The 2 types on landowners who lease

A recent conversation had me thinking on the subject of landowners. It appears there’s 2 types of landowners who lease property out for deer hunting. There’s the uninvolved landowner, & the involved landowner

1). The uninvolved landowner probably doesn’t live on the property, or anywhere near it. They probably inherited the land, & don’t wanna work it (like farming or ranching) because they likely already have a good job in the city. They’re just lookin to put a little money in their pocket for taxes & a vacation or make a few car payments.

The good thing about an uninvolved landowner is a lease group can set whatever management goals they want, shoot whatever they want. They can pack on the hunters if they want, or not; they can shoot out all the deer, or take a strict management plan.

The bad thing about an uninvolved landowner is they likely haven’t done much upkeep to the place, like roadwork, brushwork, or cultivation. They’re likely to have leased the ground for grazing also. & depending on who is “in charge” of the lease, there could be lotsa problems come up between guys who all think they are the “lease boss”. The main negative is that the land is more liable to sold or split up between family members (& then sold) or taken over by new people who may not wanna lease (maybe hunt it themselves).

2). The involved landowner may live on the place, or nearby. They may be there every day or at least some weekends to work on their place. They probably use the lease money for improvements to their ranch to some degree.

The bad thing about involved landowners is they may already have a specific management plan in mind that some hunters won’t like (# of deer to be taken, specific animals are not to be shot, etc). So hunters need to find a landowner who’s shares their hunting ideas & values.

The good thing about involved landowners is their place is more likely to have some work done (brush clearing, road work, etc) & they are less likely to be sold off. Also if there is a problem between hunters, the actual landowner may want final say on any matters.

The 3rd type of landowner doesn’t lease out, they likely want to hunt it themselves or let their kids/in-laws hunt.

Thoughts?

I think you're right. I think I'm the 3rd type, not because anyone but me is already hunting it but because I don't want to risk putting up with any BS from a bad leasee. I wish I knew someone who wanted to hunt it that I could trust. I used to have a friend that I had an agreement with. 1 day of work=1 day of hunt. He got to where he did less work and I pulled the plug.

Dang, I'd make that trade, depending on the size of the place and animal quality. Considering most guys pay around $250-300 a day that they actually hunt, those are great wages. That guy blew it.

3rd type here too. I've leased deer leases also, as recently as last year, and been involved with deer leases, off and on, pretty much since I was a kid (which is now getting to be a pretty long time ago). There are good and bad lessors (LOs), just like there are good and bad lessees (hunters, tenants).

The last couple of leases I've had have been on larger properties where the LO has leased out to more than one group of hunters. On one there were designated, large pastures for each group and on one it was, supposedly, your blind, one blind for each spot you buy. That was a joke. With multiple groups, there's always problems, someone or group getting jacked up over something that another group gets to do, kill, etc. I'd never lease in that situation again.

As far as "types" of landowners, I think there are all kinds of shades of gray of types of people that own land; just as varied as the human race.

Heir property usually includes multiple owners who carry different levels of involvement, and for that reason, can be extremely challenging to lease and manage.

Pretty much nailed it.

I'm #3.

#3 here as well. However, there could also be a #4. Those landowners who don't lease their land nor do they hunt it simply because they have no interest in hunting. I know a few like that. Actually, my neighbor to the north of me is a #4.

We are a mix of 1 and 2. Hunters help with upkeep on roads and projects that benefit them but we are close and I am one of the hunters as well. Management plan is mine no negotiating that because of the "shoot out all the deer" possibilities. I will likely transition to #3. If someone gets off or breaks any rules they will likely not be replaced. To be honest the money is never worth it

Number 3 here also. Son, grandson and close friends only. I have one place that I let a close friend hunt, free of charge, because he's a friend. Been down the lease road before, not worth the hassle to me.

I am a number 4. I don't want to lease but I need Deer taken off my place every year. I have a separate place that my Grandson can go to hunt. I do not want to have to manage my time as to when and when I cannot do work of my own property especially during the off season. I decide how many Deer I need taken off the property each year and schedule accordingly. I decide when I want hunters here and when I don't. It has worked out very well for me and the folks I have come out. And I don't put any stipulations on what WT can and can not be taken. I just deal in numbers.

#5 May or may not live on the property, doesn't hunt it and doesn't want anybody to hunt it. "Me and my wife, we just enjoy lookin' at the deer."

I have 50 years plus of hunting all over Texas on multiple leases. I have also owned my own ranch. My observations of LO's for what it is worth.

1. LO who wants your money but really does not want you to come hunt on his property. Makes things miserable with petty and silly demands and quirks.

2. LO who talks a good game when you are signing up for the lease - knows how to talk management and rules when selling it but does not enforce any of it. Never puts a penny back into the ranch for improving the deer. End result is usually chaos - guest running around everywhere shooting the place up. etc.

3. LO who is interested in truly managing their property and improving it and want hunters who they can trust and who will respect their property. These LO's invest back into their property to help improve conditions to try to grow bigger deer.

