Your opinion on High fence deer vs low fence deer?

Do you think hunting high fence deer (1000acres+) is considered hunting as if you were hunting low fence deer? As meaning its a trophy to you. Some people say they are penned deer like pets? Just asking what yall think. Im trying to do a hunt 2017 with the wife and have her take her first mounted deer.
Dave

Have you checked references on the place your hunting? Maybe get some opinions of some people that have hunted there. 1000 acres your probably good. Some places can be divided up inside the perimeter fence and be hunting even smaller sizes. Just check your references on the place and that should give you an idea on what the place is like.

Yes, it's a hunt like anything else.

Some people say using a feeder isn't hunting or it's cheating. Just go out, have fun, and be safe.

1. Welcome.
2. You just opened the most contentious, recurring, divisive, bring out the holier than thou types can of worms on here.

'Saw a "South Texas low fence hunter" sticker on a Land Rover the other day. Didn't know they had stickers. He roared up to Academy, ran in, and had a clerk carry and load two bags of corn for him, then sped off. Go get 'em Tiger.

It's taken 4,842 threads, but bygawd we're gonna solve it this time!!

I think Cutis gave you the best advice finding what you will consider to be a fun hunt.

Hunt the way you enjoy, don't worry about the way others want you to hunt. The deer are just as dead from high fence or low fence.

I currently hunt low fence but I wouldn't give a second thought to hunting a 1000 acre HF place. My only question would be when does the hunt start?

Good luck with your search for your wife's hunt.

It's a good experience. It is a lot harder than you think. High fence usually guarantees you see a lot of animals but it doesn't mean the one you're after is going come out.

What these others have said. Enjoy the hunt whatever it is. And FYI hunting a HF can be more difficult than LF depending on the ranch and how you hunt it. I tried to made a deal a while back when some were saying that hunting a HF is like shooting animals in a pen. I had a good Axis Buck in 300 acres or so HF. I said that I would let the hunter in at daylight and pick them at sunset. They would give me $2000 when I let them in the gate. If they killed the Axis I would give them the $2000 back. If not I got to keep the money. Not one taker.

Thanks yall. I live down in Florida hunting wma areas. So i wanted to hit texas again. I hunted woth live oak hunting lodge in eldorado and had good time. Got my 10 point there. Yall have great deer.

Low fence = hunting
High fence = harvesting at the zoo

Who cares what anybody else thinks? If you have a great time, then that's all that matters. I've never had a bad hunt on a HF ranch, but I have had some horrible experiences on Public Land.

Several of the High Fence ranches that I've been too had better hunting outside the fence. Of the 9 animals I took in South Africa, only 2 where inside the HF. One had escaped a HF place and I was offered the animal for half price before it went onto a neighbors land. In Namibia, the biggest kudu we found where outside the HF. Of the animals that I've taken inside the HF, none have any less appeal to me then those outside the fence. My Eland was on a 10,000 HF ranch, and that was one of he most memorable stalks that I've ever been on. Crawling over a cliff to get into position for the shot above him was just amazing!!!!!

If you have the opportunity to hunt a ranch that is HF, don't miss out just because some people you don't even know, don't want to do it.

I have nothing against hi fences, have hunted them before and will again.

Some places are zoo's some are not, they are not all created equal. Not that I look down on HF deer because I don't, but I surely do keep HF and LF deer in two separate catagories. It has been time consuming and difficult for us to reach 150 b&c on our 320 acre LF property. With a fence around it I have no doubt what so ever we would have surpassed it several times.

Anything fenced in is a pet or livestock.......NOT GAME.....and therefore not hunting.

That's your opinion mine and many differs.

Its because searching texas hunts are either hf or lf. Coming from the swamps n thick bush n florida they dont have hunting ranches. Thats why im asking. Thanks for the input yall

I bet you feed your whitetails with a feeder. Sounds like a pet to me.

If you are going after a particular buck it will be hunting. If he sticks you in a blind and says pick one. Thats shooting.

So Blackbuck on a low fence (since they don't jump a low fence) isn't hunting. Neither is pronghorn for that matter.

Stating something in a logic style doesn't make it logical.

Ain't it great listening to HF haters try to blow smoke up their own rears.

Didn't mean to open this can of worms lol. Just not a native to hunting texas

If you are serious then you answered your own question when you said planning to take a mountable buck. That level of confidence to me for the most part would come from Hf I think if you can't devote lots time Hf is best I think that Lf can be just as good but ratio of time spent hunting would be less for Hf. If this is planed hunt only for short time frame a good Hf would be great.

Thanks for input appreciate it

Pronghorn was the easiest hunt I've ever been on. 15,000 acre ranch and our group of 8 was done by noon on the first day. It was borderline not hunting and it was diy, over the counter on private land. I know different areas are more challenging. If you're antelope hunting in NE Wyoming, plan something else to do when you finish early.

Agreed...

I'm not a big fan of HF, that being said I definitely understand why some LOs high fence their land and frankly if I had 500 acres or more and those around me believed in "if it's brown it's down" or if they were simply bringing in so many hunters/taking more deer than their land can support I'd HF my place too.

Mods need to shut this down. Question was asked and answered, no need to keep the HF vs LF debate going any longer than the original question asked it to be...

Don't spoil our fun.

I don't really know much on the subject, but I have seen deer killed on both LF and HF properties, and it seems to me that the HF hunters are clearly superior to the LF hunters in skill, as they tend to bring in the biggest bucks which are usually more difficult to kill, right?

Correct. Kind of like the guys that drive 8+ hours to hunt on lf ranches in the golden triangle have more skill than the guys that hunt in the hill country. I've seen bucks from both areas and the guys that hunt the south must have more skill because their bucks are huge compared to the ones I take and I'm on high fence.

Just remember, "no prize is greater than the effort taken to achieve it."

"I had a bird dog names Gus. When Gus couldn't find pheasant, he worked up an enthusiasm for rails and meadowlarks. This whipped up zeal for unsatisfactory substitutes masked his failure to find the real thing. It assuaged his inner frustration. We conservationists are like that . . . to assuage our inner frustration we have found us a meadowlark . . . it smells like success. There is danger in the assuagement of honest frustration; it helps us forget we have not yet found a pheasant." - Aldo Leopold

Is the "pheasant" or deer taken behind the HF success or an unsatisfactory substitute masked for failure to find the real thing?

I think that is the question that you are asking....can this hunt be a "success" or will this just result in a participation trophy? Anyone can get a participation trophy, just look around. Are you hunting to impress others by getting her "first mounted deer" or satisfy your inner desire to succeed/achieve and feel good about your experience?

LF deer are better chicken fried. HF deer are better on the grill, bacon wrapped.

Its always about food......lol

My HF vs LF is hunt where you feel comfortable and have fun. To me, these small HF places know what they have as far as animals, and that leaves no surprises, and that is why I don't hunt in them. If somebody had 30,000 acres under one fence, that changes things a lot.

Well we almost made it another year!

Next will be another debate on which is best .308 or 30.06...

