need anything!

Cover, population density, and meth.....may not be any worse or better than any other region but per-capita population numbers suggest more poachers per acre than out west....

Poaching is always worse where they are caught. Many areas they are not caught so no one knows just how bad it really is in their area. I can name pockets in south and central Texas that have or had very bad poaching problems. Just never reported or even known about since the poachers keep it quiet. Back in the 60's and 70's it was really bad in pockets in just about every county in South Texas.

Poaching is a fact of life in east Texas, it happens. We have found headless carcasses. But I don't really know how much it is actually done. Don't like it, but it's going to happen. What I HATE is the thieves/poachers that come thru, breaking into campsites, finding cameras or whatever and stealing them. We actually had an elevated stand stolen, came in one nite with trucks and lowered it onto trailer and drove off with it--during season!

Great example of law enforcement officers being above the law and why they get a bad name. There is ZERO reason this officer is still employed by the state. It’s an embarrassment to the badge, the oath and everything a game warden should stand for.

It’s a shame because there are more good ones than trash like this one.

Great podcast: Episode #257: Charles Beaty "Prince of Poachers"

https://bighonker.libsyn.com/episode-257-charles-beaty-prince-of-poachers

Erath stated some good reasons on why its worse if it is worse.

It’s as bad as you hear. I quit deer hunting when I lived in east tx. I never liked anything but the duck and squirrel hunting. To be honest the only thing I really enjoyed about east tx was the fishing and that was hard to beat. I never did get used to all of the pine trees. Being a west Tx man I always feel boxed in if I can’t see a gas plant From 20 miles away.

It can be bad. Really depends on where your place is, how often you are out there and how well you know your neighbors.
My family has owned property in Blackfoot for 50+ years. Grew up in Palestine, our place is about 15 miles outside of town.

^^^^^^

Hog Doggers are more of a problem in East Texas than poachers (for deer).

That said, we DO have our share of poachers/trespassers. And yes they get away with it frequently because it is wooded and easy to disappear in.

In my area (Deep East Texas) poachers are a bit like Baptists. You know they are out there raising hell, you just can't catch them at it.

Joking aside and no offense to any God Fearing Baptist's.....it's really only a problem in certain pockets, but East Texas didn't get it's reputation for nothing. It's kind of a different world behind the Pine Curtain with respect to game laws and attitudes.

I have to believe this COVID situation and people not being able to work has resulted in more game and fish laws being broken so people can eat more cheaply.

we have 63 acres of family land by jefferson,live in ft worth so don't get out every weekend,have caught people hunting at least 4 times on our place,very frustrating.

It’s not just game laws. I was raised in Harrison County and now I own a place on Lake Livingston. The people there are different. They view property owners as rich folks ripe for the picking. You cannot find an honest handyman or carpenter there. Every lawn service wants to rip you off. They lie constantly and won’t do what they agreed to do. They disappear after they’re paid. They will steal from you too.

I finally found a Handywoman from Houston that I trust. I use her for everything. She and her brother sleep in my bunkhouse. They work like dogs, we treat them like family.

WRONG

I think only HF vs. LF fires this bunch up more than "Is east Texas different?" My family owned land outside of San Augustine since 1899 that I was responsible for for quite a few years until I sold our share of the surface (50%) to a neighbor that just knew he could deal with Mom's insane cousin just fine. Them people'r differn't. I don't care what you say. My wife's boss for many years, an MD, was born and raised in San Augustine. He will tell you, those people are plumb frickin' nuts...and inbred.

My experience with east Tx is that nothing is safe and that meth rules.

I had a lease in Dayton, TX which I left after one year. I got tired of seeing spent shell casings to calibers that I don't own in my stand. We also got tired of finding locals wandering around telling us that the owner told them that it would be ok if they shot a hog or two.

I had the next lease outside of Splendora. A fair amount of hogs and very few deer. The lease folded the weekend before the season as the managers neglected to pay the timber company who owned the land for the lease that year. We had 1 day to remove our stuff. Every game camera was gone already by the time we got out there.

I stopped hunting deer and hogs in TX for a decade or so after that. I bought some land in central TX last year. So far, no issues. I don't really like going east of 59/69 at this point

How ?

Yep!

