Offhand Shooting - Still Important?

Is offhand shooting skill still important or even relevant?

How many people could reliably hit a paper plate at 100 yards with no support other than a perhaps sling with their deer rifle?

I'm not talking about shooting off of a pack, balanced against a tree, sitting or kneeling, but standing up and shooting without sticks or any other support, except for a sling.

And I'll be the first to say, my offhand skills have gone way beyond rusty. I'm starting to work on offhand again and it is a considerable challenge, at least to me.

Just curious about others' thoughts and views on what appears to be a vanishing or even lost skill for the average hunter.

It would be nice to practice that shot occasionally. Unfortunately, you do that at most ranges and you will get a quick exit from the property. Could probably do both elbows on the platform but I agree with you. It's not the same.

It is absolutely relevant if you are at all interested in the more challenging types of hunting. I still practice that shot because I still depend on it. I can hit a plate at a hundred yards. Just make it a big plate, please.

I am blessed to have a thousand yard range a few miles from the house with a reasonable owner who allows such antics.

Relevant in the fact that it's the worst possible means at which to take a shot and should be avoided at all costs.

I did a lot of walk hunting growing up as a kid, and hunted rabbits and anything else that crossed my path, and I took that ability with me into the deer woods, since most shots were fairly close range.
Walking to and from my stand back then, I was still hunting, and not just walking.
As I got older those skills faded and became less relied on.
It's been many years since I even attempted and off hand shot, but I did take a coyote probably 8 to 10 years ago and got him.

Almost forgot about the hog I shot a few years back that was running full tilt directly towards me, and I dropped him with the last shot, at less than 50' after four shots from my Winchester 94 30-30.....True story!

Funny you bring it up, Jeff.

I avoid it if at all possible, but it has happened on two occasions in the last four weeks.

Heard the sounder while driving a dirt road. Put it in park, exited with LR-308 in hand, walked into the cedars, and there they were, they heard or smelled me, and were trotting left to right. I hit one sow in the lungs at 30 yards. It was a low ready, slow walk to raise the rifle and shoot, no time for anything else.

Tuesday this week, it was 25 minutes after sundown, and the sounder crossed the road in front of me, and were headed across a plowed cotton field. I put it in park, exited with the bolt action 7mm-08 A.I. crossed the ditch, made it through the dead Johnson grass, raised the rifle and shot. I heard the thud, cycled shot again, another thud, and did it a third time.

So I've had four off-hand shots very recently, but can't remember any others for the last few recent years.

(I was exactly 101 feet from any public road for all of these hog shots)

Yes. I try to avoid taking them, but will if I feel confident.

I do most of my practicing with my custom Ruger 10/22. I have a heavy barrel and Boyd's thumb hole stock on it. It gives it a nice weight to hold steady for free hand shooting. I had the trigger worked as well so it's very efficient hitting what your shooting at. I like to shoot the small target balls and keep them moving.

For me I prefer a rifle with a little weight to it for free hand shooting. The light weight rifles I find are more difficult to hold steady.

Marc,

17 pounders ain't no picnic either.

It's a very important skill to have, yes. Even tho most people shouldn't take the shot an a game animal, like a deer. Dry fire practice is good, then maybe trying your hand at shooting some hogs off handed.

Anyone who considers themselves a hunter, or rifleman, needs to be able to hit a pie plate @ 100 yds off hand.

Yes

I'll admit that's too heavy for me, lol. My AR-10 is as heavy as I want to go. But I like it for free hand as well. Not much recoil and sweet trigger.

Absolutely. If you do more than hunt once or twice per year from a stand, you'll need this skill at some point.

+1

Yes, and from different positions. It is still an important skill.

I grew up shooting birds and squirrels out of trees and chasing rabbits across my grandfathers regrowth pasture. I have never practiced it.

Few years ago when I first bought my 300 I was shooting it in a buddies gravel pit. He wanted to shoot it and stood up and off hand shot a bowling pin at about 120 yards.... Then the challenge was on, I couldn't be outdone with my own rifle. we went and set the pin back up and I shot from the same spot boom and down it went. Don't know if I could do it again or not and I haven't tried. I think if I had to I could body shoot a deer or hog at that distance but if there was any way I could get a rest I would.

