Accurate smoothbore slugs?

Planning on hunting corps of engineers lakes this fall, probably all the hunting I do will be on corps lakes.

Regs on hunting corps of engineers lakes states maximum shot soze is #2, no buckshot. Slugs can be used for hogs but must be smooth bore shotgun.

Soooooo I have been googling it up and according to the googles the federal truball is as good as smoothbore gets with a 12 gauge slug.

Any tips or ideas?

Brenneke Classic foster style slugs are great in smooth bores. As a general rule open chokes are recommended for all slugs but aren�t absolutely necessary. Extra full and full chokes are not recommended. Like most other firearms, shotguns often favor one particular load over another, so experimenting with a few brands may be necessary.
Rifle sights or a scope are recommended for consistent accuracy out to 75-100 yds.
The 2 3/4� 11/8 oz. magnums have plenty of energy.

I would get 5 or 6 different slugs, preferably full power (1500-1600 fps), sandbag the gun at 50 yards and see which one shoots the tightest groups.

IME the Brenneke offers the best combination of accuracy and penetration (harder alloy than TruBall), something to consider when hunting hogs. There are several different varieties of Brenneke Slugs, I would start my search for accuracy with those.

Also experiment with different chokes, sometimes going from a cylinder/improved cylinder to a modified will tighten groups. Read the box the slugs come in to see if that slug is safe for tighter chokes...some are, some aren't.

I would also get a wearable recoil pad like a PAST or something similar. Shooting slugs off the bench is much more enjoyable with one.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

SapperTitan does alot of shotgun hog hunting, he'll be back from timeout on 7/5, shoot him a PM.

Leon offers good advice also, I'd get a couple different brands and pattern them.

Ive shot Remington and Winchester rifled slugs in a smooth bore with modified choke and gotten plenty good enough accuracy to hunt at moderate ranges.

I�ve had really good luck with Fiocchi 7/8 oz low recoil.

For the time being, my slug gun will be a single shot Baikal with a fixed modified choke. It is just a beater but I "tuned " it to hit right where I point it. Meaning, I held the barrel in both hands like a samurai sword, and carefully whacked a soggy log until the pattern centered where I aimed.

We have a couple other shotguns but the baikal is my favorite. I have probably killed more animals with it than any other gun we have.

Best part about a single shot is you can hold a couple different shells between the fingers. So for a mixed bag hunt, which is normally how I hunt small game- anything in season Within range

I hope to kill my first hog this year with it, and a slug.

Thanks for the feedback

I grew up in southwestern Minnesota using slugs for deer. We usually used Federal or Remington slugs. My Dad would give us kids 1 shot before he raised his gun at the deer. He would hit the deer that was in a full out sprint (usually through a corn field) right in the neck every time. The average distance was anywhere between 50-100 yards when he shot, sometimes more. The kicker, he only used a smoothbore barrel. Don�t get so caught up in pin point accuracy, practicing with any gun will always make you better with that gun (practice makes perfect). Oh, and it took me three years to get my first deer. All out sprinting deer are hard to hit! Hahahahaha! Have fun, good luck, and stay safe!

So far the only ones I have found on the store shelf are standard federal foster slugs. Picked up a box of 15 for something like 11 or 12 bucks. I guess I'll just post up a paper plate and figure out how far I can hit it from, and call that good for now.

I really wanted to find some truball, everything I have heard sounds almost too good to be true

I had a stockpile of those brenneke ko's at one time, in 20 gauge. Like 200 rounds i ordered from cheaper than dirt on a special (still got ripped on shipping. Charged hazmat!). But the price was like $2.50 per box of 5 at the time, hard to beat that. Sold the gun, eventually sold the rest of the ammo too. They seem to shoot good, thanks for the tip on the penetration.

Realistically, if it's not a common load Kept in stock locally,i guess it's a bust for me. With all the great places nearby that are shotgun only, I'll eventually break down and order some.

The fiocchi aero slug looks like a good economical load, i might order up a ammo can of those. Worst case scenario, they will suck in my gun and we will have to invest in some 5 gallon waterjugs for a fun range

LeonCarr has done lots of testing with shotguns. He knows what he's talking about. It boils down to each shotgun may pattern differently. Experiment to find which slugs your gun shoots well.

