Group Size vs Optic

I see a lot of people talking about a weapon being .5, 1 MOA, etc. I rarely see somebody post the magnification they are shooting with. IYO, don't you shoot a better group with higher magnification or at least a thinner reticle?

It is always said it is harder to hold steady (or it appears to be) on higher magnification. I agree with that, but with that said you cannot shoot what you cannot see.

My old Leupold VxII 3x9 has been a great scope for me on a hunting rifle, but even on 9 power shooting at 100 yards the crosshairs cover the bullseye making it more difficult to take a precise aim. You can do other things to combat it, but I find it easier to do with slightly more magnification.

I'd say it depends. I've shot with some FFP scopes that had very thick reticles and I struggled to see enough of the aiming point to shoot a group. Surprisingly, some of these rifles turned in very tight groups. It might have been that I was concentrating more to shoot them better.

For the best for shooting, I like the SFP scopes, and prefer my Nightforce 5.5-22 scopes for the really fine reticles.

The wobble is still there, whether it's on 10x or 40x. On higher power magnification, you just see the wobble more.

The problem with higher power scopes becomes mirage. On a sunny day, you crank up a scope to 20x or more, and the aiming point starts to dance in the mirage. To combat this, you dial down in magnification. I often have to dial down to 12x or 15x to reduce the mirage.

For load workups I use highest magnification.

I have all the MOAR-T reticles, on my ATACR's / NSX except for one rifle, in which the lines measures .0625 MOA thick and the MOAR has .100 MOA thick. I have the .100 thick reticle on my 6.5 x 284 and it covers the tiny small white dots on smaller diamonds the Redfield targets and the MOAR-T does not due to the thinner lines. You can see smaller targets at longer ranges with thinner lines than the thicker ones. I use the highest magnifications and if need be I would reduce magnification to reduce mirage.

The vast majority of my shooting is done with a 2.5-8 power VX3's. I have one 3-9 power scope, but it's on a 30-06 I rarely shoot. I get groups from .1 to .7 moa (least accurate rifle I have that I shoot regularly). A higher magnification can't buy you skill. All it's going to do is magnify your shortcomings. Some shooters will start chasing the target on a close up shot because they see how the reticle moves more than they expected. This means they start focusing on the target instead of the reticle too.

~.1" to .7" groups, huh. On low power scopes. Seriously. If so, come to this Match and I'll buy your entry fee to show me.

I have a Leupold 6.5x20x40mm that I keep "loose" just for load development. I had on an AR last time. Looks funny but makes determining the accuracy level of a rifle & load easier to judge. Once I'm "dialed-in", the normal sites go on the rifle.

Sure that isn't 1.1 to 1.7? Least accurate rifle?

I saw that a couple months ago and really wanted to, but I have to work that weekend. I always see the same members being called out because of their shooting skills and wanted to see how I would do against them in something that's not a bench only environment.

It wasn't easy to get those rifles to shoot that good. Probably close to 100 different combinations of powder and bullets to find which ones work the best. Now, I have boxes of bullets and jars of powder I don't use. Price you pay for accuracy though. Having good barrels and triggers helped too.

I don't consider an 2.5-8 scope low power. I think of something like a 1-4. We'll just have to chalk it up to opinion.

Out of the ones I use regularly for target practice, they are that accurate with my handloads. I have an M4 clone (irons and thin barrel), and old Czech Mauser I don't expect much out of though. The best ones are my AR's with LaRue and Rainier barrels. The least is my Marlin 308ME. My 6.8 with a White Oak Armament barrel is the one I got .1 moa with. The load I used isn't as fast as others though.

If I were you I would not worry about missing work . If you went to a National Bench Rest match you would clean house against some of the best shooters in the country . Also you could make about $10,000 in side bets with those guys when you told them you were going to beat them with your AR , a 2.5x scope , hunting grade bullets , with no high performance rest [ bi-pod or tool box maybe ? ] , and no wind flags . Let me know when as I would like to be there to get in on some of the bets .

