Texas Hunting Forum

Whooping Crane Shot - Reward

Posted By: jeffbird

Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/03/15 09:13 PM

Some "hunter," and I use that term loosely, shot a Whooping Crane in Aransas Bay.

There is a reward of $27,500.

Time to police our own.

http://www.savingcranes.org/whats-new/2015/02/5307/

http://www.fws.gov/southwest/docs/WhoopingCraneReward_NR_020315.pdf
Posted By: redchevy

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/03/15 09:40 PM

Wish I knew!
Posted By: CCBIRDDOGMAN

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/03/15 09:45 PM

Originally Posted By: redchevy
Wish I knew!


Me too. I'd turn my Mom in for that kinda money!


J/K Mom. peep
Posted By: SniperRAB

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/03/15 11:07 PM

Posted By: stxranchman

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/03/15 11:10 PM

Originally Posted By: SniperRAB

bs we all know he would be choking that crane bs
Posted By: postoak

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/03/15 11:55 PM

Is this the same one reported on here earlier?
Posted By: BuckRage

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/03/15 11:58 PM

Sad but true.




Posted By: glens

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/04/15 12:41 AM

Just got back from Rockport and had seen 6 cranes together, right off the bay. Majestic birds. Hope they catch the idiot.
Posted By: jeffbird

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/04/15 01:43 AM

Originally Posted By: postoak
Is this the same one reported on here earlier?


I looked it up and it was in migratory bird section. Yes, same bird. Reward money is now being added to the investigation.

Originally Posted By: glens
Just got back from Rockport and had seen 6 cranes together, right off the bay. Majestic birds. Hope they catch the idiot.


Concur.
Posted By: huntwest

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/04/15 02:27 AM

27,500.00 for a bird! It is bad one got shot but that is ridiculous.
Posted By: jeffbird

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/04/15 02:50 AM

Originally Posted By: huntwest
27,500.00 for a bird! It is bad one got shot but that is ridiculous.


The county judge of Aransas County has testified under oath that the Whooping Cranes and refuge generate millions a year in tax revenue to Aransas County and the refuge is critical to the health of the bay and economy dependent on it which is worth tens of millions a year and hundreds of millions in property value.

So, no it is not a ridiculous amount in comparison.

If the Whooping Cranes were not there, the refuge would not be there. It would be just another stretch of coast with chemical plants, shopping strips, and some weekend homes and a bay comparable in recreation, hunting, fishing and seafood quality to Lavaca or Nueces Bay.

Given that the "hunter" is hiding, expect to see a vigorous prosecution if he is caught rather than him stepping up and owning what probably was an honest mistake. With the money coming to the table, will be interesting to see if one of his friends turns him out or he cracks from worrying about whether his friends will turn him in.
Posted By: txtrophy85

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/04/15 03:09 AM

If it was an honest mistake I'm sure he will keep mum about it and hope not to do it again
Posted By: jeffbird

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/04/15 03:11 AM

Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
If it was an honest mistake I'm sure he will keep mum about it and hope not to do it again



Guarantee he told someone. And who goes duck hunting alone in the bay?
Posted By: SR025

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/04/15 03:12 AM

Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
If it was an honest mistake I'm sure he will keep mum about it and hope not to do it again



Maybe he thought it was a goose grin
Posted By: rowdydog1

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/04/15 03:30 AM

Maybe he doesn't realize he shot it. I'm assuming it was found away from the hunter.
Posted By: tex70

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/04/15 04:15 AM

Please excuse my ignorance but why would you even shoot a crane down there? Do sandhill's migrate to the coast?
Posted By: krmitchell

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/04/15 04:48 AM

Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
If it was an honest mistake I'm sure he will keep mum about it and hope not to do it again



So shooting a bird that is 5 feet tall falls under the category of an honest mistake how? WTF could you possibly mistake a man size bird for?
Posted By: Grosvenor

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/04/15 05:05 AM

Yep
Posted By: Erathkid

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/04/15 12:00 PM

Originally Posted By: rexmitchell
Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
If it was an honest mistake I'm sure he will keep mum about it and hope not to do it again



So shooting a bird that is 5 feet tall falls under the category of an honest mistake how? WTF could you possibly mistake a man size bird for?
Exactly. No way he didn't know what it was. Stunts like that will getting hunting banned from the area.
Posted By: Western

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/04/15 12:11 PM

No sense in this, hope they catch the bum.
Posted By: krmitchell

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/04/15 02:47 PM

Originally Posted By: Erathkid
Originally Posted By: rexmitchell
Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
If it was an honest mistake I'm sure he will keep mum about it and hope not to do it again



So shooting a bird that is 5 feet tall falls under the category of an honest mistake how? WTF could you possibly mistake a man size bird for?
Exactly. No way he didn't know what it was. Stunts like that will getting hunting banned from the area.


Gotta agree with the OP's statement, this is a situation where policing our own is super important.
Posted By: redchevy

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/04/15 02:50 PM

If I picked a whooping crane out of a lineup it would be pure luck. I don't know what they look like.
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/04/15 02:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Erathkid
Originally Posted By: rexmitchell
Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
If it was an honest mistake I'm sure he will keep mum about it and hope not to do it again



So shooting a bird that is 5 feet tall falls under the category of an honest mistake how? WTF could you possibly mistake a man size bird for?
Exactly. No way he didn't know what it was. Stunts like that will getting hunting banned from the area.