Thank You phathawg!

The Fiocchi Aero Slug is a good product.

They are constructed like the Brenneke KOs except they have a wadcutter profile instead of the semiwadcutter profile of the Brenneke.

They are available as a one ounce slug at 1560 fps, 7/8 ounce slug at 1300 fps, or a one ounce slug at 1150 fps. Hard hitting with above average accuracy IME.

If there is a Cabela's close to you they usually have them in stock. Try em!

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

I'll try to stop by cabela's when I get layed over near one. Thanks

Interesting to see others in our State using slugs to achieve their hunting needs. I became interested in slugs a decade or so ago because a local and a not so local public hunt required them. The smooth-bore requirement of the ACoE does add a bit of a "lack" of a twist to the shooting. My interest in the ammo is handloading to fill the requirement, but I have shot a bunch of factory ammo.

I've owned several slug-guns and for rifled slugs have settled on the Marlin 512, outside the interest of this topic. I have two smooth barrels for my 50+year-old New Haven 600 a discount store (purchased at Gibson's) version of the Mossberg 500. With any smooth-bore you shoot, quality sights are essential, a front bead will not deliver projectile shooting accuracy. I found smooth-bore barrels very cheap for the Mossberg 500 series, everyone what rifled barrels, mine was $50 shipped via eBay. The Mossberg barrels have an excellent adjustable rear sight on their smooth-bore barrels.



As I noted, I've shot a bunch of brands of ammo, store-bought and ordered in, and hands down what I've found that shoots the best is LightField's Hybred Hunting series. It is a single hole shooter from my smooth-bore New Haven. It is the standard by which I judge my cast, handloaded slugs.



They are not cheap, but once settled in, you probably won't shoot a lot of them. I buy them through Bud's as they have fixed shipping on ammo ($10) and slugs run up the shipping charges fast.

I looked up the ACoE shot requirements, and I don't see the "(buck)shot larger than #2" an issue. I started hunting feral hogs at night in 1978. I was around some Hill Country oldtimers, we hunted long, baited cross-fences on full moon nights, and they laughed at my buckshot. They said if I wanted to increase my success at the shot, to shoot BBs. I did not doubt the guys and bought a case of a thousand rounds of it. A BB (.18") is larger than #2 (.15"), but I don't think .03" is going to matter. I think you will kill the heck out of them but choke and sights are important. I've stalked and killed a lot of hogs with Express loads of #6 shot. This all started long before deer feeders where common, but I still use BBs on hogs under lighted feeders. I've seen friends take a feeder leg out with buckshot, but I've never lost a leg to BBs. I've never played around with that 1K of ammo other than to pattern a barrel, probably less than ten shots. I've got less than a dozen left. Below is a typical single shot kill under a feeder. My 26" full choke barrel will keep every BB between the legs of a feeder at 35-yards.



For your bench shooting, wear a life jacket. I bought this at Academy on sale for less than $15, and it makes a difference with the slugs.



Be careful with the recoil. I was shooting a lot of slugs late last year and one eye started to bother me, I was seeing a lot of floaters. I went to the eye doctor and was told that my retina had a lot of small stress tears. She asked me if I boxed or was involved in physical contact activity where blows were delivered. I said no, but remembered that Mr. Lee of Lee Precision had to stop shooting heavy recoil firearms for this reason. I didn't mention the shooting, but I could tell she didn't believe me. She said whatever I was doing to lighten up and they would repair themselves. I limit my slug shooting to 15 shots a session now, and the problem hasn't returned.

Great post! Thanks

I found the shot restriction in what you might consider the "fine print" of the Fort Worth regional rules for this past season. If I recall correctly, they also do not allow cut shells and wax slugs. #2 birdshot, not #2 buckshot. I thought about BB's too, thanks for that great information. I figured they would be the best all purpose load for corps lands.

I'll see if I can find what I thought I saw and send it to you.

