Another E - collar ?

Looking at these 3:

SD 1825 - $290
Dogtra 3500 NCP Super X - $320
Garmin Pro 550 - $400

The SD 1825 is the cheapest of the three so obviously if it's good I'd like to get it. If the 550 is really worth $110 more then I'll get it.

First time using an e-collar and will only be training one dog.

I think range makes them cost more. You don't need range with a retriever.

Alot is preference of features. I will say that you have some drastically different collars listed there. Get on www.gundogsupply.com and look at the video reviews of each model and decide which features you like. For instance, the 550 is a tube style transmitter and the others are not. If you like the tube style I would add the Dogtra Edge RT to your list. I have both it and the 550 and IMO it beats the 550 hands down and costs $50 less. If you don't like the tube then look at the models that don't have it. Decide on range, expandability, etc. and then make your choice. For instance the 1825 and the 1225 in the SportDog line are the same with the exception of range and the ability to expand to 6 or 3 dogs but there is also a $50 difference. If you're not going to run six dogs off of one transmitter I would save the additional money. I only bring up these points due to the drastic differences in your choices.

Ok so I obviously do not have a clue when it comes to e-collars. I didn't realize there were so many different options and differences.

After reading some I think I'll be fine with a 1/2 mile or 3/4 mile range collar. I'm not sure what the difference is between the "tube" style and other style remotes.

I also do not need a 6 dog system.

Thoughts on these?

The SD 1225
The Garmin Delta XC

Or

Does anyone have a recommendation for a new trainer with one dog. I just want a quality and reliable collar.

I like tube style It is easier to get to in a hurry to make a correction. Timing is everything

Don't get the delta.

I bought the SD six years ago and it is still working like a charm. It has a posted 1-mile range but I doubt it would reach that far unless you had perfect conditions and a clear line of sight which is typically not the norm. All I have had to do is replace the batteries one time and Batteries + built me a set for the two collars and the transmitter for pennies compared to what the Collar Clinic was going to charge. I replaced them myself with no problems. The new batteries are alot better than the standard issue that comes with the collar. My collars have 16 different settings plus the tone and nick feature. It was cheap compared to Tri-Tronics, but it has served me very well considering. I have "buzzed' my dogs when I could barely see them at a quarter to half a mile and have turned them every time. My only suggestion is to do the battery maintenence and keep them charged year round.

2X
I would go with the Garmin Sport Pro over the Delta

I have the Garmin Delta SPORT XC and it has been fantastic so far. Does everything I want it to do. No issues here

I had the first delta and it was ineffective out past about 150 yards even on full blast.

All I've owned have been Dogtra.

I have a tube style transmitter (Tri-tronics Flyway Special) and really like it for training, but not for hunting. I would much prefer something smaller that hangs on a lanyard around my neck in hunting situations.

I'm on the fence about getting one because I've seen and heard of too many dogs that are smart enough to know when the collar isn't on they can blow off commands without there being punishment. I don't want to do the conditioning if my dog is smart enough to go that route.

They were trained wrong then.

I bought a SD 825 yesterday, it is a great, well built , EASY to use unit. I used it yesterday evening on Jessie (60# 9 month old Black Lab), only took the "1" setting to get her attention.

Happy with it so far but its brand new....

Unless you are at a trial or hunt test, (which by my recollection you stated you had no desire to do) there shouldn't be a time when your dog is working without the collar.

That's an easy fix. Put the collar on

dogtra or tri tronics. dont get sport dog.

I've had all three. Sold my two Pro 550's for Sportdog 2525's. I prefer the Sportdog brand over the others. The thing I like about the Sportdog is you have 9 levels of stimulation on the transmitter and you have 3 levels on the receiver. You don't get this with the others. You can fine tune your corrections more precisely with the Sportdog.

I've got a lab (that I haven't hunted with) but have been using an e-collar with for three years. I got a Sport Dog system that was around $200 at the time and is pretty basic. I don't remember the exact model, but I've loved it. Waterproof, rechargeable, a charge lasts for a long time, etc. for what I use it for, and see myself using it for in the future, it's great. I can add a dog in the future if I want, also.

