Help me

22/250 any inputs about use on deer,recommended ammo

Ahh, crap. This could start a firestorm.

1. I know nothing about the 22-250.
2.
3. What happened to the .270?

Size of deer, shot placement, length of shot. I guess if that’s all you’ve got.
I’d rather use a .270.

You and the rifle get good enough to keep bullets inside an inch.

Then aim for the brain stem.

If the deer is broad side to you, that is straight down from the ear notch, and straight back from the jaw line, center of the neck. Facing you, right under the chin. If you can do that, they will be dead before they hit the ground.

You are apparently somewhat new to our forum(welcome) so you may not be aware that discussions about using a 22250 for deer is controversial. Many will say that unless most everything is perfect that it is very under gunned. Others will say it is just fine. Ive gotten tired of beating my head against a wall so I will try to stay out of it. Others seem to enjoy arguing to no end, so you will probably get a lot of feedback.

What'd I tell ya? It might have been a 22-250 mentioned by a friend of the landowner that we had riding with us when I toured a lease that I was on for just one year. Apparently, the friend, and all of his children and grandchildren down to about age 8, could drill a deer in the ear with one out to 500. DRT.

Welcome ...

My kids hunt with an AR in 5.56. 65 grain Gamekings have dropped 2 mature bucks, 4 boar hogs one was 250 pounds, and an aoudad. I trust that load. But the day they can shoulder a full size rifle we’re switching to my 22-250 with same bullet. It’s wicked at that speed

exactly

I'm no expert here but some logical points.
22-250 is usually a 12 twist barrel and limits bullet weight to around 55~60 grains.
This is probably adequate for most game animals up to around 100 lbs
While not written in stone I would think this would be considered more of a varmint round.
I know someone will say they have shot moose in Canada or Mule deer with a 22-250 and that I suspect is acceptable for some hunters.
I would personally go to a 243 Winchester or 6.5 Creedmoor or 7mm-08 if you intend to shoot whitetail or bigger....But that's just me.....

The 55 grain Sierra Game King has a good reputation with sane bullet placement, as does the 63 grain semi-pointed SGK. That said, if you've already got a .270 ...

I’ve guided many of hunts and have several friends who have harvested WT with this round. If you have the typical 1:12 twist run the 69gr or 77gr bullets. Or the heaviest your gun will shoot the best with. Head shots are best but not always wanted (buck). Neck shots are your friend.
Worst case take high shoulder shots for best chance at DRT. Lung shot are a good option as well.
You will never go wrong with solids either.

My daughter and I took 3 bucks last year using the same 22-250

I then shot a 249 lb boar with same rifle

100-300 yards.

Dead center of shoulder, no runners, all DRT’s

4 for 4

I bought it for her, I decided to keep using it myself

At those ranges, I’m convinced speed does kill

Not gonna argue with anyone over it, but all I'll say is yes I am a fan of the 22-250 for deer and have been since I was 11 yrs old. Shoot a proper bullet, and put that bullet where it needs to go. Game over. My 22-250 is the most accurate rifle I own, and I love hunting with it. I am also a fan of the 243, but there are folks on here that will tell you that caliber is marginal at best LOL. Lots of different opinions out there. If either one of those calibers didn't work for me, I wouldn't be using them. If I was planning on making extended range body shots on deer I would leave the 22-250 in the safe.

Yes, I am also a fan of the 270

Yes, yes it does.

Back around 1998 i was hunting with an 06 or 45-70 and wanted to try the other end of the spectrum on deer. I loaded up some Barnes 45gr hollow points for the 250. Book showed something like 4020 fps with the load. Shot several deer with it and a few hogs. Although none of the deer were dead when they hit the ground, most were within a few seconds. Never had a pass through (never needed it) but when dressing them the internal organs looked like they had been run through a blender from the hydrostatic shock. Shot a few hogs, most were running or in a quick trot so was going for a body shot to slow them down some. All required follow up shots, so have some with the 45-70 though. As much as i like the 22-250 it wouldn't be the first gun i grab when going hog hunting unless there were expectations they would be broad side and still for a head shot then absolutley. If i were to build one up it would be with a fast twist to shoot heavier pills. Having said this, i've taken more than a couple dozen hogs in one night with a 223 and 55gr fmj's but this was with a AR15 platform and plenty ammo to use. To the op's question about use on deer, for a head or neck shot it would be my go to with about any bullet. For a body shot get something that will have a lot of hydrostatic shock and get after it.

I’m not an expert on anything and not looking to argue w anybody

But why do people say neck or head w the 22-250?

I just listed 4 real world, actually happened to me events this past year.

I didn’t read about it, I applied it in real life

We shot 4 animals all dead center shoulder and they all instantly died.