I downloaded the Ft Worth Region (which seems to cover Texas) Hunting Regulations and here is the text concerning shotguns under Means and Methods



In the huge document, there are only two references to smooth-bore shotguns. Both are concerning Lavon Lake in Collin County (which you might be planning to hunt). The same reference is listed under "Feral Hogs" and "Authorized Weapons".



That is out of all these properties.



If I could, I would choose a rifled slug barrel over a smooth-bore any day of the week for daylight hunting, but I do prefer the shot for nighttime hunting. Here are shot sizes.

You are the man!

I do plan on Lavon, but my main target is Bardwell because it is close to my job and I plan on moving to that area. If I can shoot a rifled slug gun on Bardwell i will make it my main effort.

A life jacket for recoil control while shooting slugs off the bench...that is absolutely brilliant

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

I've corresponded with the guys at Lightfield and talked with the Randy Fritz of Tarhunt several times, both sources have added a lot of insight into my slug shooting. First and foremost, I would recommend the Tarhunt videos for benchrest techniques for both bolt and pump guns. What is happening with a slug gun is that dense mass heading down the barrel is going to try and rotate the firearm in your grip. No way it isn't going to do this, Newton's third law stuff. The video's address this as it affects accuracy; it is especially noticeable in a pump action as it does not have a solid forearm like a bolt gun. The large projectile is also influenced by spindrift as it travels downrange.

After sending so many slugs downrange the last several years, my number one rule is only to shoot a shell length that matches your maximum chamber length. Most slug guns are roll stamped 2�" or 3"; shoot the 3". If you don't, you are creating a �" of freebore in the chamber with the shorter hull, a gap where the slug is not supported within the chamber by the thickness of the hull. That silly little �" can wreak all kinds of havoc on a slug and its delivery package (sabot or wad(s)) as it passes that gap before entering the chamber's throat.

The industry barrel length for velocity testing or calculations is 26". You can expect to lose 17 to 22 FPS with every inch shorter your barrel is. The loss will make a trajectory difference downrange; not so much with the killing authority.

Do you guys do any reloading?

Not to get away from the gist of the thread, but is the addition of a scope worth additional accuracy? Tapped w/base, saddle mount, or just plain iron sights? Most shots would be 50/75 yds with some out to 100+ a bit.

I would say it depends somewhat on the shooter. I like a scope because it helps in low light. My Marlin 512 has the Weaver side mount (over the bore), they were drilled and tapped for the mount at the factory. My 500 rifled barrel has a scope on the cantilever mount. I also learn that using the specified torque on the base/mount and rings are extremely important with a shotgun. For some odd reason, while out on my range, I decided to tighten the base screws on the 512 a bit. That cost me as the next shot sheared the screws off. Went back to the Weaver specified torque and haven't had an issue over several hundred shots.

For the night time stuff slinging BBs at hogs in food plots, on baited senderos, and under feeders; I replaced the threaded post sight on my 500 barrels with the XS Sights SG20033 sight. The kit contains a larger threaded bead post which the sight "snaps" over, and adhesive; it is epoxied in place (permanently).



The sight is excellent, the view on the right is while I was standing out in the pasture.



I mentioned my 26" full choke barrel would send a load of BBs between the feeder legs at 35 yards, but I a favor an 18�" improved cylinder barrel which does the same at 25-yards. Light, snagging less brush and has a sling swivel.

In all the years between buying the 1K crate of Remington BBs and now, I missed how popular they have become for self-defense loads. That has driven the cost up significantly. Anytime they start selling your favorite load in packs of five, you know it isn't a good thing. I found the wads that were used in the loads and bought a sack of BBs and will reload the empty hulls myself.

Ranch Dog,

I reload and I am set up to cast. What is your favorite home cast shotgun slug?

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

I've spent a lot of time with the Lee slugs and the Lyman Shuttlecock as cut by NOE, most of that time frustrated with the endeavor. Last year, I wandered across the Sabot Technologies Slug-R-US website by accident and bought a small bag of their slug/sabots. After shooting them, I went back and bought the Hammerhead mold and 500 sabots.



