9mm for grizzly protection

I probably still would not choose my p938 for bear, but...https://www.wideopenspaces.com/alaska-man-kills-charging-brown-bear-with-a-9mm-pistol/

Wouldn't be my first pick either, but just adds more support for the placement of the shot may be the most important part.

Btw, Phil Shoemaker isn’t just “some guy”, he’s one of the most experienced and respected bear guides in Alaska.

Curious why he chose 9mm?

Glad they were all unharmed....

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8521043/m/5281054342/p/1

Some commentary from the man himself.

Accuracy, weight, and effectiveness

Hard cast +p 9mm is wildly used

Thanks...had no idea...

wow, lucky is all I will say!

there used to be a big privately owned sporting goods store in Waco, on Valley Mills drive (if I remember correctly) that I used to frequent while in college (late 1970s). I recall one day I was admiring a full body mount brown bear that was standing with paws raised, weird spots in the center of it's chest (like bad taxidermy). An old guy walked up to me and started a conversation. Come to find out, it was the owner of the store and he was the one that shot the bear. He told me of the story as he was elk hunting when he came across the bear about 30 yards from him, who turned and started approaching him. He shouldered his Winchester 30-30 and when the bear was only about 10 yards away, it came up on its high legs, paws out like the mount. of course I was as he continued saying he started shooting at the center of its chest (explained the bad spots) as the bear continued towards him. He knew he was getting low on ammo and shoved the end of the barrel in the bears mouth and pulled the trigger as he turned to run. The bear came crashing down on top of him and he just knew he was fixing to be dead. But as it turned out, the last bullet went thru the roof of its mouth into its brain and he died, causing him to fall on top of the man. He said he got the bear mounted in the last position he saw it before trying to run. I was like WOW!!! He went on to say that was the last time he ever carried a 30-30 into bear country as all the rounds to the chest didn't penetrate the skin and were all balled up in the fur.

Only way you “drop” a bear is same way you “drop” a deer, rupture the central nervous systems communication ability, next way is to cause a stoppage /pressure loss of oxygenated blood in circulatory system

Essentially if you arent familiar with drawing and shooting the weapon you are carrying then it doesn’t matter what you carry caliber wise.

To each their own. Lower 48 bear country I rotate between 9 and 357sig, both hard cast

Personally i would want a 10mm.

I love my 9mm and it’s better than nothing, it it’s not my first choice.

I have not encountered a grizzly yet but I have black bear and I would want a bigger gun if I had the option

I always wonder about this. Read about many who carry a 44 mag or 454 casull for bear defense but think anything less than a 30 can magnum rifle is too small for bears.

After killing a ton of big hogs with hard cast and Leigh high 357sig and +p+ 9mm, I decided I’d be alright, especially since I would never carry a 10mm out side of 10 days a year.

I Think a big heavy 10mm pistol is a false sense of security if you seldom carry or shoot it.

Just my opinion.

Any pistol round is far inferior to a rifle cartridge. Most bear guides carry 12 gauges with slugs or lever action 45-70 marlins.

It’s about weight and pack ability.

What about a shotgun? More like this than a bird gun....

Every year it seams a bird hunter in Alaska or 48 kills one with bird shot.

My buddy had a glock 10 mm that was pretty easy to shoot. Shot a few hogs with it and they went straight down


As tough as a hog is they are not bears

Well 33 years and finally had to shoot one bear. Seems a lot like a normal carry gun, better to have what you will carry than something too big that you leave at camp etc. Nobody is probably going to carry a shotgun/rifle consistently while fishing or camping, but a standard size pistol in and OWB is pretty unnoticeable. After looking at these type things I think i would feel fine with my full power hardcast 40 loads, they match many 10mm loads, gust in a smaller package. 10mm/45 super and apparently the right 9mm will would be ok too. Cool article

With a full metal jacket and the shot hitting in the brain, it should do the job but if the bullet doesn't hit the brain- not so great. We live in a world of heart/lung shots and a lot of folks automatically aim thusly.

So, it seems that carrying a 9mm w/ hard cast is more common than I would have thought. I can see the thought process of carry what you are familiar with. What you can shoot well.

Cogdel's. Spent many an hour in there listening to hunting stories and even bought a few guns from them.

thanks, yes that sounds right! Cool store back in the day

They aren’t bears but closest thing from a plated vitals perspective.

Also in lower 48 you don’t find a ton of 500lb grizzlies either. Most recorded sow attacks are 300 lbs or <

I do like the 9mm for its high capacity.

My glock holds 15 rounds

I carry a switch.

Oh she'll be fine with that. As the bear charges she'll just whack you in the kneecap and walk away at a casual pace. My bear advice is to never flat out kill whoever you're with, you just gotta' outrun 'em. Besides, I've heard "playing dead" is a viable defense and the bear might lose interest in them and take interest in you. Your companion will be a much better distraction if they're writhing on the ground screaming in agony.

You need to know what type of attack is occurring to know how to response. Did you surprise the sow and cubs? If so, then playing dead may keep you alive. Is it a predatory attack? Then you better fight with everything that you have. Grizzly bear can go from being peaceful to full-blown apex predator in a split second. They can also cover some serious ground in a blink of the eye.