Lf deer meat definitely chicken fried with nice can of beer! Hf venison sauteed with nice red wine.

Well, which is better?

Beats me! I've been shooting both for over 40 years and I still don't know!

You know the 223 is better.

22 Hornet?

Low fence hunting makes you a true hunter. Make sure and feed lots of corn, and bring a mr heater in the blind with you to keep you warm while checking Facebook on your iPhone. Also helps to have two yetis in your truck. People who do these things, they're the real hunters. High fence hunting is for rich people who want to shoot their pets. Also, harambe was innocent and Cecil the lion was a hero. I hope I equally offended everyone here.

You forgot the portable satellite dish & battery powered TV!

Is hunting the Chaparral WMA, Mason Mountain WMA or Kerr WMA shooting pet deer? Just woundering because they are public draw hunts.

Of course! How else would they know what hunting is without a TV and iPhone. For that matter, they would have never been able to book the hunt without putting down a deposit through paypal. Good thing they have the Yeti sticker on their vehicle....you aren't legit unless you have your cooler's logo on your vehicle. HA, I used to think that it meant someone worked for Yeti, for instance a salesman or something. Boy was I wrong. People actually think this is cool to do. Kuddos for Yeti's marketing team. They know how to herd the sheep.

Just shows how stupid some of these comments are Erny.

Do LF deer have tags in their ear?

Does erecting a HF automatically make tags grow from deer's ears?

Does it automatically limit the deer to the confinement of the pen?

i took my pic away. But it was my low fence deer friend

Best laugh I have had since Christmas!

Still havnt found a place I wont shoot a deer...

There is no more skill needed in hunting a low fence over a high fence. Everyone hunts in a box blind with feeders. If you want to make it fair, lose all of the gear and spot and stalk.

I only have one yeti and it's in my jeep so I'm screwed.

I won't shoot one in the butt.

I live in New Mexico, so I am a real hunter and you all do it wrong. We hunt like men.....from our trucks on dirt roads til we see one with Luke Bryan blasting nonstop. No feeders, no fences, no blinds. I won't shoot a deer if I have to walk more than 50 yards from my truck though and it has to be flat enough to get back to the road relatively easily. Cover enough miles in my jacked up F350 and I find them sooner or later....it's super fair chase and it is real hunting. And if you don't do it like me, well then you are wrong and I am gonna make sure you know it.

you mean you can kill deer with .223

No it is unethical, anything less than a 45-70 should be outlawed. I am right, you are wrong.

We let New Mexicans on here? They might steal our hunting techniques and I'll have to sit in a 4x4 box next time I go elk hunting in New Mexico. Don't forget the remote for the deer feeder and the heater.

No desire to hunt HF

Spot on, however, this discussion and Indian Corn discussions make for good times!!!

I would rather road hunt at night, it is cheaper than a lease.

Worst debate I have read in a while. Glad I could contribute. I would hunt a high fence but I damn sure wouldn't pay for it. I have my standards.

What about almost every hunting operation in South Africa? They are mostly high fenced yet get millions of dollars in revenue from "hunters" on a safari...

He's saying he doesn't consider that hunting.

He is misinformed as to what hunting is, then.

As many have already said, the fence debate is everlasting.

My sig line has two kills: the buck on low fence and the ram on high fence. Both were just as challenging, enjoyable, and fun. "You do you" is basically how it works...hunt high or low, just get out there and HUNT

quite possibly my favorite comment in this website.

OK, I have read all of this dribble. So listen up. HF deer taste better than LF. HF Deer are better looking than LF. HF Deer are smarter than LF. HF Deer have better IQ's than LF. So to sum this up. Why would anyone waste their time and money trying to shoot a Deer that doesn't taste as good. Doesn't look as good. Is easier to hunt. And is not as smart. And besides that they would much rather be shot with a 223 than some cannon that LF people need to shoot to look good.

When all you're doing is waiting for something to show up and start eating, what damn difference does it make?

If a true hunting experience is what you want to give the wife, I would recommend some type of guided hunt out west in truly open and unrestricted country.

What's more impressive a 200+ inch HF deer or a 160+ inch LF deer?

The "deer" on the HF place may be more impressive, but its not impressive in any way, shape, or form for the hunter to shoot the deer in the pen, period. Just my opinion.

Everyone's definition of hunting is different. As is their intention for "hunting". Unless you're living off the grid and in a hand made cabin, few of us hunt to survive. It's a sport and a business to many of us. It's a little funny when people say "put some meet in the freezer", yea right next to the corn dogs, popsicles, and rib eyes we got from Walmart. I've done both, both cool in their own ways, for different reasons. Either way, I could care less what or why or where you "hunt". And I expect the same in return.

The impressive part about hunting is being able to out smart the deer. Sitting in a box blind waiting for a deer to come to the feeder=not impressed. Spot and stalk with a rifle= more impressed. Bow hunter=more impressed. Spot and stalk bow hunter=different level.

If you're just waiting for the deer to come to you, does it really matter where the deer are? You're most likely only hunting an area the size of 2 football fields.

A 200+ on a hf place with no genetics brought in is impressive. A 160+ on lf is impressive. It's all relative. Some lf ranches hit the 200 mark pretty regularly and a 160 is not impressive. If I had a 160+ on my hf ranch, I'd be posting a pic of it everywhere because my deer just don't get that big.

I haven't read all the pages yet but has anyone asked if hunting 100acres low fence is more sporting than 5k acres high fenced? Are the animals more tame on one place vs the other?

What about a 20k acre low fence place? Are those deer tame as tame as 20k acre high fenced deer?

Fish in a barrel, fish in the sea. What difference does it make.....a fish is a fish, right? I think that I'm getting it now!
This free range, fair chase thing is over rated. We have guns, feeders, and blinds anyway. Since we have such an unfair advantage, why not high fence them too. We can have total control and congratulate ourselves when we kill a deer we raised. Impressive!

High fenced or not. Deer get tame from no hunting pressure and constant positive human interaction like spreading corn from your truck. On 500 acres hf, when I have to cull 20+ deer in a season, the deer disappear. I've also been on low fence ranches when deer would walk into the road to see if we were spreading corn. It was our first year on the place and it had not been hunted other than the landowner for years. We had a mature 150 class buck that hung out on the road about 400 yards from our cabin. No one wanted to shoot him by the time the season started because he was so tame and they were looking for bigger. The landowner ended up shooting him. He was the 3rd biggest deer out of 6 trophy bucks taken.

If I drove through my place and spread corn everyday from my truck I probably could condition my deer but you can do the same thing everywhere.

re: sporting - lookup P&Y and B&C book qualifications.

I'm sensing sarcasm. It's more like fish in a lake or fish in the sea.

High fence is a management tool just like proteining, culling or letting the population mature. B&C does not let high fence into the record books, because it usually does not represent the quality of deer in the area. It's not because they don't consider it fair chase (I'm not talking about kill pens). They excluded them so they could have a better representation of management practices as a whole in the area. B&C was started for a management tool, not purely for bragging rights.

