Uvalde update

https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-of...r-unlocked-shooting-officers-waited-keys

This crap is going to get real bad before it is all over. Lawyers are going to get rich. Some people need to at least get fired. Some need to have bad things done to them.

Disgraceful. Absolutely and utterly disgusting display of incompetence.

Couldn’t get past 3 paragraphs. Would be shocked if the chiefs house isn’t burned down by 5pm.

The incompetence of Uvalde Independent School District Chief Pete Arredondo is absolutely reprehensible. DPS Director Steven McCraw said the doors to the pair of classrooms where the students and teachers were killed were unlocked, but never checked by police as Arredondo continued to frantically search for a skeleton key to a door that could have been opened at any time, had anyone tried it.

So dozens of cops milling about in the hallways while the buffoon in charge was searching for keys to enter an unlocked classroom where children were being massacred.

"The officers had weapons, while the children had none. The officers had body armor, the children had none. The officers had training, the subject had none," McCraw said Tuesday. "One hour, 14 minutes and eight seconds. That’s how long the children waited, and the teachers waited, in Room 111 to be rescued. And while they waited, the on-scene commander waited for radio and rifles. And he waited for shields, and he waited for SWAT. Lastly, he waited for a key that was never needed."

I’ll wait for concho and his professional opinion to post before I jump to conclusions.

100% this.

FFOX News I'm NOT Disabling Ad Blocker.

Absolutely unacceptable.

The chief and the police inside are an absolute embarrassment. There is no place in policing for cowards like that.

Release their names, they deserve to all be in prison. We wont get that because the supreme court already ruled on this matter and said it was okay for Police not to protect us, and specifically children.

Concho??? The guy who blindly defended the actions of the Uvalde police despite all of the insurmountable evidence showing their cowardly behavior and incompetence? That guy's "professional opinion"?

I would think the Texas DPS spokesman who is all-in on this case has more of a "professional opinion" than anyone...so it's safe to jump to conclusions.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/uvalde...-chief-of-public-safety-says-11655828139

I understand Arrendondo is still on the job. Why?

Uvalde police are fighting tooth and nail to avoid releasing information.

It's a national embarrassment for Texans. It should be a story about how Texas police quickly and swiftly took this clown out, but it the opposite. The only way to save face is to get to the bottom of the story, be transparent, and take action so it does not happen again.

International at this point. Saw articles on BBC about it

Sad
Very very sad

If he didn't think he was in charge of the scene, who in the hell did he think was in charge of it.

Absolutely disgusting!

This is really starting to smell bad.

Well at least it looks like McCraw is getting to the bottom of the story and laying out all the facts, making some progress here...

I understand the whole jurisdiction thing but I really have had an issue from the get go with a small school district police chief with like 6 employees I believe....being in charge of such a major event.

Damn.

Ohhhh but what about those guns? Tell me about how these guns are to blame, and why we need to trust the government and more specifically the police to protect us. Surely these are the correct answers!

Who said he was in charge? Why would not the other LEO forces that where more trained take over. This is a "goat rope" gone bad.

If sarcasm isn’t your thing I’ll try another method next time.

I thought it was pretty good

Starting? Epic failure from the beginning of the truck crash!

Is this the last and final version, or will we get an updated version next week?

This is, has been and will be a cluster from the get go. The outside door was locked, the outside was propped open by a teacher, the door failed to lock when it closed??? The classroom door was locked now the door was not locked.

My question is why was the classroom door not locked when the lockdown was called? A lack of training?

Dan Abrams just had a very informative 10 minute segment with all the details of the report.

The article said the classroom doors could not be locked from the inside.

Me too. Pretty easy to spot this as sarcasm.

Concho...too embarrassed to join the discussion?

Who knows what's true at this point.

"Uvalde Mayor Don McLaughlin accused the Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS) of releasing contradictory information, perpetrating "false leaks" and having its own agenda in the aftermath of the Robb Elementary School shooting.

Why it matters: Law enforcement officials have changed the narrative about what happened multiple times since a gunman shot and killed 21 people. McLaughlin's press conference, which comes after DPS Director Steven McCraw called the Uvalde police response "an abject failure," only heightens the breakdown in relations among the law enforcement agencies that responded that day.

What he's saying: DPS released information that was "completely different" from the information McLaughlin was given in briefings, the mayor said.
McLaughlin claimed that McCraw left out key information in public comments, such as how many of his own troopers and rangers were part of the response. McCraw "has an agenda, and it's not to present a full report of what happened," he alleged.

The mayor said four agencies have control of bodycam footage. "They are the Uvalde district attorney, the DPS, the FBI and the state legislature and someone has chosen to release bits and pieces of body cams, surveillance videos of their choosing ... to create chaos in our community and keep the whole truth from coming out," he claimed.

Meanwhile, McCraw continues to "lie, leak or misstate information," McLaughlin alleged.
McLaughlin emphasized that eight law enforcement agencies were on location after the shooting broke out. As the press conference grew heated, he questioned why the DPS has not received scrutiny for its officers' actions that day.
"If we make mistakes, we have to own up to it ... And we will and every other agency there is going to have to be in the same deal."
McLaughlin also claimed that he had little power in the current proceedings. "Right now, I have to answer to a bunch of bureaucrats up there that haven't been doing their damn job, but that's why we're calling them out today."

What to watch: McLaughlin said suing the DPS is not off the table.
Representatives for the Texas DPS did not immediately respond to Axios' request for comment."


https://www.axios.com/2022/06/22/uvalde-texas-school-shooting

https://www.ksat.com/news/local/202...un-taken-away-after-trying-to-save-wife/

I hope this is untrue.

Damn

Nothing will surprise me now with this event.

Sat down With McLaughlin this past March at the Wild Hog Cookoff in Cotulla. Cannot fathom what he must be going through.

Same guy that crowed and crowed that Ivermectin was a horse paste, now has three shot side effects.

Any LEO's on site should be converted to Dogcatchers Today or FIRED. This Chain of Command Bull Chit ain't gonna fly as those Babies were getting slaughtered.. .

Any LEO that was in that hallway should be fired and prosecuted. Chain of command be damned...they should have done the "right thing"! That fat pig of a police chief should be fired from the dept and the city council seat he holds. Run that mutha-fkr out of town.

They showed the classroom doors on TV last night. Come on really, those could not be breached? HMFIC at DPS stated they where not lockable from the inside.

I will say this too...if you're a member on this forum and a LEO that was on site that day at the school then shame on you. I hope karma finds you and your family in the worst possible way...and karma is a bitch! No sympathy or remorse whatsoever.

I'd say on the Grounds. Would not want any of these Inept people behind me in a fight. I use that term loosely.

Really 308...you wishing harm or bad karma on someone’s family. I understand the hate towards cops that screwed up....but their families????

Nope, still waiting for the facts, I couldn’t care less about opinions, yours or people who weren’t there…..

Dude I thought better of you, not anymore you are one of them....

Sorry but wishing harm or bad karma on a family is not right. They had nothing to do with anyone's actions that day.
Pretty sad and disgusting to wish bad karma on a family like that.

Go back and read my posts, I was one of the first to acknowledge someone or multiply officials most likely messed up, I haven’t blindly defended anyone, regardless of a member posting that lie…..and lastly, I don’t know you so why would I possibly care about your opinion of me?

We were not there. This was caused by an evil person. Everyone was doing the best they thought at the time.

I worked at a place, we had various " table top" exercises. Real time exercises were mostly taken lightly, as a chance to get out work and off their regular grind.

When the real deal hit, everybody including the first responders looked like the Keystone Cops. Sad deal for everyone,

May the devil take the souls of the politicians using this as leverage for thier agenda.

You do care or you wouldn't have replied, Shame on you.

Starts @ 16:45

I call it like I see it and I specifically said "karma". They didn't care about the kids or their families while they were standing there with their thumbs up the azzez! Zero fks given!

Eat crow

https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/8613005/18

The facts have been published. How many investigations do you require?

Absolutely disgusting.

1st and foremost karma is a made up construct from the Hindu’s.

But the idea that we’re responsible for the sins of our fathers is pretty silly.

Not according to the people wanting reparations…..

For the record, and because DPS sucks at PR, the first two cops that were shot was the last of the shooting. The kids were already dead at this point and the false flag was just cop hunting. The ballistic shield was not rated for a rifle rounds. It seems the MSM is trying to push the populace against LEOs.

Absolutely correct Duck. Was going to comment about karma also. It’s a false belief. Yoga also falls under the ungodliness of the Eastern religions too.

Don't puke on yourself!

Exactly what I said weeks ago.

I don't think so. The HMFIC at TXDPS has spoken. He is this ranking CLEO in the State of Texas. Are you expecting a different narrative from another agency? Federal...yea, right. what a joke!!!

