UPDATE: Game Warden Run In

I got in contact with Captain Canan with the Texas Parks and Wildlife, he was an absolute stand up guy. I explained to him what happened and he discussed why their may have been confusion and how to go about fixing/avoiding the situation in the future. The situation has been resolved and my faith in the Texas Parks and Wildlife is restored! I hope we all take a positive out of this and remember to carry our HE cards with our hunting license. Thanks to all for the encouragement and I hope everybody gets a monster this year and more importantly stays safe!

Glad to hear it got worked out

Good deal and can you share Mr. Canan's expertise on why there may have been confusion?

X2 what was the confusion?

Thank you for handling it right and not backing down!

Great how it turned out!

Are you paying the ticket?

Explain if you would. What if the old man who lives on my place is filling feeders for me and doesn't have a hunting license? He does not hunt and is a groundskeeper. This is our agreement for him to stay there.

X3 on confusion

Thank you for the update. I'm glad to hear it ended positively.

That would be a good question to call up your local game warden and ask him. Let us know what you find out.

Here is where you can find how to contact the local Game Warden. Nothing like going straight to the source.

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/warden/?display=true

Glad it worked out.

X2

That was quick also. Pretty impressed with both parties

Very good. If you could clarify what the exact law is, it could be helpful. If you are filling feeders during or outside of hunting season, do you have to have your license on you as well? If you are at the gas station wearing camo, do you have to carry your license 365 days a year because they could ask if you hunted this year and your license could be at home since that was 4 months ago? Sounds like it.

It's amazing what can happen when you pick up the phone and actually work on something vs just moan and complain.

Charlie

X4 on the confusion....

I'm still confused as to how you can legally get a ticket, and where any confusion can come from, for not having a HSC on your person when you are not actually hunting.

That is no different than the game warden giving you a ticket for having lead shot on you when you are dove hunting simply because it's during waterfowl season as well. If you are not in the act of actual violation of any law or statute, you cannot get a citation.

tis like on first lease was on that had hogs. Legally ya can hunt hogs 24-7-365 asked GW during general deer season about the Law of hunting hogs at night. His responce, if he gets a call of shooting after sundown their better be a dead hog. did my night hog hunten after deer season, so not to mess up the others. play lazer-tag at night for hogs whin they show up on cams. GW shows up here, he can search all he wants. i've let deer that are legal ta shoot feed & not fired a round.

Once he showed the GW his license that was missing a buck tag gave proof that he had been hunting at some point. Having been hunting he had to show proof that he had HE. If he had said he didn't have a hunting license on him there would have been no proof that he had been hunting at any point therefore would not have gotten the ticket. He didn't have to be hunting at that particular time, probable cause came when he provided proof (hunting license missing a tag) that he did in fact hunt at some point this season. Texas law says you have to have HE to hunt if you were born after a certain date. Without a card to show HE, the GW has to assume he didn't have it when he hunted and killed the buck earlier in the season. Simple solution, provide proof of having taken HE and ticket dismissed.

Assumption is not a reason to issue a citation. Furthermore, proof of Hunter Ed. certification is only required when hunting, not filling feeders, not checking game games. There is a distinct and recognizable difference between the act of hunting and making preparations for a hunt as in the case of the OP.

I wonder how he killed that first deer then

Think he skipped your post.

I didn't skip a post. Apparently, you believe I'm missing something. Speak on it.

So basically they just waste ink printing the HE # on a license?

I believe he said his HE was from another state. My HE# is not on my license so no ink wasted there!

Maybe wrong choice of words then. The GW doesn't have or see at the time that he has taken HE. He plainly has hunted and killed a deer as proven by his license therefore has to provide proof of having completed HE.

I agree with you up to a point. However, proof of H.E. certification or deferral is only required to be on your person while hunting. He was not hunting when contacted by the GW. I'll leave it at that.

How did he kill that deer when he wasn't hunting?