It's true deer inside a fence are usually better quality than the ones on the outside. Why because we have a better chance of bringing all of the other management tools together.

Dunno, hunted both and enjoyed both. The HF I hunted I picked a deer from tail cams and decided to only harvest that one deer. It took me 2 different trips in the season to find that buck but had chances on what seemed to be every other buck in the county before the last minute of several straight all day hunts in almost every stand location on two different multi day trips. The target buck this year on LF showed up like clockwork on opening weekend of bow season, also hunted 300 acres LF that you could decide the day and sit that you wanted to harvest your target buck......... sooooooooo?

Since you brought up the record books. Have you ever noticed that some of the best elk/mule deer trophy units have ski resorts in them. When I go skiing, I love seeing all of the huge elk and mule deer. Some lucky guy drew the tag to shoot one of those tame monsters. Is it considered fair chase because you waited 20 years for a tag?

Great point. I live to impress people. You should be like me, because my way is right. Everything you do should be directed at impressing people. Do this, then you are a real hunter.

Great point. Good thing he was in a high fence or you might have had to make a few more trips with no guarantee.

Mark: reading your posts:

good thing we have you to educate us on right and wrong

If you don't go after deer with with a sharp stick, wearing a loin cloth, you're a hypocrite and not a real hunter.

Why do you care so much how other people spend their free time?

I'm impressed with your ability to consistently make stupid points.

The height of the fence has nothing to do with how tame a deer is. It is how they are treated all 365 days of the year. If we spend a lot of time at our place all year long, the deer are not as wild acting as most places. If they see the pickup, they know we are corning the road and start lining up like cattle after we drive through to eat the corn. It's proves Pavlov's Theory.

One side of our place has no fence, it is a cotton field, the other 3 sides are 4 foot goat wire and 2 strands of barbwire. Low fence and no fence, it makes no difference as to how wild or tame the deer are.

Man regurgitating this topic over and over gets old - same ole stuff

Hunt how and where you want as long as it is within the game laws and makes you happy

Forum needs to add a new topic - "LF vs HF"

.270

When road hunting, I would prefer the 22 short, quiet enough it doesn't waken the area landowners.

HF's matter to people who believe that a basic, fundamental, undeniable tenet of fair chase hunting is that the animals being pursued are not confined within a fence. For those of us who share this viewpoint, most of the stuff brought up by HF proponents (feeders, tameness, hunting with sharp sticks, etc.) is simply irrelevant noise.

Sounds like: "don't confuse me with facts, my mind's made up"

You're saying the only thing that matters for fair chase is that the deer could leave and be shot by your neighbor? Do you know how ridiculous that sounds. What about a high fenced ranch leased by 10 different hunters. If there is 1 trophy buck on the ranch, only one hunter gets him. I don't see how that is any different.

I bet you are. With over 11,000 posts in 4 years, I can tell you must read them all. I'm impressed that you have such an exuberant amount of spare time to kill.

YES, fair chase means the deer can leave; it's not captive. Yes, it means you don't have 100% control.

Free range and fair chase are different. You are confusing them.

FAIR CHASE, as defined by the Boone and Crockett Club, is the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals. HUNTER ETHICS."

Fixed it. At this point, this and some of the other hot button topics serve only one purpose - to get people at each other's throats. Very counterproductive when we have so many other groups who would love nothing more than to see the pastime we love so much disappear. But, it sucks people in every time.

Is hiding in an elevated blind over a pile of corn that the deer have been trained to come to on a timer fair chase? Just want to clarify, you seem to be hunter supreme on here so I want to make sure I am doing whatever it you say I should do to be a real hunter. To me a timed feeder would be an improper advantage, but again, you tell me and I'll go with it.

Nothing compares to captivity. That defines unfair advantage. It is what it is any which way you slice it. A huge majority agrees with this.

and thats what has ruined it for me and many others..

Thanks yall ill take her to wat i can afford
Right now its hf 1200 acres. Thanks everyone

Not even a "huge majority" agree with you on this relatively tiny hunting forum.

Since you're talking absolutes. So NOTHING else matters, as long as there is not a HF, I can use any technique, take whatever advantage I want, use whatever tools/technology is available, and it's fair chase, and I'm a real hunter, in your not-so-humble opinion.

But if I'm in a 100,000 ac HF ranch with no feeders, covered with thick South Texas brush, and only one buck, and I'm hunting barefooted with a Bowie knife as my only weapon....

Haha. My 3 year old would say the same thing...."what if" blah blah blah, is it OK then??!!

I know some guys hate these hf lf threads but I like them. There's a place for both and I hunt both. I've never had a guy turn me down when I invited them to hunt on my high fence place. I'm sure no one on this forum would turn it down either.

I wouldn't turn it down but I bet there are a few who would just to prove a point

It is an entertaining way to pass some spare time.

Love how I can find a particular buck on the King Ranch and a big $$ guy is called to fly down to shoot it at 30yrds and then flies back home with his big Free Range trophy or a buddy of mine finds a big bull elk that he sees every day and calls another guy willing to pay for a "guaranteed" hunt and flys in to shoot it. My point is just because hunts are free range doesn't always mean it's a "hunt". I've hunted all over the World and some of my toughest hunts have been under high fence. I just love to hunt for mature animals and unfortunately in Texas the average age of a buck killed in low fence areas is not even 2yrs old. Just enjoy your hunt however you do it and make sure to take a kid hunting if you have the opportunity.

Poor excuse for a way to dodge answering the question.

3 year olds can be pretty perceptive. How would you answer him?

I think fair chase should include a warning shot first. Let them know you're after them.

Love how some of these so called "low-fence" guys are so quick to want to shoot an escaped deer as in the Deer hunting post. I guess we shouldn't catch Bass in man made lakes and should only fish natural Rivers.
I would answer the 3yr old in a way that would encourage him being in the outdoors and away from video games etc. Good luck and enjoy hunting the way that you want to and relax, you live in the USA.

I have no idea who you are marke. Do you consider yourself a good hunter? Where do you hunt? Is it your own property? If not do you lease? Do you even hunt? How old are you? Do you take your Meds.daily? Just a few simple questions from a person that owns a HF.

I would add what have you done to help the wildlife in your area? I bet the answer would be fill his feeder up in August and October.

I have some bass over 10 pounds in the tank behind my house. I don't consider them in the same trophy catagory as the 10lb.+ fish I've caught on Amistad and Fork. Nor would I hang one on my wall and brag about it. I feel the same way about deer shot on a high fence. I've guided on high fence but don't consider those trophys in the same catigory as free ranging animals.
I could care less what others do with their money. But I'm not impressed with the freaks of nature I see hanging in some of my customers offices bought and paid for by vendors.
It's not the same no matter how bad some want it to be.

I feel the same way about guided vs diy. The skill is getting the shot. If someone did all of the homework and put me in the spot it takes some of it away for me.

I wonder if anyone has ever, even once, changed their opinion regarding any subject addressed on this forum.

I feel the same way. I do t care what others do but it's just not my thing.