For good reason. Not too mention, the media is reporting word for word what LEOs (DPS) is reporting. There's no media conspiracy here.

The point is, if Cops were outside the door within 3 minutes and there were still kids inside the room texting and calling 911, how many died because of lack of medical care? A small wound can take a while to bleed out, something simple like first aid might have saved some of those kids.

Heck, even news story about one of the teachers shot, she texted her husband saying she was shot and dying, maybe she could have been saved with prompt medical care.

The bottom line is with the news the cops stood outside an UNLOCKED door for over an hour, and this many kids dead, no one would fault anyone for not sayig there wasn't enough done.

And I don't care of the shield wasn't ballistic for rifle rounds. The cops get paid to protect the public. They put their life on the line every time they leave their house in uniform, so for them to be stood down due to the shield is a total non-excuse. That will not fly. Soldiers don't have a ballistic shield they get to carry, they put it on the line. So in this situation, the cops should have been in there and the threat neutralized and it is quite possible we would have half or less fatalities. It is possible we would have the same amount of fatalities, but at least we would know the most was done to try....at this point all we have is no effort while kids died. Doesn't matter what spin is put on it, thats the new reality.

I am sure people were still inside the school calling for help. This guy was in one room, with no shooting going on. Supreme Court has ruled the cops have no duty to protect you. Why do we strip our teachers of the right to protect themselves?

How come all of these shooters are known by the FBI?
This kid killed cats and dogs. Why is he on the streets?

A government that injects it’s citizens with a drug that severely weakens your immune system, and has already killed thousands if not millions. Everyone knows several that have had adverse effects on those around us, including death. A Government that does that, would not think twice about killing a couple of kids, to finally get your guns.

You are barking up the wrong tree. Reputation is what others think of you. Character is what you think of yourself. The men that were outside that unlocked door 3 minutes after the shooting started threw both away and will never get either back. Trying to deflect blame to lawmakers has zero impact on the unwillingness of armed men in body armor to risk their own personal well being to protect defenseless children that were being slaughtered …. That is bull crap and we both know it. There is no spin or justification you can put on that to make it ok.

No matter how you want to cuss and discuss or slice and dice it, a bunch of chickenshit cops stood down while children were being slaughtered.

Every cop there and the Chief have childrens blood on their hands.

Well a state senator just sued DPS for the records, so we should find out why they aren’t cooperating…..

A State Senator huh? Like you'll get the truth out of that jack wagon? Riiiiiiiigggghhhhtttt...
Keep on believing if it helps you sleep better at night.

I never said there could be a lawsuit against the cops that stood by and did nothing, that is where the scotus "no duty" thing comes from, but what I did say is this makes cops look really bad. I think the majority of people will put the blame solely on the cops that were there and not extrapolate this to every cop, but as we have seen in recent past, there is a war against cops and this did nothing to help that.

Also, bringing in a straw man argument does nothing to bolster your case here. We all know there are known issue within the system. This thread is about what happened in Uvalde and not anything broader reaching. If you want to make a thread about the purpose of these issues (your govt theory on gun control) feel free, but don't try to talk over-riding govt control theory in with a specific example of poor police work.

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/t...ps-over-uvalde-shooting-records/2998022/

There are times when I feel I should spend less time on THF. Especially after reading insane garbage like this.

Hey, I was trying to stay out of this debate, but there are several members like yourself who drag my name into this stuff every time without me even being a part of the debate. I could say the same to you, if condemning police every time you get a chance helps you sleep then by all means carry-on, but I'm done arguing about a situation where I have no direct knowledge. I can't help but believe your personal dislike for police goes deeper than Uvalde. If the cops messed up, they will be held accountable. I done rehashing old lies, disinformation and misinformation, but you boys carry-on.....

You brought it on yourself. Learn to eat crow or you’re gonna get this one locked, too.

There is NO crow to eat, if saying Id rather wait for the facts is not a reasonable stance, go blow dust dude. You are another loose cannon blowhard.

Wonder how many folks will be home schooling next year, how many teachers will be re-newing their contracts and how many folks will be moving from the town without major changes in town?

No crow, Concho? Let me post that link one more time. You sure weren’t waiting for the facts.

https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/8613005/18

If people and more specifically democrats really cared, they would be demanding safer cars, enhanced background checks for obtaining a driver license and slower speed limits. So far in 2022 there have been 3,642 fatalities in car crashes in Texas.

People who do the Yoga exercise are committing sin?

Presbyterian church close to me used to teach Christian Yoga classes. I thought about it but figured I couldn't "keep my eyes on the ball", if you know what I mean.

Back to the bickering about this sad, tragic situation.

Naw, you and me are both already neck deep in this debate. You called me out for calling BS on waiting over an hour on a key to enter the classroom. I know you remember that. You also stated there was no way to open that door without a key.
Turns out the damned door was not locked. So yeah, that key story was more BS.

Out of curiosity, who else are we waiting on to talk? The police reported to the governor and lied to cover the shame of what happened. State lawmen investigated what actually happened. The findings of that report were made public and confirmed it. No media spin. Straight out of the top DPS officers mouth. Are you insinuating the head of the DPS is lying? Exactly who else are we waiting to hear from before drawing conclusions?


A politician getting their hands on the records does not give me a warm fuzzy feeling about learning the truth. My experience watching what politicians do with something like this is to see them state half truths to twist reality for political gain. I say let the state police sort it out before giving politicians the opportunity to distort it.

And Paddock killed all of those people in Vegas with a bump stock.

For the conscientious viewer. http://texasfishingforum.com/

All of this shows you what happens when you empower the school districts.

Uvalde school district police chief Pete Arredondo placed on leave; city council denies leave request


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/u...mp;cvid=b42efa6e7b694c2397e5d3937bc9e697

Running out of smoke and mirrors. All orchestrated and keep telling different stories just like every other event like this and just like the others we never will get the truth but one thing that’s consistent about every one is they are clear as a bell about going after our guns.

What will satisfy you in terms of “the facts?” Who has to investigate and report in order for you to consider the findings factual? I’m just curious.

You cannot question him. Do you know who he is???

This whole thing is just horribly [censored].

It really is Skinner. I know gunner and to say he is anti LEO is a lie. He is pretty passionate and I respect his view on things. Maybe not the fullest extent but if it was my kids... I get it. I hope I am never in that situation.

Haven’t read all the pages. If it’s true what we read, the officers are just as at fault as the chief dumbazz. They could’ve disobeyed him, tell him to eat a bowl of di!!s and stormed that door. None of them should’ve listened to him. Just go.

It sounds too set up to be real but it happened. The LEOs I know would have never let this go down. Arresting people for trying to go get their child?

The active shooter scene that I was at was an absolute train wreck. Bad and conflicting information coming from all directions and everyone trying to make the correct decisions and response based on that information. After being in an eerily similar situation and knowing what it was like, I won't be making any harsh judgments at this time. The corroborated facts will come out at some point and I'll just have to wait until then to blame anyone specifically.

I’m not sure sure if the people doing yoga is a sin BUT, I’m pretty sure me checking those chicks out wearing yoga pants is a sin.

What will satisfy you in terms of “the facts?” Who has to investigate and report in order for you to consider the findings factual? I’m just curious. [/quote]

When we get a final report on what actually occurred at Uvalde. This changing narrative every couple of days makes me believe even the folks running the investigation really don't know, or the folks handing out information don't know. I'd like to know who was actually making the on-scene decisions, such as who stopped the one officer and removed him the scene if that story is true. There will be plenty of time to judge, condemn, hold accountable......I'd just like to make sure the correct folks are being held accountable. I truly believe the officers I have known and worked with over the years would have done everything possible to save the children at Uvalde. It seems to me that even the different law enforcement agencies involved at Uvalde are pointing fingers at each other. Like I said, I tried to stay out of this, I know what I would have done, Id like to know why that didn't happen at Uvalde. All I am doing is waiting for all the facts, what we know does not sound good, what we don't know might explain some of the decisions, good, bad, or whatever. I will try to make this my last comment on the situation since my opinion seems to offend some folks here on the forum.

The chief has been placed on leave. He was denied a request for a leave of absence.

Everybody's expectations of small town police departments and certainly the LEO of the school districts may be a tad over placed. Regrettable mistakes were made in this event where good minded people had to respond to evil lunacy. Some fan more flames than others, but the outcome was not acceptable to anyone once poster child of evil got in there.

Barney Fife or not, I expect police to run towards the danger when young kids are being hurt. I don't think that's unreasonable.

Sherpa I agree. I fully accept that there are people out there who don’t have it in them to run towards danger. Those people should not be a first responder of any kind. Period.

Hud, the size of the town a man is in has nothing to do with what is in the man.