I have killed three deer in my life offhanded. All when I was a teenager. I make more of an effort to find a good rest these days but I can still bust one offhand if I need to.

yep

Ok so I will bite on this one. There hasn't been very much controversy lately so here I go.
Not picking on MAX but the statement of "Anyone who considers themselves a hunter, or rifleman, needs to be able to hit a pie plate @ 100 yds off hand." A pie plate from what I found has a 9" diameter. I have not and would not take a chance to hit or not hit a deer sized or smaller "game" animal off hand at 100 yards considering a 9" impact killing zone. I am talking about game animals not varmints. And we could argue about the "ethical" shot thing for even non game animals but not going there. I am in my sixties and have never "had" to take that shot and I have been hunting a long time. I could have taken those shots but chose not to, never had to. In the same way, even in a blind, I use a rest even at short yardages not free handed. Why would we "need to or have to" take that shot off handed? Jason can and will correct me probably on this but in the Hunting Challenge we do off had shots at 200 yards at a size I do not remember? Some shooters hit it and some don't, luckily I get some of them. It is good practice to sharpen skills to shoot at different distances, different positions and even that "weird left handed Jason thing" haha. So just because we can, should we? And if you can be consistent at 100 yards off hand fine, more power to ya. I really am glad that you can, I believe it is a gift, but do you consider your self a hunter because you can or can't do this?

Anyway, been a slow morning so lets see where this goes.

Gary, it is a 12" square plate, from 150 yards, three shots.

As you stated, most do not clean it. It is tough for those that have not practiced it. The key to off-hand, in my opinion, is to be quick. Turn the magnification down, raise the rifle, get a sight picture and squeeze. David Petzel said "for that type shooting you have to engage your lizard brain". I take that to mean instinctive shooting, don't over think it.

Traditional bow shooters impress the hell out of me. I have a friend that does it, and he too draws, does not hold, release. I asked "how?" He said "it's like throwing a ball. That was good enough for me.

I've killed hundred of animals included hogs and yotes off hand out to 250 and a little further. I don't think I've ever shot a deer standing off hand though, kneeling, sitting and unsupported prone yes.

My standard use to be the pie plate at 200 when we use to do so much hog hunting. Now I barely get to the range a handful of times a year and won't even consider a shot like that.

It is absolutely important. It is essential. Do you guys field dress your own animals, or do you take them to the processor and have them do it? If you are walking down a sendero and a huge buck runs by and suddenly stops, turns and looks at you what do you do? Start breaking out your bipod? Try to unfold your shooting sticks? Smile and wave? Or do you take care of business with an off-hand shot? Really surprised by some of the ridiculous responses on this. Unethical? Really? I grew up shooting birds in the woods with my BB gun and all my shots were offhand. When I went into the Marines, part of the qualification course included offhand shooting. I have killed hogs, deer, and elk in the Rocky Mountains with offhand shots. It is not difficult, but should be practiced like anything else. Come on guys.

Should be avoided if possible, but sometimes you have to take it. I shot a good axis a few years back at around 80 yards offhand. Drilled it right in the heart. No time to take a knee and nothing to rest on.

Shot a deer around 40 yards with my 30-30 while walking in the woods...got that one too.

It has range limitations ( guys saying they can hit pie plates at 200 yards offhand I question) but yes, within 75-100 yards max range it’s certainly doable.

Not everyone shoots game from a truck or blind.

I do it when I need to at pigs or coyotes or whatever. Not too bad at it, if I do say so myself. Rolled a pig running full speed at 120 yards or so recently.

I do not feel good about it for game animals (say a nice buck). I'll do it if I have no choice. But I try to carry shooting sticks. The new expandable shooting sticks are so mobile they are very easy to carry while walking and stalking, and they take the mystery out of that offhand shot.

The guys I’ve found that are good at offhand shooting are really good wing shooters.

The shoulder, sight & fire method is carried out a lot in the quail and pheasant fields.

Ding, ding, ding

^^Makes compete sense.

lets talk about running offhand shots now.....that separates the men from the boys

He would have to be really close to me.
My buck this year I had a terrible rest but it was at least something and it was super windy crosswind hitting the side of me but I pulled it off at 152 yards. Freehand no way I could have hit that deer unless Luck.
Facing me direct at the edge of Timber. When he took two steps to his right to leave I pulled the trigger. Two more steps and he would be gone from sight except hind quarters.

Like I said slow morning,
Would that be the hunter running or the game running?

I have let deer walk because no shot. Ill take a questionable shot on hogs. Ive shot a few things off hand and running... none of them were deer thank the Lord and a VERY SMALL number of them were cleanly shot.

hunter running left, game running right.

Up hill or down hill?
Sun to your back or in your eyes?
North of equator or south?

I don't know what you guys are whining about.....if Robert De niro can kill a red stag with a off hand shot with a crappy 700 BDL, then you can too

Down hill because the sun is in my eyes while hunting north of the equator. Reverse if you are south of the equator.

My wife and my sister in law struggle with shooting. They can hit a target and have shot deer, but it takes the both of them an eternity to shoot a deer. I think its because they don't know how to stabilize themselves they didn't grow up running around shooting stuff like we did off hand, resting off a tree or limb or fence post or elbow or knee. I have tried and tried but they don't have much interest in practice and show little sign of improvement.