While it's sad a whooper died. Their existence has nothing to do with get hunting banned down there.
Posted By: krmitchell

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/04/15 02:56 PM

Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: Erathkid
Originally Posted By: rexmitchell
Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
If it was an honest mistake I'm sure he will keep mum about it and hope not to do it again



So shooting a bird that is 5 feet tall falls under the category of an honest mistake how? WTF could you possibly mistake a man size bird for?
Exactly. No way he didn't know what it was. Stunts like that will getting hunting banned from the area.


While it's sad a whooper died. Their existence has nothing to do with get hunting banned down there.


Yea but I guarantee you it will be used as ammunition against hunting in the area.
Posted By: BenBob

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/04/15 02:58 PM

Wonder if the guy that shot it gets the reward if he turns himself in?
Posted By: glens

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/04/15 03:33 PM

Originally Posted By: BenBob
Wonder if the guy that shot it gets the reward if he turns himself in?


hammer
Posted By: glens

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/04/15 03:36 PM

Originally Posted By: tex70
Please excuse my ignorance but why would you even shoot a crane down there? Do sandhill's migrate to the coast?



Yes they do. The Hoopers I seen over the weekend were by about a dozen of Sandhill Cranes. About a foot taller it seemed. Those Whooping Guys are Tall.
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/04/15 03:41 PM

Originally Posted By: jeffbird
Originally Posted By: huntwest
27,500.00 for a bird! It is bad one got shot but that is ridiculous.


The county judge of Aransas County has testified under oath that the Whooping Cranes and refuge generate millions a year in tax revenue to Aransas County and the refuge is critical to the health of the bay and economy dependent on it which is worth tens of millions a year and hundreds of millions in property value.

So, no it is not a ridiculous amount in comparison.

If the Whooping Cranes were not there, the refuge would not be there. It would be just another stretch of coast with chemical plants, shopping strips, and some weekend homes and a bay comparable in recreation, hunting, fishing and seafood quality to Lavaca or Nueces Bay.

Given that the "hunter" is hiding, expect to see a vigorous prosecution if he is caught rather than him stepping up and owning what probably was an honest mistake. With the money coming to the table, will be interesting to see if one of his friends turns him out or he cracks from worrying about whether his friends will turn him in.


While it's sad and a bad deal that someone found the need to kill an endangered bird... The whooping crane has no bearing on the Aransas Wildlife refuge by itself. The refuge was created by Roosevelt in 1937 as wintering grounds for ALL types of Migratory waterfowl. The whooping crane wasn't put on the endangered list until 1968. If the whoopers where gone tomorrow it would be sad and bad deal but the refuge would live on.

That's like saying the refuge was created for alligators and it should be closed now since gators where removed from the list in 1987.

a private group actually tried to sue state of TX over the death of 23 birds in 2008-2009 for issuing river water permits that they claimed caused the starvation of those birds.

It's a tricky situation when you start putting birds before humans.

Aransas county isn't support by the Whooping cranes. It's supported by humans that hunt and fish there and those that pay propertery taxes there. That would include me on all three accounts.


Sad and bad deal that one of our own may have killed an endangered bird. I hope they fess up, and take thier punishment
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/04/15 03:53 PM

Originally Posted By: glens
Originally Posted By: tex70
Please excuse my ignorance but why would you even shoot a crane down there? Do sandhill's migrate to the coast?



Yes they do. The Hoopers I seen over the weekend were by about a dozen of Sandhill Cranes. About a foot taller it seemed. Those Whooping Guys are Tall.


Very tall and there is no open season for Sandhills down there so there is no error. It's a bad deal and gives us all a black eye.
Posted By: SniperRAB

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/04/15 05:06 PM

Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: glens
Originally Posted By: tex70
Please excuse my ignorance but why would you even shoot a crane down there? Do sandhill's migrate to the coast?



Yes they do. The Hoopers I seen over the weekend were by about a dozen of Sandhill Cranes. About a foot taller it seemed. Those Whooping Guys are Tall.


Very tall and there is no open season for Sandhills down there so there is no error. It's a bad deal and gives us all a black eye.



I agree, it will not end well for the actor for sure...I bet that is one expensive mistake
Posted By: skinnerback

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/04/15 07:12 PM

Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: jeffbird
Originally Posted By: huntwest
27,500.00 for a bird! It is bad one got shot but that is ridiculous.


The county judge of Aransas County has testified under oath that the Whooping Cranes and refuge generate millions a year in tax revenue to Aransas County and the refuge is critical to the health of the bay and economy dependent on it which is worth tens of millions a year and hundreds of millions in property value.

So, no it is not a ridiculous amount in comparison.

If the Whooping Cranes were not there, the refuge would not be there. It would be just another stretch of coast with chemical plants, shopping strips, and some weekend homes and a bay comparable in recreation, hunting, fishing and seafood quality to Lavaca or Nueces Bay.

Given that the "hunter" is hiding, expect to see a vigorous prosecution if he is caught rather than him stepping up and owning what probably was an honest mistake. With the money coming to the table, will be interesting to see if one of his friends turns him out or he cracks from worrying about whether his friends will turn him in.


While it's sad and a bad deal that someone found the need to kill an endangered bird... The whooping crane has no bearing on the Aransas Wildlife refuge by itself. The refuge was created by Roosevelt in 1937 as wintering grounds for ALL types of Migratory waterfowl. The whooping crane wasn't put on the endangered list until 1968. If the whoopers where gone tomorrow it would be sad and bad deal but the refuge would live on.

That's like saying the refuge was created for alligators and it should be closed now since gators where removed from the list in 1987.

a private group actually tried to sue state of TX over the death of 23 birds in 2008-2009 for issuing river water permits that they claimed caused the starvation of those birds.

