Short-barreled 308

Fixin to rebarrel my slow-twist .22-250 and want something short and light. It's going in a Game Scout stock with a T3 action, and a 9" can.

my plan has been to give it a 16.5" Hardy CF barrel, and let the can live on there. For you adventurous types, what powder/bullet combos should I look at to get a decent burn in that barrel length?

Mainly want it to whack pigs, so I don't really want to shoot light bullets.

What are you considering a light bullet? We have been running 125 grain SST in a 20" 308 AR-10 at 3022 fps, and it HAMMERS pigs and yotes.

Out of a 16.5" barrel, you'll want to pick up some speed to gain expansion with a lighter bullet, like a 150 grain or lighter. A 165-168 would work, just running a little slower.

You've done a lot more experimenting than I have, and 308 is a new caliber to me. Basically I just want something that'll transfer a good amount of energy and give me as much of a complete burn as I can get.

I think a 16.5" barrel will give you a petty good burn. I would look powders in the H335, A2230, TAC, H4895 burn rate. You should be able to get 2600-2700 with 150 grain bullets. I've had great experience the last 2 years with 150 Ballistic Tips. I'm sure any 150 bullet would work well but a 150 plastic tipped bullet like a NBT, SST, Accubond will give you more reliable expansion at extended ranges. I wouldn't be concerned about blow ups at close range from a shorter barreled 308 with any 150 hunting bullet.

I've seen u say often as the "bullet guy" here (my personal designation for u) that u should "pick a bullet and then build a rifle."

1. What barrel do u have on this? Twist and brand would be nice to know.
2. What was the rationale here?

Sierra 155 gr TMK, IMR-8208

Works great in my 16" plus can. It has killed hogs from 20 yards to 480 yards, to date.

The AR-10 is actually a good hunting buddy's of mine that I hunt and shoot with. We wanted something to night hunt pigs and yotes with a fast round with some good weight. I helped him out with loads and building the right load for it. I'm not sure of the barrel brand, but he put it together. I'm pretty sure it's a 1:10" twist. The rationale was to have, what we call, "Thermal Explosions"!! We wanted rabbits and yotes to have big splashes of thermal carnage on video when hit with a fast round. And it doesn't disappoint!

The only bullet over 160that looks interesting to me is the 168 ablr. That bc doesn’t look right...

^^^ Yes, the BC's that Nosler lists on their site are not reliable at all. They have changed (lowered) their BC's several times since the LRAB have come out, and I don't even use their listed BC's for being to high. You can EASILY manipulate a G1 BC to make it very appealing, by how they calculate their BC's. But the real world Nosler BC data is much lower.

https://www.nosler.com/accubond-long-range-bullet/

For example, take the Sierra G1 BC numbers. Look at this standard 175 Sierra MatchKing. They list the G1 BC with the velocity test results they got at that velocity. It shows how the faster you push a bullet, the higher the G1 BC is. Now, Sierra's numbers are a little high also, compared to actual acoustic and field testing with the Litz numbers with the same bullet. But Nosler bases their BC data at stupid high speeds, where real world cartridges do not shoot that fast. Nosler lists these crazy high BC numbers, and probably with a little extra on top. This is why I recommend using a G7 BC. A G7 BC is a BC that is less dependent on velocity. Meaning, the faster or slower you push it, the less variation the actual BC has. Yes, there is some variation due to speed, but not near as much as a G1 is. So, use a G7 BC when running your trajectory data. And not all listed BC's are equal.

https://www.sierrabullets.com/store/product.cfm/sn/2275/308-dia-175-gr-HPBT

.505 @ 2800 fps and above
.496 between 2800 and 1800 fps
.485 @ 1800 fps and below

Color me shocked that a company would manipulate numbers to show better performance

Sweet. This is what I'm wanting to do with a .308 barreled action I just bought. Was looking at 155s and a short barrel.

I am going to see how hard I can push the 168s.

I also like ablr because their min velocity for expansion is good

You already have a short barreled .308? Just talked to DSS and about to make mine happen.

Is Dss Morgan?