"lets talk about running offhand shots now.....that separates the men from the boys"

Like I said slow morning,
Would that be the hunter running or the game running? [/quote]

hunter running left, game running right. [/quote]

Up hill or down hill?
Sun to your back or in your eyes?
North of equator or south? [/quote]

Down hill because the sun is in my eyes while hunting north of the equator. Reverse if you are south of the equator.
[/quote]

Last and most important question
Hunting with a Savage, Remington, custom or Tikka's?
Makes a difference because,
Savage's don't eject
Remington's shoots by itself
Customs, because of the wad of money you paid for them, you have to get a kill
Tikka's, just to rattle JG's can.

A good High Power or Silhueta shooter can make that shot reliably.

A friend who is a top tier High Power competitor said a person will learn to shoot offhand when they are standing in brass up to their a**.

[/quote]

Last and most important question
Hunting with a Savage, Remington, custom or Tikka's?
Makes a difference because,
Savage's don't eject
Remington's shoots by itself
Customs, because of the wad of money you paid for them, you have to get a kill
Tikka's, just to rattle JG's can.
[/quote]

Easy: Custom with a Remington action keeping the stock trigger!

I shoot off hand all the time. Many times when stalking hogs I don't have time to grab or setup a tripod so I just free hand it.

Well done, Gary!

I guess im in the minority here. Most of my deer and pig kills have been off hand. In fact the last nine pigs were all shot standing unsupported. Until this thread, i had never really thought about it. I have a 10" plate at 200 yards i shoot unsupported. I never worried about being perfectly steady until i started shooting longer ranges. I guess I assumed wrong that most people could do this.

What is it considered when you lean out the driver's window to shoot a pig in front of you?

When I think of "off" hand, I think of opposite handed. Shooting left handed if normally right. Hunting in TN and in the woods walking or up in a tree, cuz there is no baiting, we have to find the deer, every shot taken if "free" handed to me. Just different way to say it. I have only shot 1 deer what I call "off" handed, wouldn't hesitate at all "free" handed. Sometimes it actually feels weird having a rest when hunting here in TX in a stand.

Road hunting.
Just kidding, I think

It was in a pasture, just too cood to get out that day.

It's not a matter of could it's a matter of should. I was dropping 32 inch Ram Silhouettes at 500 yards offhand with a rifle back in the 70's and early 80's but I'm still not going to take a shot at an animal without some kind of support unless I have absolutely no choice. Hell I've even shot those same rams at 500 with an open sight pistol. On the rams my targets 32 inches tall, on an animal my targets less than 3 inches.

A normal day on the ranch.

I guess I don't understand. I don't see a problem with it as long as its within reason. If a person is confident in their ability and knows he can make the shot, I have no problem with it. Just know your limits.

Basic shooting skills are a lost art. Take away the bipods and shooting sticks, throw in old fashion range estimation and Kentucky Windage, and the average shooter today is lost. Not enough grew up shooting .22's like they were going out of style today. I remember skipping lunch in Junior High everyday so that I could spend the money on .22 shells.

Don't forget about just leaning your rifle on the stand's window sill. I've been trained to shoot offhand in a variety of situations so I'm nonplussed at the thought of it.

the first likely 15+ years I hunted, our stands were merely a couple of 2x6 nailed up in a fork of a tree without any type of rest for the rifle ... or it was merely a big brush pile that was hollowed out in the middle with a stump or folding chair, but no real rest to put your rifle on. Likewise, we did a lot of spot and stalk hunting going to/from a stand/hunting area as there weren't any feeders to sit and watch for hours ... everything back then was pretty much off-hand or free-hand without any type of support for the front of the rifle. Even a bit later, going to CO/NM hunting, I quickly learned how to do a wrap of the sling around my forearm to drastically steady for longer distances (learned that technique from Korean era Marine sniper co-worker). So in a nutshell, that's how I was raised ... flash forward to present day, I don't shoot near as much as back then and I am not near as confident in trying to make those shots at any longer distance, but wouldn't hesitate out to 100+/- yards if I had too.

That is your military training kicking in, instant reaction like an ambush. I could do the same up until about 30 years ago, but got away from it.

You know how much fibbin goes on with modern ranges and we have laser range finders... I have no doubt that the majority of 500 yard shots in the old fashioned range estimation and Kentucky windage days of yore were more like 200 lol.

guarantee it

That’s how I grew up too. I suppose I am a decent offhand shooter - a lot of dead hogs and coyotes at my place would say so anyway. Especially if they were stationary at the time. Running shots are a little trickier, but I hit my share even with them. Most of my offhand shots are with an open-sighted Marlin 336 levergun.

I have no idea how my offhand skills stack up against others, doesn’t really matter.