I think we changed marke's opinion.

nailed it - like libs and conservatives - debate all day but nobody is changing the other ones stance = becomes a waste of time after awhile don't you think?

Said this many times - thank God we live in a free country where we can choose

So the deer that will eat out of your hand but has no fences within miles would be a fair chase hunt? At the cabin, our grandkids have fed the deer Cheerios out of their hands. No high fences within 10 miles of the place.

B&C made a catch all statement with a lot of gray area. I think the key section is "that does not give the hunter an improper advantage." I think tame animals disqualify them.

So I can't use a rifle, now I have to use a bow because of an improper ETHIC advantage if you want to play that ethic card. Again, all is in the eye of the hunter and freedom of an American. Thank goodness Hilary wasn't voted in and try to take our property rights away where we can't hunt as we want to or at all.

Funny thing, I have 6 Boone and Crockett animals and all it took was money and quite a bit of it and not much of a hunt on any of them except the Mountain Lion. My favorite hunt of all was a 141 class 8pt on a my own ranch that took me all season to take and I had to take him out of a Live Oak tree eating natural browse. Could never get him to come into a bow blind but spotted him on a trail cam. 1,285 acres High Fence.

Nailed it. I just don't get excited about HF deer

I have both HF and LF property. I have a couple of feeders that throw out corn in the HF. I have one on the LF property. I could leave the computer now and go over there and shoot a minimum of 3 does and be back here within 30 minutes. I could go to the HF and I might be able to get one today. Now how is that easier? Deer on LF that are addicted to a free handout of feed are no longer free range. Cut off the feeder for a few weeks then brag about killing a free range deer. Don't hunt out of the truck or blind then brag about free range. But until then you are just trying to put yourself on a pedestal which you don't deserve.

Thats great, I hope you and your wife have a wonderful time and good luck to the Mrs

My Whatever floats your boat

My preference: My ex BIL has 1200 HF. He let me shoot a management buck around 135 class, I thoroughly enjoyed it
I hunt 80 acres and see a lot of deer almost every year, I get more excited when I see a nice buck there than on the BIL HF.

A long time ago on here I read a post where they were selling elk hunts on a 150 acres HF. Three bulls to choose from and you can either hunt from one of their blinds or spot and stalk. That's not for me, but if it gets someone else excited about it good for them

Why are we getting the terms "high fence" and "hunting" confused again? I respect people as human beings who harvest on hf. But as a hunter, i have 0 respect

I hope you're not disappointed, but I doubt that anyone cares.

Do you use a feeder to attract Deer?

I understand both sides. I guess I am too old and too old school. I 64 and growing up never liked high fence situations. I have never persecuted anyone for hunting high fence but I never have and never will hunt that situation. Just not for me, that's all.

Aggie: I fully understand and respect your position. What I don't understand, or respect, is those who are essentially saying:

it doesn't matters what the size of the enclosure is.

It doesn't matter what the other circumstances are.

It doesn't matter whether the game is baited at feeder's.

It doesn't matter what weapons or technology, or other advantages the hunter uses

It doesn't matter the difficulty or challenge of the hunt.

It doesn't matter how tame the game might be.

All that matters is the fence. if there is a fence, it's not fair chase , if there is not, it is "hunting".

By definition lake Grapevine public COE is technically HF due to lake one side and miles of house and metroplex on Three side. So basically anyone that hunts out there isn't a hunter? Even though it's some of the hardest hunting in the state

Pretty shallow opinion. But then again most elitist opinions are just that elitist-- I'm better then you opinions.

But then again that's why few deer get posted on this site compared to what use to get posted.. there is some elitist that will take pop shots about HF, large ranch, guided, big money lease etc... someone always looking to degrade a fellow hunter.

No body is happy for anyone anymore... sad state of affairs. But hold your head high Mr Hunter, you're a bad [censored]

Who cares what others think. Hunt how you want and what your conscious is good with. Don't worry about how others qualify your hunting. If it's a legal means of hunting, have fun.

This^^^ seems so simple

Yup

I agree with John on this one.
I may have no stomach for it but I'm all for capitalism and can't blame the high fence owners for earning some money.
I do think its ridiculous when these "hunters" get driven to a blind, sit for an hour, shoot a record buck, hang it on the wall and brag how they are a "Great Hunter"

Agree with this position 100%.

I have hunted on HF but just view it as different.

Everybody views it as different. Deer should be compared to deer off that ranch and nowhere else.

Comparing a hf to a lf does not make sense. Comparing a south Texas buck to a hill country buck does not make sense. Comparing a Texas buck to a Canadian buck does not make sense.

I've hunted low fence south Texas ranches where a 150 buck did not excite me and I've hunted hf hill country where a 140 made my heart skip a beat. It's all different and hunting is all about the experience.

I'm very confident John Wayne never said that.

STOP THE MADNESS!

Girl band, strawberry pajamas, one chord made into a solo, and, the '70's. This group has it all.

You Guys crack me up.

Very, very, few people are good hunters -- or ever have been. Old timers killed deer in the course of their farming or ranching activities. Early sport hunters used hounds and did drives or just sat in the woods. Of course you had guys like Roosevelt, but for them getting to the hunting area by train, then coach, then on horseback was most of the work. Celebrity hunters like O'Connor started the legend of the skilled hunter but when it actually comes down to it, he made hunting difficult by going after the biggest animals in remote locations. Any skill was provided by his guides (aside from shooting skill, of which he had plenty of), and the guides skill just consisted of knowing the animals' habits and location

To me real hunting skill consists of being able to track, or still hunt, or one man drives in canyons, etc.

What most people consider "real" hunting in Texas is what I would call earning a buck by hard work. Deciding where to put up blinds and feeders and cameras, creating food plots, becoming good shots, then targeting a particular buck and putting in time in the blind or tripod.

To me, none of that is skill.

As far as HF vs LF goes, since most of us hunt over feeders or food plots or crop fields and any deer that walks out of our shooting area is "gone", it seems a moot point as far as proving "skill" is concerned.

According to imdb, John Wayne's entire quote was "A man's got to have a code, a creed to live by, no matter his job." Nothing to do with hunting.

Yep, that other one is just a combination of his and others' quotes all thrown together. It always seems to show up in the HF/LF threads.

please make this thread die - has become silly

Just build your fence about 1/4 inch less than what is considered a high one and you are good to go.

If you don't like this thread then don't click on it. Not too difficult.

Ive hunted Schleicher County low fence im not sure if thats hill country or not. Shot a nice 10 point. Anyone know? I just want the wife have good time and a buddy from arizona ro finally get his first buck.

I can't believe yall are still arguing about this. Bye.

"Money Equals Opportunity Equals Big Racks" this fact has nothing to do with skill.

It is a part of the hill country kind of on the western edge. PM me and I will give you some suggestions based on your budget and what your wanting to spend, type of hunting etc...

I'm sure you had no idea what kind of thread you were opening when you asked this simple question. Unfortunately our society has turned into people coveting what others have and people looking for excuses for their failures in life to make themselves feel better.

