Uvalde report

On news tonight. Few details but here are some highlights:

1. No LEO took control of the situation, the whole response was rudderless since no one took control
2. LEO knew from 911 dispatcher there were kids still alive but hurt in the classrooms, and LEOs standing outside the classroom stood by and tried to negotiate with shooter
3. LEO prior had attempted unsuccessfully to negotiate with shooter
4. School had inadequate safety features
5. Shooter had made several threats and none of the people who knew of them alerted authorities


I can not imagine beinf a parent of one of the killed knowing cops KNEW there were kids alive but hurt in the classroom while many LEO stood outside the door with armor and weapons and tried to talk to the shooter instead of taking him out. The 911 dispatch call to LEO came around 40 minutes in, and definitive action didn’t happen for at least another 30 minutes (IIRC).

How so many LEOs failed to operate the way they were trained is hard to fathom.

Concho, tomorrow is going to suck for you as that is [censored] and you know it. They failed

I found this interesting also.

"Burrows also said that there were many police officers who were at the elementary school and were being given false information".

"In fairness, there were many officers at that scene who were either denied access to the building, we're told, misinformation, some were even told false information. Some were told that the police chief of the consolidated school District was actually inside the room actually negotiating with the shooter, such that they did not know what was happening," Burrows said.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-uvalde-shooting-report-reveals-multiple-systemic-failiures

My large department just barely got everything under control at the bad one I was at. This was a much smaller city and the number of different agencies seems like it would help, but it just adds confusion due to comms being different and everyone having their own policies. They would have had a much better chance of getting it right with just one adequately staffed agency being involved.

The news report on WFAA did not mention that aspect. I have not seen anywhere to access the whole report, dont know we will.

I have no doubt there was a complete lack of effective communication since no one took command, no one would have set up effective communication command.

This is pretty much organization reaction to mass disaster 101, someone take control, and that person delegates communication, jobs, and creates “order”. I understand chaos and the effect of confusion, but how could someone not take charge and direct like a leader? That part seems really weird to me.

Firs thing that happens when there is a code in the hospital is a leader takes charge and lets everyone know. There is a reason why military has rank, the highest ranking person is in charge. Shouldn’t the same have happened with LEO here? I simply don’t understand how that didn’t happen almost immediately.

I guess we got to see what happens when there is a free for all….

The highest ranking person there was the ISD Chief. His decisions were apparently not correct.

We always kept command and control of any situation like this in our city regardless of who showed up, but we had the knowledge, experience and resources to deal with anything. No other agency was allowed to even be present until the scene was secure.

This was a small city agency who was not prepared, and just to make things even more confusing, multiple other agencies involved in an active scene.

who's the guy who got a boo boo on his head and ran away?

From what i saw, the chief of the ISD dept was inside? Maybe i am wrong or misunderstood what was said. Hard to be in charge when you are actively involved in the response. But one thing the report did say was the ISD chief specifically stated he was not in charge, which sounds like the problem. Maybe he should have been, maybe not, BUT, when others arrive and realize no one had effectively set up command, no one else stood up and did such a thing. No one wanted to lead, which is a failure of training and also of any mass crisis protocol.

It would he much easier to understand the failures IF the failures were simply due to inaccurate information or communication or even just bad decision making by the command, but knowing the response was a purely chaotic free for all makes this much harder to swallow. That simple fact violates every protocol for any crisis and all training that any dept performa for mass crisis events. That is what i don’t get. Were they totally unprepared or did they just panic and fail to follow their training?

Knowing the ISD had at least 40 lockdowns for police events due to illegal alien activity during the school year makes me think they simply panicked and didn’t follow training, because if they didn’t train for any type of mass crisis event then they were just plain stupid.

Doesn’t make anything any better, but those parents have a right to be very upset and not just at the dead shooter.

I added a “this” unless you intended a homosexual reference.

He will show up saying that this is not the official report...again.

I think he knows that he spoke/wrote hastily. End of the day no one wants their peers to be shone in that light.

Hopefully this tragedy brings about new trading programs not just for LEO’s but schools also

As I said on other occasions including when the information came out about two days after the tragedy occurred and our governor received false information: The response was not correct, the delay cost lives, everyone involved will have to live with their decisions from that day, and I refuse to condemn every officer at the scene that day. You guys can continue to bring up my name like a bunch of eight year olds, but I am never going to condemn the officers like some of you have done. Now if you all want to continue this debate go right ahead, please leave me out of it.