Im almost positive i can answer for tlk. He doesnt think the poaching is the same in other regions of the State as it is in ETx. I think its worse in ETx too but I dont want to get into the debate too much. If Im wrong im sure tlk will correct me.
I will add that i have hunted in almost every area of the State and never had a poacher that I am totally aware of and never had anything stolen.

Bad folks everywhere,just depends on where you cross paths with them.Had all the copper wire stole out of the camps outside of Nacogdoches, they stole tv and a/c out of the camp in Brady maybe they were just trying to get money to feed their kids(NOT) but I wish that were the reason.But 99% of the folks I've met in this great state have been good folks just trying to make living and raise their kids better than they had it when they were growing up.

He is a disgrace and does not deserve to wear a badge.

I should have added, we have had some bad dudes/methheads near us for years. Neighbors will be the most important. Are they good? Will they watch your land? Who knows. Drive around and check all around for trash and mischief. That's not confined to east Texas BTW. Beautiful in those piney woods and hardwood bottoms. My Dad grew up in Mount Vernon. He used to ramble far and wide hunting, trapping, fishing.

I've hunted Duvall, red river, brown, lamar, McCulloch,
cass, mason, young, sutton, sabine, Morris,
freestone, Cooke, coke, anderson, fannin, houston,
van zandt, and trinity counties in my short life.

Any of those that didn't have somebody living
on the property full time usually had trespassing.
It wasn't always obvious, sometimes things
might just not be "right ", or nothing might have
been stolen, but if you're not right there with
it, you can pretty much rest assured that some
one roams around and eyeballs the goods.

I've found tracks that didn't belong. ATV'S,
truck tires of an odd pattern, toilet paper,
socks used as toilet paper, beer cans,
cold drink cans, water bottles, butts, roaches,
snuff wads, a cushion left behind in a hurry,
odd shotgun hulls, spent rifle brass, clay
pigeon fragments, a decent water trough
that got made into a useless one, various
parts of one of my missing game cameras,
a pocketknife, GI surplus ammo box, etc. etc.

It's a shame you can't leave a place or leave
something lay without somebody coming
along and putting their filthy paws on it.
I've always been of the opinion that you
know exactly and precisely what belongs
to you and what doesn't, and you don't diddle
with something that isn't yours.

Unfortunately, it just ain't that way

The ones I've been at close to the rio, you had to keep
a sharp eye for border jumpers and make sure the
blind didn't have somebody asleep in it.
And you want to make sure la migra knows you're
there and who you are and what you look like.

You'll have to spend tens of thousands to try to
get away from the BS
You're not going to drive in a day's time and
leave it behind
Not in 2020

I've never hunted East Tx, but I can tell you there are plenty of poachers in South Tx. It always sounds like there are more meth heads in East Tx, though.

Thieves are a bigger problem. I’ve never been on a lease in East Texas where I don’t have a ladder stand or feeder stolen. I’ve also had one box blind shot up and another burned down. Small bordering properties, easy access from the neighbors and a lot of unfenced timber land. Swore off of it five years ago. I now lease in Arkansas and haven’t had any issues. Three hours from the house, less pressure, and lower cost per acre.

I grew up in South Texas and hunted in Willacy, Brooks, and Refugio county. It pains me to leave the state to hunt but from this area, it’s at least 3-4 hours to get to the deer density and the prices are considerably higher.

I will second what was said about neighbors. Good ones give piece of mind.

that untold story.

Like Cast I was raised in Harrison County and had a place west of Marshall. I had people crossing over and cutting fences to hunt my place and the place behind me. Had one bunch that said Pipelines and High Line right of ways were public property. When we had nightclub less than 4 miles from my house and I got broken into enough times that when I walked into the glass store they knew what size window panes I needed for my front door. We moved may years ago and I have heard it is better there now. Good luck on your land, put up cameras watching cameras.

That is an ironic statement coming from someone in Johnson County!

Here is how i look at it. The problem isnt necessarily a regional problem, it is an absentee landowner issue. If someone knows that the owner doesn't live in the area, and there are no tenants on the property, the risk of getting caught is low. East Texas happens to have alot of properties fitting this criteria, but other parts of the state are not immune.

I do not live in East Tx nor do I know much about it. But this wonders me. I live and have lived in this part of the state for my entire 73 years. I have driven through most parts of East Tx. many times. There is a lot more for WT to eat there than where I am. So, why aren't there more deer?

I have been on this forum and several others for a number of years - I had seen way more poaching/trespassing/theft threads from ETex folks than anywhere else.