Most of these ridiculous posts are from people who have failed hunting low fence and this is how they make themselves feel better about their inadequacy as a hunter.

But I want to thank you. I receive requests all the time from members who want to hunt on the ranch I hunt on which happens to be low fence. I have a waiting list. I make note of all those that disparage others for legally hunting in these threads and the photo section thread. I remove them from my list or never add them in the first place.

I don't believe this is accurate. The quote I'm aware of is

"A man's got to have a code, a creed to live by, no matter his job."

Where did the rest of that come from?

Shooting a deer with a rifle resting on the window of a blind, 80 yards from a pile of corn takes no skill no matter how high the fence around it is. Man people say some dumb things on here.

Ahhh. A "club" guy. This explains a lot.

Bet you were a frat boy too eh?

You need a "herd" to belong to for security. An approval of adhered to criteria followed by a preferred crowd to "qualify" your status.

You need others approval to be self satisfied.

Folks I have just solved the riddle. You're all welcome.

I like your idea Marc.

"I receive requests all the time from members who want to hunt on the ranch I hunt on which happens to be low fence. I have a waiting list. I make note of all those that disparage others for legally hunting in these threads and the photo section thread. I remove them from my list or never add them in the first place."

All shooting takes a certain skill; otherwise a 5 year old could do it. Saying anyone can shoot at 80 yards is really "dumb." This weekend I just witnessed a guy miss three times at 75 yards.

You must hunt with my neighbor. He misses deer all the time and always thinks it's the equipment.

That was the point I was trying to make earlier. Most hunting doesn't involve skill (aside from shooting skill) and never has. It can involve knowledge of deer habits, it mostly involves time spent in prep and hours spent in the stand.

Schleicher County is part of the Edwards Plateau, not the Hill Country. All Hill Country counties are also Edwards Plateau counties, but not the other way around.

Every hunting experience is different, for the first time in forever I missed an animal I was shooting at and I have been deer hunting for 46 years (except a piglet at 245 yards running around a feeder after its momma got shot). Normally I get excited about any animal I shoot but always controlled my emotions. This year for whatever reason I had Buck Fever bad Missed a broadside shot at a 175 yards, fortunately it stood there laughing at me and gave me a second chance oops.

Moral of the story, regardless of how much skill or experience you have stuff happens and thats why they call it hunting

I read this threads for entertainment. But I also learn a lot from them. Living in LA, we don't hunt under a fence in our leases as they are leased from timber companies. Being relegated to 1 or 2 stands and can't hunt anywhere on the lease you want because it would be to close to someone else. So, these days I am on a club because we love venison. I no longer call myself hunting for the sport of it, but for the meat. I don't call it hunting when you have feeders, trail cameras (especially when you use them to figure out which stand you are going to hunt and what time of the day), etc. I can't get excited about killing a nice deer knowing that the only "skill" I possessed to kill the buck is to be able to shoot straight.

I don't put others down for the way they hunt as long as it's legal. I do think that what gives HF clubs a bad name, is not the ones who have fenced their land to keep closer tabs on the deer or even to control the herd for larger deer. In my opinion the reason they have a bad reputation is the ones who buy deer from breeders who keep pushing the envelope to breed larger and larger deer. I don't find those deer appealing and wouldn't shoot one anywhere if I knew that where they came from as they look likes freaks to me. Also, a few years back I talked to a young man who graduated with my son from high school. His father's employer had taken this young man and his own son for a HF hunt in Illinois. The buck this kid was after was seen from his stand and he missed him. He and his "guide" (using that word in a very liberal way) jumped in their vehicle and began to run around to cut the deer off. They pushed the buck until they finally got a killing shot on him after he had gotten to the fence and had to turn back. I don't know which I was more disgusted at-the outfitter or the adults who took their kids on a hunt like or this kid who saw nothing wrong with it and thought he had killed a real trophy.

Again, I think these things are what have given HF's a bad rap. But I know that all HF land or leases are not the same and all are not run like the ones I just mentioned. Happy hunting to all and hopefully the OP's wife and friend will have a great hunt.

If you think shooting 80 yards requires skill the that's a whole different issue. And yes, a five year old could do it, witnessed that plenty of times. Aside from a prohibiting handicap.....anyone can shoot something from 80 yards with a scope and a rest. You can miss, everyone can. But for the most part it requires very very little skill.

You just did. But, I do admire you for jumping through hoops to hunt in your crazy arse state.

Haha! I haven't even looked into getting my name in any book; don't really see the point. I do have an archery B&C whitetail from last year and a slew of P&Y animals. You won't find me posting that stuff on here either. Regarding the B&C quote, I was just helping out folks tie together range and fair chase.
I ought to have a cup of coffee with some of you guys sometime. You got me all wrong.

Post some of your pics. I think it would add to the thread. Everybody likes to see a free range boonie taken with a bow.

I think that your post is thoughtful and one of the most rational on here -

[quote=HCHunter28]Post some of your pics. I think it would add to the thread. Everybody likes to see a free range boonie taken with a bow. [/quote

I am not the poster you asked for pics - but here you go.

First pic is a Texas,free range, Boone and Crockett LF book deer I took - 201 inches - not a package hunt - it is on a lease we worked our rears off to manage. I hunted hard and used a lot of strategy to finally get a shot at him.

Second pic is a 551 inch Red Stag I took in New Zealand that ranked number 3 in the world when taken - the ranch was over 20,000 acres and HF - hell of a hunt in some really tough terrain.

I am equally proud of each animal and I would assume most would be too. Believe me I have no regrets about shooting either one

Would have to disagree. He contradicts himself numerous times in his post.

200in LF whitetail is simply amazing. Y'all know what y'all are doing on yalls lease no doubt about it.

How big does a place have to be before the high fence makes any difference? In the end the world is basically a high fence.

On another note those are awesome deer HCHunter28.

don't know the answer to that question but o just got a pic of a triple main beam buck on a cam on Ft Hood and showed my buddy who is a guide in the area and he has a pic of the same deer about 4 miles away. I thought that was crazy far for a high deer density area with pretty thick woods in between the two cameras. At the end of the day a deer will go where ever he wants unless there is a barrier in the way that he can't get through. I'm in no way complaining about HF one way or another I say do what you want as a hunter or land owner but deer can and will travel a long ways if they want to.

That's only a 2500 acres and depending on terrain could be a lot less.

I get that but what if I'm in the middle of his range then that's 5K acres. I'm not arguing one way or another just thought it was interesting.

You really think his home range is 5k acres?

2500 is more of a max, via terrain it could be less.

There is always the exception but generally it's going to be smaller, assuming pressure and habitat is equal

I did same thing on my ranch with antelope and deer and it's low fence.

I don't know what his range is. Sorry I ever commented.

Nothing to be sorry about it's a discussion I'm sure there are deer with home ranges of 5k acres, but I personally think those are the acception not the rule. I've seen deer in the panhandle go 10 miles plus but they are generally traveling to food source

So the distance he was seen was the max he travelled? You don't think he went past either camera or took a "round-a-bout" way to get there?

