Looking For Land

I have decided I want to start looking for a place of my own. I have never gone through this process so I am looking for some guidance from THF folks. Not sure where I want to look, but I know I would like something from 50-200 acres, undeveloped hunting property.

Can anyone suggest a website, broker or agent that I could look into to potentially find a piece of property?

Thanks in advance

Where are you looking to buy? What kind of improvements as far as water or electricity?

Check out landsoftexas.com

you need to nail down a budget, which will determine acreage size and then location/locations that you prefer

I'm a agent out of Bonham. What part of the world you looking to buy in?

looking to spend no more than $200K. I would ultimately like to look north and northwest and within 4 hours of North Houston but no opposed to going out a little further for the right deal.

Thanks

It's doable but your gonna be closer to 50 acres than 200 with that budget

Contact an agent and tell him what your looking for

would like to have water and electric and perimeter fencing. House/cabin fine but if not, plan on building own small cabin. Just looking for a small place for the family (Wife and 3 boys) to have for many years to come.

TT85, I realize that my acreage will go down with price I am willing to pay. Just looking around and maybe find that needle in a haystack??

That's gonna jump the price

I sold a guy a place in real county this year with a cabin,electric no well.

53 acres for around $150k but that's about 5-6 hours from Houston

Land sales is like this; you either build it yourself or buy what's on the market, you can't walk up to a window and order up a ranch or farm you take what's out there or you build it or you don't get a place

To be honest, $200k is not a large budget and its gonna limit your choices pretty good

Is this a cash buy or finance?

I totally understand...I am trying to learn as I go since I have never done this before. This would be an all cash purchase. I know I will be limited on the size of place within that budget, especially if it has any improvements whatsoever. I am just looking for advice and and where to turn to so I can do my research. If it isn't possible, I will just have to continue leasing and saving.

My advice would be to talk to a lender and increase your budget

Land is not getting cheaper and interest rates are low
Buy a bigger piece and sell off what you don't want to trim the fat

Thanks, I may end up doing that. Thanks so much for the info.

You need to look everyday on craigslist for a fsbo. Don't skip a day and get your financing in order. A deal will come up every 6 months but if its a deal it will go quick. Start looking at properties even if they don't fit your criteria 100%. You will see whats out there and what is most important to you. Im not opposed to realtors I just don't like paying retail for anything. Pm if you have any questions.

a buyers agent dosent' cost you anything and if they are worth a darn they know of property for sale that is not on the open market, in the thrifty nickel or on craigslist

Sign up with txtrophy85 to represent you. Give him a reasonable time to find you what you want. I can assure you that you will be much better off with a competent and honest agent working for you. You have a much higher likelihood of finding what you want within your budget, get help with financing, and assist you putting a contract together. There are properties not "on the market" that you'll never see without an experienced agent's knowledge of the market. Or you can waste a bunch of time and neglect what you do for a living and still never find anything. Just my opinion.

"a buyers agent dosent' cost you anything"

That right there is a crock of steaming

If a realtor is involved on either side there is a 3-6% mark up in price.

PLUS, most realtors will gently nudge you to THEIR listed properties. They have a 3% incentive to do that. What the pro realtor guys say is true that some places aren't listed. But the good deals won't be shown to the average joe. They keep pocket buyer (buddies), OR if they're successful enough, they snap up the best deals themselves.

Sorry to be a Debbie downer but those are the facts, and I have no financial reason to spread a line of BS.

Your first and most important step is to do research yourself. Start with EVERYTHING. Landsoftexas.com, Texasrealestatemagazine.com, newspapers, craigslist, realtor flyers, etc.

That's how you'll find what you want and where you want it. And most importantly you'll learn for yourself what is a good deal in the area you nail it down to.

The advice they've given on buying more with cheap financing is sound. Just make sure you can service the note. Fed land bank and farm credit banks are the best but your second step (can be done simultaneously with the first) is shop for cheap money.

Good luck and don't ever let someone with a financial interest in your bidness blow smoke up ur tookuss.

You can get land for a little over $1000 an acre in liberty county from the lumber companies.

It'll be accessed via easement and if you want to put a real house on it, probably not suitable. Just pointing out that you can get a lot of land for 200k if you're will to put in the time to make it nicer.

You should also get out in the area your interested in buying in and talk to people. I went and looked a property last fall that was listed with a realtor. I liked the property so started doing some research on it which means I'm talking to all the neighboring property owners for info. I learned some things that the realtor told me were not correct, but more important I was given a tip about another property owned by a widow from dallas. I closed on that property a month later.

I don't know who you were doing business with in the past but you have been jaded pretty bad

You know who taught me those lessons. You defended him. Thought his methods were legit.