It's a tricky situation when you start putting birds before humans.

Aransas county isn't support by the Whooping cranes. It's supported by humans that hunt and fish there and those that pay propertery taxes there. That would include me on all three accounts.


Sad and bad deal that one of our own may have killed an endangered bird. I hope they fess up, and take thier punishment


up
Posted By: toddjohnson

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/04/15 07:40 PM

I would turn myself in and use the reward for my lawyers
Posted By: txtrophy85

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/04/15 07:44 PM

Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: Erathkid
Originally Posted By: rexmitchell
Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
If it was an honest mistake I'm sure he will keep mum about it and hope not to do it again



So shooting a bird that is 5 feet tall falls under the category of an honest mistake how? WTF could you possibly mistake a man size bird for?
Exactly. No way he didn't know what it was. Stunts like that will getting hunting banned from the area.


While it's sad a whooper died. Their existence has nothing to do with get hunting banned down there.


a hunter shot a whooping crane by accident many years ago....they didn't close the refuge.

if 20 some-odd birds died in 2009 its not like one killing is going to doom the species.

not saying poaching should be tolerated, but its one bird.
Posted By: jeffbird

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/04/15 07:55 PM

Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: jeffbird
Originally Posted By: huntwest
27,500.00 for a bird! It is bad one got shot but that is ridiculous.


The county judge of Aransas County has testified under oath that the Whooping Cranes and refuge generate millions a year in tax revenue to Aransas County and the refuge is critical to the health of the bay and economy dependent on it which is worth tens of millions a year and hundreds of millions in property value.

So, no it is not a ridiculous amount in comparison.

If the Whooping Cranes were not there, the refuge would not be there. It would be just another stretch of coast with chemical plants, shopping strips, and some weekend homes and a bay comparable in recreation, hunting, fishing and seafood quality to Lavaca or Nueces Bay.

Given that the "hunter" is hiding, expect to see a vigorous prosecution if he is caught rather than him stepping up and owning what probably was an honest mistake. With the money coming to the table, will be interesting to see if one of his friends turns him out or he cracks from worrying about whether his friends will turn him in.


While it's sad and a bad deal that someone found the need to kill an endangered bird... The whooping crane has no bearing on the Aransas Wildlife refuge by itself. The refuge was created by Roosevelt in 1937 as wintering grounds for ALL types of Migratory waterfowl. The whooping crane wasn't put on the endangered list until 1968. If the whoopers where gone tomorrow it would be sad and bad deal but the refuge would live on.

That's like saying the refuge was created for alligators and it should be closed now since gators where removed from the list in 1987.

a private group actually tried to sue state of TX over the death of 23 birds in 2008-2009 for issuing river water permits that they claimed caused the starvation of those birds.

It's a tricky situation when you start putting birds before humans.

Aransas county isn't support by the Whooping cranes. It's supported by humans that hunt and fish there and those that pay propertery taxes there. That would include me on all three accounts.


Sad and bad deal that one of our own may have killed an endangered bird. I hope they fess up, and take thier punishment


Bobo,

Respectfully, there are some significant errors in that post. I'll leave it at saying my knowledge of the subject matter of your post is substantial, and I have the luxury of not guessing or speculating. The "bird" in my handle comes from my involvement in bird conservation including substantial involvement in some aspects of the subject matter.

First, the Endangered Species Act did not exist in the 1930's. At that time and still today, Whooping Cranes fell within the scope of the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, through an agreement in 1916 known as a "convention" and adopted into law in 1918 in the US. The MBTA was, (and still is) an international treaty ratified between the United States, Mexico, and at that time Great Britain as the governing body for Canada. The MBTA still provides obligations of the three countries to protect birds that migrate between the countries and it is the basis for the hunting seasons and bag limits for migratory birds such as ducks, geese, and Sandhill Cranes. This act is still in effect today and prohibits the hunting, killing, injuring, or "take" of all migratory birds including Whooping Cranes, except those specifically authorized for hunting as game birds. This is why shooting small migratory birds such as warblers, orioles, and others is a federal offense in addition to a state offense, as it violates the international agreement between the governments of Canada, the US, and Mexico. Even if the ESA was repealed, Whooping Cranes are still protected by the MBTA and shooting one still would be a federal criminal offense.

The ESA came into existence in its first form in October 1966, known as the Endangered Species Preservation Act. The first list of protected species known as the "Class of '67" included the Whooping Crane. The new act carried forward the same framework, definitions, and regulatory framework of the MBTA, but extended it to other species.

As a note of history, the creation and funding of Aransas NWR were done through executive orders of President Franklin Roosevelt, who visited the area in 1937 for vacation and fishing. When I was young in the '60's and '70's, there was a tarpon scale on the wall of the Tarpon Inn in Port Aransas from a fish he caught.

The MBTA included the regulation of migratory game birds such as ducks, geese, coots, and gallinules - and also Cranes, both Sandhill and Whooping Cranes, which were legally hunted before then. In 1937 the year of President Roosevelt's visit for vacation, the MBTA closed hunting of Whooping Cranes under the international treaty. In 1938, the Aransas Refuge was purchased with funds allocated to protection of the migratory species covered by the act. The Aransas Refuge was specifically created and managed for the benefit of the Cranes. The other migratory birds, not just waterfowl, were and are incidental beneficiaries, but the Whooping Cranes were the driving force for the creation of the refuge. Ever since, the Aransas NWR has been managed for Whooping Cranes as its priority, everything else is secondary on management goals.