Our deer don't stay on 10k acres, not one or two, but many of them. The "home range" is impossible to say, but that isn't what they were talking about here. It is how far a deer will travel and if the fence limits that.

In Kansas, we have deer on camera killed over 7 miles away..so the pressure and range condition is out of the equation.

well I have no idea what the average buck on Ft Hood's range is or what their furthest range is I was just making an interesting observation I recently seen. I'm not advocating for or against HF bc or ranges or anything else. I was just saying in this particular deers case that HF would have to be at least 4 miles wide not to interfere with that particular deer and the question was how large would a HF need to be to make a difference.

I say a max because a section mile by mile is 640 acres. Seen deer go 10 miles in the panhandle but they travel same river bottom that's only 300 yards wide.

So did Sappers deer travel 5 miles in a straight line? Or walk around each section before he got there?
I know where I'd be hunting if I was him. I'd be finding the travel route, I'm sure it's not random.

You got 10,000 but is it continually cover or broken up in Ag? In Mason I counted 46 deer on the oats I planted as food sources sink that number will grow. By late Jan that number will be 100+. Do all those deer live on the ranch? No moving to food source, and there are three draws they use to get to them.

There is a large creek that runs through the training area where I got this deer on cam but it is almost a mile from my cam to the creek. I've already been on google earth trying to see why he might be traveling through but nothing particular stood out. I will be out there scouting some more on the next few weeks.

Range conditions affect things the most. Then rut. HF is double edge sword some places will be stacked with deer others well below CC with prime range conditions. Prime range conditions are hard to hunt (lighter densities and deer not having to move much for food sources. Goes same for LF but not to the extreme since no matter what you do you will have dispersal

To me Hill country as much as I love the views I dislike hunting it because of the high densities...he who feeds the most wins typically...take the panhandle and stx or even Etx and they are less feed dependent

I will also say my buddy hasn't had this deer on camera since now season so I don't know if he went off and found a new home range or just moved off to the northern part of his original range. I will also say this isn't a mature buck.

Now this hunting^^^

Every creek has a flood plane. More time you spend out there better you will be at narrowing it down. I hope you get him next year.

My experience they tend to sink with age. Could of been that last hot doe or better food source

[quote=BOBO the Clown]To me Hill country as much as I love the views I dislike hunting it because of the high densities...he who feeds the most wins typically...take the panhandle and stx or even Etx and they are less feed dependent [quote=BOBO the clown]

I agree but Ft Hood is it's own beast. Many of the guided rifle areas aren't corned much at all except for the day of a hunt. Most the deer are shot while traveling or chasing does during the rut. I wouldn't compare it to anywhere else I've hunted in the hill country. I've hunted places where the feeder goes off and 10 min later there are 20'deer at the feeder Ft Hood is nothing like this most likely due to all the troops in the areas during the week training.

I image an excise my move deer around a little bit

Be cool to know how far they dissipate and how long it takes them to return to same area

I think most of them stay in the area but just go to the thickest spots they can find. Much of Ft Hood is very thick cover mostly small oaks, shrubs, and cedar tangled up in vines. I've tried to travel some dry creek beds and it's almost impossible it's so thick. I try to hunt the edges of these areas but they can be a royal pain to get to.

I like the hill country. I love to sit and watch a ton of deer eating and interacting. You hear vocalizations many hunters never get to. Learning to age deer when you have so many in proximity to each other gets easier. And in the end you can easily pick a mature or cull or management deer by having an opportunity to observe and choose. I still have to keep my scent signature low and be smart in hunting them. The mature doe seem to be the toughest to hunt actually. Well, bowhunt anyhow. I have to agree with Navasot in I will hunt deer most anywhere. I like killing them. Pigs too.

And as for the adamant, insulting and abusive anti HF guys on these threads, it's probably good we don't share a campfire because I can't stand bullies. And after a few we would probably be rolling around on the ground getting dirty and causing all kinds of laughter from our fellow hunters as we huff and puff and accomplish nothing.

But I do respect the fact that you have a point of view and defend it no matter how insulting and rude you are while doing it. After all if the only way to be right is to belittle and demean others than by all means do it.

Not sure where all the numerous times I contradicted myself are, but am willing to hear. If you have the same opinion the poster above you had about my post in that I called hunting with cameras, feeders, etc. hunting after believing I had just said it wasn't hunting. Is this the quote mostly in question? "I no longer call myself hunting for the sport of it, but for the meat. I don't call it hunting when you have feeders, trail cameras (especially when you use them to figure out which stand you are going to hunt and what time of the day), etc." If so, it would be grammatically correct (if I remember correctly) for the quote to mean "...hunting for the sport of it, but HUNTING for the meat." So, I thought I was making a distinction between hunting for the sport of it and hunting for meat. For instance, I killed 3 deer this year, a doe, a spike, and a 5 point. In each instance, I shot the 1st thing that came out. After the 3rd one, I stopped hunting because that is about what our family will eat for the year. Would it be cheaper to just buy beef? Yes, but I prefer venison to beef and my heart doctor is much more pleased about eating the deer meat. If I made any more contradictions please let me know. I very well could have, not making myself clear about something. I am good at that. Thanks for your comments. Eddie

Low fence, high fence........... both make good sausage!

I love how high fence hunters automatically assume all of us 'low fence' hunters just sit in blinds in front of a corn pile. I hunt public land! Just for the record. I sit in a climbing tree stand, in a place i can only get to by boat, where i haul a kayak, risk falling in the water with full hunting gear on (its happened), paddle to shore, haul myself 2 miles up a hill and sit all day with a bow in front of a game trail. That's hunting. I also hunt sam houston national forest in a climbing tree stand with no corn. I also like to go elk hunting in colorado on public land, no corn there! Just being in good shape and hiking my butt off. Bet all you fat hf hunters couldn't hang with me. Infact i guarantee it.

I love how the anti HF guys assume...they are the only ones hunting public lol.

Last three years public-NM, CO, ID, KS, Okla and TX.

I was 8.5 miles deep this year in Idaho, sure you want to place that bet?

I would have no interest in hanging with someone with your attitude.

Ive covered about 45 miles on foot in a couple days hunting public land and have no issue with HF.

Now all hf hunters are fat.

That's what I have been saying for years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Lazy suckers

This debate has never been settled and never will, but at least we all decided the .223 is not an adequate deer cartridge.


Ready, set, go.................

I am prepared to compromise on this issue. I have no problem with bird hunting behind a HF.

Those native or released birds?

Lol I prefer native but will not judge on released - as long as they can fly.

HF and pen released birds is only approved of by Beaver.

Say what!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm confused, now we're discussing beaver behind high fence?

Be careful with HF beaver... do not touch.

You have made me think and thus amend my statement. I will not hunt ostriches, emus, or penguins behind a HF. I have my standards.

Well at least the thread is amusing now

meat is meat.

And I commend you, I did that myself before I got too old. It's high-effort and low reward. Still, it doesn't take much skill, just knowledge of how deer behave.