I shoot offhand quite a bit, using one of the 22 lever guns I have. I’m still pretty good when I wrap up in the sling, per USMC training. And, with the 260, I got my first buck of the season back in November. 80 yard shot or so. That said, I’ll use a rest any time I can. Offhand is always going to be my least accurate shooting position.

I shoot off hand every time I hunt and that is a lot. I never use sticks, don't like dragging them around, tried it once. I don't use a sling just because shots are spot and stalk in thick stuff and usually pretty quick. If I have an animal out in a field etc...where I can sneak up to a fence post or use a tree I will but never considered not using something to be a hindrance in anyway.

Good skill to have, especially if you like to still hunt, or spot and stalk. I've taken plenty of pigs and a few deer with the offhand skills I learned plinking with my .22 and shooting squirrels. At our shooting range at the lease, we have some old Chevy differential ring gears hanging from a frame at about 50 yards. Those make for great offhand practice with a .22, because you can't just aim for the middle. You have to be precise enough to hit the edge to ring it. The last time I scored with offhand shots, I was stalking through an area of the lease where we'd been getting lots of pictures of pigs at the nearby feeder. I had worked my way along the fence line, and then followed a dry creek drainage. I had actually given up on my stalk and was walking back towards where I had left the truck when I heard a pig oink. I turned back toward the creek and spotted a good sized sow down there next to some thick brush. I popped her with my 6.8 at about 75 yards and then the brush exploded with piglets. I keyed in a piglet running up a trail to my left. It got to about 30 yards and I made a perfect head shot on it at a dead run. Then I spun around and spotted another one coming up the bank to my right at warp factor 9 and I nailed that one right in the shoulder. It is so satisfying to be able to make shots like that.

I think it's always going to be important. I try not to take them but do practice them and dry firing off hand a good bit, may just be psychological but it seems that when my off hand shooting improves pretty much every other position improves as well

That's victory right there! No other feeling of satisfaction laying down hits like that! Congrats

A slow Tuesday

Squirrels in the backyard with the pellet. Great practice for off hand shooting

Had to make one this season on a coyote, a 145yd one...sketchy but got it done. Thought about kneeling but there were small sharp rocks and prickly pears everywhere.

I use it all the time. Last year shot a doe at 80 yards off hand. Marlin 1895 guide gun outfitted with a ghost ring peep sight. I shoot pigs with that rifle all the time offhand. Granted, it is a nice short carbine, and easy to keep it steady when shooting off hand. It's hard to hold a 22 or 24 inch barreled rifle with a big scope steady enough to shoot offhand...IMO

as pappy once said : offhand it depends apone the type hunt.
Sitting in a box stand watching feeders & food plots, prefure ta use a rest.
When hunt & stalk, if can, use a rest. On my hog hunts, usually in the thick of things, shot opportunities were short range & split second window of opertunity.
If have the chance & time permits, any type rest increases your odds.
Shooting threw the pipe. Pick up a 1/2" pipe, look threw it. Further the distance bigger the miss.

I have always viewed off hand shooting as more of a natural talent than something where a high level of performance can be achieved through practice. Yes, anyone can improve their performance by using the proper mechanics and much practice. But those who don't have the natural talent for it can never achieve the skill level of those who do.

IMO, the talented or "gifted" ones have a natural ability to quickly aim a gun at a specific point seen by the eyes in a fraction of the time that most can achieve. How else can I explain how a guy can drop a deer with a 30-30 rifle after it lands just once when running across a logging trail. It's just one of many skills and talents that have been tossed to the side as old office chairs and shooting windows have become more the norm.

It probably really depends on the kind of hunting you do as to whether you really NEED to be able to make that shot. If you hunt exclusively from a box blind or tree stand...probably not a terribly important skill to have. But if you still hunt, spot and stalk or hunt western big game, even just occasionally, then I think its very important.

That said, a 100 yard shot at a standard paper plate with a scoped rifle is a pretty easy shot. Even off hand if all you need is to hit the plate. So I would say that anyone who wants to be a proficient hunter/shooter should have that ability.

I grew up jump shooting jack rabbits in the NM hills. There is nothing that prepares you for shooting offhand or snap shooting as trying to knock some hair off a hare.

I've shot 3 deer crouched and without a rest. All 3 were under 50yd. I've been hunting much less than most, and the need to shoot unsupported has come up even for me; I personally think offhand shooting is relevant still, but definitely not as "important" as before.

I think the need for shooting offhand while standing is pretty much diminished in North America. However, I also feel that those that put in the time behind their rifles just practicing in general are better equipped to take those shots in difficult situations.

I shoot small game off hand with .22 and air rifles all the time, from 0-30yd, scoped and unscoped. I also practice shooting free hand routinely with my air rifles. That's about the extent of my willingness to shoot offhand, though I would like to shoot at paper/steel at 100yd...