Used my new 550 today and like it a lot.

SportDOG makes collars that really leave something to desire and their customer service is TERRIBLE. They won't replace a collar at all. Stay away from them if you have the chance.

Garmin bought out Tri-Tronics and is making all their products far more complicated than it has to be. Period. I want a knob to turn to the intensity and a button to push for that level of intensity. It's not hard, but they make it that hard. Much better quality than SportDOG, but still lacking.

Dogtra is where the market's going. They do simple to use collars in super, super high quality. I've never been upset with a Dogtra, never heard any body who was. You may spend more, but you'll be happier with it longer.

My Sport dog lasted just fine done everything it was supposed to. Why past tense cause dog found the receiver on a shelf one day and chewed the damn antenna off. not a model that has removable antennae. cant blame the company for that. Everyone has there ups and downs with various companies. When it comes down to it you have to decide will cheaper be actually "cheaper: or will buying exactly what you want to start with regardless of the extra cost save you grief money and sleep in the outcome!

I have 2 G2 Pro 100 transmitters, and 1 G3; 6 recievers, 0ne which is still in the package. They have all worked fine for the last 10 years. Hopefully they will last another 5-10.
They have 18 stimulation settings.

Robby

Same here!! The BEST!! When they go I've got Dogtra Edge Rt's in stock. That's one sweet collar..

Angie

Really?? There's not a dog out there that doesn't know when the collar is off or on. They're not stupid.

Angie

Hey, you're the pro.

Boom! Nail on the head.

Everything I ever read or was told was that you don't want your dog to become collar wise. Now I see they all are no matter what.

I'm not being a smartass though when I said you're the pro. You definitely know a lot more than me.

Just because they are a pro doesn't mean they are never wrong. Not saying she's wrong here but just saying.

In my opinion, being collar wise or trial wise is an excuse people use for a poorly trained dog.

Robby

Or a really hard headed smart one.

Never seen that in the same dog.

Robby

My 8 year old Lab is a completely different dog the minute I put the collar on.
I thought they were all that way because the are such smart dogs.
Most days I never hit the button but the second the collar comes off he gets selective hearing.

I use a Sport Dog 425. I have used it for 3 years with my retriever with no issues. The collar and transmitter are small and lightweight. Expect to pay about $190.00 for it.

Jay

I had several. If they saw a deer and ran it I would shock them. Later on if by chance they did not have the collar on they would still chase it. If they had the collar on they would stand and watch it run. Coincidence.... maybe but I think not. Collarwise yes but still hard headed enough to do what they want when it's off. Now I don't know any other way to break a dog from chasing deer otherthan Hi Intensity electro stimulation. Do you? (And I'm not being a smart alec. Serious question)

I would do it the same as I would snake breaking a dog. You'd have to be around enough deer that you could get enough corrections in to teach them they don't want to be around deer.

Robby

Maybe for some... I know dogs can choose to be compliant or not with or without the collar.

Angie

I reiterate what I have stated before. It is better to have the dog want to do what you want it to do than to force it through threat of pain. I understand in FT or hunt situational training sometimes we must ask more of the dog than what they would normally willingly do. And coercion through whatever type of re enforcement you might call it, positive or negative, by causing or threatening pain is the accepted way to do it.

So do you think that the dog "wants" to bring the prey that he just worked hard to get back to you or does he "want" to take it to his den and eat it himself?

I've been through Hillmann's puppy DVD and TRT. I can tell you right now that FF and the use of the e-collar are going to be my greatest challenges. I don't see anything wrong with the use of the e-collar though.

The desire to please is still there and when the dog knows what you want and does it how you want it you use the collar less and less.

I've decided on the camo version of the Dogtra Arc by the way.

Oh and "TRT2" was really good and I really enjoyed "Training a Retriever Puppy" and thought it was awesome.

I believe the dog does it out of the desire to please. A dog who gets satisfaction from praise and the bond between you and it tends to do what you want, including returning a downed bird. Much like we return to work on Monday after a paycheck on Friday because the reward keeps us going back for more. And if you are good at what you do and derive satisfaction from it the process becomes as crucial as the reward.