For reloading, I have a Lee Loader for 3" shells, Roll Crimpers from BPI and STI (Sabot Tech), a MEC 600 Slugger Press, and the Lee Load-All II. Despite STI saying that a roll crimp, with their crimper, works best, the best accuracy I've had is with 3" hulls using a six-star folded crimp delivered by the Load-All II. At 100 yards, five-shot groups have averaged 3.6 MOA (3.8"), not much material left in the group when you are cutting .75" holes! In fact, at times the groups are impossible to measure accurately.

I've used a large range of powders; Blue Dot, Clays, HS6, International, Long Shot, Universal, and Unique, I feel I'm leaving some out. I've settled on 39.8-grains of Blue Dot with the Hammerhead (the image says 40-grains, but it is 39.8). Here are some loaded hulls from this week.



I did sell the NOE clone of the Lyman but haven't given up on the Lee. Despite sending hundreds downrange, I'm bound and determined to figure out something that will deliver the performance I'm seeing with the Hammerhead. It needs to be done with every shot and I cannot say that happens with the Lee.

Here is my Marlin 512, a sweet "rifle"! The scope is the Weaver Classic V 1-3x20 (#849400). I favor it over the pump gun.

RG11B, I been looking for a smoothbore bolt gun since I became interested in the slug work, and finally found one. It is a like new Western Field 170, which is the Mossberg 395S. At $175, I could not pass it up.



This will allow me to compare smooth and rifled bolt guns and the same as I am doing with the pump guns.

I have several slug guns and have used them some. I had to stop using the 12 gauge because I had 3 discs replaced in my neck a while back and the recoil would make my neck hurt for days (just three shots) so now my slug guns are 20 gauge. I have to say that yes rifled barrels will give you some extra range but typically are noticeably heavier. So my main slug gun presently is a Remington 870 pump and I have both a rifled barrel and a smooth bore with iron sights on it. Using an improved cylinder choke and Winchester 3/4 oz foster style slugs this gun will easily put three under 4 inches at 75 yards. Using the Brenneke slugs it will do slightly better. Where I have found hogs on public land has not been in an open enough area where a shot past 50 yards is possible. I also like the option to shoot shot for incidentals like snake control. As far as effectiveness I can't complain though several times the slugs did not go through. Still the entry holes being big enough to leak blood and the fact the hogs that took off did not go far all is good. Now in my testing of the rifled barrel the Brenneke slugs the KO version shot amazingly well and recoil is not bad at all. This slug is my favorite for either rifled or smooth bore barrels. I have generally used this barrel for deer hunting and the Brennekes have dropped deer several times and the few that ran a little ways leaked pretty good even if the slug did not exit. My testing with the Federal Sabot slug was a waste of money, the old Buckhammer was a good shooting slug but it's recoil rivals that of the 12 gauge loaded with foster slugs.

Great info rickt300!

I just did some shooting with my New Have 600 (Mossberg 500) using its smoothbore rifle sight barrel. I'm taking a different approach to the Lee slug now that I have the Hammerhead worked out, I cannot keep my mind from wandering back to the Lee Slug. The thinking centers on a couple of points; Hammerhead vs. the Lee "package"):

The Hammerhead pressure wad is a tight hull and bore fit. The pressure wads are easy to find at the target berm, and the one thing that you notice is full groove contact on both the sabot body and pressure seal. I have tried eleven different, recommend pressure wads, but only two have a tight fit of the pressure seal; the BPI 078 Lightning and PT1205.

The Hammerhead experience has lead me to believe that most column pressure wads are not up to the task. They might be suitable for moving shot but not the mass of the slug. The pressure columns on the recovered Hammerheads look like they could be reused. The pressure columns are typically destroyed on the different wads I've shot.

Where this is heading is that I'm not going to use a pressure wad with the Lee slugs. I need the pressure wad's cup, but I'm leaving the tail feathers behind.



The 20 Gauge cork and felt wads that I ordered from BPI arrived earlier this week and I immediately tried the fit and think I will go with the felt (white). I like the feel when seating the slug. Eventually, I will compare both cork and felt.



