powder recommendation

I remember Michael at the THF Long Range/ Precision Rifle Match back in July said buy enough powder to burn out the barrel due to changes from lot to lot for consistency. My current supply of powder is running low and I need a recommendation for good powder for my 308. The X-terminator I've been using is fine but I can't find it in more than 1lb and I'm assuming there are better powders available. What do you recommend?

Powder Valley has 8-pounders of X-Terminator right now, if that's what you want to stick with.

I'm not a .308 shooter nor am I a long range fan...but I'd be surprised to not see one who is both recommend Varget. I'm thinking JG in particular...let's see if I'm right about that.

Varget.

It helps to know which bullet weight you plan to shoot to help recommend a powder. Varget and R15 are always good for 168-175/178 grain. But the options are wide open and a 308 is not a finicky round on powder choices.

If you go to this burn rate chart, the powders that are suitable for a 308 WIn run from about #82 to about #108. Faster powders for the lighter bullets and slower powders for the heavier bullets.

https://www.hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/burn-rate-color.pdf

I have nothing against X-terminator, just looking for something proven, and by those who know more than me about it.

Chad, I'm pushing 168's now and have no intention of lowering the weight. If anything, I'll go up.

I've had great luck with Varget, also works well in .223.

yep, double dip

Varget for me. If I don't find Varget, I'll get IMR 4064 or H 4895

varget. Plenty to be found out and around these days

1. Varget
2. 4064
3. R15
4. MR 2000 if you want to go fast. But not very temp stable

Actually, it has tested more temp stable than varget. I have met and talked to the powder engineer that made the 2000MR and 4000MR series of powders. These 2 are what I call a "hidden jewel" of powders. They are not applicable in all situations, but the one's that are work very well.

A powder may exhibit more or less temperature tolerance in different cartridges.

Please explain how.

the pressure and volume and caliber.

I wish I could. I was told this during a conversation with one of the ballistics techs at Western Powders. I filed it under "credible" for future reference.

understood

First I have heard that. Read on several forums that it is sensitive.

Emailed Alliant to get their opinion on 2000MR. Here is their response.
Alliant has three temp stable propellants by their chemistry. These are AR-Comp, Reloder-16 and Reloder-23. The Reloder-26 is a temp constant propellant but by its chemistry, we can't call it temp stable. The Power Pro 2000MR is not temp stable.
Thanks,
Duane V.
Technical Services Rep
Alliant/Blazer/CCI/Speer

I guess I've been hiding under a rock, and who knows for how long. I had not heard of "temp stable" and "temp constant" until now. What in heck are the definitions of these terms?

A change in temperature can affect the trajectory or ‘flight path’ of the bullet in two well-known ways:
So long as altitude, barometric pressure and humidity remain constant, an increase in air temperature will cause a flatter trajectory due to a lower air density (less collisions with ‘air particles’ per unit length of flight path).
The same increase in temperature also causes the nitro cellulose based powder inside the cartridge to burn at a higher rate, producing approximately four times the Point of Impact (POI) shift than just air temperature alone.
Just how much does an increase in temperature affect the powder burning-rate? Some powders are more susceptible to temperature effects than others and will burn faster than others.
– Excerpt from Temperature Effects On Zero on KestrelMeters.com

rl15

Opinions on CFE in .308 ??
I have had great luck with CFE in .223 6.5Grendel and 30-30
I seem to remember it hits that same sweet spot that Varget is in ???

Interesting. They had a document that they released that showed the pressure and speed changes in various temps with a lot of the top powders. 2000MR was one of the top performers in that test for one of the lowest changes due to temp, and it was better than Varget. This was when it first came out.

you may be right.
I would like to see some actual results from testing. I have searched all over but cant find anything other than opinions and a few folks personal experiences. I do believe what Alliant said but have read differing opinions from people I trust when it comes to reloading.

Ken Johnson was the brain behind the 2000MR and 4000MR powder development at St Marks powder a few years ago (he's no longer there). He explained to me how they were coating the spherical powder with a new chemical for increased temp stability. These powders were specifically developed for increased speeds with heavy bullets in 308 and 223 (2000MR) and the 270 Win, 25-06, 30-06 family (4000MR).

I'm running a 308 Win, 185 grain Berger in a 28" barrel at 2742 fps with 2000MR. It was my match load for the 308 only matches I shot in. I never had any issues with varying velocities, like I did with R22 in my 300 WM and such. The powder was designed to push the heavier 308 and 223 bullets to faster speeds than other powders. The 2000MR certainly does this. I've been very pleased with it so far. Ken also used this powder for his 223 and 308 matches he shot in. We shared load data on the different rounds.

2000MR is a ball/spherical powder. And ball powders have typically been temp sensitive, until recently. Some of the newer powders have all kinds of coatings and ingredients for eco friendly and such. I'm not sure about those powders, yet.

You might try CFE 223. It's pretty easy to find, meters great, and you can use it for other popular cartridges.

as much as I like CFE223 for some applications it is not Varget when it comes to velocity changes with temperature fluctuation.

I like Varget except for the fact I prefer not loading twigs. It's something different too.

CCI 200
43.5-45.0 H-Varget
178 gr bullet.

+/-9.8 Mils at 1000 yards.

What took ya so long??

I think he posted that answer in another section

http://texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/6904220/all/The_rifle_training_paid_off._T

He was doing the calculations converting MOA to Mils

I been shooting the rifles.

Open Hunting Discussion explains.

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