Mine is coming factory at 16in

Yes sir it is. Hes going to chop, crown, and thread it

If your main target is pigs your not going to be shooting long range most of the time anyway. In fact I have never shot at a feral hog farther than 250 yards out. I don't see BC being a make it or break it issue. A blunt bullet going 2400 fps will work very well. Say a 170 gr. Hornady or 150 gr. Speer bullet made for the 30-30. It is odd the the Ballistic coefficient of a particular bullet has become such a hot topic when virtually 80% of our shooting will be under 150 yards. If you know you are going to be hunting in an area of wide open spaces a short barreled 308 might not be your best choice anyway.

I love 16" 308s and have killed pigs and deer with them
Frankly inside of 300 yards I don't think it really matters which hunting bullet you use, 150-178s have all worked very well for me.

I will most likely be shooting 178ELDX out of my latest 16" bolt 308, they have worked perfect out of my 18" AR10, I don't 2" less barrel is going to change that.

Inside 300 yards I agree. But if you want to stretch it’s legs you need to balance bc and velocity

oh sure..

I really liked the 178 AMAX, they worked for everything including long range and why I also like the ELDX. My 308s run a scope I can dial, so max "flatnes" of a round doesn't really concern me too much and I like one bullet for everything.

If shooting inside of say 300 and you don't plan to dial, get them as fast as you can.
At a distance I will take the heavy bullets due to less wind deflection.

A buddy runs the 130TTSX and loads em hot out of a longer barrel and no can for hunting.

Yup. Exactly what I was thinking. "16" barrel for shooting light bullets" per the OP, does not warrant much consideration of ballistic coefficient. Something like IMR 8208 XBR which the fireman mentioned already.

I guess I am different. I load and scope almost every centerfire rifle for the close shot, as well as the long shot. As mentioned, I considered BC. Of course that rifle has shot hogs mostly inside 250 yards, and many bullets will work for that. The time did come, where I was loaded for the "just in case", hogs at nearly 500 yards. Having shot and practiced with that rifle and load, I knew the correction, and let them fly.

I don't see a problem building ammo to go distance. It also works up close, by the way. And it did not cost any more money to build.

The problem becomes important when you set up your rifles for the furthest shot possible and make them less good at making the normal range shots. Beyond that I would have to visit a tactical course about 40 miles away to be on a range that goes to 600 yards. Most only have access to 100 yard ranges for practice. But I would rather carry a light rifle equipped with a low powered scope/thick reticle like a post or German #4 and easily be able to take anything inside of 300 yards rather than carrying a heavy, long and overscoped rifle set up for shots I won't get anyway. Plus with a rifle set up like I would do it I have something usable at night also. That said for the unusual situation where shooting would surely be over 250 yards I have rifles appropriate for that too. Your better off having two rifles instead of making one do everything.

how many of us bring multiple rifles out for the hunts? or worse, to the blind ? I would NEVER do that

This doesnt make sense.

The beauty of setting up your rifles is you set them up to suit your taste. Short barrel carbine to me says quick handling easy carrying in tight quarters so I shorten up to bring the weapon to bear quick to rip and tear at close range. If I have the possibility of a 500 yard shot where bc is actually a factor, I will also be carrying a full length barrel, so I can shoot close to the cartridges potential. It's the same reason I wouldn't drive a 'vette with a four banger.

16" barrel does just fine at 500 yards, if loaded properly. I've ran mine out to 800, of course.

I'm not disputing that. I also think we both know you don't have to look far to find something that will do it better. Something in that category is what I prefer to have in my hands if I set out with the intention of killing something from a long ways. I do agree it's fun to set up a rifle and then see how far you can expand its normal limits.

Without a doubt. I have a host of other rifles that will definitely do it better. I was just trying to steer people away from "this rifle is only for this job".

More of a "well, hold on a minute...."

16" .308, properly loaded is a pretty good Crescent Wrench.

yep

Amazing! You can't see that a rifle actually set up for normal range shooting wouldn't be better than one set up for 400-600 yard shooting? Fine I would hate to see what you would use for truly short range shooting. Or possibly you have done a lot of shooting on ranges and not much hunting.