I bought a box of slugs when I was a kid, for my Sears & Roebuck 20 Gauge single shot, and immediately cut one open with a razor blade. I remember that thick waxed cards were below the slug. The Lee Loader instructions state and Lee's original Reloading Handbook illustrates the waxed cards in use. Right now, all I have are cards that are 10mm thick, so two are needed to complete the stack.



I have BPI's Flex Foam Wad, a .7" column of memory foam on order but they have yet to arrive. I did load up a couple of hulls with the components I have and shot them to see how they do. The initial shooting with the components I loaded above, had outstanding results at 50 yards! What I noticed immediately was that the fiber wad loads are quieter and the felt recoil less apparent.



I settled on either the 078 Lightning or PT1205 cup as they are both are 7/8 ounce cups which means that they are shallower than the others I have on hand and require less filler behind the slugs to bring the slug's ogive up to the leading edge of the petals. Why use a cup at all some might ask? The Lee Slug is under bore diameter and depends on the wad cup to act as a sabot for bore contact.

That is where this started with me, hunting whitetails and nilgai on the East Lake NWR. The best hunting is in the ebony thickets were the visibility is at best 50 yards.

I really like the old Brenneke slugs that had the fiber wads connected to the slug, shot great and left the barrel very clean but plastic has replaced the wads. I have never tried to reload slugs as even the cheap rifled slugs seem to do well enough.

I have read through this a couple of times and every time seems like i learn or catch something more.

Ranch Dog, have you gotten around to comparing the smooth and rifled bolt guns?

rickt the comment on 50 yards range is on point. What am I thinking with this question about smoothbore accuracy? The best looking places I have found are very thick.

I am especially happy to hear that the #2 loads and even #4 express loads could work for me. I have a mossberg 835 that throws a very tight pattern, it is unreal to me. I love Remington's express #4's for shooting fox squirrels high in the pines when i was in NC. A little more pricey than I am used to for squirrel shells but for an all purpose load I can use at Bardwell, it's worth every penny.

I might try some of those new express nitro steel #2 shells. Surely 1 1/8 oz of #2 steel at 1700 fps will kill anything inside 25 yards right? There are a lot of ducks where I have found pigs and if I could kill both without changing shells that would be a bonus.

Edit- thats remington hypersonic steel

Not enough to count as fact. I did shoot the Lee cast Slug above in both the New Haven 500 smoothbore barrel and the Marlin 512 rifled. The smoothbore was great to outstanding, the rifled was awful. I haven't shot them in the Western Field 170 bolt gun yet, but I suspect that they will be good.

I would probably say that if my maximum range for the hunt would be 50-yards, I'd probably go with a smoothbore barrel. There are a lot of them on the auction sites as everyone wants rifled barrels for the added distance. The rifled barrels are going to need saboted slugs to perform at a distance, so this becomes a bit of a hassle for the home caster reloader.

My next step with the rifled barrels, both bolt, and pump, is to get back to my Accurate 73-470S mold over a column of waxed cards.





The Accurate mold is a straightforward design to cast. I had tried to hand lube the grease groove on the first go but will powder coat the bullets on the next round. Also, the first casting was with pure lead, which made them a bit heavy; I will go with a Lyman #2 alloy clone, which will drop the weight to approximately 465-grains. In the shooting above, I was using a load of Hodgdon International, a very volatile powder, the charge from a load-sheet for one ounce of shot (438-grains). I have no doubt, the extra weight of pure lead ( 55-grains), was driving the pressure near or over the maximum. Extraction was tough.

Once I get a couple of slug designs that work for either style barrels, the simpler the components, the better; such as using waxed cards vs. pressure wads loaded on a simple press like the Lee Load-All II, I'm going to pressure test the with various common powders and pass this on to others. Yeah, I have pressure trace equipment but don't like using it until I have everything to my satisfaction. The strain gauges are an expense and are of limited life. I will use both bolt guns for pressure work.

As a note, I found new five-round magazines for the WF170 (Mossberg 395) at gunparts.com. That's gives the slug gun six-shots! I will get a picture of the setup today.

