Texas Hunting Forum

Anthrax

Posted By: don k

Anthrax - 07/01/14 10:48 PM

I see where a goat was tested positive in Kinney Co. First case this year.
Posted By: Sneaky

Re: Anthrax - 07/01/14 10:59 PM

Been a wet year.
Posted By: stxranchman

Re: Anthrax - 07/02/14 12:03 AM

Right time of the year and the rains hit at the right time also to connect to the two. I was thinking back in May when it started to rain in those areas it might start up around July 4th or so. If it is getting dry after a good wet spell this time of the year it is going to show up.
Posted By: JMalin

Re: Anthrax - 07/02/14 06:14 AM

should be interesting. never had outbreaks that I'm aware of on our Edwards county place.
Posted By: dawaba

Re: Anthrax - 07/02/14 11:28 AM

Originally Posted By: JMalin
should be interesting. never had outbreaks that I'm aware of on our Edwards county place.


In 1975, during my senior year in vet school, the Texas weather situation was similar to this year. There was a big outbreak of Anthrax that year with most of the cases centered around the SW Hill Country (Rock Springs) and Falls County (Chilton up to Mart).

The Anthrax outbreak, along with widespread rumors of unknown cults mutilating cattle and sheep, provided the most excitement for us that year.
Posted By: stxranchman

Re: Anthrax - 07/02/14 11:53 AM

There was a really bad outbreak north of Bracketville in '86 (? year, I think). I had a friend who had just bought a place and went up around this time of the year and found a lot of dead deer. I know of a ranch just southwest of Carta Valley that lost almost every deer that same year. and it was 8,000+ acres in size.
I knew the guy managing the 8,000+ acre ranch from the 90's till early 2000's. There were a couple of outbreaks during that time frame. He had been doing his own personal research work during that time with an oral vaccination program and burning of every carcass on the ranch he would find. He was friends with Dr. Don Davis at A&M and kept in touch with him about what he was doing during the whole time period. His records showed that even in huge out-break years his losses were the same or even a bit less than his average year. He had a routine he did to take care of burning the carcass and cleansing of area around where he burned the carcass. He had come up with a method of adding the oral vaccine to the outside of deer pellets to feed the dosage monthly to the deer herd. Before the ranch sold he wrote a paper on his results and records he had.
Posted By: Icedown12pk

Re: Anthrax - 07/02/14 05:20 PM

Hope we don't start seeing more of it pop up.
Posted By: gary roberson

Re: Anthrax - 07/02/14 06:18 PM

Carta Valley is the capitol of Anthrax most years. I have seen ranches where almost every deer was killed and it seems that the mature deer are the first to go. Ranches within a 50 mile radius can have problems. Not sure how much it has rained down there but drought conditions make the situation worse.
Adios,
Gary
Posted By: jim1961

Re: Anthrax - 07/02/14 06:36 PM

Heading to the area tomorrow. Hope that we don't find an outbreak.
Posted By: nsmike

Re: Anthrax - 07/02/14 07:40 PM

Originally Posted By: gary roberson
Carta Valley is the capitol of Anthrax most years. I have seen ranches where almost every deer was killed and it seems that the mature deer are the first to go. Ranches within a 50 mile radius can have problems. Not sure how much it has rained down there but drought conditions make the situation worse.
Adios,
Gary

It's not a circular area, it's a triangle, Uvalde, Ozona, and Eagle Pass, it's also known as the, Anthrax Endemic Zone, cases occur most years with periodic outbreaks, let's hope it's not an outbreak.
Posted By: TGalyon1

Re: Anthrax - 07/03/14 12:11 PM

Hunted South of Ozona 3k acres of 30k ranch for 11 years. Had it 3 times while on the ranch. Rancher lost 3/4 of cattle and almost all his sheep the last time. The deer heard was all but gone due to it.

You will know it when it hits
Posted By: therancher

Re: Anthrax - 07/05/14 02:31 PM

There won't be a bad outbreak this year. The most important vector is not in place.
Posted By: Wilhunt

Re: Anthrax - 07/05/14 03:47 PM

And what is the most important vector sir.
Posted By: Sneaky

Re: Anthrax - 07/05/14 03:55 PM

Originally Posted By: therancher
There won't be a bad outbreak this year. The most important vector is not in place.