I defend no one or any ones methods.

I defend what is right over wrong, no matter who it is.

Has there been some shady real estate deals that have took place? absolutely. But every time someone asks about buying land its all "don't trust the realtor, its better to go it alone"

I would venture a guess that 90% of all rural land sold in texas has at least one broker involved. if they were so bad, they would cease to exist.

More people get screwed by not using one that those that do.

Not everyone has the time, experience, or knowledge that you have therancher. Brokers/agents exist for a reason. That is to provide knowledge and guidance to those that need it or don't have the time to devote to finding what they want. Should they work for free? There are crooks and unethical people in every business. There are also honest hard working people in every business. Just because you got screwed doesn't mean you need paint everyone with such a broad brush. Do you think Hunter11 is familiar with ranch properties 4 hrs from where he lives? Probably not. If someone can find him what he wants and save him time and work, that is worth something. And no, I'm not a broker or agent and I don't even play one on TV. I am however staying at a Holiday In Express next week.

I agree with TT. Every industry has crooks and worthless people that work in them. That is why you check references. Unless you are knowledgeable on the land, do your research extensively, have contacts, or have deep pockets, I would hire someone that knows the business and can get you in contact with the right people. So many people attempt to do things that others do for a living. The way I look at it, most people don't realize they didn't do as well as they thought they did..until they see what the professional side of it can do. But as long as they keep their blinders on, they are happy with what they have.

Let me start by saying that I have done business with txtrophy85 (though deal never happened) and he is absolutely NOT who I'm talking about. Works hard, responsive, obviously looking out for his client's best interests.

The reason real estate agents get a bad rep is that so many of them do act in the fashion that therancher described. I've been part of maybe half a dozen rural land transactions, and thus far, I have dealt with 1 agent I'd say was good or very good. The vast majority of them just want to get the sale done so they can get paid.

It's just frustrating as a buyer or seller when the person that's supposed to be representing you will look you in the eye and say it's a fair price, and then you have them pull the comps and not a single parcel in the surrounding 50 square miles has ever traded at that level. How are you supposed to consider them competent? They're either lying to your face to facilitate the sale or they're so stupid they shouldn't be licensed.

That's why real estate transactions fall squarely into the 80/20 rule. 80% of the business will be done by 20% of the agents because that's who actually is qualified to be a real estate broker.

With all that said, I still wouldn't transact without one unless you've done quite a bit of homework and have experience. Lots of stuff you can miss. You can usually find the good local agents by simply looking at who has all the listings. That's not "can't miss", but it's a pretty good indicator.

Here's a good litmus test:

You should be able to ask your agent what comps in the area sold for and get an answer (that you can verify) without them even going to a computer.

When determining my most recent ask price, I asked my guy what bottomland hay pastures had sold recently, and he rattled off 3-4 (giving specific locations) including their attributes (pond, live creek, parcel size, open meadow, any woods) without hesitation. If a real estate agent is interested in their job, they'll follow what transactions are occurring by talking to other agents even if it's not their listing.

this is true. same really with any business that is sales or production based.


Also, do your research on finding the best broker, then put your trust in him.

If I got sick I would spend my energy finding the best that specialized in that area, not trying to find a cure for myself based on what I was able to find on the internet or down at the coffee shop.

I don't disagree with anything you said. However, assuming that it takes a REA to do those things with ONLY your best interest in mind is flat out wrong. ANYONE can do it today and the individual buyer/seller is the only one with ONLY their interest in mind.

That's why I and others outlined steps for him to take.

That's why I told him to "learn the business". If you can get an REA license in how many weeks, do you not know that pretty much anyone can do it and do it well.

I took two years to research before I bought my first ranch. Bought it with an REA. But I've pretty much forgotten more about ranch RE than most wet behind the ears agents know. And the best deals I've gotten were conducted sans REA's (both buying and selling).

Here's another "litmus test".

If an REA tells you "a buyers agent dosent' cost you anything", you know he's capable of blowing lots of smoke.

Well then, let me refresh your memory.

In '96 I found a ranch that was perfect, $350/acre near Crystal. Went and visited it Sunday am. Told realtor I would make an offer.

Called Monday am to schedule another visit to offer $325/acre, and asked if it would be ok to make it Friday because of work (I lived 5 hours away). (gotta remember that this is before electronic advances of today). "No problem" he said and he noted that it had been for sale for a year. What I noticed on his "VHS" video was that he had listed it at $450/acre a year before. This ranch was never listed anywhere but the local crystal city rag that I had picked up in Uvalde.

