Is it okay to go fishing for evidence?

Ancestry.com says no.

id say bs story for PR

Oh it’s happening. Question only is how fast this gets to SC. Then question is who will SC side with????

Yes yes, we know. If you don’t have anything to hide, there should be no issue. That has nothing to do with situation.

Detectives need to do their jobs! Instead of fishing for leads.

I’m not taking a side either way but how is this them not doing their job? They have dna evidence and are trying to match It to someone therefore they tried to get access to a large dna database.
Sounds to me like doing their job is exactly what they’re doing by trying to use every resource possibly available.

we dont think they are only available to the detectives do we.
Sergey brin co founder of google, married to
Anne Wojcicki founder of 23 and me (dna harvesting), she is sister to
Susan Diane Wojcicki CEO of you tube.

Thats a cozy little bed they have their. The corruption has been exposed , I dont need to repeat it. We do know how cozy google has been with china

Is that a serious question?

If Supreme Court doesn’t like It then fine, that’s how case law is made. Thinking outside the box is how smart criminals are caught though.

Is that a serious question?

Law enforcement will get it and health insurance companies will too............if the world keeps spinning.

What would Investigator SA Hunter have them do?

You hiding something boy??????????

SA Hunter just sounds guilty

Hey Chris, tell them about probable cause.

If you willingly give your dna to someone its all on you. you've been warned,.

They can get your DNA out of your trash can. They just did it in a Robert Crais book that I'm reading.

I suspect the Supreme Court is going to view DNA much like fingerprints where detectives are limited to finding matches in government databases and view private databases as being covered by the Privacy Act. Otherwise, they obtain directly from the individual with probable cause.

No fishing.

Yep

If you are going to a private source for DNA what is your probable cause that the DNA you are looking for is in the private sources databanks? If your probable cause is you have gone through all public/government DNA databanks without a hit and this is just more databanks to search for a hit then you are fishing and have no PROBABLE CAUSE. The 4th amendment is a protection against this. I am not saying that they are not doing their job by by trying to use these other databanks but I want Probable Cause not fishing. We have seen with what has been going on with the FBI that the courts have been abused and we know it has happened at the local levels as well.

Before it is said that I am anti law enforcement I am not! I have no problems with companies using the courts to protect our freedoms from over reach. The Patriot Act is a great example of a over reach and are we really safer because of it?

That’s how it’s viewed now. The police can only search a database for this type of info where someone has specifically chosen to make it public.Then it’s no longer private.

well said.

Yes Bill we all know or should know that they can get your DNA out of the trash because “You discarded the item” and the trash is public domain. However if you give your DNA to a private company you did it with some expectation of privacy usually made by the company.

Here is a news flash for you too Bill everything in books is not factual.

He lives in a pretend world

Look it up like I did. There are several examples.

https://komonews.com/news/local/gal...-of-young-couple-in-w-washington#photo-2

Not willingly giving DNA to the government... this is the problem.

Cartoons are the pretend world. You once complained that I was posting excerpts of book without pictures. I think it was just after I posted an excerpt from a book called Unbroken. Look that one up and get back to me about pretending.

I was given one of the DNA kits for Ancestry.com, I think it was. I decided to do what my friends and family did not do before they submitted their samples. I read ALL the fine print. There is some availability to opt out of some of their databases, or to keep "some" of your personal data "private", but there is still exposure even if you check all the opt out boxes. It can go to other "third parties", which was not defined. Is that law enforcement (no issues with that), or other companies (why do THEY want my DNA sequence?). I got nothing to hide, but I didn't like the idea of a company having my DNA records, that they can share, for a few reasons. Not sure what their fine oprint says not - this was a couple years back. Just felt a tad invasive and I didn't like the language of the contracts' fine print. I decided not to do the samples.

I know they have caught criminals from the databases of these companies before, and read about a serial rapist that they nailed not too long ago based on a DNA sequence of one of his relatives.. That was a darn good ending! The guy thought he was free and clear and no evidence would ever bring him down...until it thankfully did!

It gets tricky, though. We don't really have "privacy" in the digital age, anymore. I'd love for every serious crime to be solved, and have justice brought to the forefront. In regards to the DNA stuff, lots of lines get blurred. I can see how people are on both sides of the fence on that one.

That's how they caught the Golden State Killer. I betting the Supremes say that in an public data base like the Ancestry that like a cup you discard on the street LEOs have a right to it

Are you tell in us that its not really a pretend world?

Been robbing banks since 2000 and always left a few hairs from someone else behind.....or maybe some chewing gum............I hear there was another bank robbery in Denison a couple of days ago. Some people got a lot of nerve to drive the same vehicle to 2 different stickups.

It's too late to close the door.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/201...den-state-killer-can-home-about-60-white

Just a matter of time.

Anyone who has not read about how this went - should read it. The gal who did the leg work is a real pro in the subject of DNA matching and found a close match to the killer's DNA. Her experience told her that she had found the killer's brother, so basic police work closed the loop on the fact that the good guy had a brother- so they backtracked his whereabouts to when the murders occurred.

It is indeed too late to close the door. The killer had never submitted his DNA anywhere and he was not on anyone's radar. DNA from a relative who was not involved - dramatically narrowed the search toward the killer.

heck folks are worried about being located , they are probably using it to clone also. I have also heard the quest for your dna is to get your frequency. Once your frequency is had you can be tuned into.

But, but, but,what about the presumption of innocence? Michael Brown was shot down in cold blood as he was running away hollering hands up, don't shoot.

It doesn’t work like that. Ancestry’s DNA database is not public.

But if you load your results on a public database and make it available for all to see then it’s public.