Here is the Western Field 170 I just purchased. It came with the standard 2-round magazine which sticks about 1" below the stock, but I found the new 5-round magazines at Numrich and could not pass on them. Six-slug rounds, ready to go, is impressive I think.

That is a sweet gun right there.

Thanks! Durn thing looks like a Remington 788 on steroids

As for smoothbore slug gun accuracy I think you will find a cheap foster slug load that shoots plenty good enough for shots to 75 yards pretty easy. Have had good luck generally with Remington, Winchester and Federal though I like the Winchester versions the best in my 20 gauges. At 50 yards with a Foster style slug my shotgun likes I had no trouble getting 2 inch groups. My first shotgun was a Mossberg 395, it had a u notch fixed rear sight and a bead front choked full. The narrow plastic buttplate made recoil with heavy loads tougher than it had to be but though the sights were off with some Kentucky windage I had no problem hitting a pop can at 50 yards with it. I absolutely had real problems hitting flying birds with it but rabbits were easy and I learned to use the edge of the pattern for head shots on squirrels and rabbits.

I have some Dduplecks Dupo 28s I want to try out of my Rem 1100. I have a Rem 870 slug gun with rifled barrel and scope that shoots Federal and Hornady sabot slugs lights out but hates the Dduplecks.

Ranch Dog it is all your fault.

I just ordered SPWs and the Hammerhead Mold today. Thank you for helping me spend money lol.

rickt300 the Hammerhead/SPW Slug is VERY similar to the Remington Buckhammers and the Hastings/Rottweil Laser Slugs that get rave reviews for accuracy.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

Glad to help your spending Leon! I need to cast some more of the Hammerheads, but I'm not feeling it with the 100�. I came back in from ranch chores and said to myself: "suck it up cupcake"... I fell asleep as I ate a sandwich.

I did load some Lee one-ounce "sabots" with a Lee Load-All Junior. These will be shot in Western Field. The press is a neat, hard to find tool, that was intended to replace the Lee shotgun Loaders. I'm using a BPI 078 Lightning wad cup as a sabot, I cut the cup off the pressure wad with a razor blade and use waxed cards behind the cup.

rickt... there is a 395 on GunBroker that has had the choke cut off a Williams rear sight installed.

What you gritching about Leon? You needed to spend that $$$ anyway. Just make sure to save some for seed or I'll have dirt plots!

Gritching?

Don't disc up those plots and there will still be 4 feet of Millett in them come opening day

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

Griping & bitching

I looked at it, boy somebody put some kind of stain/paint on it with a paint brush. They want too much I think, I gave $28.95 for my 20 gauge at a Spartans department store back in 1971.

Yeah, the poor thing is a bit ugly. Probably will have a tough time getting asked to dance again.

Here is where I read no shot larger than #2 in the ACoE regs for the Fort Worth district.

I know this is an old thread, but I thought I should bring this up. I recently purchased SlugsRus and the Hammerhead slug. I’m working on testing new polymers for the sabots as we speak. Once everything is ironed out, I’ll roll out the website. If anyone has any questions about slugs or buckshot in general, I’ll be happy to answer any questions.

Grew up on buckshot when we still ran dogs,now hunt occasionally in the national park in segno Tex and have discovered Dixie TriBall they are in Florida if still in business,it’s loaded with 3 .60 caliber balls and I shoot them in a rem 870 with a 24 inch police special barrel with a simple red dot and will group 1 3/4 to 2 inch groups at 50 yards,killed several deer and hogs with this load,gets meat on both ends every time

Unfortunately, Mr. James Gates, the brains behind Dixie, past away. I spoke with him about his tri-ball and two ball loads. I’ve been successful in matching the performance of the two ball load at 50 yards. Using his exact recipe for the tri ball load, I haven’t been successful. Instead of getting a 5-6” triangle pattern at 50 yards, I’m getting a horizontal pattern 7-8” long at 50 yards. My recovered wads are melted and mangled. I suspect it’s from shooting them in my 835 that’s back bored and getting severe gas blow by.

Second the Fiocchi Low recoil..
Shoots just like a rifle to 50 yards and won't kill the shooter!