With respect to the case, over 300 different individuals, groups, businesses, and governmental entities were plaintiffs bringing the suit. Among the group were Aransas County, the Aransas County Navigation District, the City of Rockport, the City of Fulton, the Republican Party of Aransas County, the Democratic Party of Aransas County, fishing guides, hotel/motel owners, commercial seafood producers, and businesses dependent on tourism related to the Cranes and the health of the bay. The reason they cared was because the Whooping Cranes were dying because the bay ecosystem was collapsing, and they depend on it for their own economic survival.

Your impression of "putting birds before people" is actually more of putting people and some large industrial users upriver over the interests of the people who depend on the health of the bay for their livelihoods.

The County Judge of Aransas County testified on behalf of Aransas County that the Cranes and protection of the habitat upon which they depend are the underpinning of the economy of Aransas County. He testified that the threats posed by choking off of the water supply to feed the habitat upon which the Cranes depended posed an "existential threat" to the viability of the economy of the county.

The ecosystem which the Cranes rely upon is the same one which provides fish for recreation as well as for the commercial seafood industry. Commercial fishing guides were among the most ardent supporters of the case because they recognize that what is good for the Cranes is good for their business. If the Cranes die because the bay ecosystem dies upon which they rely, then all activities which rely on the same ecosystem will perish as well.

The challenges facing the Whooping Cranes here in Texas are a warning like the canary in the coal mine. Whether any politician has the fortitude to stand up and say it publicly, we are at the limits of the carrying capacity of the land/water in this state right now. Every single drop of water in every single lake and river is committed to someone, somehow. Many rivers now are primarily filled with treated waste water. The Trinity River downriver from Dallas is essentially 100% treated wastewater, which is used, treated again, and passed on down river again. All of our bay systems are under extreme stress. There are huge economic interests dependent on these bay systems for all manner of business, tourism, recreation, seafood production, and businesses that support those.

Not that it matters one whit, but to me, conservation should be non-partisan. Presidents Teddy Roosevelt and Richard Nixon did more to protect wildlife and the ecosystems upon which they exist than most other presidents added together. For those of a religious mind, if God created this, should we not respect and honor his creation?







Posted By: JJH

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/04/15 08:44 PM

very informative post....thanks
Posted By: jeffbird

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/04/15 08:57 PM

You're welcome.
Posted By: postoak

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/04/15 09:26 PM

Probably a kid or teenager. When I was young, I shot all kinds of things without knowing what they were or having a hunting license, and out-of-season, etc.
Posted By: redchevy

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/04/15 09:36 PM

Yup you can say that again postoak. Sometimes I wonder where the guys grew up that said they had to eat everything they killed... because I didn't know a single one like em when I was growing up.
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/04/15 09:49 PM

Originally Posted By: jeffbird
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: jeffbird
Originally Posted By: huntwest
27,500.00 for a bird! It is bad one got shot but that is ridiculous.


The county judge of Aransas County has testified under oath that the Whooping Cranes and refuge generate millions a year in tax revenue to Aransas County and the refuge is critical to the health of the bay and economy dependent on it which is worth tens of millions a year and hundreds of millions in property value.

So, no it is not a ridiculous amount in comparison.

If the Whooping Cranes were not there, the refuge would not be there. It would be just another stretch of coast with chemical plants, shopping strips, and some weekend homes and a bay comparable in recreation, hunting, fishing and seafood quality to Lavaca or Nueces Bay.

Given that the "hunter" is hiding, expect to see a vigorous prosecution if he is caught rather than him stepping up and owning what probably was an honest mistake. With the money coming to the table, will be interesting to see if one of his friends turns him out or he cracks from worrying about whether his friends will turn him in.


While it's sad and a bad deal that someone found the need to kill an endangered bird... The whooping crane has no bearing on the Aransas Wildlife refuge by itself. The refuge was created by Roosevelt in 1937 as wintering grounds for ALL types of Migratory waterfowl. The whooping crane wasn't put on the endangered list until 1968. If the whoopers where gone tomorrow it would be sad and bad deal but the refuge would live on.

That's like saying the refuge was created for alligators and it should be closed now since gators where removed from the list in 1987.

a private group actually tried to sue state of TX over the death of 23 birds in 2008-2009 for issuing river water permits that they claimed caused the starvation of those birds.

It's a tricky situation when you start putting birds before humans.

Aransas county isn't support by the Whooping cranes. It's supported by humans that hunt and fish there and those that pay propertery taxes there. That would include me on all three accounts.


Sad and bad deal that one of our own may have killed an endangered bird. I hope they fess up, and take thier punishment


Bobo,

Respectfully, there are some significant errors in that post. I'll leave it at saying my knowledge of the subject matter of your post is substantial, and I have the luxury of not guessing or speculating. The "bird" in my handle comes from my involvement in bird conservation including substantial involvement in some aspects of the subject matter.

First, the Endangered Species Act did not exist in the 1930's. At that time and still today, Whooping Cranes fell within the scope of the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, through an agreement in 1916 known as a "convention" and adopted into law in 1918 in the US. The MBTA was, (and still is) an international treaty ratified between the United States, Mexico, and at that time Great Britain as the governing body for Canada. The MBTA still provides obligations of the three countries to protect birds that migrate between the countries and it is the basis for the hunting seasons and bag limits for migratory birds such as ducks, geese, and Sandhill Cranes. This act is still in effect today and prohibits the hunting, killing, injuring, or "take" of all migratory birds including Whooping Cranes, except those specifically authorized for hunting as game birds. This is why shooting small migratory birds such as warblers, orioles, and others is a federal offense in addition to a state offense, as it violates the international agreement between the governments of Canada, the US, and Mexico. Even if the ESA was repealed, Whooping Cranes are still protected by the MBTA and shooting one still would be a federal criminal offense.