I have never hunted ETex so I admit I am not familiar with it - of course other areas of the state have some of the same issues but overall the ETex poaching threads far outnumber anywhere else in our state - just sayin

I would like to know where you get your information on deer density. It got up too high (per TP&W) several years ago and had a crash during a drought and mast crop failure but has recovered to a safe level per TP&W. Granted we are not as high as around Fredericksburg or Mason but it is nothing to see 10 to 20 on our morning one mile walk around our neighborhood. There are large tracks of timbered land all around us that get hunted, have seen several nice 10 points taken by neighbors. The most we have counted in the hayfield behind our house is 35. There are at least 10 feeders in our neighborhood and they all look like this almost every night right after dark.

Shhhhh... let them think we dont have any deer. Yall keep going west to hunt, we dont have many deer, and the only deer we do have get poached!!!

This exactly - absentee landowners - coupled with the simple fact that east texas in most areas is much more densely populated than say Barnhart, TX.

Poverty + drugs + high ratio of locals/absentee owners = poacher and theft problems.

Another factor to add to the matrix if we want to dive deeper! We have alot more smaller acreage tracts out here. You dont see that many big, sprawling ranches out here. Most tracts i deal with in my area are less than 50 acres.

There are many, many more property owners in east texas, a large number of those are absentee. So there is alot of land out here that doesnt have any oversight. Many land owners i deal with have never even laid eyes on there own property.

Johnson county has nowhere near the problems Anderson county has. Crooked game wardens, run amok meth heads. My three years hunting north of Palestine really opened my eyes! At least here in Johnson county if they throw you in jail you have to make bail to get out.

Most of my hunting has been west of the metroplex so I can't speak to the issues in ETX....but I've only hunted 1 property that went without incident. Trespassing, road hunting, theft, vandalism...we've seen it all. Believe me, WTX has it's issues as well. The 1 property we hunted without incident was 750 acres where the LO resided. One of the worst places for trespassing & road hunting was owned by the county sheriff. It was always fun when we would confront trespassers and we told them who owned the property...the look on their faces....their prospects were not good as we would not let them go without ID.

Picked up a new pasture this year in Parker county....LO just had a motorcycle stolen from a barn. They cut the fence and took it. Yup....I think you're going to get that kind of crap anywhere.

Depends on your meth lab per acre density.

Absentee owner property is ripe for poaching and property theft simply because of the terrain compared to the rest of Texas......

Toooo much theft and poaching in ET, and there aren't any bucks or doe's. Best to hunt west of Dallas.

Well, east TX is closest to LA.

Like said before. E. Texas is probably a little worse than W. TX only because it has a more people and more cover.

I know people that hunted in E TX on a lease with me that did not follow the laws there and they did the same thing in W TX.

Its unfortunate but some people are just that way, the worse ones in my opinion are the ones that have money but do it anyways.

The only people I have sympathy for are the ones that do it just to feed their family, they get a pass if they are not abusing it.

You guys make me want to back out . I’ll worry every night that someone is trespassing or poaching 😩

As someone who grew up here, has had family land here since my father was a kid, I can tell you its not as bad as some are making it to be.

If you found what you want, don't back out.

The incidence of poaching & trespassing in E Tx is due to E Tx relatively speaking being more densely populated than other rural parts of the state.
No matter where you go, more people = more unusual activities, more problems, more crime of all variety.

There are pockets of small to large areas in almost every county in the state that have trespassing & poaching issues.

Absentee owners of rural property anywhere in the state stand a higher chance of having something going on that they may or may not know about in their absence.

On the flip side, if you end up with good neighbors & get to known them, there is no better asset for absentee rural property owners than good neighbors.
No matter where or how many acres you buy, you're going to have neighbors.
Good ones are worth their weight in gold.

There are few areas in E Tx that I wouldn't buy property in, same goes for at least several dozen other counties all over the state.

Make good friends with the local GW. Ask if he could check your pace once in a while. Thanksgiving turkey, gift always helps!
Buy it, I will watch it for you!