Which is?
Posted By: therancher

Re: Anthrax - 07/05/14 04:43 PM

Originally Posted By: Sneaky
Originally Posted By: therancher
There won't be a bad outbreak this year. The most important vector is not in place.


Which is?


It's my painful experience that a quick hot dry up after a wet spell are just 2 of the big requirements for a bad outbreak. I have a lot of hands on experience with it (I fed many tons of antibiotic laced feed too).

But what I learned by observation was that while you have some anthrax almost every year in the "hot" zones, it's never real bad unless it's accompanied by a big population spike of bloodsucking flies. In 2000 (my worst year ever), deer flies and most of all horse flies were thick as fleas.

While one or a few bites probably won't transmit it, if an animal is constantly getting bit like deer and livestock are, theyre gonna be prone to being infected if anthrax spores are blooming and infecting a few host animals that have been bit by those same flies.

Unless I just haven't seen it (I don't have ranches in the hot zones anymore), there hasn't been a lot of deer and horse flies this year. I have places south, north, and east of that area and haven't seen abnormally high fly numbers on any of those places.
Posted By: therancher

Re: Anthrax - 07/05/14 04:49 PM

Originally Posted By: JMalin
should be interesting. never had outbreaks that I'm aware of on our Edwards county place.
Sooner or later you probably will unless you are really east of rock springs. Campwood, and carta valley (as some have said) can have some really bad years and it reaches to rock springs from the west and south.
Posted By: Sneaky

Re: Anthrax - 07/05/14 05:01 PM

Interesting. I hope you're right. I'd hate to see such a wet year wasted with anthrax.
Posted By: therancher

Re: Anthrax - 07/05/14 05:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Sneaky
Interesting. I hope you're right. I'd hate to see such a wet year wasted with anthrax.


I may be wrong, but that's my experience. That said, unless I start seeing a big spike in blood suckers, I'd be willing to bet a lot of cash that we'll only hear about a few isolated cases.
Posted By: nsmike

Re: Anthrax - 07/05/14 05:29 PM

It doesn't affect Texas but North Dakota reported an anthrax case. Possibly tight vaccine supplies would be a concern.
Posted By: DesertHunting

Re: Anthrax - 07/05/14 05:42 PM

therancher - I beleive you're right this year. The conditions have not been right for an outbreak. It's been 3 weeks since our last good rain with mild increases in temps (mid to low 90's with nights still getting into the hi 60's). Vegitation is lush but beginning to show sign of water needs, but I believe it's more from the high winds. Plus there has been a low fly pop. What is concerning me is the very hi tick pop this year. Our 10 section ranch is across the fence from one that has a reported history of anthrax, but no outbreaks in the last several years.
Posted By: conifer

Re: Anthrax - 07/05/14 06:21 PM

Anthrax is NOT transmitted by insect bites. It is only transmitted by wound inoculation/direct contact with an infected animal, or inhalation of spores.
Posted By: nsmike

Re: Anthrax - 07/05/14 07:13 PM

Originally Posted By: conifer
Anthrax is NOT transmitted by insect bites. It is only transmitted by wound inoculation/direct contact with an infected animal, or inhalation of spores.

You missed Ranchers point! When there are high numbers of biting flies, there are high numbers of wound sites, that can get inoculated. The combination of high spore counts with a high number of wound sites increases the rate of transmission. Once you start having animals infected they shed spores increasing the spore count. it builds upon itself, take out the high number of wound sites, you greatly reduce the transmission rate.
Posted By: stxranchman

Re: Anthrax - 07/05/14 08:00 PM

Originally Posted By: therancher
Originally Posted By: Sneaky
Interesting. I hope you're right. I'd hate to see such a wet year wasted with anthrax.


I may be wrong, but that's my experience. That said, unless I start seeing a big spike in blood suckers, I'd be willing to bet a lot of cash that we'll only hear about a few isolated cases.