The ESA came into existence in its first form in October 1966, known as the Endangered Species Preservation Act. The first list of protected species known as the "Class of '67" included the Whooping Crane. The new act carried forward the same framework, definitions, and regulatory framework of the MBTA, but extended it to other species.

As a note of history, the creation and funding of Aransas NWR were done through executive orders of President Franklin Roosevelt, who visited the area in 1937 for vacation and fishing. When I was young in the '60's and '70's, there was a tarpon scale on the wall of the Tarpon Inn in Port Aransas from a fish he caught.

The MBTA included the regulation of migratory game birds such as ducks, geese, coots, and gallinules - and also Cranes, both Sandhill and Whooping Cranes, which were legally hunted before then. In 1937 the year of President Roosevelt's visit for vacation, the MBTA closed hunting of Whooping Cranes under the international treaty. In 1938, the Aransas Refuge was purchased with funds allocated to protection of the migratory species covered by the act. The Aransas Refuge was specifically created and managed for the benefit of the Cranes. The other migratory birds, not just waterfowl, were and are incidental beneficiaries, but the Whooping Cranes were the driving force for the creation of the refuge. Ever since, the Aransas NWR has been managed for Whooping Cranes as its priority, everything else is secondary on management goals.

With respect to the case, over 300 different individuals, groups, businesses, and governmental entities were plaintiffs bringing the suit. Among the group were Aransas County, the Aransas County Navigation District, the City of Rockport, the City of Fulton, the Republican Party of Aransas County, the Democratic Party of Aransas County, fishing guides, hotel/motel owners, commercial seafood producers, and businesses dependent on tourism related to the Cranes and the health of the bay. The reason they cared was because the Whooping Cranes were dying because the bay ecosystem was collapsing, and they depend on it for their own economic survival.

Your impression of "putting birds before people" is actually more of putting people and some large industrial users upriver over the interests of the people who depend on the health of the bay for their livelihoods.

The County Judge of Aransas County testified on behalf of Aransas County that the Cranes and protection of the habitat upon which they depend are the underpinning of the economy of Aransas County. He testified that the threats posed by choking off of the water supply to feed the habitat upon which the Cranes depended posed an "existential threat" to the viability of the economy of the county.

The ecosystem which the Cranes rely upon is the same one which provides fish for recreation as well as for the commercial seafood industry. Commercial fishing guides were among the most ardent supporters of the case because they recognize that what is good for the Cranes is good for their business. If the Cranes die because the bay ecosystem dies upon which they rely, then all activities which rely on the same ecosystem will perish as well.

The challenges facing the Whooping Cranes here in Texas are a warning like the canary in the coal mine. Whether any politician has the fortitude to stand up and say it publicly, we are at the limits of the carrying capacity of the land/water in this state right now. Every single drop of water in every single lake and river is committed to someone, somehow. Many rivers now are primarily filled with treated waste water. The Trinity River downriver from Dallas is essentially 100% treated wastewater, which is used, treated again, and passed on down river again. All of our bay systems are under extreme stress. There are huge economic interests dependent on these bay systems for all manner of business, tourism, recreation, seafood production, and businesses that support those.

Not that it matters one whit, but to me, conservation should be non-partisan. Presidents Teddy Roosevelt and Richard Nixon did more to protect wildlife and the ecosystems upon which they exist than most other presidents added together. For those of a religious mind, if God created this, should we not respect and honor his creation?




Outstanding post and well written.

I'm very aware of the suit, I donated to it ironically( other reasons outside of the whooping crane, like you stated I did it for the bay and other projects I'm not found of, it's basically only way to sting TCEQ ). I still stand by Rockport/Fulton and Aransas Wildlike refuge survive with out the WC. Doesn't mean I want them gone, just means the area isn't based or supported via the WC.

No one wants the rivers free flowing as badly as I but that's not going to happen. I also realize there has to be compermise on humans and animals. One has to come before the other.

Not happy about the Five trout rule in Baffin either now smile
Posted By: jeffbird

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/04/15 10:19 PM

Thank you Bobo. Maybe we can have a beer together some day.

Here is a bird i.d. guide to similar appearing birds. ALL birds on this image are protected and may not be killed except for the Snow Goose and Sandhill Crane.

And as a general fyi - some of the Cranes have left the area of the refuge looking for food. They likely will be found in wet areas along lakes, ponds, and wetlands, and also ag fields particularly those with corn.

They have been known to go to deer feeders to find food. So, if you see a big huge white bird, please don't shoot it. The sub-adult birds can be somewhat similar to a Sandhill. The sub-adults have rust colored streaking but still over white feathers.

They fly very slowly, so there is no way to confuse their flight with a goose.

Posted By: trapperben

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/04/15 11:35 PM

Great posts from Jeff and Bobo; learned a lot. I suspect the shooter is going to be identified and it will be better if done sooner then later.
Posted By: skinnerback

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/05/15 12:57 AM

I agree, very well written piece Jeffbird. I also agree that yes the cranes were definitely a main driver to establishing the refuge back then, but if they were to ever become extinct the refuge isn't going anywhere, now. I can tell you first hand that right now the biggest threat to the Whoopers on the refuge are the pigs.
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/05/15 01:29 AM

Originally Posted By: jeffbird
Thank you Bobo. Maybe we can have a beer together some day.

