hunting land continues to rise!?!

this has been a crazy 5 years or so. I have a little experience, but wanted to compare my notes with others.

2012 bought decent hunting ground in SE Kansas for $1175, sold 12 months later for $1675, last year after improvements new owner selling for $2700.

2010 or so southern Oklahoma seemed the area land about $900-1,000, we bought year ago $2,100, and now our area nothing under $3,000. Talking to our agent if not too far from DFW (we're 1:05 drive) and 35 (we're 10 miles) the prices have continued to skyrocket. 500 acres to south of us is under contract for $3,500.

Man, wish I would have bought that less than $1,000 stuff all up 5+ years ago.

I think farm ranch land has pressure not to go too high as they need to make a profit, but hunting land seems to be upwardly mobile as baby boomers and etc get that little place of their own out of the city.

May be against the grain, but I think the outdoor channels and hunting industry has had a lot to do with land demand and prices have followed.

I think you're both right. Population is skyrocketing and a relatively low barrier to entry for recreational property is also increasing demand and bolstering rural land prices. If OK would have a deer season that mirrored that of Texas, it would be a windfall for Oklahoma counties within a 2.5 hour drive radius of FW/D.

Bought our small place (88 acres) 10 years ago and paid $2650 per acre ( thought that was high) and it's all over at $5000 up out here for acreage. Southwest of La Grange Tx. Crazy. Ours has a Creek on back 1800 foot run and that adds to the price. Our's is up for sale as we speak. Republic Ranches/Buckner Creek Ranch. In another 10 years sky is the limit. Don't know how people afford things.

I heard they discontinued land and no longer make it. Just a rumor, but that might have something to do with it.

I think the value/cost of N. Texas land is driving people to buy in Oklahoma. Good news for me when I go to sell my place but will have to leave the area completely

yep, and so many larger ranches have been cut down and sold off for stupid high $/acre. My dad kicked himself in the butt for years for passing on buying 750 acres laced with artisan springs just SE of Burnet in the late '60s/early '70s for $32/acre. Can't touch anything under $5k in that area now, likely more for smaller tracts.

Its not getting any cheaper either... ever

Land is almost always "high" at the time you want to buy it, LOL, when you look back on it years later.

Actually it did drop from '08-'11. But long term you are right.

It may drop again in Texas as oil prices drop.

The wife and I made a bet that that would happen back in '96. Decided our investment strategy would be to own as much land as possible when the boomers decided to invest their nest egg in land.

It's served us pretty well.

Talked to the Jack Tax Assesor's office last year and they told me the smaller places 5-15 ac are really driving the price up. People are breaking up larger tracts into the little ones and were getting 4-4500.00 an acre. Only reason I called them was because my taxes jumped a good bit and I thought it was a mistake...it wasn't.

gonna keep doubling every 10 years - ALL land (faster within couple hours of any major city or I35) - till they start selling it per-square-foot like in Manhattan ! right now a bargain if you can buy for less than 10K per acre (within couple hours) on smaller tracts. Wait till it's 25K or 50K per acre !!!

Friend looking around Tioga/Aubrey said its $20k per acre.....right down road from me I know they were asking $15k per acre, 15 acres total and sold in 2 parcels of 5 and 10 acres each.....flat ground with zero trees or improvements

and in Grayson county neither one will qualify for ag exempt, too small when house added to the 10

$2700 per acre would be a steal down here in my county. Even now after the oil boom has so greatly declined.

I think we all got stories like this. Was given first option to buy a lease I had on the Pease River back in '99. Buddy and I floated a bid of $550 per for 1300 acres which was all the land bank said it would appraise for. Rancher decided to entertain a couple more bids and a couple dentists bid $650. He said if we would match it it was ours... we declined thinking they were paying crazy money. The ranch is listed right now for $2100 an acre and if I had the money I'd buy it in a heart beat. Great hunting ranch with white tale, mulies and turkey galore... and not a bad cattle operation.

http://www.landsoftexas.com/property/8137-HWY-83-Paducah-Texas-79248/902600

Yep I have an almost identical one in east TX. Sold for $600/acre in 1999. 1000 acres. Would probably sell for 3K/acre now (if the buyers hadn't clear cut it and turned the most beautiful hardwood bottom you ever saw into trash land).

hunting in texas is big business....

i have also heard that recreational land is increasing in value faster than ag land

I may have my place on the market in 2017 when Toyota moves 4,000 people to Plano

wait till they show up with wads of cash from selling their places there and Toyota is maintaining them at the California wages....

do those liberals hunt?