Biting flies are what my friends watched for also. Biting flies can transmit the disease from one animal to another on severe outbreaks it not the mode most likely for it. Also non-biting blow-flies feeding dead carcasses can contaminate vegetation around dead a carcass allowing other animals to feed on on the vegetation is far more likely. My buddy used to burn the carcass on the site and then spray the area of vegetation around the site so animals would not eat it.
Posted By: dawaba

Re: Anthrax - 07/05/14 09:11 PM

Inoculation in open wounds is a very minor route of anthrax infection. Far more commonly, the bacillus enters the body through inhalation or ingestion. It can also enter the body through intact undamaged skin.

Flies aren't a specific vector of anthrax, but they can physically acquire the spores from walking and feeding on an infected animal. Then they can alight on a healthy animal and mechanically transmit the spores. And we think that very often, flies with spores on them can deposit the spores on blades of grass. And when cattle eat the grass, they get anthrax.

It is possible that the same weather conditions that favor an anthrax outbreak--a rainy warm spell followed by a dry period--may also cause a fly explosion, but I don't think there is a direct cause-effect relationship between flies and anthrax.

You may recall the domestic terrorist events lately where crazies have sent packages of anthrax spores in envelopes to politicians and judges. A few mail sorters even got sick and died. The spores entered the body via inhalation or ingestion.

It's hard to predict or explain when or where an anthrax outbreak will occur. Like Godzilla who sleeps for decades only to wake up and destroy a couple cities, anthrax spores remain dormant for years or centuries, only to suddenly erupt and cause havoc. Then just as quickly, the bacterium goes dormant again.
Posted By: JMalin

Re: Anthrax - 07/06/14 12:01 AM

Originally Posted By: therancher
Originally Posted By: JMalin
should be interesting. never had outbreaks that I'm aware of on our Edwards county place.
Sooner or later you probably will unless you are really east of rock springs. Campwood, and carta valley (as some have said) can have some really bad years and it reaches to rock springs from the west and south.


We're only three or four miles down 674 from where it intersects with 377. As the crow flies, probably five miles SW of Rocksprings. Guess we should really look into treating our protein feed. Where does one get the antibiotics and go about treating feed? And how often is it necessary to feed antibiotic laced pellets to prevent losing animals?
Posted By: therancher

Re: Anthrax - 07/06/14 06:50 AM

Originally Posted By: JMalin
Originally Posted By: therancher
Originally Posted By: JMalin
should be interesting. never had outbreaks that I'm aware of on our Edwards county place.
Sooner or later you probably will unless you are really east of rock springs. Campwood, and carta valley (as some have said) can have some really bad years and it reaches to rock springs from the west and south.


We're only three or four miles down 674 from where it intersects with 377. As the crow flies, probably five miles SW of Rocksprings. Guess we should really look into treating our protein feed. Where does one get the antibiotics and go about treating feed? And how often is it necessary to feed antibiotic laced pellets to prevent losing animals?

Lyssy and Eckels mixed it for me and my neighbors. Our recipe came from a doc in Oklahoma.
Posted By: therancher

Re: Anthrax - 07/06/14 06:57 AM

Originally Posted By: conifer
Anthrax is NOT transmitted by insect bites. It is only transmitted by wound inoculation/direct contact with an infected animal, or inhalation of spores.


You should really google "horse fly mouth parts". It's a direct blood transfer when a horse fly bites a host animal and then bites a healthy animal.
Posted By: therancher

Re: Anthrax - 07/06/14 07:16 AM

Originally Posted By: dawaba
Inoculation in open wounds is a very minor route of anthrax infection. Far more commonly, the bacillus enters the body through inhalation or ingestion. It can also enter the body through intact undamaged skin.

Flies aren't a specific vector of anthrax, but they can physically acquire the spores from walking and feeding on an infected animal. Then they can alight on a healthy animal and mechanically transmit the spores. And we think that very often, flies with spores on them can deposit the spores on blades of grass. And when cattle eat the grass, they get anthrax.

It is possible that the same weather conditions that favor an anthrax outbreak--a rainy warm spell followed by a dry period--may also cause a fly explosion, but I don't think there is a direct cause-effect relationship between flies and anthrax.

You may recall the domestic terrorist events lately where crazies have sent packages of anthrax spores in envelopes to politicians and judges. A few mail sorters even got sick and died. The spores entered the body via inhalation or ingestion.