I would expect a small town ISD chief to have properly working radios and know how the classroom doors lock and unlock. I would expect them to have access to a master key.

I do not care to get into much of this but this is spot on. Every one of those ISD officers should have master keys. Any if not every one, at least the chief. How do those ISD officers communicate everyday if they do not have working radios. I can understand outside agencies having an issue but not for the ISD.

Most are good people, and I think most people equipped to deal with this situation, as in a legally armed citizen, would have done something about this if it were not cordoned off by law enforcement.

I also think most law enforcement available on the scene would have hit that classroom and taken him out before so much time had passed with good leadership.

Mission success depends on good leadership and good teamwork, certainly even the most basically trained police understand this much.

You can’t just blame everyone on the scene for what happened, you have to learn to trust your leadership and work as a team.

If the officers on the scene had all decided to disregard their police chief, and charge in willy nilly it could have been even more tragic.

It takes well trained and cohesive team to do stuff like that without someone to call the shots.

I retired from one of the largest agencies in Texas. No expense was spared with the most modern radio system. They routinely wouldn’t work in schools, hospitals and other large buildings. If we couldn’t get a signal we used phones. Sometimes those wouldn’t work either.

The one school district Chief of Police I know is from a much smaller town than Uvalde. He'd do through the wall with his head if though it would save a kid.

What trapper says is true. I retired from juvenile probation. Benn in lots of schools jails and detention centers. I understand outside agencies radios not working but your facility radios should. When we moved to a new detention center the radios would not work bought some repeaters and it was fixed. How can border patrol radios work in the school and the ISD radios not. Most ISD chiefs knew their school inside and out.

It is usually not the radios that are the issue in buildings like schools. This is why most larger cities are now requiring Emergency Radio Response Radio systems be installed which are basically booster systems within the schools. Buildings made of concrete & steel and especially those with metal roofs block 2-way radio signals and that is why these ERR systems are now having to be installed to meet codes in new buildings. I suspect this school was older and did not have such a system in it.

Structures can become a Faraday cage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage

Some radios could work better depending on the frequency they operate.

This same principle is also how your microwave keeps electromagnetic waves from escaping.

Did they interview the first couple of cops that were standing outside the door to see why they didn't check to see if the door was locked? I'm not going to blame guy's 5-20 for not knowing the door was locked/unlocked.. Maybe they asked "is it locked" or maybe they didn't even think to ask that because there were 10 other people standing there. By the time they showed up, you aren't going to have 15 different people checking the door to see if it was locked. Especially when there is a guy on the other side of the door with a gun that could shoot you as you were jiggling the door handle to see if it was locked. To me, this seems like a horrifically tragic situation that is like what you see in an elevator lobby every day. 10 people standing around and no one has pushed the up button because they assumed the first 9 people before them pushed it already. Except in this case, there is no light to tell you the door is locked and the only way to find out is to go try it. Don't forget that there is a guy with a rifle on the other side just waiting to shoot you when you put your hand on the handle and try to see if it's locked. Having every single person that shows up check to see if a door is locked doesn't seem like proper protocol or tactics.

When we get a final report on what actually occurred at Uvalde. This changing narrative every couple of days makes me believe even the folks running the investigation really don't know, or the folks handing out information don't know. I'd like to know who was actually making the on-scene decisions, such as who stopped the one officer and removed him the scene if that story is true. There will be plenty of time to judge, condemn, hold accountable......I'd just like to make sure the correct folks are being held accountable. I truly believe the officers I have known and worked with over the years would have done everything possible to save the children at Uvalde. It seems to me that even the different law enforcement agencies involved at Uvalde are pointing fingers at each other. Like I said, I tried to stay out of this, I know what I would have done, Id like to know why that didn't happen at Uvalde. All I am doing is waiting for all the facts, what we know does not sound good, what we don't know might explain some of the decisions, good, bad, or whatever. I will try to make this my last comment on the situation since my opinion seems to offend some folks here on the forum. [/quote]



Appreciate the clarification. The news that came out this week was from security cameras inside the school obtained by the media and it was reported that officers were in the hallway with a ballistic shield and at least one rifle for an hour+. I imagine if that timeline is false, then DPS or someone part of the investigation would have disputed it immediately, but I haven’t seen anyone push back on the new information being reported.

There are plenty of facts.

All some of us have ever needed is the fact that a bunch of dead kids lay inside a room with armed men sworn to protect them waited outside. End of file.

So now you're the victim? Typical of you.

Your offense comes from crowing on and on, the highest poster on every thread about it. Name calling. Asking whom has risked their lives for others, what everyone else's experiences are, and on and on. And now you're the victim?

Two things against you, every day. You are not smart, and you are a narcissist.

How is your health, by the way? That "horse paste" as you called it, is looking pretty good by now, since you got free medical advice months ago telling your hard head it would be better than government shots. But you stood there and crowed the loudest and the most against it, many hours of every day.

Keep crowing, crow. Nothing but a nuisance.

And before you pull the card I know you are going to, I have many, many close friends in law enforcement. Most have over 20 years on the job. Most are active duty SWAT, and are or have been patrol. ALL of them say this whole deal was handled 100% wrong. ALL of them told me the last 24 years of training says you storm in, risk officers lives and put down the bad man with the gun to save kids lives.

The fact cops that typically hassle normal people did nothing for over an hour because they were stupid, scared, or involved? in the situation is the issue to me.

I can't claim to have been able to do the right thing because I'm an automotive technician with no sworn statement to prevent what those guys failed to prevent at their own hand.

Wow. That was swiftly and properly handled. Very well done.

I'm not the victim in any of this, never said I was, and have no idea what the hell you are talking about. You and your minions bring my name into any topic you wish to cause disruption on the forum and I really don't get why your BS is tolerated. I couldn't care less what you think about my opinions and really don't know why you care about them. You apparently have this all figured out and your investigation is complete, even though the REAL investigations continue. You are correct, there are plenty of FACTS and they change EACH and EVERY day. If you don't like what I have to post, please be an adult and use the Ignore Button. My health from this point forward in NONE of your business, although I get your little jab. I don't know you, I don't like you or your kind, so please feel free to ignore me.....a REAL adult would.

I guess I don’t need anymore facts. A bunch of kids died while a bunch of cops stood by and did nothing for over an hour. Fact. I don’t care who determines if they were in the right, my mind is made up regarding this situation and the leadership that day. I am still a supporter of police officers far and wide though, one incident doesn’t change that.

What about Parkland school resource officer Scot Peterson? That's Two.

The fact that there’s multiple incidents that can be cited doesn’t change anything for me and my positive outlook on law enforcement as a whole. Generally speaking I’m not prepared to believe that a large percentage of law enforcement are weak and or corrupt.

I will third that ^!

I just find it "interesting" there is more discourse on the horribly inappropriate LEO response to this tragedy and less on the moral environment (lack of?) which led to the formation of this monster who is ultimately responsible for all that took place. The lynch mob mentality of many on here displaces the opportunity to find corrections in two areas - that which led to what happened and the response to that insanity.

And adult would recognize consequences for their actions, not believe they can play the victim card after they crowed the loudest and longest.

Caw, caw...

Yup
Family and friends I have in law enforcement all told me exactly the same thing.
When there is a shooter and they are shooting you do not stop, you do not try and help injured, you do not try and help people out, YOU GO STRAIGHT TO THE SOURCE AND END IT!

I'm not sure I understand what facts you are waiting to hear.
The fact is that MULTIPLE cops stood around for over an hour while innocent children and teachers were bleeding out on the floor and literally calling on their phones asking for help instead of doing what all training says to do.........GO KILL THE SOB AT ALL COSTS AND STOP HIS AZZ!

There is not a damn thing that can be said that changes any of it. They didn't do what they were supposed to do and any trained LEO will tell you that.

Yes, well none of what you just stated is any part of my argument about getting to the actual facts, there is no doubt that this entire tragedy should have been avoided or terminated very early. I'm not debating that this went way wrong from the get go and I know and understand active shooter response. In fact this shooter was known as a problem way before this even occurred and should have been on someone's radar. The real bad guy seems to have been forgotten in this investigation. I want to known who caused the delayed entry into those classrooms, what caused the delay, and why that decision was made so hopefully it is never made again. To make one blanket statement that every law enforcement officer who responded should lose their job, be prosecuted or worse is simply insane. I have been involved in many situations involving officers in high risk dangerous situations and I have known very few officers who lacked the courage to do exactly what you stated in your post. I believe there is more to this story that will emerge through these investigations, the investigations will not change the final results that is a fact, we cannot bring back those who died in this tragedy, but allow us to a the very least find out who contributed to this tragic result and hold them responsible. Throwing VooDoo curses, Karma or whatever at everyone at the scene isn't going to change or solve anything. And I have a real question: Do you guys believe that every officer in Uvalde, City, ISD, County Sheriff, DPS, Border Patrol lacked the courage to terminate this situation? I simply believe there is more to this story.