Called Wednesday to firm up time for Friday visit/offer. Was told that a "contract had been signed". I asked if he'd told the seller about me and he assured me that he had.

Since I had visited the neighbor I called and got the landowners name and number. Called and he said he had not signed the contract, had NEVER been told about me, but that he had given his word so he would do that deal. Then he volunteered that he took $315/acre.

Condensed, Lanning had a pocket buyer, lied by omission to the seller and used me to set the low price.

NOW, when I told you that story months ago, you stated you saw nothing wrong with that MO. How you reconcile that with what is stated in red above is your business.

But, there are RE ethics and fiduciary responsibilities that would counter your opinion.

And that's why now, when I visit a ranch, I'm there with a contract in hand and a lawyer to offer it.

Lol, your right, lawyers are the most scrupulous individuals out there.

If the story happened exactly like you tell it, then the landowner was done a major disservice as well as you and I agree, that he had used you to set the price. That is wrong.

But, if memory serves the story you told originally had some slight variations to it.

I had that exact experience, therancher. Even worse when you consider it included minerals and is smack dab in the Eagle Ford.

List price was $5500 per, I did my research and found that land was generally trading between $2700 and $3500 per acre, but most of the asking prices were north of $4k. I told the selling agent I'd pay $3000 and he laughed me out of the truck and said land "would never sell at that price in this county again". This was long before the Eagle Ford boom, fyi.

After calling me with lowering prices about once a week for a month and a half, the seller would take $3100 per. I was fine with that, wrote up the offer, told the realtor to have it back to me in a couple days. A week passes and I don't hear anything and my calls aren't returned.

Finally get a hold of the agent and he's shocked and dismayed to tell me a cash buyer had taken the property. I ask the sales price, he says $3000 per. I tell him no biggie, I'll pay $3250, he says that it's already closed and he's not willing to discuss the issue further.

Guess whose buddy bought the place after I negotiated it down to a level he said "would never happen again in this county"? Guy was my agent too. Insanely unscrupulous.

Ha, I've never been treated as badly by a lawyer as I have an REA.

And no, the story doesn't change. Jake and Buck Lanning played it exactly that way.

Yep. That's why I don't use REA's unless I absolutely have to. It is a common MO and it is a shame the Texas RE Commission doesn't crack down on that BS. I guess the RE commission is made up of those brokers, or are paid off by them.

I will add that since I adopted the "pocket lawyer" and immediate contract offer, I haven't taken it in the shorts again.

Hmmmmm....I guess I have a lot of learning to do. I really didn't mean to open a can of worms on anyone, was just asking for advice.

Thanks

Haha, this happens all the time.

Good luck on your search. As mentioned, you can find some of the timber company land for pretty cheap within a couple hours of Houston.

Did y'all go through the formal complaint process with TREC on these instances?

I guess they've cracked down on stuff like this since the Betamax/VHS days, but it seems as if there is almost an adversarial relationship to protect the public interest by the regulating authorities right now. I can't imagine there would not be an investigation at a minimum. I have no reason to doubt you and may just be using a 2014 frame of reference for a 1980s or 90s incident.

I can assure you mine was reported and nothing was done.

I don't know this but based on Cameron's pricing his was in the last 5 years.

There is always a can of worms in RE. And after all I've said, if you aren't willing to do the work/research then even I would advise you to try and find a REA that you could trust.

My points are:
1. You can get REALLY BURNED by dealing with REA's.
2. You can save yourself a LOT of money and heartache if you're willing to work.
3. ANYONE can do it. With today's technology it's a ton easier than when I started, and I'm no rocket surgeon.

If you are just trying to save 3-6% of your purchase price then the amount of work you will do might not be cost effective. YOU have to determine that cost analysis.

In my case, I was wanting to build wealth and end up with a large stack of ranchland. So, I was/am in it for a lot more than 3-6%.

I've been burned twice.

once I was on a ranch in Maverick county. Guy came up to me and asked if I could help him sell his place in Dimmit. If I did he would give me 5% commission.

a few months go by, I have a guy in my truck with his broker and we look at a few places, nothing fits. we drive over to his ranch in Carrizo Springs and they fall in love. we verbally reach an agreement and I type it up THAT DAY, buyer signs and I send it to him, they confirm they got it and said they would sign and send it back. One day passes, two days pass, on the third day I call them up and they said they have put it under contract with another party. Turns out he had a buyer and he used me to get a price set.

on another deal out in Pecos County, a buddy of mines dad was looking for land with CRP income on it. I find him a ranch and we go look at it. it was listed FSBO, with a 3% commission going to a broker. Talked to the guy on the phone, go look at the ranch, he likes it. We verify the CRP, DCP programs on it and put it under contract with a 14 day option.