It's hard to predict or explain when or where an anthrax outbreak will occur. Like Godzilla who sleeps for decades only to wake up and destroy a couple cities, anthrax spores remain dormant for years or centuries, only to suddenly erupt and cause havoc. Then just as quickly, the bacterium goes dormant again.


Yeah I know they're not "recognized" as a specific vector, I'm just saying that I've seen two major outbreaks of anthrax and about 150 "perfect storm" wet/hot/dry spell cycles (think about it, in the hot zones ALL non winter wet spells are followed by a quick drying warm up).

During the two outbreaks, the horse flies numbers were incredible. In the 148 other wet/hot/dry cycles you couldn't hardly find a horse fly.

It might not be recognized by the scientific community. But I recognize it.
Posted By: John Humbert

Re: Anthrax - 07/06/14 07:07 PM

Unfortunately, most of the outbreaks of anthrax in places like Val Verde county are never reported and never become statistics. I learned this the hard way. Ranches/ranchers in the area will not talk about it, acknowledge it, or will give vague and misleading information.

One ranch hand who was feeling talkative educated me. He said they find dead animals all the time. Even when finding multiple animals that were clearly the victims of Anthrax, they simply burn them and are given strict orders not to talk or disclose it. That way, owners, ramrods, or lease managers can "honestly" say they don't know of any anthrax outbreaks - because until they are reported, researched and verified - "who knows what those animals died of - anybody's guess".


Posted By: jim1961

Re: Anthrax - 07/08/14 08:20 PM

All over our 6000 acres this last week. No carcasses found. So far so good. We are on 674. Keeping our fingers crossed
Posted By: therancher

Re: Anthrax - 07/09/14 03:16 PM

Originally Posted By: jim1961
All over our 6000 acres this last week. No carcasses found. So far so good. We are on 674. Keeping our fingers crossed


Were there a lot of deer/horse/biting flies? By a lot I mean an abnormally high amount that you would notice.
Posted By: therancher

Re: Anthrax - 07/09/14 03:26 PM

Originally Posted By: John Humbert
Unfortunately, most of the outbreaks of anthrax in places like Val Verde county are never reported and never become statistics. I learned this the hard way. Ranches/ranchers in the area will not talk about it, acknowledge it, or will give vague and misleading information.

One ranch hand who was feeling talkative educated me. He said they find dead animals all the time. Even when finding multiple animals that were clearly the victims of Anthrax, they simply burn them and are given strict orders not to talk or disclose it. That way, owners, ramrods, or lease managers can "honestly" say they don't know of any anthrax outbreaks - because until they are reported, researched and verified - "who knows what those animals died of - anybody's guess".





I can assure you that when there is an "outbreak" it's not "concealable" by ranch hands/ranchers/outfitters trying to cover it up. It is very obvious when an area loses 80-90% of their animals. Word of mouth from hunters and today on social media has helped spread the news.

I think what he might have been referring to is normal anthrax annual mortality. Every year in the anthrax endemic zones there are deaths from anthrax. Not enough to significantly affect populations, but they occur nonetheless.

Hiding that is relatively easy but it really has no effect on hunting.
Posted By: John Humbert

Re: Anthrax - 07/09/14 03:53 PM

Originally Posted By: therancher
Originally Posted By: John Humbert
Unfortunately, most of the outbreaks of anthrax in places like Val Verde county are never reported and never become statistics. I learned this the hard way. Ranches/ranchers in the area will not talk about it, acknowledge it, or will give vague and misleading information.

One ranch hand who was feeling talkative educated me. He said they find dead animals all the time. Even when finding multiple animals that were clearly the victims of Anthrax, they simply burn them and are given strict orders not to talk or disclose it. That way, owners, ramrods, or lease managers can "honestly" say they don't know of any anthrax outbreaks - because until they are reported, researched and verified - "who knows what those animals died of - anybody's guess".





I can assure you that when there is an "outbreak" it's not "concealable" by ranch hands/ranchers/outfitters trying to cover it up. It is very obvious when an area loses 80-90% of their animals. Word of mouth from hunters and today on social media has helped spread the news.

I think what he might have been referring to is normal anthrax annual mortality. Every year in the anthrax endemic zones there are deaths from anthrax. Not enough to significantly affect populations, but they occur nonetheless.