Here is a bird i.d. guide to similar appearing birds. ALL birds on this image are protected and may not be killed except for the Snow Goose and Sandhill Crane.

And as a general fyi - some of the Cranes have left the area of the refuge looking for food. They likely will be found in wet areas along lakes, ponds, and wetlands, and also ag fields particularly those with corn.

They have been known to go to deer feeders to find food. So, if you see a big huge white bird, please don't shoot it. The sub-adult birds can be somewhat similar to a Sandhill. The sub-adults have rust colored streaking but still over white feathers.

They fly very slowly, so there is no way to confuse their flight with a goose.



Absolutely!!! I have the upmost respect for what you do. up

I'm buying though smile
Posted By: jeffbird

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/05/15 04:04 AM

Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown

I'm buying though smile


cheers
Posted By: JRR

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/05/15 07:33 PM

Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: jeffbird
Thank you Bobo. Maybe we can have a beer together some day.

Here is a bird i.d. guide to similar appearing birds. ALL birds on this image are protected and may not be killed except for the Snow Goose and Sandhill Crane.

And as a general fyi - some of the Cranes have left the area of the refuge looking for food. They likely will be found in wet areas along lakes, ponds, and wetlands, and also ag fields particularly those with corn.

They have been known to go to deer feeders to find food. So, if you see a big huge white bird, please don't shoot it. The sub-adult birds can be somewhat similar to a Sandhill. The sub-adults have rust colored streaking but still over white feathers.

They fly very slowly, so there is no way to confuse their flight with a goose.



Absolutely!!! I have the upmost respect for what you do. up

I'm buying though smile


I've almost got a grand slam !!!!
Posted By: passthru

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/06/15 01:03 AM

If the bird were truly a viable species why are the numbers increasing so slowly?
Posted By: Dustnsand

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/06/15 01:33 AM

Great posts in here. I actually learned some things.
Posted By: jeffbird

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/06/15 03:21 AM

Originally Posted By: passthru
If the bird were truly a viable species why are the numbers increasing so slowly?


pt,

Actually, the numbers show a strong trend of recovery which has been slightly accelerating overall in recent years.

There has been an addition of 17,000+ acres protected around Powderhorn Lake in 2014, which will protect habitat for the new family units as they continue to establish their own family territories. The protection of Powderhorn Lake from development also has the benefit of protecting that estuary for the benefit of shrimp, fish, and crabs, which helps recreational users as well as seafood production.

Here are a couple of graphs.







Here is a graph for the Eastern Flock which is being established in case there is a catastrophic event with the Aransas/Western Flock, such as disease outbreak or a chemical spill in the Intracoastal Canal. The number is now actually up to 100 birds in the Eastern Flock. This graph includes birds being added to the flock.

http://www.bringbackthecranes.org/technicaldatabase/projectupdates/2015/01JanTo31Jan2015.html




Z and others, glad you are finding the discussion interesting and informative.

Posted By: passthru

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/06/15 03:17 PM

It is interesting. I wonder how long it will take to get the numbers to a sustainable population. How long do you commit such funding to keep them going until you determine it's a money pit?
Posted By: Nogalus Prairie

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/06/15 04:05 PM

Originally Posted By: passthru
It is interesting. I wonder how long it will take to get the numbers to a sustainable population. How long do you commit such funding to keep them going until you determine it's a money pit?


It's a money pit to many.

To others, it's a statement of our priorities and attitude towards our environment. Conserving and protecting habitat is a laudable goal to many. The Whoopers are both a beneficiary and a symbol of conservation in general.
Posted By: jeffbird

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/06/15 04:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted By: passthru
It is interesting. I wonder how long it will take to get the numbers to a sustainable population. How long do you commit such funding to keep them going until you determine it's a money pit?


It's a money pit to many.

To others, it's a statement of our priorities and attitude towards our environment. Conserving and protecting habitat is a laudable goal to many. The Whoopers are both a beneficiary and a symbol of conservation in general.


+1 up

Also, as discussed earlier in the thread, there are lots of businesses making a living off of having them there. Also, preserving the habitat to support them has many collateral benefits such as maintaining the quality of the recreational fishing, which supports boat builders, boat sales and repairs, marinas, hotels, vacation homes, Cabela's and so on. The shrimp and crabs in the grocery store are coming from the same ecosystem. Saving the ecosystem for the Cranes means saving the food supply for humans too. Personally, I like crab and shrimp more than tofu chunks\.

The goal for population size for recovery is 1,000, which seems very attainable.


Posted By: JRR

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/07/15 12:31 AM

Government dreaming up ways to waste our money.
Posted By: txtrophy85

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/07/15 05:00 PM

Originally Posted By: trapperben
Great posts from Jeff and Bobo; learned a lot. I suspect the shooter is going to be identified and it will be better if done sooner then later.


what makes you suspect the shooter is going to be identified?

it didn't happen in a parking lot in a Wal-Mart there are probably 2-3 guys tops who where there when it was shot. maybe less than that.
Posted By: Txduckman

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/10/15 04:44 AM

Sometimes you have to move backwards, to move forward. Same way with saving a species. It is in human nature to save something even if it costs a ton of money. Hopefully they won't be artificially sustained and live on their own which I think they are for the most part.
Posted By: Erathkid

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/10/15 06:18 PM

Originally Posted By: JRR
Government dreaming up ways to waste our money.
Did you NOT read any of this?
Posted By: Whitecrow

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/10/15 07:13 PM

We had 3 hanging around our goose lease in the Nada area early in the season. Not sure how you could confuse them with anything, even on a foggy day. If the guy shot it on purpose, then I hope he gets the full punishment. I'm going to guess that the treatment of the last guy who turned himself in will keep this one from doing the same.
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/10/15 07:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Erathkid
Originally Posted By: JRR
Government dreaming up ways to waste our money.
Did you NOT read any of this?