Uh, when did I say any of that? You sure you meant to respond to me? A guy wanted clarification, and I gave it to him. It’s really not hard to shoot accurate if you have good equipment and master the fundamentals.

I dial my SWFA 5-20 HD up to 20x for 100-yard shooting. The image quality is excellent at all magnifications, so there is no need to dial down. Generally for group size, more magnification is better for me. Nice to be able to dial down for other reasons, but there isn't much need to for 100-yard group shooting.

If I'm target shooting and/or working on loads, I generally hang out at the max for my scope. For me that means anywhere from 12x to 16x, depending on the scope. It makes it easier for me to concentrate on a fine aiming point. If I'm hunting it depends on the situation, but it's not unusual for me to be at the upper end of the scale there too.

Style of target helps a lot with less magnification. I have posted some pics of nice tight sub 0.5 MOA 100 yard groups that are routinely shot with scopes set at 10-12x. Some of the loads are consistent in the 0.3's. They are shot on targets that match up well with the reticle. My personal favorite is a small diamond shape, but a cross that matches the reticle will work. If the reticle is centered on all 4 corners, you are centered on the bull. The resolution of excellent glass gives you a substantial boost in that respect. Things get much more difficult as distance is extended. Really good glass and matching up target and reticle will help, but when you want to be very precise at long range there is no substitute for magnification.

Edited to add-I am about to shoot now so I will shoot and post a 100 yard group at 10 power which is the max for this scope

That’s an amazing group. Savages are my favorite bolt actions. My brother has a Savage 6.5-284 that is very accurate too. Flat shooting as well.

Looks like the bolt is on the wrong side?....LOL

J/K Nice group!

Yeah. I was blessed a southpaw.

Come on, man! Where would you like me to start with this one? I'm sorry, but seriously. Come spend some time at the range with me and this exact set up, and I'll show you it "ain't" no .1 moa rifle and set up. That's horse manure. A post like that is 100% troll material, or simply a joke. Either way, it's horse manure.

You're not the only one that knows how to reload. 8208 XBR is a great powder. WOA makes amazing barrels too.

LOL!

I'm here to learn, and pass on a little knowledge I've gleaned over the years. I have no idea why you feel like being a jerk about my success. I would ask how someone got there instead of making snide comments. Yes, I am a gifted shooter, but I know enough to know someone is always better/knows more.

You're not the end all be all when it comes to load development. I understand you might be defensive since you own a loading business, but don't think you have to treat folks bad in order to be respected.

From wiki..
Benchrest shooters attempt to achieve the ultimate in rifle precision; records for single 910 metres (1,000 yd), 10 shot groups are as small as 76 millimetres (3 in), the 550 metres (600 yd) record for a single 5-shot group is 17.8 millimetres (0.699 in) (there are no 10-shot competitions at 600 yards), while 180 metres (200 yd) 10 shot groups are around 5.1 millimetres (0.2 in), and 91 metres (100 yd) 10 shot groups are around 2.5 millimetres (0.1 in). Five shot groups are significantly smaller.[4][5][6][7][8][9][10]


I think he is saying .1 groups at a 100 is benchrest level of shooting which is exceedingly difficult. Most br shooters have highly specialized set ups and the implication is that you are not set up for br

Are you saying you got .1 group once or that it shoots .1 frequently

I'm using a match grade barrel, match trigger, good scope, and decades worth of experience. It's done it at least twice that I can recall. I think probably no more than 6 times though. I don't really sit around and group once I find a good load.

Just the other day someone posted a similar group. My other AR's are down in the .2 range. I've just been blessed with good barrels and good people to learn from.

I have a conventional custom rifle in .280 which ONE TIME have me a 3-shot group measuring 0.18 inch. I'd rather that it never teased me like that. It IS an MOA rifle, though---pretty consistently.

X2 but I use a vortex viper.