I'll echo what cbump said and yes, it's a serious question. Using all available resources and thinking outside the box to catch criminals is the very definition of doing their jobs. This area is somewhat uncharted so it's going to take some case law to establish parameters and acceptable protocol.

I have no concern if Parabon, at law enforcement's request, enters a suspect's autosomal DNA into GEDmatch, because I'm not a murderer or a rapist.

Agree. More importantly even if they do go after a private source with a valid warrant, there should be safeguards to ensure they cannot access the rest of the database that isn’t covered by the warrant.

Yes sir! Nothing to hide!

You go ahead and trust your government. After all, they’re here to serve you.

I’d rather not.

I am the government, at least for a few more months. I'm guessing you never have been.

I’m sorry but I have to disagree with you, you are not the government you are a part of the government bureaucracy! What too many people in this country have forgotten is THEY are the government not the Senators, Representatives, and those that work in the government agencies. Those people are our servants that are suppose to be there working on the behalf of the governed. It is this thinking that they are the Government and therefore can do whatever they want because it is for the best of the lowly governed and they know what is best for us that has gotten us where we are now.

No, I haven’t ever had the pleasure to serve in any capacity of the government let have often thought about it. I will support any law enforcement agency as long as they do whatever is needed to protect the public as long as it is within the bounds of the law and not go over it. I think it should be hard for them to do their jobs to protect us so the can not run roughshod over us. I know that there is no expectation for you to protect me and the courts have ruled that you have no legal obligation too. Therefore, I will not give up any of my rights/freedoms that have not already been given up for me on a presumed expectation of more safety. Once again I tell my government what I want from it not the other way!

You are certainly free to disagree with me. If you ever worked a cold case for 20 years with the mother of a little girl who was raped and murdered calling you every week to see where you were at with the case, and knowing he's still out there doing it lord knows how many more times, I suspect you might have a different perspective.

No Sir, I fully understand where you are coming from and wanting to put the scum away, give justice and closure to the family. I can not even start to image the stress of working those cases and I thank you, and every other detective, and beat officer for the jobs that y’all do. It is just my concern of where this leads us and by doing so what we do to future generations freedom.

What I mean by I want your job to be hard is that I want all laws to be followed and warrants for anything that is needed to be obtained so the case is as tight as can be so the people that committed said crime can not get off because it wasn’t done correctly. If information happens to fall into hands that is great as well as long as it is all legal. I want these people off the streets too and as a juror have no problem sending these people to prison for a long time or death if so justified and will lose no sleep doing it. I have just seen the cases where things weren’t done properly and the person got off or a DA hid evidence and innocent people were sent to person.

Once again Thank You for what you do and have done and I believe there are more good people doing your job than not. We are only human and are all fallible.

Right. End of discussion. I’ve never done your job. I’m not allowed to have an opinion of my rights. Carry on.

You mean like the search warrant that was obtained that started this entire discussion?

Yes, with out any probable cause! Therefore, we will let the court’s decision which may take a while and I’m good with that.

That was 3rd post of thread, we made it to what, page 4 or 5, before the nothing to hide “rational” came out. Pretty good.

4th amendment.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

QUOTE:
You are certainly free to disagree with me. If you ever worked a cold case for 20 years with the mother of a little girl who was raped and murdered calling you every week to see where you were at with the case, and knowing he's still out there doing it lord knows how many more times, I suspect you might have a different perspective. QUOTE

Your statement is very powerful and most everyone wants bad guys to be held accountable.

However: shouldn’t justice be without passion and prejudice? Decisions/ evidence based on emotion and passion are often the first step of flawed reasoning. Which leads to possibly wrongful convictions. People that are involved in cases and have passion/emotion often “just know” someone is guilty. Then often make the evidence fit what they know in their gut. I don’t have to point out how many cases of wrongful convictions we see recently.

What would be the “different perspective “ you mentioned above? If the common perspective has been stated that most want bad people held accountable, then what would be the “different perspective” you mention?

With folks freely giving their dna away and more freely giving their life movements away, its not called fishing anymore, its called catching. Yet, if you mention the kids or put lipstick on a pig , like the google loretta add, folks will ignorantly go along. Heres the google add that pulls at you heart strings (with pretty music and using the sick) to throw cover that they are tracking your life.They have told us it was their intention from the beginning. Its not just google either. Again , its stopped being called fishing long ago.... Its called a prison planet, if you have enough cash or are connected this does not pertain to you.

Live Now: AG Barr discusses US technology war with China

china ties in to the whole "catching" deal also

But....bad guys!!!

I posted about this before. Last year I was contacted by a woman who was a researcher who finds lost siblings, parents and extended family members. She represented a guy in the UK, through a DNA match she said we were related. She asked if I wanted to contact him and maybe share some information. I declined. It seemed my sister did a DNA test for ancestory.com, from there it got traced from her to him then me.

If anybody in your family has submitted a DNA test then your DNA is already out there. I might add that it's there for the world to see.

It seems my Gran dad did a little more than fighting during WWI.

Just think when they tie it all together..............smoking, drinking, red meat consumption, how fast you are driving and braking. you buy and shoot guns etc.....then they deny you insurance or jack the price to the moon

5g, blockchain, AI, Facial recognition with high def cameras EVERYWHERE(and all connected) and ending cash very soon...........Bazinga, they got you trapped in an open prison.

This aint conspiracy, its your new world.

I still want to know what this “different perspective” is.

All this is going on currently in china, all of it , yet its still called a conspiracy in America. Folks even miss the writing on the wall that china was being built up as the new super power by the past administrations for the last 30 years. Still a conspiracy theory.