I shoot offhand quite a bit. It's challenging and fun. As far as hunting I've killed a lot of birds, a lot of pigs and a few coyotes offhand without a rest. I don't see what is so controversial about it. Like most things, either you are competent at it or your not. Everyone's mileage will vary.

.

bunch of this on this thread


SO, hears mine, Shot my buck this year, as I was walking up to field dress him, he decided the Berger Elite Hunter didn't really hurt him that bad, so he decided to run, He stopped at about 50 yards, luckily I was at "low ready" Really Jason, low ready???!!! Thought I was watching the tactical experts on TV, any way, threw up the Barret killed him.

back in the day The Spring Branch Lions Club in Houston and the Lions Club in Onalaska held a REAL turkey shoot, 100 yard clay Turkey heads, smaller than actual size. $2.00 a shot off hand, lets just say I took home my share of turkeys...


"Uh HUH, That's right, we bad!!"

What's the problem? That's what it's called.

Firing hand on the grip, support hand on the forearm, barrel down, trigger finger om the stock pointing toward the muzzle.

Sorry it hurts your feelings to now kmow a term.

I think it's still an important skill to have, but I don't practice it like I should.
A few weeks ago I was hunting the second dove season with a friend (I leased the property from him). He had steel targets set up from 200 yards to 556 yards, so we had a little fun after the hunt. He and I both hit a 12" steel plate standing unsupported at 200 yards with a .22-250. Even though I was pretty proud of my hit, I quit while I was ahead because I'm honest enough to know I had a little luck on my side and the next shot would have just as likely been a miss.
The only deer I've ever shot unsupported is an 8 point on my wall that I shot running at 40-50 yards. If I can find any means of support I'll take that over unsupported any day.

Maybe once you get your new rifle you should spend some time learning to shoot instead of hiding behind your keyboard being a little smartass. Even though your family and mentors failed you, it's not too late to become a decent man.

Where did that come from?

I'm always low and ready

I was thinking the same thing???

Nobody has mentioned triggers and multiple rifles. To get really good offhand, you need to be very ‘familiar’ with the rifle trigger. Of course that also applies to shooting off of sandbags, but I think is even more important offhand. If I switch rifles, my shooting will be a bit off till I get familiar with that rifle trigger. I missed a hog at about 220 the other day when the very light trigger(on a rifle I don’t hunt with too often) caused me to shoot a heartbeat before I wanted to. I was shooting off a rest at the moment. Take that, which i’ll term a lack of trigger control, and combine it with the wobbly scope reticle you’ll have shooting offhand, and you have complicated the situation. The “one gun” guy will likely be the fellow with great trigger control, if he shoots a lot.

Me too...somebody's not happy

IMHO & YMMV ....The so called "Lazy Texas Style" hunting of sitting over a fenced corn feeder, shooting out of box blind ( aka "shooting house" )at usually under 200 yards off a padded window rest has almost degraded Offhand Shooting skills out of existence. That style of hunting almost cost me losing the ability to pass a required Shooting Test to Qualify for a Hunting Permit on the only Moose Hunt in Finland I would have ever been on. The 12 man squad of Europeans & Canadians I was with ALL easily passed the 100 meter moving target test with little effort, while I struggled to remember how I shot jacks rabbits as a preteen in West Texas with a 22 rifle, and was allowed a 2nd practice round in the deepening rainy evening that required the use of car headlights to even see the target as it moved at 40/50km across the rails of the targrt track.

Yes, I hunt that Lazy Texas way too for the most part, but I have also tried to keep my Offhand Skills fuctional whenever possible as well on targets of opportunity, and have made enough kill shots on various critters close and out to 200+ yards successful shots as well. One shot I made, that resulted in the Texas Mule Deer hanging on the wall over my head as I type this, when my hunting partner missed his coin flip earned shot at under 75 yards, when we had spooked the sleeping Muley out of the bottom of a dry wash.

Another memorable offhand spur of the moment shot was when I was being derided by my guide on a famous ranch in the Rio Grande Valley for refusing to take an off hand shot, standing chest high in a huisatch thicket, at the biggest WTail I've ever seen, off hand at over 500 yards. As we walked away aftrt the monster buck and his harem spooked, we jumped a large jack rabbit out of a Pear Cactus patch when the guide sneered at me that I probably could not have even hit the sitting rabbit...and busted the bunny after he got up to full speed with a new to me rifle at about a 100 yards. The 7Rmg prototype & cheap red box Federal 150gr'er sent the Jack 30-40' up into a overhanging mesquite with a perfectly centered hit in the middle of his ribs that left all 4 legs, head and back untouched and shut the guide up all the way back to camp, 20 miles away.