[size:17pt][/size]

I absolute do not believe they all lacked the courage to terminate this animal.
What I do believe is we already know who was in charge of the scene but apparently he didn't know he was in charge and certainly wasn't capable of making the right decisions one damn bit.
I question how when there is that many officers there from different departments that someone didn't defy whatever obvious wrong orders were given sooner and go in and kill that SOB and save lives!

I to like you believe there will be more facts that come out. But, the only important fact is that lives could have been saved and they weren't because nobody acted according to PROTOCALL!

^ Yes, everyone of them (on scene) should be fired and held accountable for dereliction of duty from the top down. We already know they will be named in a civil lawsuit at some point...FACT. I have no sympathy for any of them (on scene) and do hope karma finds them and they sleep well at night. Not a single one of them deserve to be a LEO. Cowards, every one of them.

Cut off the nose to spite the face.

That’s all well and good and the complete set of facts should be found out. But that changes nothing in this case. How does such a cluster happen. I have known many resource officers in schools and I will never understand how LE sets it up to where a school resource officer would be in charge. As this case proves, it just sets up to many unknowns. It seems LE is just as efficient as politicians. Cowards? Not sure about that. In today’s world an LE that just goes solo and charges in could be looking at serious jail time. We have set them up to fail. I am not a real fan of LE, but we gotta be fair towards them. Stupid stuff happens. MHO

I seriously doubt that. Policy and politics be damned. If just one officer would have grabbed his balls and took charge and attempted to do "SOMETHING" to save just one life he would be a HERO. As it stands now they were all ZEROs. Lead, follow or fking get the hell out of the way. Those kids lives depended on those officers to do their JOBS.

Please let me keep my firearms.

That is not an American statement.

but but but it appears the police can't always protect me

That has merit Hud

If you ever thought they would protect you then you're thinking wrong. They only fill out the AAR now. Keep your head on a swivel and carry on!

We can doubt it for sure. But that means nothing. Easy to say knowing what did happen. If it had gone worse had one LE done that, then we don’t know. With all we have seen in the last few years I am sure many many LE waits for someone else to make the call to go in. With the exception of all THF LE that is. Of course they would have gone in regardless. Again, you can doubt it, but your job, life, freedom was not on line. And you may be right, this may have been fubar’d from the get go. So unfortunate that they paid with their life for what society has brought on itself.

I think you missed the point. You don’t have to ask permission.

Exactly!

You demand that you keep them. And you back up that demand by using them against anyone that tries to take them.

Read the history of the colonies from 1775 to 1783.

I'd like to know how the shooter was able to afford those weapons. From what I've read they seemed a bit above his paygrade. Perhaps a good look into who he was talking to on social media would be nice.

I really do think it was a conspiracy. Someone wealthy, or maybe some type of a group of people, is watching social media and supplying these nutballs, and calling their bluff. Because you know there is no way in hell a loser like that put all that together on his own for himself. Price of ammo these days… come on

Great question. I'm sure have investigated employment and banking records.

DDM407 - 1900 bucks
500 5.56 M193 - 250 bucks
10 Pmags - 120 bucks

That’s not exactly a lot of money these days even for someone working in a fast food restaurant.

Especially true if he had received any kind of stimulus checks from the Government.

Still think he stole it from his grandmother.

Yup, even at $200 a week, in three months that is paid for, with ammo. Beg, borrow, or steal some money, sell grandma's jewelry, etc, and this happens faster.
He had one goal, if vigilant, he could have made this happen pretty quick.

I still say check the bank records of the shooters' families a year or two after.

I read somewhere he had a joint checking account with grandma.

Yep he has been planning this a long time. I would bet he stole from grandma.

Then he used grandmas money or stole it. People like that don’t have the discipline to save money over time to accomplish a goal. Except for the most paranoid kind, that save it on impulse. They lack impulse control.

POS cops are harassing the mom that had bigger balls than them.

https://jezebel.com/uvalde-mom-who-rescued-her-two-kids-is-suing-police-ove-1849125200

So we have now stooped to the low of Jezebel and Huffington Post for our news and accurate information?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/uvalde-mother-rescue-kids-shooting-harassed-police-lawyer.amp

I’m glad there are still some good feds out there.

Our local Feds seem to get pushed into same clump as DC Feds and I’m glad we still got some good ones here in TX

I’m tired of reading the projections, I just hope it gets fixed and doesn’t happen again. Suxs Texas will be mentioned in Training video but if it saves just one child then it’s worth it.

Burn.

Never heard of police harassing witnesses and parents being tolerated in America.....wonder what the background of the story might be? We think that was a pretense to harass her, her lawyer said.....police with lights on near her home.....yep, sounds REAL credible to me.

The story is a bunch of ifs and mights.....no substance there, no proof, just garbage reporting.

"Gomez, who is on probation"......yep, no axe to grind there.....

let it go Conch, let it go . . . .

Nope, tried of the bashing PoPo, ain't gonna put up with fiction.

Pretty sure no one has bashed law enforcement as a whole on this forum. That would not be tolerated by the membership, or admin.

There's been plenty of bashing of an I.C. and some to the specific officers reporting to him.

Once again, a bunch of kids were getting shot, and calling for help. And the people responsible for helping them did not. Plain and simple.

Hmmmmm, still not ignoring. What does any of your post have to do with story posted about police harassment?

I just found out Chick-fil-A is SB and not Mormon. Good thing I didn’t bet

SB --- Southern Baptist? I hate acronyms. (By the by, "Mormon" is LDS.)

That's why they close on Sundays.

Nothing, it was another rebuttal to your nonsense. Guess that went right over your head, as usual.

Caw, caw!

Yes I was going to say SBC but that would made it an affiliate I think. Every Mormon I know is a little entrepreneur. That’s what I get for assuming

Think that’s more of a Christian thing then just Baptist


But every Sunday at Brunch I kind of get perplexed on the issue, if your really think about it.

Concho. The parents of every child in that school along with every teacher in that school legitimately has an axe to grind. Initial reports to the Governor by the police were a lie. Once the police lied, it is damn hard to believe anything else they say. After what they showed about their own character only a fool stands up for their word. Their attempted deception about their lack of response lends credibility to a woman who had the courage to rescue her children when the police on site froze up.

Put any spin on that you want. By and large it comes down to believing your eyes or your ears.

You piqued my interest, so I did a little (very little) research and found the Blue Laws in the U.S. dated back to the Revolution era. Always thought it was a Baptist inspired thing.

See, there you go "police lied" "their word." Who exactly are you talking about, there were no police besides DPS spoke persons, the DPS Director, Uvalde ISD Chief, Greg Abbott, and government officials giving statements.....The Texas Rangers were investigating last I heard, where is the Ranger report? Do we wait on what the official investigation exposes, or just go ahead and condemn them all now? I AM NOT THE ONE PUTTING THE SPIN ON IT, that has already been accomplished by the news media, and once again my posts today were in response to a nonsense news story which was meant to stir up the public, not what police did at the scene.

And By-the-Way, "believe your eyes?" Were you there?

They don’t call it the Baptist belt for nothing!!!!

I wonder where eating out Sunday brunch thing came from!!

Oklahoma used to be under the control of the SB. Thankfully things have changed. When will Texas allow us to buy beer before noon on Sunday?

No sir I was not there. You were trying discredit the woman who went in and got her children because the police would not, after she was handcuffed for going after them the first time. She was there, we’re you? More true story. Texas rangers are investigating because the Governor was given a false report. Is that true or are you saying Abbot is lying?

Concho I back the police and have several good friends who are in various branches of law enforcement but the goings on at Uvalde stink to high heaven.

I have no idea who lied and neither do you, and no I wasn't discrediting the women who saved her children, I was debunking the news story based on assumptions and insinuations. Police on your street with lights on in the town the size of Uvalde doesn't present evidence that the police are harassing you.

And I'll edit to clarify, No, why would Abbott lie? Someone apparently lied to Abbott, or as in many cases the need for officials to know all out paces the available information coming from the scene. This happens more times than not when officials rush to the scene to give a press conference, many things get lost in the translation. This was a cluster from the get go, no doubting the delay cost lives, but who gave the order? A day after the shooting Abbott and his team was up there telling us what happened, so why if they could give all the details then, can't we get them now? There is information that the ISD Chief Did Not give Abbott the details, so who provided the false details?

Not a Blue Law, but I remember when I was stationed at Warner Robbins, GA in 84/85 and on election evening 84, buddy and I went to a local bar and we weren't allowed to drink until the polls closed. Ga also stopped drink sales at midnight on Sat nights because that was "Sunday." So at midnight everyone would come back to the NCO club on base and drink until 4am.