I guess I ought to chime in here since I own a small property in east Texas and use it as a hunting, weekend property. I do take some tentative precautions like
having heavy locks on the barn/shop and gate into the property as well as a lock on my main large blind and a locked chain across the bridge in the middle of our
property that allows one to cross the creek to the back part. I built a privacy fence all around the house part and have security lights and beware of dog signs on the fence. Before the fence was put in, my front feeder could potentially be seen from the road but now it can't. Wife and I put up plenty of No Hunting, No trespassing signs and purple paint on trees facing the National Forest. Put keyless locks on the homes doors and arrange things on my pier in a certain way where I can tell if anyone has been on there fishing without permission. I had a barbed wire fence built on the west side to separate a smaller property that was once part of my property. I also have 8 game cameras going with a couple not at feeders but in areas animals or poachers might pass through.

I've at least met the few people who live in the area and during general conversations let my thoughts about poaching and trespassing be known and how I won't tolerate it.. I always have my .45 on my hip just to let people know I am serious. I think diligence is an important factor in at least providing some margin of safety but nothing is 100%. There is a guy that drives by twice a day to feed his cattle as he leases some Forest land past me and owns some also and he seems the type guy who notices everything so I made friends with him. In the little town about 6.5 miles away, one does see some rough looking characters once in a while so I guess there are some of the so called meth heads in the general area.

Having said all that my family and I love the place and think that as long as you buy in the right area of east Texas you should be fine. I have heard that the poaching is worse, the closer you get to LA. but couldn't say for a fact.

Also, make contact with the Texas Forest Service office that covers your area. Have the a technician or a forester come out and evaluate the health of your tract. Its not just all about logging, forest health is a big part of what they do.

Make friends with that technician from the local office. They may be able to stop in and take a look at it every now and then if the conditions are right! Most of them are not peace officers, but they can report anything out of the ordinary.

I have a house in Rayburn Country, lots of Rayburn Country is remote. I see East Texas Rednecks with Camo driving around road hunting Rayburn Country every Deer season looking to shoot the deer we feed in our back yards.

But its not east texas, its all over Texas. When I lived in Kingsville in the late 70's the Game Wardens would get caught outlaw hunting.

As tough as the Texas game laws are not it would take an idiot to poach a deer and they get caught. Lose there license, truck, gun you name it.

Was on a lease in East Texas. Didn’t have poachers but a lot of thieves. Had 3 game cameras stolen.

I have hog doggers on game cam at my east Texas place.

I was on a lease in Trinity county near Apple Springs for about 6 yrs. Only issue I ever had was mine and my BIL's cameras were stolen. Had several pics of unknown people at my feeders but I think they were fellow lease members just driving around during the off season. In laws have about 40 acres in Nogalus Prarie, also near Apple Springs, that have had some trespassers, likely some poachers, and some things stolen. I'm pretty sure it was the neighbors in the deer camp next door doing the "poaching," due to the trail under the "fence" and just inside the tree line looking towards one of their feeders. Even had a little spot cleared out to fit a couple of chairs. Actually found a chair a couple yrs ago just inside the same tree line but closer to the feeder. Had two really nice bucks there last yr before season, neither been seen since. But I still enjoy going to the place. Love the piney woods

Someone will definitely be trespassing at some point, no matter where you own.

Constant problem for me.

Guys, I'm considering retiring on one of our east Texas lakes one of these years (waterfront).

Any advice or lakes/ares to avoid? This east Texas poaching/trespassing/drug discussion has raised some red flags in my mind.

Caddo
Lake o the pines
Richland chambers
Sam rayburn
Livingston
Bob Sandlin
Cedar creek

Plan is to do a lot of fishing and hosting friends and family.
Thanks for your insight.

There are lots of nice places down on Caddo Lake now and as for Lake "O" the Pines the north shore area has really been cleaned up. Pines has good Bass, Catfish and awesome Crappie fishing. I can't address the other lake areas.

I don't know about Livingston - never been there- but all the others have their nicer areas. Cedar Creek was rough in places - and still is in a few - but for the most part Dallas money has invaded and things are getting expensive real quick.

Every lake in the state is going to have rough areas that are close to the lake but NOT waterfront. Just a part of lake living anywhere.

Every lake you listed has great fishing for multiple species.

Sandlin has been great for my parents so far. Bought the property 3-4 years ago and spend weekends out there fixing the place up. Nothing has gone missing and no other funny business as far as i know. Likely to be a good investment if you get in soon, area is booming big time right now.

The family farm about 15 minutes from the north side of pines has been a little sketchy at times but nothing too crazy. Someone attempted to break in back in the 90s and i got robbed/scammed by a guy who "needed gas money because his wife was broken down" when i was about 17 years old locking up the gate to head out.