Once a grizzly's adrenaline kicks in, it is amazing how long they can survive despite being mortally wounded. I'm not talking about slow agonizing deaths like a gut shot. If you don't take out the CNS, they can stay alive a lot longer than you'd think.

Use what makes the most sense, or at least what you have. Fishing? Then a handgun with purpose-built ammo (ex: Buffalo Bore) makes sense since your hands are occupied. Packing out meat? Rifle or shotgun (no soft slugs). Hunting? Rifle.

I always heard a good grin would work.

Also a lot more capacity. Had a guide that carried one once. He said he preferred the extra rounds to the the bigger 6 shot guns.

9mm for bear , of course

The bear story is quite the tall tale.

How do....

From my recent Alaskan moose hunt I was inquisitive about what I needed to know as far as “protocol” for brown bear encounters go. My guides response:

“You don’t go anywhere without a weapon, no matter the day, the time, or the activity. I have a 10mm or a 416 rigby. You can take mine with or you can take yours (referencing late night bathroom runs), I don’t care which, but you must be armed. Any time of day a weapon must be on your person or within arms reach. All guns will always be loaded with safeties on unless situations (I.e safety regarding accidental discharges i..e climbing a tree) dictate otherwise. There are three bears that you must have heightened alert with (not that you can ignore any of the others):

1) young boar - they think they are hot stuff and adrenaline is pumping as AZ-Hunter mentioned above. They are usually all jacked up. They have something to prove & are willing to do so.
2) sow with cubs - motherly instincts drives them to do anything to protect her offspring
3) an emaciated/hungry bear - they take risks when food is available.”

We had two bear encounters. One while fishing which resulted in us simply watching each other from about 30 yds and that was it. The other was when a young boar was passing through as we were waiting on the river bank with moose meat in tow waiting on the Super Cub extraction. He caught wind of the meat and turned to make a b-line for it. The three of us (me the hunter, the guide & the packer) stood up w/ guns ready and positioned ourselves in between him and the meat. Several tense moments and a couple of bluff charges and it was over. Closest he got was about 15-20 yds. Even with three of us armed, I personally did not feel in control of the situation or felt like we had the upper hand. They are massive apex predators with explosive speed and power. I knew that if he charged I would like only get one shot off with my rifle before he would be on me or more guides. The distance they can close with one explosive leap is mind boggling. This compared to a realistic 3 shots max with a handgun. What’s the right decision? Great question.

It’s the Wild West out there, take what is most comfortable for you. Bigger may be better, but it ain’t always right. Lots to consider. Great read. Thanks for the link/post.

I wouldn't want to shoot a charging pitbull with a 22 short, I also wouldn't want to shoot a charging grizzly bear with a 9mm.

I'd rather shoot a charging grizzly with a 9mm than spray one with pepper spray

Yep

This is a classic case of: “A lot more hinges on the capability of who is holding a gun than most are willing to accept when assessing its effectiveness”.

Playing dead is not alway a good option. I was hiking to the Heart Lake geyser basin in Yellowstone with a fairly large group. At the trailhead we met a Park Ranger (young lady). She started down the trail about 45 min ahead of us. After about an hour we came upon her body. She had gotten between a mother and her cubs. The mother attacked and ripped her to shreds. She tried playing dead but that didn't work. She finally was able to crawl under a log and protect herself somewhat. The bear ripped her scalp off, punctured a lung and a kidney, bit off her left butt cheek, and tore the flesh and muscle off her left leg down to the bone. It took us almost 4 hours to stabilize her and get her ready to transport. She was one luck gal.

With all due respect... now remember i'm saying with all due respect i don't believe for a second that the hair stopped a 3030. It is a great story though.

And no disrespect by me. I love those stories and particularly the way those old timers could tell them.

Today we and particularly me often get caught up in facts. A well told tall tale is very entertaining, and certainly can be true or at least based on some truth with embellishments.

If your going to use a 9mm for grizzly defense make sure you file the front sight all the way down so it doesn't hurt so bad when the grizzly sticks up your...

I thought he was referring to the OT post about killing a bear with 9mm

My largest capacity 9mm carries two more rounds than my largest capacity 10mm. I think I'll stick with the 10mm.

That was painful to read.

I don't recall anyone carrying a 9mm for grizzly or brown bear when I lived in Alaska. 44 Mag seemed to be the preference, and folks made sure they practiced.

Interior or coastal ?

I was up in Wyoming on a back country elk hunt just outside of southern boundary of YNP in Oct and we had multiple close calls with Grizz. At one point, a pair snuck up on us and were as close as 40 yds.

Given that they can run over 30 mph, it would have only taken them approx 2.5 seconds for them to be on us from that distance. Whatever firearm you have, you need to have on you and readily accessible.

Yikes, where am I and where is my pistola?

Use hard-cast bullets, cause its a long way from your butt to your brain, when the bear shoves it up your azz!!!

I have family in Alaska and when this discussion occurs, caliber choices are all over the place. The only common denominator is hard cast.