Day 12 comes and buyer backs out saying he didn't think the CRP was going to be renewed and wants to exercise his option. No problem, we cancel the contract.

a few months go by and I get a call from my buddy, seems his dad wants me to swing by the office and talk about his ranch in Pecos County that he bought. I start asking him questions about the place, to make a long story short, after he canceled the contract a week later he called the owner and they reached a deal that was exactly the same price less my commission.

Even buyers and landowners can be chitty, its not just Brokers and Agents

Without a doubt.

I'm definitely a total scumbag.

Do you leave a pile of goo where ever you go?

If so that's pretty scummy

Rancher, it is confusing to me you told him to look on Lands of Texas, real estate magazines and realtor flyers. I assure you 99% of those properties are listed by a realtor. So he calls the listing agent who represents the seller and has a 6% interest in not looking out for his interest. You have given out extremely poor advice. My wife is a realtor and a great one. I find people like you offensive to say the least. You may know a lot about a bunch of things but apparently real estate ain't one of them. I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but there is a very small percentage of realtors like that.

Hunter11, do your own research on the above mentioned websites to narrow down the area you want and what the going rates are in that area. Lands of Texas is great, you can search by county and price range. This way you are more informed about what types of properties are available and cost. Then get you a realtor to do the finding and searching. It will be very beneficial I promise you.

I'm very pleased to offend you evco.

I told him to look at those sources for RESEARCH. Not necessarily to use the rea's. Just like your last paragraph states (except of course for the last two BS sentences).

I've done alright in ranch RE. Regardless of your opinion. Sorry to bust your bubble.

Make sure you walk the whole property before you make a call. My dad wanted about 20 acres. I found this one piece in trinity county (40 acres). We called the realitor, she said she couldnt make it out there the day we wanted to go look at it (sunday), so we asked her to call the owners and he said go ahead. When we drove up to the front gate, all we saw was pasture. The ad. for the property said 4 acre lake and showed many large oaks on the pics. I was mad. Dad wanted to turn around and leave, but I said I wanted to walk the place first. I climbed the fence (with permission) and walked the pasture with cows following. When I got to the end of the pasture, I called dad and told him he better come to where I was. 20 minutes later he was on the phone talking to the agent working on a deal. He retired 4 years later and is out there every chance he has. Its beautiful, great neighbors, good deer, great experience for the kids and grandkids and an outstanding 4 acre pond. Good luck on your search. Its very rewarding when it pays off. Only drawback is a timber company owns some surrounding property that they cut a few years back, but that just gave me an opportunity to plant trees in the pasture. The best part about it is that it is ours. We make the calls. Nobody else. once again good luck.
Here is the agent that we went through to get the place. carolyn@navasotarealtyinc.com

I found my property on Lands of Texas. I researched for two years to find what I wanted. I did not use a buyer REA, but the seller's listing agent was helpful in getting the deal closed. I ended up offering 72% of asking price, and counter from seller was 74% of original ask. I could not find any comps in the area, but used an average price of land sales by county in Texas, and trends shown there to arrive at an offer price.

This is exactly how I found my land. Super great deal posted at 2am Christmas eve. Drove out at 8 in the morning on Christmas eve told him I wanted it. Took me about 5 weeks to obtain financing through Capital Farm Credit. "I highly recommend them"

In my young life 27 years, I have done 2 real estate deals. 1 my first home and 2 110 acres. I didnt use a realator on either one, dealing direct with the title company, nothing was real difficult. Both properties were somewhat distressed the land much more than the house, but I honestly dont see a need for a realator on any part of it. I can market the same way a realator can...Hell I'm in sales. I can post adds to the internet ect. Word of mouth travels pretty fast as well. I do agree that its pretty crappy that people used you just to save some money. IMO they hired you to be their advocate no matter the outcome. If they would have done everyhting on their own which IMO they should have there never would have been an issue. I know that my research and time that I put into looking for property/finding financing options are worth way less than the 15k in closing costs saved

It's like anything you might buy, car, boat, house, etc., it's always in the buyers best interest to do their homework first, and foremost. Then, speak to several professionals, check references and decide if their services would be beneficial for you. Even going to buy a car, without first, doing your homework, is like pasting a sign on your forehead that reads 'sucker', and well, you are obviously starting to do your homework, and that's definitely the right direction. Good luck.

Poker, let me ask you this:

you said you bought 110 acres FSBO. I'm curious to what county but that is more for my own curiousity.

anyway....you bought 110 acres of rural property.....did you have an attorney review the contract? who wrote the contract? How do you know what the current market value was for that sized acreage that you were looking at? Who looked over the schedule B exceptions to title coverage on the policy? did the property have any easements, issues/defects that can adversely affect the value of the property? how old was the survey?