I've got a 30 acre horse farm so I don't care if they hunt but just raise the land costs, then I'll sell out and move a long way away

A lot of them do

they can't wait to get to Texas to buy more black guns and usually the first game
on their minds : Hogs

Didn't have the money when younger, know can't afford cause to old.

17 years at around a 30% return on the money. Course thats inflated currency thats is constantly devaluted. I'd keep the land!

Looked at land for the last 10 years in west Texas. . Started with just a dream and finally started making enough money to convince the wife to "invest" in 2013. Prices have increased between 80-120% depending on improvements etc. Bought my first place for $825/acre, raw land with a well. Got on the county tax appraisal website and found out who owned the land behind us. Has a year round creek going thru the middle of it, fences in fair shape with a livable house but needs dozer work. Approached them to see if they would sell. Their price was $1250/acre, non-negotionable. Waited about a year and decided to pull the trigger at $1250/acre based on the average cost per acre on both places at just over $1030/acre. Have since leased for grazing that pays 2/3 of the payment. I found 3 live springs (run year round) once the Dozer work was complete. I knew they were there because the high side of the creek slowly ran. Low side had a higher flow. Main reason I waited a year do I could check the creek flow during the summer heat and irrigation season. It's the only live water source in the area other than the brazos.

Land down the creek from us went up for sale while I was purchasing the creek land. Only listed for about a month and sold for $1567/acre. Only had a old coral and a well. No houses or livable structures. The way I see it, land is better than the stock market. And if I liquidate, I can at least break even for a quick sale.

Goona be hard to pass up a sale when the prices get over 100% return on the investment. I expect within 5 years, it will appreciate to that 100% return and should be at 150% within 10yrs.

Rob,

I paid $700/acre for my original 200 acre ranch in 2012 and was offered $450K for it a couple months ago. When I told him the improvements I made, he upped the offer to $500k. I did not sell.

There was a large article in the Fort Worth Star Telegram today by an investment person who stated that "right now" is the best time to buy a ranch because the prices have fallen to 2008 levels. The reason he states is because of the price of oil. Now that it is below $30 a barrel, according to him, many of the ranches will have to be sold off because they were bought when oil was at $100. So, if you still got some of that oil money hidden away, "i did not get any myself," now would be the time to go find yourself a ranch.
I'm wondering if oil money has anything to do with the price per acre of small hunting properties of under 100 acres, or if it has no affect on those.

I read it as more that he was prognosticating they might fall to 2008 levels - pretty sure the 2015 A&M studies cited in the article showed the prices still on a healthy upward curve, but the article notes land prices traditionally lag 2-3 years behind O&G declines.

I just saw you cited FW paper - article I read on same subject was the Dallas Morning News.

I thought is was an interesting article but lacked insight on whom actually buys land. In other words. A small segment was bought with oil money. Land I see for sale for the most part is flip land.

yep, it is crazy, good investment for us, but this place I'm never selling.

Here's the article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/19/busine...ml?ref=business

Investment fund betting on low oil will cause price on LARGE ($10-25 million) ranches to go down. He may be right, but they haven't gone down yet (he's waiting on that 1-3 years) and not sure how that applies to small tract recreational land close to metro areas. my bet I don't expect that type of land to keep going up at recent rates, but it won't crash back to the 2008 levels either. So in my area...

2008: $800

2012: $1,200

2013-14: $2,100

2016: $3,500

So I think possible a correction could take us back to $2,000 levels, but I don't think we'll ever see close to $1,000 again. I also don't think next 3 years we'll see 300% appreciation like we did last 3 years, that would put land above $10k. With rates rising I think you'll see most land like this hover $2,000-4,000.

I just sold some land for 5 times what I paid for it 4 years ago. Well technically I did a land swap but none the less I don't foresee prices taking a huge hit,

In this part of Texas, oil money was directly or indirectly responsible for the majority of ranch sales.