A buddy of mine just found out that the Grandy's restaurant name meaning was referring to grandmother. I thought everyone knew that.

Maybe I’m missing something here but what do Baptists, Mormons and Chick Fil A have to do with Uvalde tragedy
But I’m easily confused so....

It’s ok man, if chic-fil-a is closed, just go to Popeyes and get a spicy chicken sandwich, or go to Whataburger and get a double double with jalapeños. It’ll satisfy the itch.

If you have a decent preacher, this isn't an issue. (I was raised Baptist.)

That law changed last year. 10am now

Pretty wise words!!! I gained 10lb when I found out Central Market carried Whatsburger Honey Butter!!!

Who doesn’t want honey butter on a biscuit!!!

Ohhh yaaa I’m with you on that one. . Just like Grands!!!

Lets move past this and stop the pissing match I would imagine. I am not a Mod though.

Wow that is a pretty broad statement to condemn all of the officers

I would be willing to bet several if not most of them wanted to go in and confront and take out the POS gunman and were either disappointed or pissed because they were Ordered to stand down!

Absolutely. These people have families too. The chief, however, should be drawn and quartered.

Years ago, they all had an elderly person dressed like grandma fixing to go to church, she would walk around hooking folks up with hot rolls. He still never made the connection.

When they got rid of grandma they went downhill. Those rolls were heaven.

Dang stub I believe TXGUNNER is spot on. There is a line in any profession where as a man you can not abide by what you are told to do. I don’t care what you do for a living. If you know children are being murdered on the other side of the door you are standing at and your boss tells you to do nothing or lose your job. That is across the line every time. As a man you tell the boss to stick his job up his [censored] and do the right thing. That is where the disconnect in this discussion lies and what people like me are pissed about. Some are taking a stance that someone telling them to let the children be murdered makes it ok. Don’t ever expect me to go along with that, regardless of who is pointing fingers at who.

Except most professions aren't disliked by a large portion of society, they don't get prosecuted for their actions, they don't get defunded, and most of them aren't in the spotlight, or in this case headlights. So, question: You refuse to follow orders, you charge ahead alone, and more people get killed? Who is going to get blamed and prosecuted? I'm not saying the actions were anywhere near correct, in fact I was trained to charge to the gunshots, but I'm not really sure how many would ignore a direct order and charge ahead alone, taking on all the liability and responsibility. I know what I would have done, and I'm once again not debating the action taken costed lives. And I'm not defending the actions taken. I'm not sure a plumber defying his boss is anywhere near the same decision......

What about the officers who arrived later after 19 were already inside the hallway, are they equally to blame in your mind, or could they have just been uninformed or misinformed about what was taking place? And I wonder if some of those officers inside were helping evacuate other students and clearing the remainder of the school. Some folks here are painting with a very broad brush.

I'm going to have to check that out.

To the best of my knowledge those folks in the Blue wearing the Badges are some of the bravest folks on the planet.
Who knows what those officers were told about the situation at hand?
So unless you, TXGUNNER or anyone else have the true facts about what those officers knew at the time then I am not going to condemn them period!!

You do you! Your tune might be different if it was your kid.

I have enough true facts as reported by the DPS HMFIC to formulate my own opinion on what transpired. Yes the news media twists facts but I do have some faith in the DPS in reporting most (> 75%) of the facts.

Just in...that azz clown Chief Pete just resigned from the Uvalde City Council. Good riddance! He's not even qualified to work at McDonald's.

Guys for the love of God!!! It’s July 4th weekend, let’s put aside the differences and remember why we are unequivocally and uniquely American!!!

Y’all can argue this depressing [censored] Tuesday!!!!


Now go be a Proud American..Texan

God Bless America!

If this was a story of the school being on fire. And Uvalde FD was capable of putting a full first alarm assignment on it. Which is usually 3 Engines, a Truck an Ambulance and a Battalion Chief at minimum. And they had two Engines hooked to hydrants, four crosslays on the ground. The school was on fire but the kids were in a tenable room, and they failed to go in, put water on the fire, ventilate heat and smoke, and rescue. I would be just as disappointed and would not be defending them.

Bob, I have good news for you…from last year

https://www.statesman.com/story/ent...sunday-new-laws-what-to-know/5767753001/

Just when I think this couldn't get worse, it does. From the Wall Street Journal

A police officer had the Uvalde school shooter in his rifle sight before the gunman entered Robb Elementary School but didn’t fire because he believed he needed permission to take the shot, a report found.

The report, released by the Texas State University’s Advanced Law Enforcement Rapid Response Training (ALERRT) Center on Wednesday, highlighted new details about the troubled response to the May mass shooting that left 19 children and two teachers dead.

“The [Uvalde police] officer, armed with a rifle, asked his supervisor for permission to shoot the suspect. However, the supervisor either did not hear or responded too late,” the report said. The officer turned to get confirmation from his supervisor, according to the report, but by the time he turned back, the suspect had entered the building’s hallway.

I guess he couldn't get approval because the guy who was in charge didn't know he was in charge?

Been watching this on tv. Don't know how that officer can live with himself after that. And another officer sped past the shooter in the parking lot without seeing him.

Both of these incidents were reported early on in the investigation, this isn't new, but stirring up public emotion seems to be the norm these days.

Not the call for permission!

Yes, actually all these guys waited for permission.....I would have asked for forgiveness after the fact.

You seem angry

Okie Doke Mr. Paranoid.

Yes, they all waited, but this is the first report of that officer actually asking permission to shoot.

Okay, so why does it matter "Why" he didn't take the shot, the problem is he didn't take it and that was known day 1.

We were told in the beginning he didn't take the shot because he was afraid of hitting other students. How many more lies are going to be uncovered?

Oh, Okay......I missed your point. Yes, well we'll have to wait and see why we were told the lies to know that answer. I suspect they aren't so much lies and as misinformation gathered during a hurried investigation so Governor Abbott could have his presser. Remember the ISD Chief said that information did not come from him, and Abbott couldn't or wouldn't answer the question about where he obtained the information, and his hand written notes don't say. I don't know who lied about what happened in Uvalde, why they lied, or what their motive might be. I do know that I would never give a politician information on a mass shooting 24 hours into the investigation, with no way yet to confirm what happened if I knew he would give out details of the investigation before the investigation was complete. I believe Abbott was provided some weak, poorly vetted information.

I could see that.

Concho...you satisfied with the report released yesterday or are you waiting for another?

Seems like the question on whether his supervisor didn't hear the request for permission or didn't answer in time would be CLEAR already. Apparently not! SMDH

My next question is this to all you officers out there.
Why in the hell would ANY police officer need permission to shoot when a guy is carrying a damn AR15 and headed into a school?
It simply doesn't even register to me. You take aim and open fire on the SOB animal and kill him!

I hate second guessing any law enforcement.

If the police knew this guy had already shot his grandmother in the face 30 minutes earlier, crashed his truck in a ditch and started firing at two people before entering the school.
How could there not be an order from top brass to shoot him on site?

https://abcnews.go.com/US/timeline-shooting-texas-elementary-school-unfolded/story?id=84966910


Shortly after 11 a.m.: Ramos shot his 66-year-old grandmother in the head at their residence, according to McCraw. He flees.
She was able to run across the street and call police, McCraw said. She was taken to the hospital via helicopter but is expected to survive.

11:27 a.m.: A Robb Elementary School teacher exits the school's west-facing entrance door to transport food from her parked car to the classroom, The Associated Press reported and the Texas Department of Public Safety confirmed to ABC News on Tuesday. The teacher witnesses the car wreck and runs inside to retrieve her phone, using a rock to keep the door propped open.

11:28 a.m.: Ramos crashes his vehicle into a ravine adjacent to Robb Elementary School, according to McCraw. He emerges from the passenger side of the vehicle wielding a Daniel Defense AR-15-style assault rifle. Ramos wore a backpack containing ammunition and tactical gear, including a vest that could hold ammunition, sources said, but there was no armor or fabric that would protect him from gunfire.

After exiting the vehicle, according to McCraw, Ramos fires four shots at two witnesses outside a nearby funeral home, neither of whom was struck, and then makes his way toward the school.

11:29 a.m.: The Robb Elementary teacher calls 911 to report the car crash. While on the phone with police, she returns to the propped-open door and sees Ramos approaching the school with a gun, which she tells the dispatcher. The teacher then removes the rock she had used to prop open the door and shuts the door -- but the door does not lock, the AP reported and Texas DPS
confirmed to ABC News.