Hiding that is relatively easy but it really has no effect on hunting.


theRancher, listen to this and decide for yourself.

The place - Val Verde country, Brewer Ranch, 2009-2010, mid July. Group of hunters leasing the area and have been feeding, managing for a couple of year. They have a good crop of deer, high numbers (for the area), and have been tracking deer via game cams during the summer.

Over the course of just 1 week - all animals disappear from game cams. No animals seen, where they had been consistently getting pictures of dozens of deer for months. They question rancher/manager, no one knows anything. As the season progresses, no one hunting sees any animals all season.

After season, it leaks out that big anthrax hit on that ranch and neighboring property - 90% or more of all animals are wiped out. The lessors check into it and find that indeed there was an outbreak - but it was never reported to any authority.

The following year I am suckered into leasing. Go all year feeding, scouting, and running cams. Only 3-4 deer are ever seen. Ask about it (since I was shown pics of all these trophy deer from past couple of years). Rancher, ramrod, lease manager all tell me "just wait, they'll come out in a few months", "just wait, they'll come out of the woodwork when we get rain", "just wait, they'll come out the woodwork when it gets cool", and my favorite "We saw over a 100 deer driving in".

Nothing happens. Spend 30+ days on the property during season, only saw two live deer - and two merino sheep. (Did see plenty of hogs though). Even went so far as to spend several nights driving around on the roads, highways with a spotlight trying to find any deer. Never saw ANY. Even did a helicopter fly over - only saw 11 deer total over a LARGE area (thousands of acres). I should mention that once we got out of the effected area, we did see hundreds!

Started checking around myself. Finally got folks, neighbors and feed guys, to talk about the big kill that happened. Even had a ranch work take me to a pile of bones on a neighboring pasture where he and others burned animals.

Went back to rancher and lease manager and confronted them. They were vague and misleading in their comments. Saying things like "I don't KNOW of any anthrax outbreak", and "there are no official reports", etc. And there wasn't - go back and check online, you won't see any reports filed. Talked with Border Patrol one evening - he confirmed he saw folks collecting and burning carcasses - lots of carcasses. Game warden said he knew of it by word of mouth, it was "common" knowledge - but nothing official.

Think I'm making this up? The prior lessors of the property are folks right here on THF. Go back a couple of years and search reports - and the whole kill off is well documented. Hear it from someone besides me, and who has all the details. Then judge for yourself.

If there are no official reports filed - then it just didn't happen, right?

And just something to consider. Out that way, between Pandale and Juno, it is VERY remote and mostly badlands. There is no infrastruture for miles. Like you have to go more than 50 miles (as the crow flies) to get to a store, gas, water, etc. There is no incidental traffic. It is VERY easy to conceal just about anything that happens. Yes, word of mouth will leak out - eventually. But official reports - it just doesn't happen.
Posted By: therancher

Re: Anthrax - 07/09/14 05:20 PM

VERY familiar with that area and the remoteness. Owned over 7,000 acres out there just east of the Devils river starting in 1996. I sold out in 2006 after suffering through the 2001 outbreak.

It sounds like the Brewer ranch had a very localized outbreak and that it was severe.

A question, did you know the hunters, and did they tell you about what you described in the first part of the post? If so, it would seem word of mouth actually did overcome the efforts of the rancher/outfitter to hide the outbreak.

That outbreak was not successfully hidden though. Just googled it and came up with this. http://discussions.texasbowhunter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=390003

So, it was (or is now at least) common knowledge that the Brewer had anthrax in 2009.

"Official reporting" is not required if only wildlife are involved. The only "official" requirements are concerning livestock. Any ranchers in that area that don't vaccinate for anthrax deserve to lose their animals.

I definitely sympathize with you and anyone who loses their deer like that. I know exactly how painful it is.

When I bought my places out there, there was no requirement to note that "this ranch is located in an area that is known to have periodic anthrax problems". By the time I sold out, that disclaimer was showing up on all ranch contracts.

Hopefully hunters will see stuff like this thread and do some due diligence in those areas.