Yes, but becareful if you need drinking water if you live in Corpus Christi, or have cattle or farming land that catches water going into the river basin.

Saltily of the bay is an on going battle. Whether it's the Colorado, Guadalupe, Neuces, lavaca it's the same issue. Flow rates.

The whooping crane carries the most legal weight against state agencies because of its federal status.

It's a catch 22. There is a lot of issues that could of went down if suit would of held. Would of been a big win for the gulf(fish, wildlife, people) but a big loss for anyone that caughts any water that runs into the Gaudalupe river basin, or uses water from the river basin, including municipalities. Add now a precedent that follows through to every river basin in Texas that joins the gulf.

Sad we are in the situation and the drought differently excellerated it.

Sooner or later something has to give. In our life time we may very well see the breaking point.
Posted By: jeffbird

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/10/15 07:30 PM

Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Sooner or later something has to give. In our life time we may very well see the breaking point.


We are at that critical point right now, actually well past it - ask those who depend on the bay.

Their water has been taken away and they are losing their economic survival.

Meanwhile, city dwellers fill pools, water lawns and golf courses. However, even if we turn all of those uses off right now, there still would not be enough to help those dependent on the bays or the farmers.

If this was happening on a ranch to deer or cattle, the analysis would be too many animals to fit the carrying capacity and the solution would be to lower the numbers. What politician will have the honesty and strength to stand up and say we are full, no more room in this state, or at least the western 2/3's?
Posted By: kry226

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/10/15 07:49 PM

Absolutely agree, great info in here. And if the bird was shot, the offender deserves vigorous prosecution AND defense in accordance with applicable laws and rights granted in our fair land. But a couple of things piqued my interest.

1. From the article, it's not even certain that the crane actually was shot. Have there been any updates confirming it as a shooting? If so, that should be clarified. If not, might we have our feathers ruffled for little more than nothing?

Quote:
the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service and Texas Parks & Wildlife Department (TPWD) have announced the recent death of a Whooping Crane in Texas, also likely due to a shooting.


2.
Quote:
“The killing of a Whooping Crane in Texas is unforgivable,” said Dr. Elizabeth Smith, ICF Texas Program Director.


Um, no. No it's not, Dr. Smith. And I'm hoping it's not what you really meant.
Posted By: Navasot

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/10/15 07:50 PM

Originally Posted By: jeffbird
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Sooner or later something has to give. In our life time we may very well see the breaking point.


We are at that critical point right now, actually well past it - ask those who depend on the bay.

Their water has been taken away and they are losing their economic survival.

Meanwhile, city dwellers fill pools, water lawns and golf courses. However, even if we turn all of those uses off right now, there still would not be enough to help those dependent on the bays or the farmers.

If this was happening on a ranch to deer or cattle, the analysis would be too many animals to fit the carrying capacity and the solution would be to lower the numbers. What politician will have the honesty and strength to stand up and say we are full, no more room in this state, or at least the western 2/3's?



Population control.... very true

but people are living longer and having more kids.. they gota go somewere..
Posted By: passthru

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/10/15 07:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Navasot
Originally Posted By: jeffbird
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Sooner or later something has to give. In our life time we may very well see the breaking point.


We are at that critical point right now, actually well past it - ask those who depend on the bay.

Their water has been taken away and they are losing their economic survival.

Meanwhile, city dwellers fill pools, water lawns and golf courses. However, even if we turn all of those uses off right now, there still would not be enough to help those dependent on the bays or the farmers.

If this was happening on a ranch to deer or cattle, the analysis would be too many animals to fit the carrying capacity and the solution would be to lower the numbers. What politician will have the honesty and strength to stand up and say we are full, no more room in this state, or at least the western 2/3's?



Population control.... very true

but people are living longer and having more kids.. they gota go somewere..


Yep, and unfortunately, too many of those super populating the place are the uneducated and ignorant. Too many them are getting a check from the system because they choose to not do anything productive to contribute. There are more not contributing all the time and too few of us who are. And our numbers are dwindling.
Posted By: passthru

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/10/15 08:02 PM

The city of Fort Worth still allows irrigation, limited, but allows it. Even though there are significant losses to our supply reservoirs, no significant precipitation in sight to change that dismal situation. It's about money. If you stop people from irrigating you sell less water. If you sell less water you can't fund infrastructure upgrades and improvements. To hell with down stream.
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/10/15 08:06 PM

Originally Posted By: jeffbird
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Sooner or later something has to give. In our life time we may very well see the breaking point.


We are at that critical point right now, actually well past it - ask those who depend on the bay.

Their water has been taken away and they are losing their economic survival.

Meanwhile, city dwellers fill pools, water lawns and golf courses. However, even if we turn all of those uses off right now, there still would not be enough to help those dependent on the bays or the farmers.

If this was happening on a ranch to deer or cattle, the analysis would be too many animals to fit the carrying capacity and the solution would be to lower the numbers. What politician will have the honesty and strength to stand up and say we are full, no more room in this state, or at least the western 2/3's?