Good Offhand shooting skills will give the Hunter the confidence to make what ever shot is presented, instead of watching the critter disappear while the Blind/Bench Shooter hestitates to get setup looking for a tree or something to lean on. My longest kill shot was made leaning across the fender of the guides Bronco, offhand, at 444 yards uphill with a 257Rbts & a slow non +P 100gr WW Siver Tip 100gr on a Wyoming Pronghorn, and later watched in amazement at my partner make a 500+/- yard off hand shot, on the 3rd try with a BAR 7Rmg, at a Pronhorn that was running flat out..but then Bob Welsh was a long term ranked trap shooter in those days too.

The negative and uninformed comment & reponses I saw recently here on THF about the term "Low Ready Position" tells me everything about the differences of the Hunter and a Box Blind/Bench Shooter. FWIW I am happiest in the field tiptoeing thru the hunting area looking for targets of opportunity that most Blind Shooters will never see....just getting too dang old to do it much anymore, besides sitting in box Blind is Boring.
Again, JMHO & YMMV
Ron

What terms folks use or know doesn’t tell you one thing about their abilities as a hunter.

Some of the best hunters I know don’t know the fancy lingo and never will. They still call cartridges “bullets”, magazines “clips” and wouldn’t have a clue what the “low ready” position is - even though they’ve been carrying their rifles in that position while still hunting for over 50 years.

Nog, "When In Rome" you speak the language that the people you are with can understand, I no arguement with that. I learned to speak East Texas too, and am not put off by it.

The point I'm trying to make is not about what you call something, but being able to Shoot Offhand Skillfully when the opportunity presents itself, instead of being relegated to depending on a Box Blind/Bench Rest approach only.

In Finland the Brit's drove me nutz with some of their eupheisms and I could not understand or attempt to use the same head up & erect offhand shooting style, but I had an experienced American "interpretor" explain stuff, named Howard French, who was the Editor of Guns & Ammo magazine at the time, and had hunted all over the world for many years. I learned to follow him around like puppy, to catch the nuggets of information I've never had access to before or since.

The other thing I learned in Finland about myself, was that I was not using a traditional fore and aft, elbows under offhand rifle stance, but feet spread more side to side, shoulder's squared, elbows out like wings, like a birdshooter swinging the gun side to side that was what I had the most experience with. That comment was from the Scot who attemped to offer me the most advice after he'd just scored a perfect score on the Running Moose target...and has helped me over the years immensely when I get lazy.
Ron

This thread made me dry fire it about 5 times yesterday. I tried a 12" plate at 300 that afternoom, and missed right. That's the only target I'm somewhat lined up with from inside the shop. I knew it as soon as I squeezed the trigger. Looks like a new target is going to be built for 100 yards off the shop.

This discussion had me doing some dry firing last night as well and there is plenty of room for improvement. The 22 is coming out this afternoon to work on offhand.

Excellent posts Wiley.

Where in Texas has moving targets for rifle for practice? I used to shoot skeet competitively at a pretty high level long ago, so am comfortable with movers, but have no idea how much lead is needed with a rifle as compared to a shotgun.

Jeff, you can of course calculate the lead on a moving target and get very close to what the actual lead needed will be for a moving target. For videos of running shots look around on Double Naught Spy's Youtube channel and video's he posts on here.

Dirt pit in Mississippi I shot at for years had a "road" going down into it and we could safely do moving shots at tires with cardboard taped over the hole. The way the "road" was cut there an area for someone to roll the tire from behind a hill from the shooters and the shots were taken about 45 degrees to the side of the location behind the hill from about 80 yards away. Not great for long range practice but sure opened some eyes to lead distance for deer in front of a pack of deer hounds where hunting with dogs is still alowed.

The only moving targets location I have seen in Texas was about 16 or so years ago A ways East of Junction on the McNutt ranch. That was a private range.

Wow, welcome back! By far the best post is just seeing you back!

Kevin,

I can plug the numbers into a ballistics program, but how fast does a deer and a pig run?

Agreed.
Good to see you around, Kevin!

They run different speeds. IDK the answer to becoming proficient except to shoot a lot. The last coyote I shot was running flat out - hit him on the second shot because the first one was obviously behind him. Felt like I led him 6-8 feet the second time.

I simply won’t shoot at a running deer anymore unless it’s a follow up shot or he happens to be right on top of me. Before I go after Cape Buffalo in Africa I plan to practice moving buff target shooting as much as I can. The well-known shooting place in central TX Boddington and lots of other bigwigs attend had a course and classes just for that.

I’ve seen an article or two from Boddington on that course. Sounds like a lot of fun.

fast draw was a hobbie, back in the day.
WMA hog hunts were all off hand chooten, all short range, started use the AR-15, not much of blood trail with that small of cal, most blood stays inside.