That’s a pretty normal reaction to check yourself after getting peppered with sheet rock at 3000 fps. Sometimes when you get shot , you don’t know you’re shot

Atleast he went down the hall

You brought the attention on yourself. You're such a whinny little _itch.

No, Today won't be a bad day for me, I wasn't at Uvalde when the shooting occurred and I would have reacted differently had I been there. I share no responsibility for the actions taken and the actions do not cast bad light on my profession like some of you apparently believe, the Uvalde actions do not reflect our training on active shooters. I stated as soon as the Abbott said he had false information that the response was not correct. Now act like grown ups and leave my name out of your conversations.

Excuse me for the edit, I'll take the high road here, Im sure the world doesn't want to watch a juvenile word match.....

I havent condoned any one, infact I have always said I will wait until ALL facts come out. I’ve been nothing but an observer in these threads. I still think that something good will come out of this tragedy, I pray that the increased training for schools and Leo’s never has to comes to fruition, but unfortunately history seems to repeat its self, next time I believe bad guy dies, with no other lives are lost.

Every friend I have that’s a Leo or retired Leo has said same thing. We will never know the whole truth but what truth is there will come out months later, that’s how investigations go. To speculate off news articles, video’s and press conferences is mental gymnastics at best. I believe this to be true. I haven’t watched a video or press release to date.

I no longer need any reports. I saw a video, with muted screams. This should have been over before the highest ranking person got there.

The two first guys were doing good. Obviously took on fire, maybe even got hit in the helmet and retreated. Which is understandable. But, you must make a plan and go back. Pretty quickly.

376 officers on the scene, 150 Border Patrol, 91 State Officers.....Apparently there was a swat commander (Lieutenant) inside the school.

Yep, you're dismissed. Have the week you deserve!

I don't need your permission to be here or post my opinion, please grow up.

I havent condoned any one, infact I have always said I will wait until ALL facts come out. I’ve been nothing but an observer in these threads. I still think that something good will come out of this tragedy, I pray that the increased training for schools and Leo’s never has to comes to fruition, but unfortunately history seems to repeat its self, next time I believe bad guy dies, with no other lives are lost.

Every friend I have that’s a Leo or retired Leo has said same thing. We will never know the whole truth but what truth is there will come out months later, that’s how investigations go. To speculate off news articles, video’s and press conferences is mental gymnastics at best. I believe this to be true. I haven’t watched a video or press release to date.
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I was more talking to you, rather than speaking about you. I was clarifying that I didn't misspeak or speak hastily, I meant every word I wrote. And I'm sure not the member wishing "Bad Karma" on people like a juvenile.

I was more talking to you, rather than speaking about you. I was clarifying that I didn't misspeak or speak hastily, I meant every word I wrote. And I'm sure not the member wishing "Bad Karma" on people like a juvenile.
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Guys i didn’t post this to get into word fights or pissin matches. That is below us as a group, so lets leave that off the table and discuss what is important, how doe we take this and make things better for the future?

Mandatory Alerrt training for LEO
Shields for all departments and for individual officers and schools
Individual officer hard plates

Supposedly one of the first two in was the SWAT commander

This is one of my questions I most want answered, if a swat commander was inside the scene, and he was one of the first inside, why did they switch from an active shooter situation to barricade situation? This doesn't have anything to do with lack of training, knowledge, protective shields, either someone told him to stand down, or this was worse than believed.....I heard the guy has resigned or lost his job, can anyone confirm that info?

For starters...before any LEO involvement, let's make these schools like TSA check points. Access controlled check points. All other access points are treated like emergency exits only. Doors need audible devices that alert someone when opened. Jeez...the shooter just walked in like he owned the place. We protect our airports so why can't we protect our schools with similar protocol???

I heard the chief was on leave


Who was the guy on the video throwing up his hands trying to keep the guys back from going towards 111 and 112?

I heard this morning that the Mayor of Uvalde has placed the Chief on administration leave at this time and that two officers have resigned. I did not hear what department or departments that the two officers were from.

I recently heard a interview with the male teacher who turned out to be a cousin of the police chief. In the interview I believe it said he was the only one that survived in his room that all 11 of his students were killed. He had questions as to why nothing was done to save his kids and the shooter dropped water and his phone on him to get him to move but since he didn’t he thought he was dead.

I agree 100%, and that is why i mentioned the school aspect of this. We need hardened schools. Period. The ability for someone to walk into a school thru a backdoor and “take over the place” is just bad safety management by the school.

There are several aspects that need discussed:
1 school
2. Shooter
3 leo response
4 teacher response- this is partly in the school response but i think it deserves its own category

Among others i am sure others will think about

Yeah, let’s make schools like prisons.