As a buyer, I would never go it alone since it doesn't cost me anything.

The 110 acres I bought is in Archer City, in Archer County. As far as the contract my representative through capital farm credit provided a basic contract to protect both parties. The property was a distressed sale and I bought the acreage well below market value. Not going to go into numbers but the place 2 places to the south was sold in November for more than mine and it was just 47acres. As far as schedule B Travis Thorne who I will speak very highly of with Capitol Farm Credit as well as Archer Title handled everything and was top notch. In buying the property I was provided the original contract from when he bought it and we followed a lot of things in it. The property does have an electrical easement. As far as adversely affecting the price of the property it came with 3 shipping containers 40ft hiboys. 1 empty 1 full of tools and one full of stuff that I have since sold on eBay for right at 7000. It also came with a 72in diesel 0 turn, and 2 32 ft FEMA trailers. It also included a 2008 enclosed trailer and a 2010 equipment trailer. Which I recieved title on all but mower and containers. For my benefit I paid 450$ and had it resurveyed into 2 55 acre tracts running east and west splitting my property for exit strategy in the future. I'm less than a mile from town and electricity was at the rd. No well or water though. It had one existing pond when I bought it. It also had new fence in 2011 on 2 sides. His survey was from 08 if that matters. As far as mineral rights I didn't get them. They were last sold in 1958 and held by a firm in Pennsylvania that said they aren't for sale. As. Far as drilling right now there is no drilling near me I am very close to town. There is however a lot of windmill activity. As far as the value question you asked earlier. The one part that made no sense to me in the process is that the appraisal wasn't done until 3 days before I closed. Travis told me from the beginning he could lend 90% of appraised value. I could have in the grand scheme of things not put anything down other than closing costs. I learned a lot in the process doing it and have learned a lot since purchasing. I can tell you that I spent many hours reading and educating myself. The point I was trying to make earlier I could see how it was misinterpreted. As far as being a seller, I think there is a much lesser need for an agent as far as listing it for sale. I think this is the longest I've ever wrote only phone so excuse grammatical errors!

X2

The one thing I learned involving purchasing land with minerals, have someone research the title history to find out if the minerals conveyed is accurate.

I bought some land about a year ago, seller said he owned 10% minerals and conveyed all to me. About 2weeks ago, a landman called wanted to lease my land for oil. Asked how much minerals I "thought" I owned. He said he shows I own 50%. When he dropped off the lease agreement, he then says I own 31%.

I currently have a lawyer searching to find out exactly how much minerals I own before signing the lease agreement.

in essence you did have a person working in your corner, only it wasn't an agent it was a loan officer for Cap. Farm. I'm glad it worked out well for you, I personally would not trust a loan officer and a title company to look over my documents I would want a knowledgeable attorney or broker doing it.


Sounds like you got a good deal, was Cap. Farm about to repo the property?

In reality the loan officer at Capital Farm Credit is working in his best interest. You just get to piggyback on their resources. They want things (title exceptions) clean in case they get it back. They are not going to make a loan that will have problems if they foreclose. They don't want issues when/if they own it. These include environmental, lien, or encroachment issues. That's why there is a title commitment issued prior to the policy so these thing can be addressed. Further, they don't want to loan too much on a property that they will be underwater on. So it's in their best interest to not let you get in trouble on value as they may have to sell it in the event they get it back. It really is no substitute for a professional that is working for you, be it a realtor, attorney or whomever.

I have never, ever once seen a loan officer object to any exception on a schedule B. not saying it has never happened, but I've never seen it.

sounds like they just more or less used the previous contract since that's what was loaned on prior, and rolled with that.

Most loan officers don't know what their looking at when they review the title commitment. Goofy easements, environmental liens, mineral reservations, deed restrictions. They depend on the title company to alert them and generally never even go beyond the coverage amount. They also don't read appraisals. They only look at the reconciliation of value to make sure their number is OK. Most don't check comps to see if they are current sales, they don't look at income and expenses in the income approach and seldom check the cap rate to see if it's applicable to the market they are in. Always, ALWAYS hire someone that is at least as smart or smarter than you at what they do. This includes attorneys and realtors. If there are mineral issues, I want an attorney that specializes in oil and gas. I want a realtor that knows the market better than anybody else including me). If I know that I am OK going in, I can feel better about having to get out at some point down the road. Just my opinion.

No he had it owner financed and couldnt come up with the balloon payment and couldnt qualify for a loan.