Posted By: Sneaky

Re: Anthrax - 07/09/14 05:34 PM

I leased a pasture on the Brewer in 2012. Hunted hard and saw 6 deer all season. I did kill two good bucks, but I got lucky. Anthrax is surely a problem there. We would see dozens of deer through Crocket County on the way there. When you hit the Val Verde line, it was like someone turned a switch off. Saw more illegals than deer at that point. I now have a lease in Crocket County. It's not immune from outbreaks, but I did a better job of looking into it, and they haven't had any issues recently.
Posted By: JMalin

Re: Anthrax - 07/09/14 11:17 PM

Originally Posted By: therancher
Originally Posted By: jim1961
All over our 6000 acres this last week. No carcasses found. So far so good. We are on 674. Keeping our fingers crossed


Were there a lot of deer/horse/biting flies? By a lot I mean an abnormally high amount that you would notice.


I think he was implying that he traveled all around his six thousand acres and didn't any signs. At least, that's what I'm hoping.
Posted By: therancher

Re: Anthrax - 07/10/14 12:50 PM

Originally Posted By: JMalin
Originally Posted By: therancher
Originally Posted By: jim1961
All over our 6000 acres this last week. No carcasses found. So far so good. We are on 674. Keeping our fingers crossed


Were there a lot of deer/horse/biting flies? By a lot I mean an abnormally high amount that you would notice.


I think he was implying that he traveled all around his six thousand acres and didn't any signs. At least, that's what I'm hoping.


I think so too. My point is, if he didn't see an abnormally high population of biting flies then not only is there no outbreak now, but there won't be one either.
Posted By: jim1961

Re: Anthrax - 07/10/14 03:51 PM

The horseflies and biting flies were very few
Posted By: TGalyon1

Re: Anthrax - 07/10/14 09:53 PM

Originally Posted By: therancher
Originally Posted By: Sneaky
Interesting. I hope you're right. I'd hate to see such a wet year wasted with anthrax.


I may be wrong, but that's my experience. That said, unless I start seeing a big spike in blood suckers, I'd be willing to bet a lot of cash that we'll only hear about a few isolated cases.


Its not causd by ticks
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/landwater/land/habitats/faq/diseases/disease7.phtml

Anthrax bacteria reside in the soil in many regions of Texas, but epizootics are more frequent in the counties mentioned above. During the warm summer months, when there are rapid changes in climatic conditions (alternating periods of rain and drought), spores of the bacterium can be found at the soil surface and on low-level vegetation where they are readily available for ingestion by livestock/wildlife. The incubation period is between 1 and 10 days. After the onset of clinical signs, livestock/wildlife die very rapidly, in as little as 3-4 hours. Clinical signs include depression, lethargy, and staggering; animals may try to get to water. Live animals often are not found. The first indication of an outbreak on an individual property typically is when carcasses are located. Often, the carcass will appear to be from an otherwise healthy-looking animal (no signs of prolonged illness).
Posted By: Sneaky

Re: Anthrax - 07/10/14 11:43 PM

I hope our deer don't get depressed.
Posted By: stxranchman

Re: Anthrax - 07/10/14 11:47 PM

Originally Posted By: TGalyon1
Originally Posted By: therancher
Originally Posted By: Sneaky
Interesting. I hope you're right. I'd hate to see such a wet year wasted with anthrax.


I may be wrong, but that's my experience. That said, unless I start seeing a big spike in blood suckers, I'd be willing to bet a lot of cash that we'll only hear about a few isolated cases.


Its not causd by ticks
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/landwater/land/habitats/faq/diseases/disease7.phtml

Anthrax bacteria reside in the soil in many regions of Texas, but epizootics are more frequent in the counties mentioned above. During the warm summer months, when there are rapid changes in climatic conditions (alternating periods of rain and drought), spores of the bacterium can be found at the soil surface and on low-level vegetation where they are readily available for ingestion by livestock/wildlife. The incubation period is between 1 and 10 days. After the onset of clinical signs, livestock/wildlife die very rapidly, in as little as 3-4 hours. Clinical signs include depression, lethargy, and staggering; animals may try to get to water. Live animals often are not found. The first indication of an outbreak on an individual property typically is when carcasses are located. Often, the carcass will appear to be from an otherwise healthy-looking animal (no signs of prolonged illness).