Hence the reason I said earlier its a slippery slope. Bad situation for everyone. Right now only win win would be for Mother Nature to get a little more consitant and free flowing on rain fall.
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/10/15 08:07 PM

A lot more consitant actually
Posted By: jeffbird

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/10/15 08:23 PM

Originally Posted By: passthru
Originally Posted By: Navasot
Originally Posted By: jeffbird
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Sooner or later something has to give. In our life time we may very well see the breaking point.


We are at that critical point right now, actually well past it - ask those who depend on the bay.

Their water has been taken away and they are losing their economic survival.

Meanwhile, city dwellers fill pools, water lawns and golf courses. However, even if we turn all of those uses off right now, there still would not be enough to help those dependent on the bays or the farmers.

If this was happening on a ranch to deer or cattle, the analysis would be too many animals to fit the carrying capacity and the solution would be to lower the numbers. What politician will have the honesty and strength to stand up and say we are full, no more room in this state, or at least the western 2/3's?



Population control.... very true

but people are living longer and having more kids.. they gota go somewere..


Yep, and unfortunately, too many of those super populating the place are the uneducated and ignorant. Too many them are getting a check from the system because they choose to not do anything productive to contribute. There are more not contributing all the time and too few of us who are. And our numbers are dwindling.


While that is the real root problem, I was thinking more of our state actively recruiting businesses and people to move here with promises of no property taxes for umpteen years so I can pay for them, but yes, you are correct.
Posted By: therancher

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/11/15 01:22 PM

I don't hunt waterfowl but I do hunt doves and quail. When doves are flying in low on the horizon from the direction of a setting or rising sun their color is not discernable. They are just black shapes that are in fact easily identifiable as doves (by shape and flight pattern).

It would really complicate dove hunting if there was an endangered species that had the same form and flight pattern. Sandhills are in fact the same shape as WC's. I've never seen them fly close, but I would assume that they have a similar flight pattern as WC's.

Also, it most definitely IS okay to hunt Sandhills where WC's exist, because they can and do rest in areas on the way to and from the refuge during migration.

Now, I'm not saying that IF it was shot by a hunter, that he/she doesn't know they shot AT it. Because even if it was a mistake shot at a black form, the bird would have turned and given them the opportunity to see it's plumage. What I AM saying is that it MIGHT have been an honest mistake somewhere up the country by a legal Sandhill hunter who could have been relieved that they "missed". When in fact they put a pellet or two in the bird that lead to it's death down the migration route a week or so later.

That idiot lady who said it's "unforgivable" needs to learn some critical thinking skills. There are definitely ways it's forgivable.

Not sure why our resident lawyer didn't point this out.
Posted By: Navasot

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/11/15 02:21 PM

Main thing is I don't get how the law is going to prosecute someone so hard for making a mistake when in real life its everyone's fault.... that one bird didn't decide the fait of the species.... human progression did. So before anyone starts pointing fingers may turn it around and check yourself
Posted By: kry226

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/11/15 03:43 PM

Originally Posted By: therancher
I don't hunt waterfowl but I do hunt doves and quail. When doves are flying in low on the horizon from the direction of a setting or rising sun their color is not discernable. They are just black shapes that are in fact easily identifiable as doves (by shape and flight pattern).

It would really complicate dove hunting if there was an endangered species that had the same form and flight pattern. Sandhills are in fact the same shape as WC's. I've never seen them fly close, but I would assume that they have a similar flight pattern as WC's.

Also, it most definitely IS okay to hunt Sandhills where WC's exist, because they can and do rest in areas on the way to and from the refuge during migration.

Now, I'm not saying that IF it was shot by a hunter, that he/she doesn't know they shot AT it. Because even if it was a mistake shot at a black form, the bird would have turned and given them the opportunity to see it's plumage. What I AM saying is that it MIGHT have been an honest mistake somewhere up the country by a legal Sandhill hunter who could have been relieved that they "missed". When in fact they put a pellet or two in the bird that lead to it's death down the migration route a week or so later.

That idiot lady who said it's "unforgivable" needs to learn some critical thinking skills. There are definitely ways it's forgivable.

Not sure why our resident lawyer didn't point this out.


Originally Posted By: Navasot
Main thing is I don't get how the law is going to prosecute someone so hard for making a mistake when in real life its everyone's fault.... that one bird didn't decide the fait of the species.... human progression did. So before anyone starts pointing fingers may turn it around and check yourself


Both great posts. up
Posted By: rifleman

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/12/15 12:38 AM

Originally Posted By: Navasot
Main thing is I don't get how the law is going to prosecute someone so hard for making a mistake when in real life its everyone's fault.... that one bird didn't decide the fait of the species.... human progression did. So before anyone starts pointing fingers may turn it around and check yourself


I checked, I haven't don't anything to those birds. Now the USACE has, but that's a Fed on Fed crime.
Posted By: sparrish8

Re: Whooping Crane Shot - Reward - 02/13/15 12:34 AM

Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
A lot more consitant actually


Weve had 15 inches if rain in houston in dec. And jan.so i think it depends on what part of the state your in.

But overall we will never catch up on our consumption, I know alot about this as a licensed irrigator, 60% of water used in the City of Houston is through irrigation and they love it because they make alot of $. The Tceq just realized this was a problem in the last 10 years and changed the laws in 2011 but they do not have the ability to enforce them. People need to stop hiring unlicensed illegals that dont know how to actually design systems not to waste water and that will be a big step. Also new smart ET controllers are the wave of the future along with southwestern style scapes.
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