Lake areas are not much different than rural property, there are good & bad areas in every county and near and around every lake.
If you live there full time you'll have substantially less chance of theft, trespassing, drug problems / undesirable activities.

Spending time driving the neighborhoods in your target areas is a good way to rule out areas.
You look for the same things / red flags you'd look for in any property purchase.
Be dang near impossible to go over every neighborhood / subdivision of the lakes you mentioned.

Seems lots of folks don't take into account access to quality medical facilities / health care / emergency services and distance to necessities. gas, grocery, hardware etc...

My opinion
Palestine.
Lake Athens.
Bob Sandlin - Cyprus Springs.
Cedar Creek.
Lake Fork.
Lake o Pines. Only lake Ive ever had any trouble around. Met my cousin there to fish, came back end of the day everything removable taken from my pickup.
Tires& wheels every piece of chrome & badging, tailgate, grill, air cleaner, battery, alternator, ps pump, brake master cyl & booster, front brake calipers, sitting on 6x4 wood blocks not a scratch or foot print around it, Sitting in a busy boat launch parking lot weekday.
Lake Hawkins.
Lake Holbrook.
Richland Chambers
Around Bonham, especially if you're a Vet arguably the best VA facility - Bonham city lake/Lake Bonham / the new Bois D' Ark lake, also not far from Coffee mill, lake Crocket.
And the dozens of Private lakes in E Tx.

Not East TX but,
Amon Carter
Moss Lake
Lake Bridgeport, main body, not river end.
Lake Limestone.

have a friend that has a nice place on Richland Chambers, tucked away in a nice gated subdivision on the southwest side. It looks to be an older subdivision and pretty much retirees or weekend get aways. Seems like a nice neighborhood, reasonably priced compared to other lakes around central Texas (Highland Lakes chain). I am sure there are pockets where there are unfavorable people pretty much anywhere you go.

example is Lake LBJ, constant level and pretty much anything that touches the water starts around half a million (bare lot) on up to double digit millions ... but less than a 1/4 mile from the water is riddled with drug issues, low life, very unfavorable sorts, again, in pockets all around in all the subdivisions.

Guys, thanks for taking the time to respond and for your insight and recommendations. Very cool.

Rabbit, Caddo and Lake-O-the Pines I have a feeling will remind me of my time living/fishing in Mississippi. Love the pines. Cold water crappie fishing is my fav, no doubt.
Noname, great to hear about you and your parent's experience on Sandlin. Agree on the investment angle, too. I've been scammed in that way, too. He needed it more than you did.
Rustler, great post man. Yes, the plan is to live there full time/year round and get in tight with any/all neighbors. Of course, hoping for a bigger lot (1 acre +) for some privacy, and not all east TX lakes are set up for bigger lots (assuming). Your recommended game plan is mine, too. Once we get my youngest son through HS and all his sports, it will be time to hit the road and visit every lake that is an option and start getting to know the areas (listing pros/cons). Healthcare is huge, but I think within 2 hours of a major city we'll be fine. Thanks for listing all the lakes, too. Crazy about the stripped truck on Lake O the Pines. That is nuts it happened in broad daylight and they pulled so much off the friggin truck. That fires me up.
PMK, thanks man. Richland Chambers is supposed to have crazy good fishing. Definitely on the list.

I think the waterfront neighbors keep an eagle eye on things. Looking forward to being part of such a community. Thanks!

I would go Sandlin over Pines. You can build docks and true waterfront there.

A friend and his wife just moved away from there after
fighting the drug heads and their families for about eight
years. The HOA would get the trash kicked out or
arrested, then their families would get them back out
and have them back in the house before you could turn
around. I imagine the proximity of the prisons had
something to do with it.
Otherwise it's a beautiful area and there's deer out the
wazzoo and all the fish and game you could dream of

Being raised a Baptist I can say this post deserves more credit.

Personally I think it is worse in East Texas the further South you go...SE is worse than NE when it comes to trespassers and poachers, IMO. I haven't had any problems on my places in Smith or Wood counties, but I have great neighbors and we keep on eye out for each other.

It is probably bad everywhere. Around here it is not actually coming into your property to hunt but hunting from the roads. Not quite as easy now that there are getting to be more and more HF.