Think you need to re-read some of his posts on this thread. He never said anything about ticks.
Posted By: therancher

Re: Anthrax - 07/11/14 01:48 PM

Originally Posted By: stxranchman
Originally Posted By: TGalyon1
Originally Posted By: therancher
Originally Posted By: Sneaky
Interesting. I hope you're right. I'd hate to see such a wet year wasted with anthrax.


I may be wrong, but that's my experience. That said, unless I start seeing a big spike in blood suckers, I'd be willing to bet a lot of cash that we'll only hear about a few isolated cases.


Its not causd by ticks
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/landwater/land/habitats/faq/diseases/disease7.phtml

Anthrax bacteria reside in the soil in many regions of Texas, but epizootics are more frequent in the counties mentioned above. During the warm summer months, when there are rapid changes in climatic conditions (alternating periods of rain and drought), spores of the bacterium can be found at the soil surface and on low-level vegetation where they are readily available for ingestion by livestock/wildlife. The incubation period is between 1 and 10 days. After the onset of clinical signs, livestock/wildlife die very rapidly, in as little as 3-4 hours. Clinical signs include depression, lethargy, and staggering; animals may try to get to water. Live animals often are not found. The first indication of an outbreak on an individual property typically is when carcasses are located. Often, the carcass will appear to be from an otherwise healthy-looking animal (no signs of prolonged illness).

Think you need to re-read some of his posts on this thread. He never said anything about ticks.

Yep. I can see where he got confused since I just called the flies bloodsuckers in that post.

However, he also got confused and believed I said they "caused" anthrax. Which I never said nor implied.

Hopefully this scenario below will clarify what I believe:

In a normal year you have a few cases of anthrax (surely by now we all know those cases are "caused" by ingesting spores from a bloom). Once you have an infected host animal it's accepted fact that anthrax can be "transmitted" by sharing bodily fluids with an infected host animal.

What I believe is that biting flies (especially horse flies with their bladed mouthparts) can and do transmit the disease once a few animals are infected by the normal routes.

In 2000 or 2001 (the worst year I can remember) the horseflies were swarming the southwestern hill country in incredible numbers. The nature of flies is they bite one animal and then go to another. If there are enough flies to transmit lethal doses of the now blood born pathogen... Flies would explain the rapid spread of the disease in an "outbreak" (defined as an abnormally high anthrax mortality year) than any other vector IMO.

Key word is "vector"there galyon1 Vectors don't cause it, they just help spread it.
Posted By: txtrophy85

Re: Anthrax - 07/12/14 04:45 PM

I have never had to deal with anthrax on a property I've been on but it has been my understanding that grazing animals inhale/ingest the spors and become infected.

It has also been explained to me that animals can pass it to each other thru saliva, like at a protein feeder
Posted By: nsmike

Re: Anthrax - 07/12/14 07:47 PM

This was written about human transmission but it mostly applys
Cutaneous infection is by contact with tissues of animals (cattle, sheep, goats, horses, pigs and others) dying of the disease; possibly by biting flies that had partially fed on such animals; by contact with contaminated hair, wool, hides or products made from them, such as drums, brushes or rugs; or by contact with soil associated with infected animals or contaminated bone meal used in gardening. Inhalation anthrax results from inhalation of spores in risky industrial processes -- such as tanning hides and processing wool or bone -- where aerosols of B. anthracis spores may be produced. Intestinal and oropharyngeal anthrax arise from ingestion of contaminated undercooked meat; there is no evidence that milk from infected animals transmits anthrax. The disease spreads among grazing animals through contaminated soil and feed; among omnivorous and carnivorous animals through contaminated meat, bone meal or other feeds; and among wildlife from feeding on carcasses infected with anthrax. Accidental infections may occur among laboratory workers.
Posted By: therancher

Re: Anthrax - 07/13/14 02:42 AM

Originally Posted By: nsmike
This was written about human transmission but it mostly applys
Cutaneous infection is by contact with tissues of animals (cattle, sheep, goats, horses, pigs and others) dying of the disease; possibly by biting flies that had partially fed on such animals; by contact with contaminated hair, wool, hides or products made from them, such as drums, brushes or rugs; or by contact with soil associated with infected animals or contaminated bone meal used in gardening. Inhalation anthrax results from inhalation of spores in risky industrial processes -- such as tanning hides and processing wool or bone -- where aerosols of B. anthracis spores may be produced. Intestinal and oropharyngeal anthrax arise from ingestion of contaminated undercooked meat; there is no evidence that milk from infected animals transmits anthrax. The disease spreads among grazing animals through contaminated soil and feed; among omnivorous and carnivorous animals through contaminated meat, bone meal or other feeds; and among wildlife from feeding on carcasses infected with anthrax. Accidental infections may occur among laboratory workers.


