lease prices

I can not remember the last time I saw lease openings on what appear to be really good ranches that did not fill almost immediately. It makes me wonder if this is a sign of the times that prices have gone too high and with fewer oil and gas workers bank rolling, will the prices start to drop just slightly? It looks like there are a few really good looking places here on the forum that are still trying to fill up and have been for a couple of weeks. I have never seen prices go down so I tend to think they will hold steady or even continue to rise a little but it just makes me wonder why these are not full yet. I know for me it is just a price issue since I was not budgeting to spend $4500 but can easily see the value in what they are offering. I wish I had known a year ago these were going to open up. Just my luck.

If they are not leasing in Texas, they must be heading north. My Dad (lives in Kansas) has been contacted almost weekly this year with people looking to lease. I also field calls for Kansas leases pretty much every week and for Oklahoma & Missouri about the same.

I have been offered several exotic hunts at about 50% off 2 year ago prices.

So far this year I have done: 1) Texas Dall hunt for $250, Hybrid Mouflon (probably 95% or better) for $500 and Black buck for $1,000. Getting lots more offers as well, but I am totally booked for this year and can't take on more hunts.

The deer lease market is at supply and demand equilibrium. That is the joy of living in America.

I do not ever see lease prices going down. The demand is still very high for good leases where I am at. Also effecting leases is the fact that many ranches have split and/or been sold taking those ranches/leases off the market. A lot of ranches have went up and are not that good of quality of lease for the money. That is leaving some spot open. While others have gone up to what they consider fair market for what they have to offer on their land.

You can still find good land for lease at a good price, but you'll have to by pass the "middle man". My family and I stumbled upon a good deal back in January on a place in eastern Val Verde County. The LO and his ranch hand had a big disagreement which led to the entire group being booted off.

The LO told us flat out: "Mr Jones (ranch hand) was bringing double the allowable hunters out and charging them $3,800 a gun. Mr Jones only paid 20K for the 3200 acres which was supposed to have 10 hunters max. A few months into season I found out Mr Jones and his hunters were slaughtering Axis when I clearly stated no axis should be taken."

LO told us that the 20K for the lease is a drop in the bucket to what he makes on his sheep and 200 gas well. Said he just wanted a serious group that would take care of his land and manage the deer under his rules and the money meant nothing.

I think there are still opportunities like this you just have to be in the right place at the right time.

If you look hard enough you can find good leases at fair prices. A friend of mine hunts a place near the Matador Ranch for $1200 a year. Most places I've looked at are about $2000 with at the very least electricity at camp. Which I think in most areas is a pretty fair price. But I don't see lease prices going down anytime soon. If anything I've noticed more demand and less supply so it's quite possible to see them go up over the next few years. But that's just what I've observed.

I just saw a listing on FB for 25 acres in Duval county for $750 deer season only. Who would lease 25 acres?

Have you guys seen the population growth in texas from out-of-state folks? Mine is the only family in our entire neighborhood that is originally from texas. So many new folks, and many of them are wanting to learn how to hunt. Great for our sport and tradition. But bad for lease prices. I doubt prices will fall any time soon...

Seen on another site where a guy wants to lease his 54 or maybe it was 74 acres to 2 guys at $2500 a gun. I'm sorry, believe it was bow only!!! Not allowed to shoot any turkeys.

I would in the right part of Duval... one of mine is 14 acres in leon co.

Id rather grab those smaller cheap leases than a big expensive one... also keep it close to home.. one stand on the place.. low traffic and bow only.... love those kinda spots... I don't have to go further than 8 miles to get to all of them from the house.

i blame the economy... Economy income, can't aford a lease... Usdtacould aford too...

I hear this all the time from the guys on my smaller place and then I think about the $50K hunting rigs parked at camp.....wonder what the camp would look like in good times?

Amen Navasot, in the right spot and with good food plots and feeders you can make an oasis for the deer, as long as you can get the owner to respect your hard work also....

Well, this place ISN'T in the right place!!

Yep. A friend who's place I 'manage', has a small property but it has everything, creek, hills, low area for food plot, pond and high deer density. We could fill our tags, but don't. It's surrounded by large ranches. Location, location, location.

I go north. I have a lease in Kansas. I also have a place in Bell County. I dont pay for it but there are some stipulations that I have to agree to. Being that it is "free", I gladly agree to whatever the LO wants which means that there are certain days that I cant hunt because he is letting his kids hunt or his uncle is in town hunting. Will I kill a B&C buck off of this property?, More than likely, no but I shot a P&Y off it in 2013 and we have plenty of deer around with all of our shooters going 130"-150". Cant wait to see what this year has in store since we didnt kill a buck lsat year off of the place. We should have a couple of studs pending they survived the winter. In fact in 3 years on the place, we have shot 4 bucks. I shot a 132", kiddos killed 2 descent 8 pts and LO Uncle shot a 16pt freak.