That said, the guy must have been prognosticating (because boots on the ground know that prices are currently firm), and as of now, O&G prices won't drag ranch value to 2008 levels. It was a total economic recession that was responsible for the 2008 drop, not O&G prices.

Yelp but most of the land bought with oil money was expansion(cash). Or small properties.

North of I-10 its majority baby boomers retirement places.

A lot of the ranchers that had places in the sweet spot of EF bought places just north of the sweet spot. Produced quite a bump in brush country ranch values both large and medium.

I just read an article on MSN in regards to land prices and the economy and some investor along with T Boone Pickens is predicting land prices to decrease by 25% in the next couple of years with the decline of fossil fuels, rising interest rates, and overall economy. These guys are loaded and of course buy big during periods of recessions and are planning on buying up tens of thousands of acres, especially in Texas where they predict land prices will be affected the most over the next couple of years.

There will always be up and down markets in all sectors of investing including real estate in Texas.

Those that are well capitalized and willing to take risk will be rewarded over the long term. Simple, but not easy.

Supply & Demand

The farm and ranch land north of prosper and to the east has stabilized and going down slightly. Any dip of 25% will have buyers coming out with cash in hand and will drive the price back up. Recreational land that has good wildlife is going up daily.

You are totally correct. A "market" is named that because prices are variable. Stock MARKET, real estate MARKET, grocery MARKET and on and on. There is an old saying that remains true forever and many people have gotten wealthy if they do it - BUY when there is BLOOD IN THE STREETS. Anybody can buy when the market is is hot and smoking. It takes kohunas to buy when things are at rock bottom. But that is where the money is made. There is a reason you have heard the saying "cash is king" - holding cash and jumping in when all looks horrible is the trick. Very few have the discipline to do it.

Rex will wait for that rebound all day long if it even happens. He has held it for this long so what is another few years.

My understanding was that the article was anticipating a drop per acre for the larger parcels of land, multi-thousand acre ranches vs. smaller acreage ones. The gist was that the larger ranches are largely run based on oil revenue returns. I think there may be some validity to this but probably not to the tune of 25-50% per acreage price reductions.

Around this area I have never seen the prices go down. I have seen them stabilize for a time but never be reduced. Some ranches were sold off in say 10 acre parcels and were advertised as gated communities with a lot of restrictions. These tracks sold for way more than any of the land around them and many who bought into this and tried to roll them lost.

In 20 or 30 years, kids today will be saying, "I wish I'd had money to buy some land back when it was $3000 an acre!" I know I'm saying that now about land in Arkansas I could've bought for $150-200 per acre when I was 20 years old.

Seems people are not really paying for so called hunting land. They are paying for an investment looking for a quick return if they are selling it a few years later. That is not enough time to do any wildlife management. I have a hard time calling the small acreages such as 50 acres true hunting land if you are wanting big deer. There are diamonds out there though. There is really not much for sale over 500 acres right now. Lands of Texas is only showing several in the counties I hunt. And some of those have been listed for 4 years now. I know guys have been doing land swaps or selling to neighbors so those are never disclosed.

I notice asking prices in my area for 200+ acre rural tracts start at about $3000/acre. It goes up from there depending on the tract (pasture, water, eye appeal, etc.) That sounds about right as I know a cutover tract across the road from my place sold for somewhere in the $2500/acre range. It had nothing to commend it other than hunting/recreation. Nothing.

That would have been unthinkable 10 years ago. Lots of market influence from the urban folks buying land that just wasn't much of a factor back then in my area - land was mostly traded locally.

Money tied up in land makes perfect sense. Key word is INTRINSIC value.

I have 110 acres for sale for 2500 within 2 hours of the metroplex in Archer City. PM if you are interested!

I too have some land for sale within 2 hours of Fort Worth. 77 acres near Eastland. Check link below and PM me with any questions.
http://www.landsofamerica.com/property/5719-Hwy-2526-Carbon-Texas-76435/2916453

Yes you do, does it include mineral rights?

Yes, all that I own and I believe I own 50% of the minerals.

I have a friend that is an old time ranching property REA. It is his observation that rural property investment goes up when the stock market goes down. And vice versa. But, if the oil prices do cause a recession, it will take a lot of potential buyers out of the picture.