I don't disagree with any of that. Except when people decide that the ONLY way grazing animals can get it is by grazing.

I'm telling you all from experience that the worst anthrax I've ever seen was when there were swarms of horseflies everywhere.

And while it says it's "possible" above for humans to contract it from biting flies... if you think about the mechanics for just a second you can understand that once a few animals get it (which is normal EVERY year in anthrax prone zones), if they get bit by TONS of flies (years when flies are epidemic), it greatly magnifies the risk of infection to animals.

Humans don't just stand there and let flies bite them. But animals can't slap them or get away from them. If you've ever watched a horse fly go after an animal you know that if you don't have arms or a LONG tail your pretty much gonna get bit tons of times.

Here's some more mechanics. What do you think is more efficient spreading it far and wide to most animals? Flies, or grazing on a few localized areas where a bloom of spores is occurring??

Yep. It's pretty plain to you if you live through it once or twice.

Again, there is no abnormal population explosion of biting flies this year. There will be no outbreaks. Just a few cases spread out over a large area.
Posted By: therancher

Re: Anthrax - 07/13/14 02:51 AM

Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
I have never had to deal with anthrax on a property I've been on but it has been my understanding that grazing animals inhale/ingest the spors and become infected.

It has also been explained to me that animals can pass it to each other thru saliva, like at a protein feeder


And since it's a blood born pathogen... sharing blood is probably even more effective than saliva.

Here's a pic of the blades in a horse fly's mouth. They don't just suck blood through a tube. They slice and dice your skin and then just lap up the blood out of the pool that forms.

According to one site I looked at 30 horse flies can drain about half a pint of blood in 6 hours.

https://www.google.com/search?q=horse+fly+mouthparts&rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS430&espv=2&tbm=isch&imgil=ZfmlGQBcChDLrM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcQwBaCEYbMuiN9xLQAwEo5EtQJtoWNV8GCWPyowX9rVyDS7aMK0%253B200%253B150%253B7jmKtavGxRELWM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.asktheexterminator.com%25252Fflies%25252FHorse_Fly.shtml&source=iu&usg=__Aa-QFGzY7HT-79mwIw1kuChmcTU%3D&sa=X&ei=cPLBU96FM-q-8QGH7ICgBQ&ved=0CCcQ9QEwBA&biw=1024&bih=634#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=u2OyKDwozIr46M%253A%3Bqxbq8Y3cso1_tM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fagsci.psu.edu%252Felearning%252Fcourse-samples%252Fent_202%252FLn_1%252Fimages%252F1-mouth9.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fagsci.psu.edu%252Felearning%252Fcourse-samples%252Fent_202%252FLn_1%252FL1_7.htm%3B333%3B250
Posted By: sillyhorses

Re: Anthrax - 07/14/14 12:26 AM

Just out at my place S.W. of Rocksprings on 674 last week. Not much for bugs of any sorts in the hills around my cabin. A few mosquitos, occasional "robber fly", not one deer fly or tick. And I was out in the bush working & sweaty, so would have noticed. In Canada & parts of the Midwest there is a nasty spore inhaled killer called Blastomychosis. A killer to even humans. I've had 2 dogs infected - not fun.
Posted By: Luke27

Re: Anthrax - 07/27/14 08:42 PM

Ive had 10 anthrax shots from my days in the Marine Corps. Not too worried about coming across it. If anyone is good, should be me
Posted By: therancher

Re: Anthrax - 07/28/14 05:47 AM

Don't worry... grin this wasn't a bad biting fly year. And guess what.. There was no outbreak... Imagine that..
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