Isn't knowledge of game behavior a pretty important hunting skill? Maybe the most important?

"Ask not for whom the bell tolls..."

We are talking about Beaver and Snipe..............

Y'all been hella click-baited

can we get that comment in plain English so we can understand?

X2

X3; these young ones new language needs to come with older folks interpreter.

The quote is from a book by John Wayne’s wife Pilar Wayne
John Wayne: My Life With the Duke by Pilar Wayne
The quote next the picture is not the exact quote from the John Wayne book.

The real quote reads as follows:

John Wayne Quote:
“A man's got to have a code, a creed to live by, no matter his job.
There is a difference in hunting wild game and shooting wild game.
A hunter will only kill an animal that is allowed to roam free.
A shooter will kill an animal that has been pen raised and not allowed to roam free.
I have no stomach for the later, no matter how large the pen is.”

You just made an a$$ of yourself assuming all HF hunters are fat and out of shape. Also assuming you're the only one that still hunts this way. Congratulations.

It sounds to me like he's hunting on an island.

Again I'd like to see some picks from your courageous trek into the wilderness. it sounds like you work hard for your deer, but are you productive or just inefficient.

Hunting public land doesn't take any more skill, you just have to figure out where the crowds will be and try to get away from them. Find a good spot and wait.

This is an excellent example of somebody that hunts to prove something. Not sure what, but you're missing out on the point of it. To have fun!!!

What makes you think that just because somebody enjoys a HF hunt that they do not also hunt other places? As a driver for Airborne Express making less then $20 an hour before moving to TX 15 years ago, I hunted Alaska three times, New Zealand, Namibia and most of the western states for elk and mule deer. I might not be in as good of shape as you are, nor would I want to compare to you in your hiking ability, but that really isn't very important to me. I doubt it is for most everyone else.

What I really don't understand is why it's so important for some people to feel that what they do, how they hunt, where they hunt, makes them better then somebody else?

Every meat hunter that I've ever met, changes the day they shoot their first trophy. I also think that if a person who has never hunted behind a HF has a good experience on a HF ranch, he will change his opinion of it.

He's actually inspired me. I'm going to swim across my tank and run 5 miles before getting in my tree stand next time. That will make it a real hunt.

John Wayne doesn't approve of HF hunting.


Gospel.............

John Wayne's estate was high fenced...I think he approved.

Free range and fair chase are different. You are confusing them. [/quote]

FAIR CHASE, as defined by the Boone and Crockett Club, is the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals. HUNTER ETHICS."
[/quote]

Ahhh. A "club" guy. This explains a lot.

Bet you were a frat boy too eh?

You need a "herd" to belong to for security. An approval of adhered to criteria followed by a preferred crowd to "qualify" your status.

You need others approval to be self satisfied.

Folks I have just solved the riddle. You're all welcome. [/quote]

Haha! I haven't even looked into getting my name in any book; don't really see the point. I do have an archery B&C whitetail from last year and a slew of P&Y animals. You won't find me posting that stuff on here either. Regarding the B&C quote, I was just helping out folks tie together range and fair chase.
I ought to have a cup of coffee with some of you guys sometime. You got me all wrong. [/quote]

Nah. I didn't get you wrong at all. You let a club define what is fair chase for you. You need the security of herd approval to feel justified. Then you bash people who are independent enough to define their own fair chase, and could care less what your "herd" does.

Try not letting what independent folks do wad your panties too much. Freed sound advice.

No pic, no happen.

Every hunting forum has one - the guy that says he does 400 push ups a day, could out hunt a Navy Seal, yada, yada, yada.

Silly little man....carry on and sell your livestock. It still isn't hunting! Hahaha

Great discussion. I have deer walk right across an 8K acre tract; visits both neighboring properties on opposite ends.
If only we had a HF, we could keep them from leaving AND it would probably make them harder to hunt according to some other posts I've read.....very interesting. Perhaps a few cross sections would make it even better.

There's a reason HF hunts are 100% successful. We all know what it is.

But the aren't all 100% success.

Shhhhh.....don't tell anyone. That is bad for business!

I know there have been radio collar studies done on deer home range. Anyone have access to that info?

Some of our bucks keep a very small home range, they are there like clock work 24/7-365. We have some that disappear during the rut and come back for the spring/summer and some that come for the rut and leave again.

sooooo what if someone was hunting an island... that's bout the same right.... is that like a HF

I often experience the exact same thing. They just rotate on and off the ranch. I’ll admit, most of them do stick within a 2-3 section radius for most of their life but they absolutely stray every now and then for a short amount of time (of course the rut mixes it all up). Right when you think you have deer on the interior patterned (safe on our property) and know/recognize all the bucks, they disappear for a few months (sometimes forever) and new deer move in. It does keep it interesting and I wouldn't have it any other way. You can’t always get the big buck you have scouted all Summer (he isn't confined to our property), but that is hunting and keeps me coming back for more to feed my obsession.

deer can swim duh lol

I'm 100% successful on low fence to if I so chose. Ironically I've hunted a couple HF ranches and never saw a mature deer, weather can play hell on you. How many acres are you truly hunting at any given time?

What's the difference between large ranch and small ranch? The ability to hunt more road to and from stand?
Even on a large track you are still limited in what you can walk and rattle do to fellow hunters.

Depends on how big the island is whether its considered HF or Free Range

What I have learned from the HF threads:

You gotta have HFs to protect "your" deer because the neighbors shoot everything.
But it's all the same because the fences don't work anyway.

It's all the same because hunting is hard anyway.
It's all the same because hunting is easy anyway.

Gotta have HF to keep "your" deer from traveling onto bad neighbor's land.
But it's all the same because deer don't travel much anyway.

Those with fair chase standards are jealous low-rent rednecks because they can't afford to hunt HF.
Those with fair chase standards are elitists who look down their nose at others.

Generalizations aren't fair to use for those who don't like HF.
But generalizations using "out there" examples like islands (as if deer can't swim), tame suburban deer, and the King Ranch are fine if you support HF.

in my mind, a HF place is the same as a large LF place. eventually you get so big the deer can't physically leave the place (or won't) so it is essentially the same. The biggest difference comes in smaller places, sub 500 acres. I could hunt a sub 500 acre LF place and see the same deer or different deer every time, due to deer travel patterns, but a HF place the deer will be confined and thus same deer (but doesn't mean you will see them every time).

As Bobo said, ther eis only so much ground one person can cover, and if hunting multiple people there becomes a point where you will hinder other people too..how much acreage is determined largely by the type of terrain being hunted, but there does come a point where there will be diminishing returns.

That would be the abridged version.

what have i started lol. Sorry dont live in texas and didnt know this was a big deal to people

I have a bull eland in a 500 acre pasture. Probably weighs 1400 pounds. So he should be easy to see. You two who think my hunts are "100%%" successful come on down. I'll give you 2 days to hunt him. You kill him he's free. You don't kill him you pay me 4 grand for the tresspass fee.

Get your bad selves down here and get your free eland bull! Lmao!!!! Watch the excuses....