Way the schools are in my area. main double doored foyer entry points(meaning one door, foyer another locked door) . Cameras at every door. The none main doors are steel and alarmed with cameras also.

They arent playing. I’d pay more school taxes for more restrictive fencing around if I could

Even prisons have failures when security protocols are not followed or are disregarded.

I just built my last run of barb wire on a section of my perimeter, 1500'.

And it's to keep stray cattle out, not mine in, I don't have any. Same principle as fencing the schools off.

You should see a North Texas Boeing facility, with mostly servers. It would be very unhealthy to try and break in there. Every single school needs to be treated the same way.

All the security measures are great if they're adhered to instead of let's say...propping open an entry door!

It can't be sugar coated, this was a massive failure of law enforcement on the scene. Officers who failed to prioritize the children's lives over their own safety stood by while children died. Was every officer on the scene guilty of cowardice? No, of course not. But there were enough cowards there to paralyze the response. I am not anti-law enforcement or a liberal, but this was egregious behavior that needs to be addressed so that, hopefully, it won't be repeated.

Quoted from the report: “They failed to prioritize saving the lives of innocent victims over their own safety,”

We can harden schools until they are prisons but in the absence of hard tough officers to protect the children, this sort of massacre can probably not be prevented.

As has been mentioned....I like the idea of using retired people as a security asset in the schools. I know there would be many hurdles to make it happen with liability, training etc...but I see it as dayum sure worth a serious look at the feasibility of it.
If people are serious about tackling the issue...it can be done

https://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amend...r-school-shooter-before-attack-occurred/

There were egregious failures at the school level too. Not saying it would have stopped what was about to happen, but if the shooter had to go thru doors that are locked or shot thru windows, this would be very different.

Failures all around. Thats the point. There is no defining point of the finger, its like a fist full of failures. Sad deal.

As BOBO (in this thread) and others have said (previously) i am all for paying more to make sure schools are safer. Problem is NOT ONE of us believes any money we would pay would go toward safety. The schools themselves, more at the district level i am sure, have different priorities. We know the teachers union does not consider kids their charge, they consider teachers their charge and could not care less about the students. We know federal govt wont do anything since it isnt their job, and we know any federal money would be wasted on stuff not safety related.

There are a lot of cultures that need changed. Not even mentioning the way the marginalized kids are handled by society. The shooter was clearly a marginalized kid and all his warning signs were ignored.

Cowards

Good thing you were there to save the day......oh, wait......

I would have won Super Bowl III if they had just put me in the game......wait, I was at home setting in my arm chair.....

SMFH…

I believe he’d make excuses for a dirty cop also.

He, who?

It don’t matter Concho, I’m not gonna argue about any of this effed up situation. It’s a bad deal and looks as if the damage possibly could’ve been lightened to an extent. Sucks for all involved.

I agree.

after watching the video over a few times. Does it seem like the shooter had stopped shooting by the time the popo got in the hallway??? He did shoot at the cop who couldn't seem to get his body armor secured and got hit in the head by something. Did a bullet graze him? Piece of glass?

Was it basically "over" by this time?

No one was in charge.

It wasn’t over until he took his last sorry breath.

The majority of damage was done. The driving force was the extra active shots and knowing there are injuries. 1 stop the killing , 2 stop dying

I’m afraid by the number of rounds in the beginning there wasn’t much to save. We will probably never know

Lol, I hope you enjoyed eating your words for lunch while sitting on your moral high ground Concho. We told you weeks ago what was going to happen and now your shocked? have questions lol.

Agree there could still be kids bleeding out . Just a terrible thing

So, what would have happened if one of those Police Officers kid was in that classroom ???????????????????????????????????????????????

one lost his wife. He tried to save her but was detained.

Well then, it seems to me that "Someone" must have been in-charge. It wouldn't have made much difference to me, my kids, your kids, teachers.....I'm going in. If someone or several someones are stopping other officers from acting, then by definition they were in charge.

Well heck, I had no idea you could look into the future......I like basing my opinions and beliefs on real facts, but I can see where some just run off willy nilly making claims and then acting like a four years old with quotes like "I told you so." When did I write that I was shocked? Please stop making up lies.

no one gives a rats azz about your opinions or comments. go sit in the corner and shut your mouth!!!