Are you the guy who always brags about his great dog and then finally gets to bring him along and he busts every covey and hunts for himself all day. After the hunt are you the guy that is still bragging on his dog talking about the drive he has to run all day. If you are I've hunted with you before.

Just like kids, if there is no fear of discipline, they will do the work as long as it suits them.

Robby

I can see you are unable to participate in a discussion without using insults and snide remarks to try to be little someone so you can bully them into submission.

I cannot disagree with you here, and also understand the usefulness of the ecollar for training. However I don't agree with it being something my dog wears all the time. If I have a dog that unwilling to comply, maybe that dog isn't suited to the needs of the owner.

The modern (I have used the old ones) e-collar is a fabulous training tool. Though it can be strapped on a dog with years of disobedience in order to comply, it is a much more effective tool, when brought alongside other tools from the start. You have the leash, check cord, pinch collar, healing stick, e-collar, training partners, bird launchers, lots of birds, time, patience, etc.. They are all needed. Let's also remember, a lot of championship dogs were finished before the e-collar even existed. Personally, I have finished a number of pointers and retrievers without the use of a collar at all. It is not needed. With that said, I am a huge advocate of e-collars. The lightweight size of current e-collars and the variability of stimulation make it a great tool.

Example: though I still use check cords, the e-collar has allowed me to move off of check cords earlier and has made it safer for my dog when training. Having a retriever or pointer drag a long check cord is a necessity for a time, but a hassle and dangerous in the long run.

Decades ago "collar conditioning" was having a dog get use to the weight of the collar. I even remember some heavy shock collars came with a weighted dummy collar. Today, "collar conditioning" is much more. It is bringing it into all the commands (sit, here, fetch, etc..) - without the dog vocalizing I must add. Additionally, it is used as pressure not discipline, similar to applying pressure with a pinch collar until a dog sits (or whoa).

I realize this thread was originally about what to buy but saw it drift a bit.

My $0.02

As someone who has never used an e-collar how do you decide what level to use?

Start low and just gradually increase till you get a reaction?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The guy that does the perfect start video said this

The Smart Work video showed how to collar condition and then continue in re-enforcing the training. They took the level up until the dog was yipping and kiyi-ing as it fought the cord to get to it's handler. Then they lowered it until the dog still did what it was required to with the least stimulation. As I've said, it seemed brutal but it did get the dog doing everything in it's power to quickly respond to the commands. Which is the goal.

Level to use for what? To to get a starting point? Start with the dog in a low stimulus environment and do what was said above.

Yes. There are some good videos online by Sportdog. They are done by Tom Dokken. Watch this video on "heel". About half way into the video he will tell you what to watch for (a head shake, slight discomfort, etc.) There should not be any vocalizing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Iqq-fB5DHY&list=PL0F4E92E5883CF0C6&index=7

He has videos on sit, whoa, stay, come, etc..

To address the question "Level to use for what?"

In Lardy's TRT he never addresses how to find what level you should use for your dog. He just states that each dog is different and you'll have to find what works with your collar and dog. As for the "what" it would be for the use in OB and collar fetch and forcing to pile.

I love the Garmin Alpha. Takes a little getting used to as there are so many functions, many that I never use. I love the ability to train and track with one collar. For quality, I don't think that you can beat Garmin.
Adios,
Gary

We generally collar condition on a 3. But we will introduce all the levels so the dog is familiar with them. That's a 3 on the old tri-tronics. We then will go lower or higher if the dog doesn't give a crisp response when the collar is applied. In the field when the adrenaline is higher so is the pain tolerance. Then we will habitually use a 5 in the field.

Angie

I just got a couple of emails from www.gundogsupply.com. There are rebates on Garmin and Sportsdog collars.

Jay

Well since I started this post I've changed my mind several times... haha. Im planning in the Dogtra ARC now.

I can beat the prices for the Sportdog & Dogtra collars. If anyone needs training supplies let me know. I can most generally beat all the big name online & stand alone stores.