I have witnessed all of the above and have been blessed the last 12 years to lease from a number 3 type LO.

When I met him at lunch 12 years ago for the first time he looked me in the eye and said "lets do a one year lease and see if I like you and if you like me" - pretty straight forward and sounded fair to me.

He then said "when you or your group screws up (which you will) then just tell me and we will work through it. On the other hand, if you screw up and try to hide it then we will be done." I told him he had my word that is how I would run our lease - I also told him even though he did not know me from Adam that I would treat his property like it was my own - will pick up trash, close gates, follow rules, etc." I think he appreciated that and we have done our best to do that over all these years.

What evolved over the 12 years is total respect for each other and the result has been a world class lease with incredible deer. IMO it is like anything else in life - mutual respect between the two parties and everybody wins

# 3 here mostly.We bought land, because we had enough of bad landowners saying one thing & doing another. Will never lease, because We have been around too many hunters who don't respect the land or landowner wishes. I'm too old to put up with lese drama.

Ours is 1 except they live in town a few miles away and never worked in the city and hate it. They own several properties. But they like city guys since we aren't there for months at a time and never have to deal with us. They have lots of machinery they operate it as needed and well. They just have zero interest in hunting. Same as their kids who live in town as well with their families. Some of them work in the city due to career choice but home is small town
Good deal for us luckily.

#3 on TLK's List
Our hunter's have our interest and we have their's. It took several tries to find the right group and we had some doozies that we had to go through before we found this group. They raise cattle also and they call us if anything is wrong. Water troughs overflowing, no problem. They'll fix it or will call me if they can't fix it and tell me what I need to bring to fix it. It saves me a lot of time on the ranches. I always have an invite for breakfast, lunch or supper if I'm near the camp house. They manage the deer herd the way we want and they reap the benefit of trophies on the wall. They have become not just deer hunters but trusted friends of the family. As tlk said "mutual respect between the two parties and everybody wins".

Sounds like you got the right group. Our LOs host a BarBQ each year for the hunters. We give them a gift each year in return. Buy their dinner anytime we run into them in town.

The other thing we do is have an end of the year face to face meeting after each season. We discuss any issues that came up during the season and/or ideas on how to improve the ranch and deer herd. Lots of communication

1. Had access to 80 acres was only hunting 40 from two different sets of family that owned 40 acres each. 40 acres to the west 4 families owned 10 each only one of the owners from Colorado would come out there a couple of times a year.They just acquired 10 of those acres for 20 of the 40 and are building a barndominium to live there. They have given me permission to hunt the back 20 acres, not sure if I am going to mess with it.

3.The 40 acres owned by two families to the east where I have hunted forever has been awesome 99% of the time. I had free reign and for that I put in a lot of hard work keeping the property up, mowing, brush hogging, planting fields feeding year round etc..

Last year one of the owners decided to let friends and family hunt which is his right and I could hunt also just no guarantee of exclusive hunting during the rut, so I thanked him for all of the years and memories and got off the property, the other side of the family wanted me to stay anyways but to many folks on to small of property.

If I was a land owner I would not lease my land out to hunters unless I had a whole bunch of it and needed the money. I would charge fair market for what my land had to offer and I would set the rules on the hunting what can and cannot be taken and what kind of behavior is acceptable.

Even though I have not had a pay for lease per say in a long time, I applaud the landowners who do lease their land for whatever reason

I'm #3, but would not mind having one other person,(paying) out there with me. It's just safer when you are 70 not to hunt alone. Would use his money to improve the place and pay the taxes.

There is also the landowner who trust his hunters, and leaves them alone.
He sets the rules and we follow them. We keep the place clean, bring him venison sausage after the season and don't bother him, and he doesn't bother us.
He runs cattle on the place during the off season and pulls them out from late September to about May.
We first got on the place ten years ago and the hunters before us had about shot the place out.
Now we've got plenty of deer and some good bucks up to around 140 inches.

#6, the LO that gets cold feet early in season and has regret he ever leased his place in the first place especially after the first 140"+ drops. Though not the norm, it has and does happen.

Think the original post is pretty accurate. The only ways that I can see hassle of leasing working out for the land owner is if they are completely absentee and just about never go to the property or they really need the money, to me it's just like having a house guest every weekend, you may like them a lot but at some point in time you're ready for them to go home.

We lost our lease of 14 years to a # 4.....Mother gave land to the son and he simply didn't want anyone on it and to my knowledge, he does not hunt it either. Too bad....that was a really great lease but I certainly understand his position.

I used to be a #3 but let two friends come out and quail hunt. I also let a select few archery deer hunt till they got stuck in the "No Driving Area", they said it was okay to walk over. It was a wet weather spring that had no bottom but the dozer got them out. Still miss that place. As for #4 folks, there is several hundred acres near where I live now that is not leased and no one hunts. I asked about leasing it an was told they don't want any of their cows shot. I said I understood and thanked him for giving me that chance to ask. He looked shocked and I asked if he was okay. He said yes but that he had never been thanked for listening but had been cursed out several time for not leasing. Now I know why no one gets to lease that place.