Oil has always boom or bust. Sometimes they drive Mercedes and sometimes they bum rides.

I've bought and later sold several properties over the years and have never lost $. But, I've had to hold some of it longer than I wanted to. I bought my Montague County 133 acres about 30 years ago for $375 per acre. It's debt free. With water well, trailer house, ponds/fish and other improvements I could probably get about $450,000 for it. It's been a neat way of life on weekends.

I would advise any younger person to do it.

"I would advise any younger person to do it."

Dave, I could not agree more about saying buy land if you can, But I don't want you to leave out us old folks. I wanted to buy land my whole life, but life got in the way with family, raising three daughters and paying on my home mortgage. After years of saving at the age of 63 I was able to buy a small place. It was only 54 acres but it was mine. I could not have been prouder if it had been 100,000 acres. There is nothing like planting a food plot on your own place and seeing it come up. I know that they are not my deer, but they are on my place, so it sort of feels like they are mine. This has been a long story to say that too many are just looking at the monetary return on land and not the way one feels when you close that gate behind you and step onto your own place.
So my advice to to forget driving that brand new truck and buy land, forget about buying that 5 bedroom house, buy a three bedroom and take the extra money and buy land......your soul will thank you many times if you do.

That's a great post Mr. T.

Words of wisdom there!
I feel you can't truly experience (and appreciate) full FREEDOM till you have your own piece of dirt big enough to do anything you want on it without being harassed, including bringing forth all kinds of life (both plant and animal) for sustenance, be responsible for defending it, and best of all, share with others (even outside your own family)!

I have enjoyed mine more than I can put into words. It becomes a part of you for sure.

Absolutely. Ours has been such a blessing to our family.

I am 32 and buying my first piece of land. It is only 15 acres but it will be mine (on March 1st). I would love to be able to buy a piece of land like Mr. T has for sale but at this time it just wouldn't work out. I hope to one day be able to put my house on this 15 acres and then buy a larger parcel for my weekend getaways....I guess we gotta start out somewhere.

And if you buy it for an investment get something to lower the tax rate. Either Ag. or Wildlife. Otherwise your profits will be eat up with the taxes you have paid out on it while you have kept it.

Exactly, and research it fully BEFORE you buy - many counties are 'clamping down' more and more every year on qualifications for an exemption, and x# of years BEFORE exemption kicks in (if it's allowed to lapse) from prev. owner, etc.

wow, just woke up from me nap... dosed off while reading... Had a day-mare were ya'lls was gathered at me funneral & the speaker said: the only land he'll ever own, tis this here dirt we use ta bury him with... tis not ya'lls fault, tis bad with #ers on the power 8 i didn't have any of the #ers, only bought one ticket, so was only out 2 bucks... land tis a good investment... Cool thread...
Edit: i culled that buckthat survived the season that i posted in a thread in the photo forum, i don't have a lot of doe... Now that thar is funny... As pappy says: i got cheap posts ...

20 years ago I inherited one acre with an old house on it that is 90 miles from Houston. It is surrounded by very, very large tracts of government and private property. Last year the only privately-owned neighbor property came up for sale. It was either buy it or take the chance that someone else would buy it and put something next door that I didn't like. I negotiated for 6 months but the lowest I could get them was $4800/acre. So me and the oldest boy pitched in and talked them into splitting off 27 acres for us. Not huge but like I said, it backs up to a billion acres of government land that won't be sold any generation soon. The neat thing is this was part of the property that my ancestors got in 1839 during the Republic of Texas. So I'll be able to pass this along to the next generations.

Don't look at the land like you own it, because actually you're just buying the right to squat on it till you die, then someone else gets it. You have an obligation to the next guy to take care of the dirt, trees, and animals on the properly. It's sure worth more than a new truck or a trip to the evil mouse empire.

Don't leave out the old folks? Heck, I'm 73. Actually I was really scared when I bought that place. I bought the front half on a Texas Veterans Land Loan and the seller carried the note on the back. About 5 years later the seller was going through a divorce and she needed cash. I dickered some, got a low interest family loan, and kept on making payments. I also had 2 young kids at home, went through a divorce, but somehow kept current on payments. Later, when more money came available, I paid off the balance. I dang sure didn't drive a new pickup and we(new Wife) didn't go anywhere on a vacation.

