Prorated Lease

The other topic got me to thinking about the prorated return of the lease funds. Reality for most is we are paying for a deer lease, the other hunting and access year around is more or less an accommodation. Can the days of deer season be weighted heavier than the remainder? Or is it a straight division of payment by 365 days.

Might be a good thing to have addressed in your lease.

I'd think any landower is going to tell you take a hike on that idea. There's a pretty good line of folks standing behind you ready and willing to simply pay for year-round access.

Imagine if you were charged "x" for access, "x" for each hog you shot, "x" for each coyote, "x" if you fished, "x" for a buck, "x" for a cull, "x" for a doe and so on. Sure wouldn't be much fun in managing that would it?

I'd also say prorating for anything longer than say 3 months is probably not going to be productive either.

I'm not a landowner, but I can see where it's no one's interest to make it a pain to manage.

If all you want to pay for is deer, then look for a seasonal lease, but I sure wouldn't want that...

Charlie

Any sensible landowner is gonna tell you to hit the road and not to come back with this idea. Just like Charlie said, there's a huge line of people that will pay for year-round access with no bs.

although I agree with CharlieCTx and RPG1997 ... it would depend on how the lease was described in the first place and/or lease agreement for animals to be hunted. If it was billed as a deer lease with year around access versus being billed as a deer, turkey, dove, quail, exotic, hogs, etc. lease with year around hunting access, that could play out differently on potential prorated feeds ... just a thought

Most landowners are not like landlords of housing units. Landlords expect some crap will get damaged and that the renters will move in after a limited time period. The landowners I know have had the same groups of deer hunters for years, some for decades, with only a few groups of hunters that were the exception. There are also some landowners that quit leasing because of attitudes, and unreasonable done by hunters.

I think the OP was looking at it completely opposite way. Even though I don't think its a very practical way to structure a lease I think I understand his thought. His concept would be in FAVOR of the landowner to structure it that way. If you had a 12 month lease and it started and ended Sept 1st and for whatever reason there had to be lease money returned right after deer season with more than half the term left. If I was the landowner I wouldn't think if would be fair to return 7 months worth of money when the "deer" value of the lease has already been used up. If I was the hunter under this scenario I would expect very little money returned since the vast vast majority of the value of the lease is for deer. I think PMK sees it the same way. Maybe im missing something and if I am im sure someone will straighten me out.

You are correct. My thought stemmed from the other thread where multiple people suggested a prorated return.

The way I understand it, you pay what you pay and you make a deal for year round access or access during deer season only.

If you want to hunt deer in Texas, you almost have to get a lease or draw a lottery hunt. It's almost all private with little available deer hunting on public lands. Typically pigs and small game other than in national forests, which are almost all in East Texas and shotgun only.

So if you find someone that will make a deal with you and lease to you for hunting I wouldn't push it. Be thankful and try to show him that you are thankful.

Plenty of rural land in Texas for hunting, but you gotta pay to play if you want to hunt deer.

And people wonder why more and more properties are not being leased to hunters. Lease agreements. Hunters thinking once they lease it is their property. Hunters telling the land owner what they want done . And it goes on and on. Exactly why I no longer lease.

Spot on!

I guess the good ole days of a hand shake and two men's words are mostly gone. Our lease has operated the last 7 years with nothing more than a hand shake and simple conversation.

Landowner gave half our money back last season after the anthrax hit and said he'd give us the same deal for the next few seasons as the deer rebound. Good lease agreements and relationships can still be had without every rule imaginable being put on a piece of paper

That's the kind of man that I would want as a friend....

That requires two parties that have common sense, respect and maturity. Those three characteristics are often hard to obtain together.

Ain't that the truth. The hunters, not all of them are thrown into this, increasingly seem to be getting more and more out of control. They don't own the property, the extent of their involvement with the property starts and ends with recreational activities (mainly hunting and sometimes fishing). It's exactly like you said, they are beginning to think that they own the property and think that they have the right to tell the landowner exactly what should and shouldn't be done on the property. It makes it very challenging and nearly impossible to operate a ranch with hunting leases on it.