I fall somewhere in between, our lo does not live on the property but is very involved because it is a cattle ranch, the hunting is left up to us. We turn in deer counts to get MLD doe tags every year and the only thing asked of me is to get one doe to the processor for the lo. It has worked great for us. Our lo is only interested in improving the cattle herd and the deer hunting is up to us.

On most any place around here if you don’t want grazing you will be paying for those rights also... Never had issues dealing with cattle or grazing lease holders.. is much rather lease from someone that’s hardly involved in the property

Majority of landowners are #3. I have never been on a deer lease and hopefully never will. You have to deal not only with the landowners but also the other hunters. I just want to hunt not deal with other people, I do that at work everyday. One of my coworkers who is on a lease somewhere tried to tell me the other day that you can’t feed deer regular corn, only “deer” corn, and he was dead serious. I will pass on hunting with those type of guys.

Let's be honest, if you're looking for a high percentage of Rhodes Scholars to interact with, hunting is not gonna be your best avocation. That's just the nature of the beast. I'm the furthest thing from a "people person", but even I know it's healthy to work on your "socialization skills" from time to time, outside of work. You might have avoided the worst by not being on a lease, but you've also missed out on the best.

The big ranch is a number 4. Well over 100 years old and never leased out for hunting. Coyotes, Feral Hogs and Rattlesnakes are the only critters get shot and most of that's by me.

We lease our place from A # 1 for sure.

I would say were #3 as well as our neighbors that don't lease, kids and grand kids might take 3-4 deer off of the 4,000 acres. One happy group and not that mad at them.Grand kids give the hogs hell though.

Sounds like an excellent system.

I ONLY ALLOW Rhodes Scholars on our lease - takes a little extra effort but once I see their certificates I let them join our group.

Well that's a camp I wouldn't mind cooking at one weekend, as a lackey, just to listen in.

Their first deer ever was a 150 inch 6 year old... College taught them that. I am glad I started hunting when I did with a friend of who taught me a lot. I didn't even know deer lost their antlers 20 years ago. Broke the 140 mark this year and don't care if I ever kill a buck again. Rather take my kids and let friends experience that now. Luckily some LOs still make that possible. Though I won't ever kill a young buck on my watch again unless instructed too. Hopefully some our leasors will learn that by now. Some just have to let their kids kill stuff.

#3

You have a lease that is #1 in West Texas.
I am #3 as far as my land but #1 on a lease.

I actually hunt more 3(Brady and Mason) but also hunt/lease 1 and 2... I said 3 because I will never charge or lease my place, to many friends I love hunting with

Creekrunner, if you get a chance with all those Rhodes Scholars, just remember to not inhale. At least that's what one Rhodes Scholar said he didn't do.

Creekrunner, if you get a chance with all those Rhodes Scholars, just remember to not inhale. At least that's what one Rhodes Scholar said he didn't do.

'Dat be the same guy that said "I did NOT have..." AND the same guy that road on Epstein's plane?

Bingo!!!

You don't have to be a Rhodes Scholar to figure that one out!

Agreed. I am also a #3 as I have purchased “some” land over the last few years.
However, I also currently lease land from both #1 and #2 LO’s.
Probably will never not lease land even if/when I acquire more property.
The cost of leasing is penny’s on the dollar.

In 100 years there will be no land left to lease as it will all be sold off to investment/recreational owners. Our LO I assume will give it to his heirs who don't hunt but luckily live near it. Probably raise the price I assume. They might lease it but after them it would be sold off as that is 2 non hunting generations who would have owned it. We will probably also have the highest WT and Turkey population ever as well by then.

So when this happens what happens to Ag?

Fact is we won’t have highest WT and turkey populations... a lot of research has shown that when ag(ranching/farming) leaves the land scape biodiversity goes down.... cattle grazing and pasture management is a substitute for natural fire that’s been suppressed.

Yes, I agree to an extent. I suppose I am referring to the time when everything other than grass was killed so you could run as much cattle as possible and grow as many crops possible. Mesquites are great shelter belts for many of us. You remove those like in the past deer numbers drops. A 1 acre wide tree line on a creek is not enough habitat. Deer would leave. Our place and surrounding areas didn't have deer on it 40 years ago and you can tell by what's growing now. It was bare. Quail was about it back then. My buddy has hunted Kent county since the 70s. It was quail, dove, and turkey only. Yotes ate M44s. He saw his first deer in the early 90s. Now that is all you hunt out there when brush stopped being controlled. All these places still have cattle like you said, they do their job to control too much brush. Wheat fields surrounded by brush are deer magnets of course.

We had a small fire from lightening a few years ago and driving by it last week, all blue stem and no weeds. Broomweed all around it but not there. Wish it would have burned more... The mesquites survived.

We have an 80 acre area that is not hunted surrounded by deep creek so cows rarely are out there if ever. I have never seen them there ever actually. It is 100% grass with trees mixed in and surrounded by thick brush with no broomweed. It's a sanctuary where the deer live. We hunt the perimeter but deer must cross creek to get to our feeders.