Ya'll see if you can find a live creek that is flowing steadily, early in the fall and see if you can hit floating leaves from a high over head bank, so nothing richochets. A 22LR is a good tool on those kinds of shots, and you'd be surprised how much your Off Hand Game Shots will seem easier whne you get used to computing lead at a glance. Squirrels on the ground is another fun day, with no straight away shots ever...and use only a bolt action rifle instead of a spray and pray big magazine shooter.

Given my laundry list of ailments over the years, I adapted the classic rifleman's stance of front foot almost pointing at the target, the rear foot almost perpendicular but not behind the front foot and a little off to the side, knees slightly bent with the front leg bent the most, forward arm/hand extended and directly under the rifles forearm, shoulders locked with any excessive recoil absorbed from the hips and the trigger hand's elbow almost tucked into your ribs...is what I came up with for myself. Any swinging movement needed to stay on target, is from the hips and not the waist or shoulders.

This setup is what works best for me, and has given me successful rifle shots on everything from running turkey head shots at 60-70+ yards with a 270, to a cull buck at about 175+ yards that was running flat out with a head start. The bullet hit his onside front foot just above the hoof & broke his ankle, and gave me a pass thru at the low'ish mid point of the crease, again with a hot 270 as I swung past him like shooting a low and away trap shot...and made my partner stone quiet for a while, for a change. My partner was GTG with the standard Field Positions he'd learned in the his 90 Day Wonder School, but never learned anything other than that in field shooting a rifle as a Red Leg Artillery Officer.

Shooting Off Hand is just another tool in the toolbox, and the Hunter with the most tools has more fun, IMO.
Ron

FTW Safari Course. The targets move and charge you.

I’ll check it out thanks!

NP
To practice the charge setup, set up targets 25y 20y 15y 10y (I like hanging water jugs 4 feet from ground). Set a shot timer. Make rifle ready and hold in position you would use following wounded game. Best if a partner calls charge at random but you can just start shooting or have timer signal start. Start at furthest target and shoot as fast as you can hitting all of them. I do this before going to Wyoming elk hunting, not for elk but G. Bear.

Adjust your target number to rounds gun will hold. I practice with 22 and work up to the final tool leading into the hunt.

That sounds fun and practical to boot.

We need to get our Biesen rifles together and sling some lead.

Want to make it a greater challenge or need a tiebreaker? Add opposite shoulder shooting to the mix.

I can think of at least one nice buck that I was forced to pass up because I wasn't skilled or experienced at shooting from the opposite shoulder. I was in a ladder stand when he came up behind me close to my right. No way I was going to swivel my shoulders without getting busted.

That particular exercise would be for the bigger rifles though.

Years ago I might have been 9 or 10 read something in Outdoor Life that I am glad I did. If you want to be a hunter ready for any angle shot you have to be able to shoot from either shoulder proficiently. I took that to be important and only shot my BB gun left handed until I could hit as well or better than I could right handed. 14 one shot kills on deer from my left shoulder over the years tells me it still works. Then again I am right handed but left eye dominate which helps the left handed shooting I am sure

You can shoot my Biesen 22, 243, 270, 3006, 375 and 458, but bring yours too.

Wow!
They told me at the Sheep Show in Reno that Roger is no longer building rifles.

Yes he is done, daughter is still engraving but no more rifles.

I grew up at our lease in llano idling down the dirt road until some quail crossed the road. I would jump out and throw down on these quail knowing my Ruger 22 had to be aimed a little high and to the left to hit them. I was very proficient in knocking them down. I still have the .22 and this thread encourages me to pick it up again and practice some more. The best deer I ever shot were offhand out of tree stands one I had to turn around and shoot free hand and the other was offhand about 100 yards away. 13 point and 10 points both around 140! You never know what will make the difference!

Well, this discussion motivated me to go practice offhand with a 22lr yesterday. The results leave plenty of room for improvement.

Figure if I post the results, I'll hold myself accountable to keep improving and hopefully encourage others to get out and give it a go. The practice was challenging, especially with the target rocking back and forward in the wind, which added a good variable for practicing hunting shots. How much the wind rocked the rifle in the offhand position was surprising. The only support was a sling.


Warmed up with 8, 10 shot groups (80 shots total) on the 1/2" red dots standing shooting off of a pack on the bench, which was more wobbly than prone off of a pack. Made some progress, so moved to offhand with the sling on the Shoot'n See next. The 8 ring is 4", the 9 ring 3", the 10 ring is 2" and the x is 1". Will keep after it and post up a progress report periodically.

120 shots total offhand at the Shoot'n See. Distance was 15 - 20 yards.

So, get out and give it a try with a 22, it is really good practice and just plain fun too.

Alright, alright!

I'll do it tomorrow with the 10/22.

My sister shot a 207 class buck this year free handed after stalking him through the brush 300+ yards. She was out of breath and actually missed him on the first shot but dropped him on the run with the second. Once in a lifetime low fence deer. I'd say it's important to practice. I would add pictures but can not figure out how. If anybody knows how and would like to see pm me and I'll send them to you to post.