What is this infatuation with 500 yards and especially 800 yards? So little shooting game at that range is ethical or practical, I am not knocking the 308 as I have several, I am saying a light rifle with a low powered scope is better for many hunting situations (hunting feral hogs) than a rifle with a 6.5x20 power scope and a 26 inch barrel weighing ten pounds or better.

Ever heard of a variable power scope? I have two by my side today, one is 3.5X on the bottom end, the other is 5X on the bottom end. Both have made kills less than 50 yards, and both have made kills beyond 500. What is a rifle set up for normal range versus 400-600 yard shooting? Nothing, it doesn't exist. One does not have to have a heavy barrel to have a precise, and or long range rifle.

The infatuation is, that is the landscape in my area. One can find themselves in heavy timber, on my own land, where a 30-30 with irons would be just fine, about face, and you're looking at half a mile of flat ground covered in grass. And my farmer neighbors give me free reign on their places for hogs anf coyotes. A quarter mile north of my place is a plowed filed that is 1400 yards north to south, 800 yards east to west. Lately I have knocked down hogs at 600 and 700 yards on that field, several coyotes at 500+. Same rifles have snap shot hogs as close as 30 yards.

I can explain it to you, but I cannot understand it for you.

People always accusing Fireman of just a shooter and not a hunter no matter how much venison is in his freezer.

Exactly right.

Funny, on Monday I was wondering what extra freezer I was going to have to buy, as I was looking at a cow elk, and 3 whitetail. Plans to go get an Axis in June, guess I better get to cooking.

I don't even harvest one ounce of meat off the hogs I shoot. Buzzards gotta eat too.

I will say he is really happy to carry unnecessarily heavy equipment and is focused on the one rifle does all concept. Ever heard of a light 2x7 variable power scope on a light 308? You actually just proved my point that circumstances decide which rifle is better for the job. And the landscape in your area just might be different than that of the rest of us.

Did you pull my rifle out of the safe and weigh it? How would you know it is "unnecessarily heavy"? You don't, you made an assumption.

Exactly my point, that my landscape is different from everyone elses. I am glad you finally caught up to the reasons for the answers I gave to your questions. "Infatuation with 500 yards" statement, for instance.

Other forums people are infatuated with ultralights. They post pictures of the rifle on a digital scale weighing 6.289 lbs all up with their 6X fixed Leupold. It's all about lightweight and less stuff to go wrong. This forum is has a lot of members that shoot long range so it tilts more to heavier rifles with large variables. I'm generally one of the peckerwoods in the middle with 8-9 lb rifle that wears a 3-9x or 2.5-10x.

I've got rifles that weigh in at both ends. Difference is, I shoot all of them quite frequently.

Crazy I shot a 6 lb 10 oz rifle today, 400 to 700 yards.

I have a Kimber Select and it's harder to shoot accurately from field positions which it why I like a heavier rifle. They are just easier to "settle" down.

Until you hold up a heavy one, pure off-hand.

Went out and shot my 16.5” .308. My SPUHR Mount has 6mil can’t. I can’t get a 100 yard zero with it and a 0moa base (oops). Did get a 200 yard Zero. Shooting about 1.7ish mils high at 100. Does that sound about right? Anyone have a dope out to 500 I could use as a starting point of of the 200 yard Zero?

1.8 Mils high at 100, puts you zeroed at 370 yards.

500 yards, .308 will be 3.0+ Mil.

Thanks JG. Ill see what i can do

Went out and shot again. Got my hundred yard zero. I wasn't use the zerostop correctly before

Glad you figured it out!

Went out and shot my 16.5” barreled .308. Loaded up some imr 8208 xbr and 155 Sierra tmks. Got some pretty decent velocities...shooting over 2700 FPS at the muzzle.

Awesome velocity!

How did it group?

I was just shooting different powder charges to see if I got any pressure signs and check velocities on my buddy’s Labradar. All the charges shot pretty close but it was windy and I want really focusing on grouping. Kind of in a hurry. I think I found a sweet spot In the charges though. (44.1) So going to load 10 or so and go back and see how they group.

I was pretty surprised at the velocity it was getting with that short barrrel. Varget only got me in the 2500s (up to book max)