McCraw said initially that the teacher left the door propped open. But the Texas DPS corrected itself days later, telling ABC News that investigators have now determined that the teacher closed the door. McCraw said in testimony to the Texas Senate on June 21 that the locking mechanism was not engaged, though the teacher could not have known that from inside the building.

11:30 a.m.: Police receive the first 911 call detailing the crash and shots fired.

11:30 a.m.: U.S. Marshals receive a call from a Uvalde Police Department officer requesting assistance in responding to a shooting at Robb Elementary School, according to the Marshals.

11:31 a.m.: Funeral home footage shows the suspect shooting in between vehicles at the school.

11:31 a.m.: The suspect approaches the school through the parking lot, according to McCraw. Contrary to previous reporting, he does not encounter any officers outside of the building.

11:31 a.m.: Patrol vehicles arrive at the scene of the funeral home.

11:31 a.m.: A Uvalde ISD officer who heard the 911 call about a man with a gun drove immediately to the area, according to McCraw. Upon arrival, the officer sped toward who he thought was the gunman, but turned out to be a teacher, not the suspect. In doing so, the officer drove past the suspect who was hiding behind parked cars, McCraw said.

11:32 a.m.: The gunman fires multiple rounds at the exterior of the school, including some that went through a window, according to McCraw.

At one point, students heard banging on a window before their teacher saw the shooter with a "big gun," a fourth grade student who was inside the school at the time said in an interview with ABC News, describing the "nonstop" gunshots that followed.


11:33 a.m.: Ramos enters Robb Elementary through its west entrance. After entering the building, Ramos walks approximately 20 to 30 feet before turning right down a corridor. After walking an additional 20 feet, Ramos enters a classroom door to his left.

The suspect shoots into classrooms 111 and 112 from the hallway. He then enters, exits and re-enters rooms 111 and 112.

The suspect fired more than 100 rounds at students and teachers, McCraw said. The two classrooms are connected internally. "Hundreds" of rounds are fired within his first four minutes in the classroom, McCraw said.

11:35 a.m.: Three Uvalde Police Department officers enter the school using the same door as the shooter. They were later followed by three other Uvalde police officers and a county deputy sheriff, authorities said. A total of seven officers are in the school, including two with rifles, McCraw said June 21. Two sustain "grazing wounds" from the gunman, who is firing down the hallway from behind a closed door, McCraw said.

11:36 a.m.: Two Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District Police officers, including Chief Pete Arredondo, and two Uvalde police officers enter the school through the south door, according to McCraw.

11:36 a.m.: Three Uvalde police officers and one UCISD officer enter the school through the west door, according to McCraw.

11:37 to 11:44 a.m: The shooter continues firing rounds at intervals, according to McCraw. Ramos entered the classroom with 315 cartridges, McCraw said, and fired 142 of them.

11:37 a.m.: Suspect gunfire injures officers approaching the classroom, McCraw said.

11:38 a.m.: Law enforcement-worn body camera shows an unknown officer say, "He's contained in this office," according to McCraw.

11:40 a.m.: Arredondo calls the Uvalde police landline, according to McCraw.

11:40 a.m.: School surveillance shows the suspect fire one round of gunfire, according to McCraw.

11:41 a.m.: Law enforcement body camera footage shows a Uvalde police officer say, "We believe that he is barricaded in one of the offices, there's still shooting," according to McCraw.

11:41 a.m.: Dispatch asks if the door is locked, to which a Uvalde police officer says, "I am not sure but we have hooligan [a door-entry device] to break it," law enforcement body camera footage shows, according to McCraw.

11:41 a.m.: Four first responders enter from the east hallway: two constables, a fire marshal and a Uvalde police officer, according to school surveillance, McCraw said.

11:42 a.m.: One DPS trooper and two Uvalde police officers enter from the east hallway, according to McCraw.

11:43 a.m.: Robb Elementary School posts to Facebook that the campus has gone under lockdown "due to gunshots in the area."

11:44 a.m.: Suspect fires one round of gunfire, according to school surveillance.

11:44 a.m.: A Uvalde police officer is heard saying, "Have some officers that are available get everybody back," according to body camera footage.

11:48 a.m.: UCISD Officer Ruben Ruiz, the husband of one of the teachers in the classroom, enters through the west door and is heard telling officers, "She says she's shot," according to body camera footage.

11:50 a.m.: An unknown officer says, "They need to get out of the hallway," to which another Uvalde police officer responds, "Chief is in there, chief in charge right now, hold on."

11:51 a.m.: Seven Border Patrol agents enter the school through the west door, according to McCraw.

11:52 a.m.: The first ballistic shield is brought into the school through the west door, according to school surveillance.

11:52 a.m.: A Uvalde police officer says on body camera footage, "Units just showing up, can you help with crowd control?"

11:53 a.m.: An unknown officer informs a DPS special agent that all they need right now is perimeter, according to body camera footage.

Someone comments on whether there are still kids inside, to which the DPS special agent responds, "If there is, then they just need to go in."

11:54 a.m.: A DPS special agent enters the building and is directed to where the suspect is located. He asks an unknown officer, "Are kids still in there?"

The unknown officer responds, "It is unknown at this time."

11:54 a.m.: A Uvalde police officer says, "He's in classroom 111 or 112. But chief is making contact with him. No one has made contact with him," according to body camera footage.

11:55 a.m. to noon Onlookers gather outside the school and grow restless and encourage officers to enter the building, according to a livestream video posted on social media.

11:56 a.m.: Conversation heard over body camera footage:

"Y'all don't know if there's kids in there?" an unknown officer asks.

"If there's kids in there, we need to go in there," a DPS special agent says.

"What's that?" an unknown officer says.

"If there's kids in there, we need to go in there," the DPS special agent says.

"Whoever is in charge will determine that," an unknown officer says.

11:56 a.m.: Someone heard on a Uvalde police channel recording says, "Again, it is critical for everybody to let PD take point on this."

11:58 a.m.: An unknown officer asks where the shooter is, and another officer responds, "The school chief of police is in there with him," Uvalde police recordings show.

11:58 a.m.: A DPS special agent says, "It sounds like a hostage rescue situation. Sounds like a [undercover] rescue, they should probably go in," according to body camera footage.

Approximately 11:58 a.m.: Video obtained by ABC News shows children escaping the school. This is not necessarily the first group of children to leave the school.

12:01 p.m.: A DPS special agent indicates he wants to go clear more rooms. An unknown officer responds, "Don't you think we should have a supervisor approve that?" to which the special agent responds, "He's not my supervisor," according to body camera footage.

12:03 p.m.: More officers arrive on scene and enter the building, according to McCraw. There was as many as 19 officers in the hallway at that time, McCraw said.

12:03 p.m.: A 911 call is made from room 112 that lasts 23 seconds, according to McCraw.

12:03 p.m.: A second ballistic shield is brought in the west door, according to school surveillance.

12:04 p.m.: A third ballistic shield is brought in the west door, according to school surveillance.

12:09 p.m.: A Uvalde police officer is heard saying, "Go around and get the master key to the rooms," according to body camera footage.

12:10 p.m.: The first group of deputy U.S. Marshals from Del Rio, nearly 70 miles away, arrives on site, according to the Marshals. Elements of a Border Patrol team begin arriving at the school.

12:10 p.m.: The first 911 caller calls back and says there are multiple dead in the classroom, according to McCraw.

12:11 p.m.: Arredondo requests a master key, according to body camera footage.

12:13 p.m.: The 911 caller calls again, according to McCraw.

About 12:13 p.m.: In a portion of a videotape obtained by ABC News from outside of Robb Elementary School, what appears to be a police radio dispatcher details a 911 call from a student inside room 112 who describes a room "full of victims."

12:14 p.m.: Arredondo gives instructions to officers to have a sniper on the east roof, according to body camera footage.

12:15 p.m.: U.S. Border Patrol tactical unit members arrive on scene, according to McCraw, with shields and other equipment.

12:16 p.m.: The 911 caller calls again and says eight to nine students are still alive, according to McCraw.

Arredondo is recorded saying, "I just need a key," according to body camera footage.

12:17 p.m.: Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District announces the shooting on Twitter.

"Tell them to f------ wait. No one comes in," Arredondo is recorded saying, according to body camera footage.

12:19 p.m.: A call is made by someone else from room 111. The caller hangs up when another student tells her to, McCraw said.

12:20 p.m.: A fourth ballistic shield is brought into the school through the west door, according to school surveillance.

12:21 p.m.: The gunman fires again at the classroom door, according to McCraw, forcing officers in the building to reposition themselves down the hallway away from the door.

12:21 p.m.: The person in room 111 calls 911 again and three shots are heard over the call.

12:21 p.m.: According to school surveillance, the suspect fired four rounds of gunfire.