JB..Do you hunt with a bolt action or self loader? I'm assuming these were shot with a self loader, but any off hand practice is a good thing. The wind giving you a "moving target" is also a factor that may have given you fits for group sizes but also emulates field conditions.
Ron

Ron,

yes, the 22 is an upgraded 10/22.

I hunt with a bolt rifle. I used to practice offhand, but fell out of it for no particular reason and the results show it is a perishable skill. The bolt rifle will go into the offhand practice rotation, but for now would prefer to burn 22 ammo while rebuilding the skill. Once the 22 reaches a modest level of proficiency, then will move the target back, but need to master this step first.

Yup, that's what I did some years ago in just that same sequence when I was trying to teach my hard headed oldest the tricks of the trade...he'd been thru the 10-22 and I'd picked up a very early Ruger Stainless Ranch Rifle in 223 and we'd gone to longer ranges...but he finally gave up due to teenaged peer pressure time requirements.

I might give that a try again myself now that I have easy access to a private range...just too many fish to fry at the moment. Good luck with the effort...and keep showing you know who the purty pictures of your success....
Ron

Have some friends in Southern Arkansas where it is legal to use deer dogs. Heavy timber and rough country. Dogs in the low areas pushing deer to the "standers" on the log roads. Offhand shooting is all they do and they are dang good at it.

Definitely relevant to practice. My most recent deer kill was offhand and 130+ yards away. I had already been hiking about 45 minutes, headed down a long trail to get to where I would hunt that evening; I came around a bend and saw her grazing. She hadn't noticed me yet so I unslung my rifle popped open the scope covers and took the shot unsupported; for fear that any more movement would get me busted. I was already worked up and sweaty from the hike, then with the added excitement it was not and easy shot to take.

I don't think I could hit a garbage can at 100 yds. off hand......LOL

Well I'm glad to see there is at least one honest individual on the board! Thanks Snake.

Never been very good at it and never practiced enough to be I guess. I shoot off hand at varmints or hogs but rarely at deer anymore. Last buck time I shot offhand at a buck was a Mule Deer in West Texas om 2010. Before that it was at a WT I had rattled in and he was 70 yards away back in 2004 or 2005. I rattle in an Axis buck on Kerr WMA during a Dec WT hunt and shot him in the neck at 80 yards in 98. I missed a really good WT buck at 140 yards or so offhanded back in 1999. It would have to be a follow up shot anymore for me I think or when rattling for a close range shot. If I practiced it daily then I would probably be more confident in taking the shot.

A good reason to build you a custom 10/22 to practice with. They are a lot of fun.

I think it's time to put together a .22 off hand shooting tournament. Any volunteers for a place to shoot?

As usual I'm late to the party

That sounds like what the men do at my family reunions. Including skeet shooting with a 22. I'm reading some of the rediculous thoughts some have about hunting and offhand shooting and it leaves me shaking my head in disbelief. When I read some of this stuff it becomes crystal clear why so many are clueless when it comes to the concept of a light weight quick handling, easy pointing rifle, and how to use one....
It is a skill that apparently was never learned by quite a few. Come on guys. Are you aware how much you are limiting your capabilities? Not to mention how much fun you missing out on.

You never know till you try. I shot a huge gobbler out of the air with a browning buckmark .22 pistol. I have two witnesses. And I videoed myself shooting a running javelina in the head with a 357 pistol. Was it luck? He77 yes. But it I wouldn't have had that awesome experience without trying.

I offhand shot the biggest mule deer I've ever seen (admittedly at 75 yards broadside). Would I have rather had a rest? Yes. But I had hunted 5 hard days, it was my last evening, and those deer can disappear extremely quick, and if they're running, it's an up and down nightmare.

I have no problem taking chances with turkey's and varmints. I don't recommend it for big game. But sometimes you gotta go with what's available.

I don't have a range on my ranch in mountain home, but I have plenty of space.

I will send you a PM about it Rusty, very gracious of you to offer.

Ok.

I bought a bolt action .22mag in 2003 and have shot it daily if not weekly since then. More close range off hand shots though.

I had someone tell me ask me after I made what I consider a lucky shot on a coyote running down a sendero away from me at about 275 yards. Shot was off of a shooting rest on a Ranger. I immediately said out loud "that was a lucky shot". One of the guys with me asked me "if I had tried to kill that coyote"? I said "yes". He said "then it was not really lucky then was it?" I guess it would be luck if it was your first shot ever.

Honestly I can’t ever remember shooting at something with a .22 that wasn’t offhand

no telling how many thousands of deer, hogs, raccoons, ringtails, fox, skunk, possum, squirrel, rabbit, etc. I have killed with offhand shots ... so yes, it's still important, at least to me.