This place really qualifies as junk land. Dang near all rocks, hills, oaks and cedars. Just what I wanted. After 5 years, I got a road cut through it. About 10 years ago, I bought a used mobile home and hauled water from home. Got a little more $ and drilled a well. Later a 2 acre leaky pond. It's our home away from home.

After $ got as little more free, I picked up a couple of other smaller places and sold them for a profit. I'll have to sell this place in a couple of years when my Wife retires. Then maybe we can take a real vacation or 2.

Funny story; I was raised on a small ranch/farm West of Muleshoe by my Grandparents. When I got the road built, I took my Grandfather to see the place. When we got to the back he said "Well, I've finally found it.". I asked what he meant. He said "When the Lord built the world, he had one piece of crap that he didn't know what to do with. So He went to Texas and stuffed it all in one junky place. And damned if you didn't come along and buy it.".

Mr T, not one dang thing with a 53 acre place when it's yours. BTW, look into an Ag or Wildlife exemption. It makes a huge difference in taxes.

BTW, there were a couple of years that I had to lease the hunting rights so I could make the payments. That hurt.

LOL! I SO agree with you.

If the oil prices will stay this low land will get cheaper by the month!

Not around here. Actually they may go up. With cheap gas you get more people buying land and commuting to San Antonio to work.

small tract hunting land for 99% of users on THF are more independent of oil prices. now the rising interest rates will have a negative impact, but I don't think significant for major decrease in prices.

Why does everyone think this? Not even cose to the truth in regards to ranch land

Larger tracts mostly operated or maintained of the backs of oil revenues will be impacted, sub-1000 acre ranches not so much. The duration of the oil plunge will also dictate it as well.

I think rural/recreational land prices will lay pretty flat for places with a 7 figure price tag; say 500+ acres in the near term. Creeping interest rates will impact the soon to be retirees looking to have a 'place in the country' but that may be offset somewhat by cheaper transportation costs. The rate that cash heavy retirees enter the buyer pool will slow a little bit as some will choose to stay employed and wait and see what Wall Street does. That could lead to an oversupply of available properties - again leading to market stagnation. I don't think we will see a decrease of values as sellers won't come off their asking price.

My crystal ball says generally flat for the next 24 months.

While I agree that they aren't 100% correlated, you can't say that oil (low or high prices) doesn't have bearing on real estate prices in Texas. It is not 1981 but oil still drives the bus here in Texas, don't think it doesn't.

i dont see anything lowering land prices, the majority of land is owned by a small % of big dogs, we common folk just get to buy up the crumbs they dont want

You are so right! I think it was Baron Rothschild who came up with the phrase "Buy when there is blood...." However, there is a 2nd part of that phrase that rarely gets quoted: "Buy when there is blood in the streets, even if that blood is your own."

This is staying on the same subject, just throwing some different players in the mix. I think this is a major reason for the Bundy BLM problem. Those western ranchers can't buy a private ranch to run their cattle, so they want to take ours. What do I mean by "ours", our national BLM and forest land. Most of us will never have the money to buy our own hunting area. However, we can dream that sometime if we have the time and money we can plan our own hunting trip out west. We are all very lucky that we as americans actually own millions and millions of hunting acres out west..............we just have a farther drive. just my 2 cents.

30+ years ago was making that thar easy money, whopping $7.22 an hour, down in the hole shoveling while the machines were running... Most made before twas minimum wage, if that... Wife kids, first priority twas roof over head, paying bills & such... Keep hearing bout the hog problems, yet when a hunter offers ta help ... so i did my part & hunted hogs on WMA ta put on the ... As pappy once said: hogs the other wild game ... Goes good with chilly, spagetty, hamberger helper, we had boneless steaks, or chops ta be PC, makes good hog jerky... Would be hunting way back down in the hollers taxation, tis not for every one, gave out plenty of invites, tis only hunted with 3 that i know of on HF... i'm not the most popular on here... that's cool...

You should buy as much Land next to BLM is possible. Great investment, they are great to work with and have the people's best interest at heart.