There is no way we know the totality of the circumstances as viewed by the officer at the time of the issuance of the citation/summons. And he can't legally come on here and defend his actions. The OP seemed happy with the results of the overall thing, I am not going to judge until the whole story is out, and in this case, it may never be!

what happened to the original post? I cant go back and see the responses to my post or any of the others?

Poof.

Canan is a good guy. He was a neighbor when he was on the Johnson County beat. Glad it got ironed out.

It got out of hand.

Am I the only boy who has lost IQ points trying to keep up with this debacle?

Based on the lame explanation by the OP after talking with the Game Warden Captain, he got what he deserved. If not, he would have been on here talking about how right he was and how the Game Warden is an idiot. My guess is he is paying for a ticket for hunting without a HE on person.

Due to general public outrage and vitriol in the original post towards Game Wardens and other law enforcement this needs to be addressed so people can rest assured the universe has not turned upside down.

There were actually two Game Wardens there. The OP who created the original thread had actually killed a very large buck during Archery season illegally. The large buck was unlawfully killed due to not having an Archery Stamp. The harvest log was also improperly filled out and marked as a spike. The meat was not seized, nor was the rack. Civil restitution which amounts to $6000+ has not been filed.

A No Archery Stamp citation & Hunter Education citation were issued along with a warning for a harvest log violation. There was no mention of having to drive and appear in person in Jack Co. They do have telephones and fax machines just like anywhere else.

Why someone would say otherwise is disappointing at best.

Hunter Education can be dismissed by simply showing proof you have already taken the class or even successfully taking the class after the fact.
Out of State Hunter Education numbers will not print out on a Texas license. If you want the HE numbers on your license you must take a Texas course for that to happen (which a completely online course is available for adults).

OK, that sounds "official" for some kind of reason, may be my LEO background, but that is too concise to be rhetoric. If true, it is severely disappointing.

I completely disagree. The OP didn't even have a firearm on his person, or in his truck. There is no act of hunting going on. He was filling his feeders. Whether or not he had any or all of his tags gone is completely irrelevant to the situation as described by the OP. He was not in the process of hunting - which is where the law begins and ends with respect to needing a license an HSC on your person (or your number printed on your license).

To make an analogy to your statement - this ticket would be like a LEO walking up to you in the parking lot of your local grocery store while you are loading your groceries in the back seat of your truck, then deciding that since you have a license and a truck, you have sped at some point in time and therefore decides to write you a ticket for speeding - speeding that he only assumes has happened but has zero proof of - while you are in the act of breaking exactly zero laws.

And if the OP had stated he didn't have his license on him, what is to stop the GW from making an assumption that the OP didn't have a license and was therefore poaching? Would you not agree that such a ticket would be illegal and unwarranted? How would that be any different than the assumption that the OP was hunting without all of the proper paperwork on him? Honestly, the two tickets principally would be exactly the same.

It sounds simple to just say "well, show up with your proof that you are innocent of this charge and everything will be dismissed". There are a couple of problems with that mentality:

1. The burden of proof is on the State, not the OP. It is up to the State (GW) to prove that the OP was actually violating a law. The OP was not violating any law at any time because he was filling his feeders during deer season. There is no law or statute that says you cannot fill feeders during deer season, and there is no law or statute that states that you must have a hunting license and your HSC on your person while you are filling feeders. Therefore by definition, the ticket was an illegal ticket that should never have been issued simply because there were zero laws or statues broken.

2. Simply going to court is not always as easy as it sounds. Doing so costs the OP time and money. Especially if the court in this case is not anywhere convenient to his residence. What if his lease was 8 hours away from his house? Now you are in a position of needing to use vacation days, or take no paid time off, to attend court for a ticket that was written when zero laws and statues were broken. And you know what? You don't get reimbursed for time off, fuel, food, etc. by the State when they do things like this. So you are still out money - and depending on your time availability and income, that could be a significant amount - regardless of whether the ticket was dismissed or not.

Great post, thank you sir.