Yep, those high-fenced deer are easy to hunt. That's why a 12 year old just spent a week with me on 1,800 high-fenced acres chasing one specific cull buck. And never laid eyes on him. That's why I just spent 11 straight days looking for one of five mature, trophy deer. Never laid eyes on any of them. Maybe it's because after 45 years of chasing these things, I'm still not a very good hunter

Meanwhile, we killed every deer we were after on our 900 ac. low-fenced pasture which borders 54,000 acres of low fence.

I know that will never change anyone's mind, but this isn't the first time it has happened to me. And it won't be the last. Now we only carry a deer to 26 acres, so perhaps the high-fenced places y'all are referring to are more released deer operations, or those with a deer to three acres. I've hunted some of those, too. Those are completely different than a true high-fenced ranch with pasture born deer.

I'm in under those specifications

its human nature.... someones always gota have a problem... its just easier to express it this day and age

Foreigners...

Man, something in me wants to see Bobo with a bull eland on the ground....

It's only open to the two who are convinced HF hunts are 100%. You don't qualify as that ignorant.

Please someone go kill his livestock, I mean Eland.

Says the guy who shoots farm raised quail in a HF pasture... so long as they can fly.

So if the deer can run are they ok?

Aggie logic?

Yes please.

We've had one hunter for 4 days specifically hunting him. I've had a discounted price on him for 6 months and all the hunters I've had said they'd shoot him if they saw him. We even tried to kill him from a chopper. We've chopper netted all the other eland and killed one from the air. This one learned to hide good when he hears any motors especially choppers .

He's been seen by my ranch hand and one other person. And I see his tracks so I know he's still there. But the bet would put money my pocket or I wouldn't have made it.

HF or LF, it's 303 days until deer season is here again.

That's a very generous offer, rancher. $4,000 for an animal he'd otherwise have to go to Africa to hunt. Some of the finest meat I've ever eaten and lots of it! Heck, the plane fare alone is twice that much. If I was billy-bad-arse in shape island hunter, I'd be on this like white on rice. But I'm just a lazy, fat HF hunter who kills every deer I'm after, every time, from my recliner

They all taste the same.

"That ignorant"

I'll hunt water for 48hrs straight

NOOOO!!!!!

It's FREEEE to billy bad arse!!! If he kills it.

Give me 5 days like one of my mule deer hunts.

I believe Nog is a long horn, I'm just trying to understand his logic.

I can't understand your reply. It makes no sense to me. Sorry. The bird posts were sarcasm because birds can fly, which kinda makes a high fence irrelevant. Anyway, I'm not a quail hunter.

Ok wait who said all HF hunts have 100% success rate?

Someone who has not a clue.

They really mustn't!

I would imagine any fence is a high fence to you..........

You right, my 3'0" butt can't handle a fence at all.

So its ok to call shooting farm raised (domestic) animals "fair chase hunting" so long as thy are not kept in a fence they cant get out of?

I never said that or anything like it. The bird analogy was sarcasm - birds aren't affect by fences.

So you never shot released birds?

No. But I don't have strong feelings about it much one way or the other. Just doesn't relate to a HF discussion.

Seems to relate to fair chase hunting to me which is the gripe with anti HF'ers.

Lol if you use a feeder then you can't preach about fair chase..

"FAIR CHASE, as defined by the Boone and Crockett Club, is the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals." Using food as a means to influence animals into shooting range seems like an "improper advantage;" only fair way to hunt is naked with a spear!

Actually, the ONLY fair chase is tooth fang and claw. A spear isn't fair! Your prey doesn't have a spear!!!

It takes an advanced degree of ignunt to use the term "fair chase" against HF when ALL hunters take unfair advantage over the animals.

iirc there is only one hunter on this forum who actually hunts fair chase. He is NP's hero.

People don't seem to understand that the human being is the most inadequately equipped animal on the face of this earth. We have only our brains to sustain us in a literal dog-eat-dog world.

An 8- or 10-ft fence only guarantees that animals don't leave. You still have to get after them and put a bullet/arrow in them (or bite it in the neck with, for fair chase purposes).

As a US Marine once said (paraphrased), "You shoot an AK at us, we shoot an Abrams at you. You shoot an RPG at us, we drop a 500-hundred pounder on you." Take the edge you have as an intellectually superior being and utilize it instead of debating who has the higher moral/ethical/BS ground. There is not much morality in the act of killing, no matter what it is being killed. Get over the fact that there are fences involved.

Have often thought about that. Without our brains and the tools we make and use we couldn't even inhabit the area we live today. It is amazing that a tiny bird, spider, mouse etc. can subsist on its own with nothing. Left in the middle of south texas naked without the knowledge to make shoes, clothes, shelter etc. humans would die in quick order.

Some would, others would not. In every animal is the will to live or the willingness to die. In first world mationas we have bred out the will to live for some, mainly due to convenience and technology. For some, the will to die would simply let them wither away and quit before trying anything. For some, the will to live still exists and there would be a fight, probably a long fight to survive. not saying it would go well for every human willing to survive, but there would be some in that group who would survive.

Now you take a third world national or even most second world nationals and put them in the same category, and they would probably thrive...

You have to remember humans survived (according to science) for many thousands of years by doing exactly what we are talking about, being a predator. So while on its face the statement highlighted above may ring true to some, the fact is the statement is inherently false because if it were true, humans would have never survived the initial years and we wouldn't exist today...

[quote=chital_shikari][quote=therancher][quote=chital_shikari]

People don't seem to understand that the human being is the most inadequately equipped animal on the face of this earth. We have only our brains to sustain us in a literal dog-eat-dog world.

Disagree, man has always been more than adequate as a whole!

Humans have the ability to walk, crawl, run, climb, swim excetra, the only thing we can not do naturally is fly! Man is fairly dexterous with his arms, legs and extremities, evenly proportioned from head to toe which adds to the versatility. Though we may not be superior at any one given attribute, we certainly compensate with our overall diversified capabilities.
Even as a cave man we did not become the apex animal on the planet by being inadequate, otherwise we would still be hiding in the caves

We made it to the top of the food chain bc we don't taste good. If we taste good people would be eaten by sharks daily not bitten but eaten same with all the big cats and canines.

Really

Taste has very little to do with survival, predators have their preference based off various considerations main one being ability to catch an edible prey. Sure a Great white would prefer a nice fatty seal, if he is hungry he will eat a human. Same with lions a nice big Zebra would be a preference, if hungry and available a human will do nicely. Many documented cases of Lions, tigers and Leopards eating humans, plenty of cases of them coming into villages specifically targeting humans and dragging them away to be eaten. There are cases of sharks and some alligators eating humans, not their preference but food is food!

I hear humans taste like Chicken anyways so why would it matter


Its all about opportunity, hunger and instincts not taste when it comes to natures predators and survival

My comment was complete sarcasm

Plenty of that in this thread (Sarcasm). I enjoy the legitimate debates, humor, good BS and the wacky mind sets

Last disc.I will participate in on this subject

Wanna bet?