Wow, sounds like his "ranch manager" might have been accepting golf games and steak dinners from his "friend" the "lease manager". Funny how the ranch owner who doesn't "need the money" was pissed that his "ranch manger" was accepting bribes....

This all sounds so.... familiar.

As others have said: gotta pay to play .... As mentioned earlier in this forum... First lease got on, everyone else was doing it, was for the 24-7-365 hog hunting... Rules were, no guests during deer season ... Three different times caught people on lease, not supose ta be their... Talked ta two, they said they had permisson from members... So whin got culled no biggy... Been on several other leases.. WMA opened up, hunted them... worth...

There are still quality leases at fair prices all across the state, but there are also a lot of places that are over-priced. A lot of that has to do with the increased use of lease brokers.

I just got on a new lease a few months ago in a area known for producing nice bucks, with a good ratio of acres per hunters, priced at just under $9/acre, camp with electricity and less than 3 hours from DFW. They are out there, but with the population increases we are seeing and the subdivision of rural properties taking place they will be harder to find. Prices will only be increasing, as well. When you find a good one - keep it, the grass is not always greener on the other side.

We have a great lease and found it right here 3 years ago. We are now in a long term agreeement with the landowner and do anything he asks us to do which isn't much.

I still hunt where I came from, can't afford it here.

I came here 25 yrs ago. It has been increasing on that lease too but much cheaper.

I don't see how someone says they can hunt in like Kansas for cheaper if they are really hunting the place... I don't care if its free if you hunt it even a dozen times a year how are you not getting eat up in Fuel?

Huge Difference ....in taking care of people then taking advantage of people.

X100 it's cheaper for me to lease then hunt my own ranch, and on top of that every trip is a tax deduction

Yep. Sure is. And in the illustrated situation the LO did in fact care about being ripped off. Typically they do.

My daddy used to tell me and my brother "If a man tells you it ain't about the money - it's about the money every time". I have found this to be very true. If folks are concerned about the money, they'll never bring it up.

You've got to pay to play.

I pay 4500 a year for our place. We have been lucky as we have not been increased for 8 years until this year.

It's all in what you value in life. I gladly pay $375 a month to have year round access to 9000 acres that I have the freedom to visit year round with family and friends. Do you have any idea what it would cost to own and upkeep 9000 acres?

We have fantastic hunting, but I look at the harvest of animals as the icing on the cake. I'd pay what I pay just to have a beautiful piece of property that I can use like my own with family and friends teeming with wildlife and far away from the metromess.

Sounds to me that this "ranch manager" was taking from all sides and lining his pockets. Big difference between going golfing and eating dinner with people and double and triple dipping so you can line your own pocket

Agreed. But, it was a pretty good op to tweak u.

And, point out that people richern 4' up a boars azz actually do in fact not like getting ripped off. Contrary to your silly self serving opinion.

This is a little 18 acre LF place I have about 2 miles from Bandera. A person could take WT and Axis enough for probably 4 people of it. If I wanted to lease it and charged say $3000 people would scream bloody murder. But if you look at what people pay for larger tracks and have very few deer plus no exotics it is actually pretty reasonable. leases for deer are like buying what you can afford. Some drive BMW and some Fords. The free market will take care of everything if you just give it time.

You disapeared for a spell and I haven't been on as much as usual....did see that you found my poke at you the other day though

Sometimes there is a fine line between getting ripped off and a good business decision

When you decide to lease something you are in the drivers seat. You are the one either shelling out the cash or writing the check. If you think it is too much money then walk away. Nothing in this world is too expensive for everyone. Lease prices are what they are because the free market has made them what they are. If they are too high then there will not be a market for them sand the price will go down. If there are more people looking for them than are available then the price will go up. Live with it. Unless Obama gets involved with deer leases and thinks everyone should have a lease the same as health care it won't change.

Whew...and dang! I sure hope the O never gets involved in our hunting habits.

You never know. He is getting involved with way more now than he should.

Wow, sounds like his "ranch manager" might have been accepting golf games and steak dinners from his "friend" the "lease manager". Funny how the ranch owner who doesn't "need the money" was pissed that his "ranch manger" was accepting bribes....

This all sounds so.... familiar. [/quote]

Sounds to me that this "ranch manager" was taking from all sides and lining his pockets. Big difference between going golfing and eating dinner with people and double and triple dipping so you can line your own pocket [/quote]

Agreed. But, it was a pretty good op to tweak u.

And, point out that people richern 4' up a boars azz actually do in fact not like getting ripped off. Contrary to your silly self serving opinion. [/quote]

You disapeared for a spell and I haven't been on as much as usual....did see that you found my poke at you the other day though

Sometimes there is a fine line between getting ripped off and a good business decision [/quote]

Difference usually depends on Ripper and Rippee. Morals change according to stories. Just like judging alcohol consumption.