My thoughts exactly as a landowner.

I am on my last year of leasing, when this lease is over, it is over.

The money is nice, but the headaches are not.

My question was intended to be more thought provoking for everyone but primarily from a land owner's perspective. 90% of the responses regarding lease issues are "do you have a written lease agreement?" If you do then this topic might warrant some attention.

Mine was from a land owners perspective. When you start needing an attorney to write up a lease agreement and have it registered in the court house along side the deed to your property it becomes a little too much to take.

Seems we once had a lease agreement where the owner was to pay the hunter or hunters $150. if the lease was broken by the owner.

Two way street hunters must realize there is only one owner of the property and in turn would expect the owner to be ethical. Once had a owner tell one of our hunters that they can easily be replaced because hunters are a dime a dozen.

Pretty much correct. High percentage of folks that will take a place without meeting the owner or laying eyes on the property.

I used to let people hunt on my land while I was there and it wasn't bad. Decided to lease it and now they ruined it for everybody. I'm a nice guy. I'll give you plenty of rein, just don't try to pull it from my hand.

^^^^^THIS

Hook would you mind giving some examples of the wrong things after leasing? Don't doubt you just curious, been on the same lease for 19 years with no problems. Just takes common sense seems to me.

I came up one night and found a party going on in front of my camper trailer. What set me off the most was the way they trashed the spot my wife loved to sit look over the creek (trash down in the creek). People sometimes forget the land doesn't belong to them and they think because the landowner isn't there all the time they can do what they want. My neighbors reported hearing a shot and finding a wounded deer that would have been under the AR minimum on his land. Nobody would own up to shooting it when he asked them. I know mistakes happen but just admit it. My neighbor lives on his property and would stop by my place and check on it once in a while to make sure there were no water leaks. One day he found a deer in a hog trap they left set. This happened in 1 year. When the lease was up it was up.

Many LO's could give examples & write at least paragraphs if not multiple pages of ' what went wrong ' with people & leases on their property.
Those same folks could also write about great folks that leased their property years ago.

Seems as time goes by more & more LO's end up with more problems than it is worth to continue to lease for recreation/hunting.
IMO, generally speaking people have changed.

Also seems like the increase in LO lease problems relates to how close to a major city the property is.

Thanks Hook, have to say my feelings would be the same. Bad part is the good guys get penalized going forward just like the bad guys.

Rustler may have hit the nail on the head.

Problem is that it takes only one bad lease group to wipe out years of good ones.... a lot of the places we manage now, are a result of the landowners being sick of dealing with hunters. Sad.

Our best lease members, are large groups and families, that seem to care for the land like a landowner. Our worst, are the few that think the landowner should bend over, or change their decades long farm and ranch practices, for the hunting ... generally, landowners are very stable, calm, and patient.

The pro-rated system would never work for us.

Just my opinion but this kind of petty penny pinching is why a lot of landowners don't want to deal with hunters.

I have always treated a lease as something special. I felt I needed to take care of the land better than expected. Never had an issue,but saw plenty of buffons that didn't respect the land. I saw some horrible examples of just how some hunters treat others property when we started looking to buy land. After seeing it & talking to some of the people we bought from, I would NEVER lease anything out. It seems to be getting worse as the general population gets more of a me,myself & I attitude.

yep, my dad taught me to treat the land as if it were my own and to leave it in better shape than when I got there ... but your last sentence rings true to me as well as I would have a hard time on leasing any out due to the entitled way so many people are these days.

No reflection on you PMK but the guys who got me to stop leasing said the same thing. I'm sure there are other good guys out there because I was raised the same way. I'm just not willing to chance it again. I shouldn't have to police the area and clean things up.

My experience has been that the lease agreements were a product of the land owner.If you want to lease it, spell out how and what you want. Once its leased to your agreement it is theirs to use per the term agreements, so if that chaps you don't lease it. Personally I don't lease my land, didn't buy it for others to use.