Well heck, I had no idea you could look into the future......I like basing my opinions and beliefs on real facts, but I can see where some just run off willy nilly making claims and then acting like a four years old with quotes like "I told you so." When did I write that I was shocked? Please stop making up lies.
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no one gives a rats azz about your opinions or comments. go sit in the corner and shut your mouth!!!
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You repeatedly speak for others like you are someone of importance, maybe a narcissist personality I suppose.....You don t run anything here, so you should follow your own advice.

Nope, only speaking for myself. Now how about going to that corner seat as instructed?

No, I certainly don't take instructions from fly off the handle folks like you.

If “no one” cares about comments and opinions why does “one” come to a forum?

fo·rum

/ˈfôrəm/

noun
1.
a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.

Just another example of ignorance detesting truth.

Yes, sounds like what is currently happening in our country, we don't like what you are saying, so we will cancel your opinion or comment.....

So, news reports this morning somewhat clarified that the Lieutenant is on Administrative Leave and he was acting Uvalde Police Chief at the time of the shooting.....with a chief (ISD) and an acting chief (Uvalde Police) on the scene, who exactly did these guys believe was in charge? The SWAT Commander was apparently a Uvalde Sergeant and one of the officers hit by gunfire or flying debris. I apologize if this info is not correct, every time I read a news article the info seems to change.

I haven’t seen where any of the 300+ LOE’s are talking… Isn’t that strange?

No, not strange at all

It’s an ongoing case

I would think if I was part of that group, I wouldn't have much to say either.

There would probably be negative consequences if any of them did speak without the authority to do so. Especially if the comments were incorrect or did not align with dept policy.

JFK liked to use a quote that was already an old saying at the time that seems to apply here:
"Victory has a thousand fathers, but defeat is an orphan."
Sounds like no one wants to "own" being in charge of this debacle.

Slightly off topic, about making mistakes.

I had a trainer who when a new officer in 70s, got in a chase with a bank robber/kidnapper. The car crashed and the bad guy ran towards my trainer. My trainer opened up a 12 gauge on him. Turned out It was the victim he shot.

He told me his parents quit talking to him over it. He made me think about the impact of mistakes.

I’m pretty sure if I was in that hallway, my dad would quit talking to me. My mom for maybe 5-7 years.

I'm surprised none of them have resigned AND speaking out. I'm sure many have discovered they are not cut out for this line of work.

EXACTLY Big Group Of Candy Asses, they took the job and they wussed out in thr one serious time of need. If I’d been the cop who’s wife died I’d been stacking bodies myself and they’d consisted of everyone who tried to stop me from going in.. God himself couldn’t have kept me from finding a way in,,

I’ll patiently wait for Concho to say I’m mean, angry or crazy and my reply will be a simple yes. You mess with my wife or kid and I’ll kill whoever’s needed to get to them or die trying and worry about the consequences later.

Sounds pretty angry, but you have a right to your opinion. It is interesting that some of you cannot post without adding me to the conversation, had I thought this was the liberal news media and I would be verbally attacked or cancelled, I would have probably never joined.....who am I kidding, this is fun, not the topic, the bantering.

Bingo. Many on here are “liberals” in reverse. Same mentality, different agenda.

Being honest here I was simply busting your chops from your comment last week about me being an angry man When it comes to my family you have no idea how angry a man can get, matter of fact when it comes to any kid I’ll gladly kill whoever needs killed and sleep like a baby that night or die trying. Everyone has different dna and mines made up of I don’t give a F and with zero remorse of the bodies collected along the way. I’ll leave it at that,,,

I have nothing against you and I’m sure your a good guy so take my poking with laughter, we’re simply hard wired different and that’s ok, I respect everyone’s opinion regardless if it’s different than mine so don’t take offense to my comment toward you buddy.

I hear you I do. Very “valid” opinion.

My question is, why does your family warrant more value than the other families, the kids, or anyone else involved. What if your actions caused the harm or death of others involved? What if you saved yours, but caused the death of other innocents? Plus, you are going to “stack bodies” of anyone, innocents I assume, that stops you on YOUR agenda regardless of the greater good. Thanks in advance.

I think it's funny when someone says "I'm done with this thread" and comes back for 2 more pages.

Yes, well if you are talking about me, review the thread and count how many times my name is thrown into the conversation with negative comments, you guys are your own worst enemies if you want me to stop posting. Why is it any of your business or why do you care who posts, sounds like cancel culture at work again.

what makes you think it's about you. damn you think your somone special. get over yourself.

I said "if" and I am the only one I know of that said I was done with the thread.....maybe I missed something.

You're damn right! You make a great "speed" bag!

This lady should take a cue and STFU.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/mother-uvalde-shooter-lashes-out-victims-family