Agreed. Pretty obvious to me that when you openly admit to serving up free steaks and golf to the ranch manager, who in turn hides higher lease offers from the landowner, you are in fact at least, a co-Ripper.

While the LO is the sole Rippee.

Yep, pretty obvious from my perspective.

You guys are beginning to get worried about my ranch manager. I may need to check on him a bit more. Especially since I see his truck parked at my house pretty often!

Seems like stuff around here has shot up insanely. Had a line on an elk ranch with landowner tags and was later to find out the landowner wanted $17K. Duck hunting leases have been going up something fierce also. My main property, which is 680 acres of property on which water is not at all guaranteed, went up 20% this year. Duck hunting was marginal last year but there was an early freeze. Picked up some river bottom which went for $8K (would have been 3K 2 years ago). A few outfitters have been running through here offering double what other people are paying for lease prices. The "little guy" doesn't have a chance.

Cash E Hogsett
https://birdsandbucksoutdoors.com/colorado-goose-hunting/colorado-duck-hunting/

I won't say any names, but I know a fella (ranch manager) that handles 15+ ranches all around the Hill Country. This guy makes a real good living @ $12K to $40K per ranch and also gets to choose one for his own use. Good guy that supplies all the equipment and even yearly feed for a few of the ranches. Better believe these ranches aren't $2K a gun

Yep. Mine is sleeping with my wife!!

So you gona lease it??

I don't want to offend anyone but no. I don't need the headaches of leasing.

Maybe you could just let me come shoot a couple of axis doe for the meat then.

I wonder with oil situation if more land will open back up? If I was making a bunch of money on oil I wouldn't want to deal with hunters either.

I've never seen a perfect situation for a lease, it is usually just finding best of the worst.

Can't hardly blame her - he's a very charming fellow

lol oh I hear you on that... I couldn't imagine leasing property... but I bet you could do it quick at that price even..

Oh, if only it was that simple...but we both know it isn't.

Random phone call with an offer from someone you have never met for $10k more than the current lease, sight unseen versus a group that has been around for over 20 years, has taken care of the place, helped with ranch work, been good stewards of the land, knows the owners personally, etc....yep, sounds just like the OP to me.

Plus, big difference between a lease manager and a ranch manager that has a monetary stake in the profit of the overall ranch....but why get into the minor details. For some, it is only about the money and relationships and trust have nothing to do with it

Now I want to buy a tract in Bandera ...

You can buy this one. $10,000 an acre.

There are a whole bunch you can buy for 10k an acre.

Actually that is not that bad a price for only 2 miles out of town.

Ohh. Got to sell a kidney first.

As someone that talks with landowners, hunters, and outfitters every day, I can give you my general take..

Most of the talk about free market economics is on-point in this thread. The only thing is that the lease market is super inefficient and slow at moving their prices to match the supply & demand.

Here are the biggest trends I've seen...

1. Oil does play a big part here in Texas. LOs are, for the most part, just looking to monetize their land to help pay taxes and make some money on the side (big hunting ranches aside). So if the LO has to choose, oil is a reasonable, profitable substitute with a much greater upside to leasing out for hunters. When the oil prices dry up, they're looking to get as much as that income back as possible, thus you have a slower moving downward trend on prices. The problem is, since it's a seasonal business, the lease prices don't adjust in time for the real market fluctuations.

2. Bad comparisons. There's no industry standard on how to price a lease. You could say $/acre, but what about the health of the wildlife on a property? What about the proximity to water? etc. Landowner "A" tries to price it like real estate "comps" and looks at his neighbor, Landowner "B" getting $30,000 for his lease. Then "A" decides that's what he'll charge too. Unfortunately, some poor sap from New York will pay this price and anchor Landowner B's prices for years to come.

3. Not living in reality. I used to be on a 5,000 acre lease being charged $1,000-$1,500 a year with a handfull of other hunters. The thing was... the LO was an elderly couple that had their same pricing structure from the 80's. (These probably do still exist, but you'll never be able to access them. They don't show up on the internet for more than 5 minutes) What happens most of the time, is elderly LO's pass away and their kids inherit the land. They see $$ signs and often leads to a land sale requiring kicking off the hunters until the deal is done. The price goes up 3X and now you have 20 or so hunters, not living in reality, looking for a unicorn that they'll never find.

It sucks. I didn't even go into to the corruption and fraud piece of a lot of deals, but I'm hoping we can start to make a difference by bringing more transparency to the industry.

slept in a jungle hammic their was old trailor full of rat's slept in a few times... Had a big family tent, for whin we did family camping.. Wife decided she & kids wanted ta go to lease. She took income tax money found old used camper... Defenition of good times, ya cant put a price on it... Shoot experts say our house only worth $10,000.oo... This year dought can aford hunting & fishing licence, had to scrap just ta get the $48.00 WMA permit... Will hunt for have gun will travel , price of eaten going up.. Dont do no good ta complain, tried that... i apolagize can't aford ta help out landowners....