12:21 p.m.: "Can you go get a breaching tool? Like for a trailer house?" Arredondo is heard saying over body camera footage.

12:23 p.m.: In body camera footage, Arredondo is heard saying: "We've lost two kids. These walls are thin. If he starts shooting, we're going to lose more kids. I hate to say we have to put those to the side right now."

12:24 p.m.: Arredondo tries to communicate through the wall with the gunman in Spanish and English.

12:25 p.m.: A female victim appears to tell a police dispatcher, "I got shot!" according to audio overheard in the background of a Facebook livestream video cleared and verified by ABC News.

12:26 p.m.: An unknown officer is heard on body camera saying, "There's a teacher shot in there," to which a Uvalde police officer responds, "I know."

12:27 p.m.: Arredondo is heard saying, "People are going to ask why we're taking so long. We're trying to to preserve the rest of the life," according to body camera footage.

12:27 p.m.: Arredondo is heard saying, "Do we have a team ready to go? Do we have a team ready to go? Have at it," according to body camera footage.

12:28 p.m.: "There is a window over there obviously. The door is probably going to be locked. That is the nature of this place. I am going to get some more keys to test," Arredondo says, according to body camera footage.

12:28 p.m.: "These master keys aren't working here, bro. We have master keys and they're not working," Arredondo says, according to body camera footage.

12:30 p.m.: "OK. We've cleared out everything except for that room. We still have people down there just past the flag to the right. But, uh, we're ready to breach but that door is locked," Arredondo says, according to body camera footage.

12:30 p.m.: Uvalde Fire Department scanner traffic says "additional firemen need to respond to Mill Street to establish a perimeter to assist Uvalde EMS and Uvalde PD," according to Broadcastify audio.

12:33 p.m.: "I say we breach through those windows and shoot his f------ head off through the windows," Arredondo says, according to body camera footage.

12:35 p.m.: A hooligan breaching tool is brought into the building through the west door.

12:36 p.m.: Another 911 call is made by the initial caller and it lasts for 21 seconds, according to McCraw. The "student caller" was told to stay on the line and be very quiet. She tells 911 that the gunman "shot the door," McCraw said.

12:38 p.m.: Arredondo attempts again to communicate with the suspect in English and Spanish.

12:41 p.m.: "Just so you understand, we think there are some injuries in there. And so you know what we did, we cleared off the rest of the building so we wouldn't have anymore besides what's already in there, obviously," Arredondo says, according to body camera footage.

12:42 p.m.: "We're having a f------ problem getting into the room because it is locked. He's got an AR-15 and he's shooting everywhere like crazy. So, he's stopped," Arredondo says, according to body camera footage.

12:43 p.m.: "They gotta get that f------ door open, bro. They can't get that door open. We need more keys or something," Arredondo says, according to body camera footage.

12:43 p.m.: The 911 caller inside room 112 asks for police to be sent in, according to McCraw.

12:46 p.m.: "If y'all are ready to do it, you do it, but you should distract him out that window," Arredondo says, according to body camera footage.

12:46 p.m.: The 911 caller inside room 112 says she can hear police officers next door, according to McCraw.

12:47 p.m.: The 911 caller inside room 112 again asks for police to be sent in, according to McCraw.

12:47 p.m.: A sledgehammer is brought in from the east hallway, according to school surveillance.

12:50 p.m.: Officers from the Border Patrol tactical unit breach the classroom door using a set of keys acquired from a school janitor. Officers shoot and kill Ramos in classroom 111, sources told ABC News. Officers then immediately engage in a "rescue operation," Escalon said Thursday.

McCraw said at a June 21 hearing that the classroom door was never locked throughout the incident.

1:06 p.m.: Police report that the suspected shooter was killed by officers at the scene after they broke into the classroom.

^^^THIS^^^

No, I'll wait on the DPS Investigation. The report yesterday was a regurgitation of what we already knew.

But wait, it came from a very reliable and accredited agency...Advanced Law Enforcement Rapid Response Training Center (ALERRT) at Texas State University. Are these not the people that specialize in active shooter training for LEO departments? I would consider their report unbiased. The people that published this report are SME. not MSM or politicians. I don't expect anything more substantial from the DPS with the exception of body cam footage.

ALERRT

ALERRT Report

Best Answer in the last few lines. Yes kinda a DA for asking permission but if he wasn’t competent in his shot


A reasonable officer would conclude in this case, based upon the totality of the circumstances, that use of deadly force was warranted. Furthermore, the UPD officer was approximately 148 yards from the west hall exterior door. One-hundred and forty-eight yards

LAW ENFORCEMENT RESPONSE ASSESSMENT 14
is well within the effective range of an AR-15 platform. The officer did comment that he was concerned that if he missed his shot, the rounds could have penetrated the school and injured students. We also note that current State of Texas standards for patrol rifle qualifications do not require officers to fire their rifles from more than 100 yards away from the target. It is, therefore, possible that the officer had never fired his rifle at a target that was that far away. Ultimately, the decision to use deadly force always lies with the officer who will use the force. If the officer was not confident that he could both hit his target and of his backdrop if he missed, he should not have fired.

I know where it came from and it offers insight into the actions of officers on the scene, it doesn't answer why, other than the time line posted by Stub shows that the ISD Chief was in charge and apparently in full control. I have said from day one the actions taken were not correct for the situation and kids perished because of the extended time to eliminate the shooter and start life saving treatment. I'd like to know why the ISD Chief turned this from an active shooter to a barricade situation, clearly he lacks tactical experience and he should not have been leading the response to the school, other than maybe outside staging responding officers. If you are waiting for me to condemn the officers in ways you have, you are wasting your time, I believe a ton of mistakes were made in Uvalde but I don't see anything intentional or cowardly, the officers were in the hallway under fire.

You're so full of yourself. I loop you into the same classification as the officers on site that day.

Unfortunately, LEO's can't hardly take a chit these days without fear its a decision that may come back to haunt them.

And kids were in the room getting shot to pieces. You should go have a group hug with officers that sat out there doing nothing while one kid after the next died. Its actually disgusting

What is REALLY disgusting is all the Internet heroes who claim to know all the answers.

You should sit in a dark room and set a timer for the amount of time those officers sat out there without going in under the assumption that every shot heard was a child lost. Count up the shots and let us know how you felt during that exercise. Defend away, justify away, it's just pathetic what went on.

Do they carry FMJ ammo and can it penetrate cinder block? Also, are their rifles scoped?

Have you even taken the time to read my posts? I would seriously doubt it since I was one of the first to post the response was wrong and the waiting cost lives. I am interested in only holding the actual guilty at fault. Stating that every officer responding to the Uvalde scene is responsible for the results, is not very intelligent or honest.

In my experience the department decides on the ammo, if the rifle is scoped, iron sight, or red dot type sight. I have never observed a patrol officer qualify farther than 100 yards and most were from 50 yards. Most of these smaller department qualify once a year, with 30-50 rounds, and then the rifle rides around in the unit until next year.....training costs money, and many believe the police are being given too much money as things are now. The media condemns officers EVERY TIME they take a life and many police officers are being prosecuted for action that use to be considered normal. The public also condemn police on social media and many in America support BLM and Antifa.....you believe police don't take pause before shooting these days?

I'd say 150 yards without a scope would be stretching it, though, seeing someone running toward a school with a rifle might push me to try. We only had one day training in the Air Force. shot a "simulated" 100 yards that was realy 25 yards with .22 ammo.

The ones that actually went in in a timely manner arent the ones anyone is talking about. When you have a flat tire do you thank the other 3 for having air? We are all talking about the flat tires.

A good experienced shooter could have and probably would have taken the shot, especially if they had foresight of what was about to happen. There are probably many folks here who are great shots, practice often, and know their own and their rifle's limitations. A 150 shot with a 2-3 minute of angle red dot on a stock Ar15 is a little more of a challenge than with a 2500.00 bolt gun with a 1500.00 scope.

At least one member here has stated on numerous occasions that every officer on the scene that day should lose their jobs and be prosecuted......

I've always hunted with a $250 winchester model 70 in .270 with a $75 simmons scope. It's wicked accurate. Just gotta know your gun.

Concho...I stand behind everything I have posted (fired and prosecuted). Kids died that day because no one did their job until it was too late.

Throw in an officer who hasn't shot that rifle much, and a school full of kids as a backstop, I can definitely understand some hesitation.

We had to qualify with an M16 before going to Korea. (83) I also had to qualify with a 38 because I previously guarded the classified vault.

Prosecuted for what? What Charge? And support your answer.

I'm not saying I'm a great shot, but I can run IPSC plates from 50 yards all the way out to 300 with a 10.5" SBR with an Aimpoint T1 2MOA RDS. From 50-200 there is little to no change in hold at 300 you have to hold on the neck area for center mass hit. Also at 150 yards I really don't think 5.56 would penetrate a cinderblock wall unless maybe they were steel core penetrators, which I'm pretty sure the police don't use. I would have taken the shot, because I don't think I could have lived with myself if I didn't.

At the 22 matches we have every month we have new shooters hitting steel at 350 yards with 22LR, shooters that have never shot past 50 yards with a 22LR. All it takes is a little practice with your rifle to be confident in it. I'd say these LEO's need more practice 10 times out of 10 you take that shot.

They all just keep contradicting themselves. What a [censored] show!

DPS burned a lot of bridges with this one.

Yes sir, they did.

Uvalde mayor is calling people out. This is about lawsuits. He don’t want Uvalde bankrupted.
Abbott don’t want this in his lap so close to election. The Uvalde isd will be disbanded.

A lot of folks F -k up before they got in a huddle and came out with a game plan. Now it is everyone for themselves.

Video

This guy gets it.

Shameful, just shameful.

This makes me sick.

Just watched the cliff notes version on Austin American Statesman. Horrible.

No way I could watch it with sound. No way.
Kids screams were muted.

Wtf!!! The one guy goes over and gets hand sanitizer and rubs on his hands as the shooter is down there killing kids! Get the F out!

I saw a couple vaginas on that short clip of film

Its gonna take a lot more than sanitizer to get the blood off those officers hands.....

SMFH

99% of the time you probably don't need hardened LEO's on a school campus. It would seem obvious that schools must have a plan in place that includes nearby LEO's responding quickly during that remaining 1% of the time.

Earlier this week I spoke with the Mayor of a nearby community where five of our schools are located. He told me no one from our local school system has contacted his office to begin putting together an Active Shooter Response Plan that includes use of their officers. As was likely the case in Uvalde, I suspect any response by local LEO agencies outside the school officers will be "ad hoc".

Thankful I work for a district that has armed staff and police presence.

Wow that is sad and pathetic response. The video of the school shooting starts at 1:30 minutes into the video.

Simply unbelievable.
How do you have nearly 2 dozen officers armed to the teeth and with shields standing in a hallway doing NOTHING while a sick sonofabitch is continuing to kill innocent children and teachers.............HOW?!

What really chaps me off is how easy the shooter got into the building. Schools need to be treated just like TSA check points.

@Concho...where ya at? Cat got your tongue? These are your people right?

This is a longer version that is all video of the shooting which starts at 53 seconds into it. It is hard to watch or listen to because of all of the shooting it has in it before and after the police got there.
Again it is so hard to fathom why those policemen did not aggressively act sooner?

Yup
Far too often even supposedly secured doors are far from it. It has happened at my wife's school with an exterior door had a bad closure on it. I told her not to tell anyone verbally about it but instead email it to the principal. She did and it was fixed that same day with a new closure installed on it.

The bottom line is that if there is glass in these exterior doors and it is not bullet proof there IS NOT SECURITY. I don't give a damn how well that steel door locks if you can break out the glass with a small hammer, rock, whatever and reach right inside and pull the panic bar towards you then you are in. They either need to use solid steel doors or only bullet proof glass for all exterior doors to schools!

@ 11:37...get in the gawd damn fight!!!

Well one thing is for sure, if the politicians run the show- all they will do is try to pass a lot of gun control laws. Pat themselves on the back and go on to something else. Totally a waste of time. Maybe there ought to be some citizen discussion groups/ town meetings where everyone discusses all options. None of these shooters wanders into a police station to shoot it up- they prey on the unarmed and defenseless. Since everyone wants to help stop this- plenty of man power, just need some leadership. I still think an all volunteer group (that is- won't raise taxes) of citizens assigned by local police to sit in school halls as guards might work.

100% agree. Retirees with clean back ground checks would be a perfect resource pool.

I refuse to debate it any longer, said from Day 1 the response was incorrect, said the ISD Police Chief had a bunch of questions to answer, but I refuse to condemn every officer on the scene that day like you and others have.....everyone there will have to live with their decision, I have said numerous times that I know what I would have done, been there, I would have most likely been asking for forgiveness after the fact for violating the chiefs orders.

What stands out.

3 minutes is exaggeration. Kids probably being shot at 11-33-34. Saw first officer at 11-35-57.
Closer to 2-45 seconds. No need to exaggerate this to 3 minutes.

Only two officers went fully down hall. They were doing pretty good at first.
Those two were in fight mode. I’m not sure, my phone screen is small. But looks like tan officer had on a helmet. Maybe not. Might have been hit in helmet.

Those two, took on fire and retreated. Which is natural to move back. I’m ok with that.
But, they should have regrouped right then and went back.

It's called spineless cowards

Meanwhile, 5000 people have been killed in car wrecks since this incident and nobody GAF. This whole thing has been nothing but a way for the democrats to legislate more gun control. That's why this is still in the news everyday.

You’re right about that.

Pretty convenient huh? They got a little more out of it, and they’ll get a little more out of the next one.

Really odd comparison.

those look like some fat azz scared cops. i think they have body armor on but still? dont departments have a fit for duty weight? bad deal fo sure.

The failures seen have nothing to do with their weight or physical fitness.

Those big boys moved pretty quickly when they were shot at.

After finally seeing some video....only one word comes to mind
Cowards. It’s really that simple.

There may have been some cowardice involved but another factor was that the Chief of Police had pretty much issued a stand down order in that he thought (in error) that the situation was a 'Barricaded Subject' situation and not a 'Active Shooter'.

Not sure how that idiot came to that conclusion or overlooked what is supposed to be the current approach everywhere (which is IMMEDIATELY engage the shooter and stop the threat) no matter what!

Any and every LEO is supposed to do this in an active shooter situation and especially a school shooting.

You don't wait for back up.
You don't wait for permission.
You address the threat as best you can as quickly as you can.

Coming from one of the biggest, strongest, and most humble LEO’s in the field. Listen to what this man says.

16 year olds are handed the keys to automobiles, and they drive them well into their 90's.

Yet car wrecks kill many, many times more people per year than firearms do. Democrats do not want to ban cars and trucks, or increase the age to get a driver's license. Gun control has nothing to do with saving lives.

Yes, Sir.

Marc

That is a good point.

I've not had time to watch the video yet but I'm guessing it shows why there was resistance to relasing it?

The car wreck totals brings up a good point. The President of the United States said "we are the only country that has these mass shootings" LOOK ON THE NET. We are tied with England at number 15. France and Finland are ahead of us. While these shootings arouse huge emotions, when grouped with all crime, the numbers shrink dramatically. I don't know what the answer is but this idea of rules on NEW GUN SALES. As I said, have any of these mass shootings occurred from someone THAT JUST BOUGHT the gun? I myself don't know but I thought in most instances the gun had been in a parent's procession, etc. for years.
I'm retired. I like the volunteer retired idea. I can sit at McDonald's drinking a cup of coffee and doing crossword puzzles, or do the same thing in a school. THOUSANDS of other retired guys can say the same thing. As long as you are cleared by local police and are under their direction- I don't see the problem. Plenty of man power.

More people are killed with firearms per year via suicide, not murder.

Intentionality being the difference of the two.

Yep.

The only way it could have looked worse was for one of them to have eaten a sandwich while waiting

The officer seen on the phone was trying to contact his wife , who was killed.

Can’t imagine not going to my wife’s class first.

If my wife had been inside that building I’d killed anyone and everyone trying to stop me on my way to get to her, him standing thr trying to call her seems insane to me. I might have been shot and killed but no way in hell I’d sat outside wondering what’s going on. Some have courage, some have no fear and some simply don’t give a chit and I’m the third. Cowards have a warm place in hell reserved as far as I’m concerned,,,,,

One officer who's wife was killed was disarmed and detained. I don't know if that is the one in the picture being discussed.
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/ne...was-detained-as-he-tried-to-17256559.php

“We've got an officer, Officer Ruiz, whose wife called him and said she had been shot and she was dying,” McCraw said. “And what happened to him, is he tried to move forward into the hallway. He was detained, and they took his gun away from him and escorted him off the scene.”

I think its the officer in the top right corner of the video right around the 3:17 mark, Notice fellow officers do not take their hands off of him.

I’ve never thought it made sense for suicide numbers to be included in gun violence statistics.

Through Covid-19, the CDC confirmed they are not to be trusted, same as the FBI.

Disgusting. Those [censored] wouldn't help a man try to save his dying wife and the other kids?

Don’t know if that officer had kids but if not and his wife had been shot, they could have just let him take the lead if they weren’t going to do anything anyways. He had nothing to lose at that point. So many sad stories from this event

It was him per this article.
https://policetribune.com/the-uvald...-was-awaiting-message-from-wounded-wife/