I’m not a lucky person and I don’t think all 4 were lucky or freak accidents

One buck weighed 159 live, 162 live and 249 live on pig not huge animals but standard sized is say

I didn’t weigh one buck

The most common figure thrown around when hunters discuss the kinetic energy required to ethically kill a whitetail is 1,000 ft.-lb. A quick check of several factory loads yielded a range of roughly 150 yards before the kinetic energy of a 22-250 bullet appropriate for deer, drops below that point.

Just as a rough comparison, a 100-grain, .243 load can support that level of energy out to twice that distance.

22-250 will work for deer. It is marginal. I view it a lot like bird hunting with a .410. In the hands of an expert it is deadly. Load up some 60 grain partitions and be smart about the shots you take.

I guess you are saying that a sample size of FOUR is enough.

As usual, Smokey’s thoughts make a lot of sense.

With a 55+ grain bullet that’s well constructed, and placed behind the shoulder for a double lung shot, it’ll work on average sized deer in Texas. I would keep shots under 150 yards. If they should run off and you can’t see where they fall, tracking a blood trail might be challenging due to small bullets holes.

I like they 22-250, and plan to hunt with one I bought last weekend this fall, if it’ll shoot 60 Nosler Partitions reloads into an inch or better group. If it won’t, it’s sole purpose will be for varmints and predators.

Even having a soft spot for the little round, I will say there are calibers way better suited for whitetail than the 22-250

If your gun will handle them the 65gr Sierra GK and 64gr Winchester powerpoint seem to work well. Better yet if it will handle those 62 gr Sirocco, 64gr Nosler Bonded PERFORMANCE, and 60gr partition are all designed for game such as Texas whitetails in mind. And they work.

The old 60gr Nosler solidbase was my favorite 22-250 deer bullet for years. Switched from it to Trophy Bonded 55gr for a while when it came out and it worked well but like some really good bullets those are gone except for a some of us that still hang on to a box or two.

Smokey Bear summed it up nicely

All about shot placement. Bought my brand new wife a 222. She shot a deer and decided to not do it again. Gave it to 8 year old Grandson. He killed 2 deer and a pig. None went far. Then I started stepping him up as he grew.

The triple deuce is waiting for a great grand kid who wants to hunt.

BTW, I’ve lost deer with my 30-06 that I knew were hard hit. We all have.

What’s enough?

Help me, help him

Please respond, I’d like to know.

I’ll exclusively use it next year next year now just because.

I’ve got no reason to lie, hell ammo is hard to get

The less users the better for me

Not sponsored, lol

I’d just like to hear freerange tell me how many I gotta get with it

The 249 boar I was most impressed with. Solid shoulder sucker. Just took a nap at 100

I’ll bet he says 5🤣 🤣🤣🤣

Or he has never used a 22-250 period..

I didn’t come here to argue, but just to say 4-4 medium sized game never moved once trigger pulled

I'll help.

"Why do people say neck or head with the .22-250"

Because, even properly expanded, a .224" is not that large. 1:14 is the most common twist for .22-250, so 55 gr is the longest bullet that twist rate will properly stabilize. 55 gr is not much payload for vitals. It could pencil through. If it hits a rib, it could blow up early, shrapnel shallow, and the deer runs off to die several hundred yards away, or not die at all. Even though it came out of the muzzle very fast, it still does not equate to high foot pounds upon impact. In spite of what many people would have others believe, speed is all that matter, that simply is not true when going to vitals. The .308 Win with a 165 to 178 gr is a good example. It is by no means fast, but it is heavy, expands to a large hole, and delivers foot pounds. Talking all inside 300 yards.

When you go to head or neck shot, that is perfectly placed, even an FMJ will kill a deer right there. So, with any cartridge on the planet, if the hunter/shooter can shoot tight enough, immediate death is likely, and little to no tracking is likely.

As is the case with any cartridge shot into the vitals of a whitetail, tracking is quite possible. With a .223 or .22-250 into the vitals, tracking is highly likely.

I bet you are shooting very well.

Not everyone does that.

I own my own range, I will never claim to shoot as good as you.

I know I can’t.

But at reasonable ranges for medium sized game, it’ll work fine.

I weighed 3 out of 4 of those animals, North Tx to Southern Ok.

Just run of the mill, avg sized

Now, that 300 yard buck. I have ranged the stock tank he was near at 313.

So I do know regardless it was near 300, he was just off the dam

I didn’t have my range finders that particular hunt

He was hung on a doe for 3 hours, I waited and waited thinking he would breed her in my presence.

For those who’ve never witnessed that, you get a motionless buck...

I had never killed an animal at that distance.

I had plenty of time and a good rest.

I’m not a 22-250 guy, I got it for my 13yr old daughter but soon realized it’s bad medicine on med sized game.

I’ve been real pleased with the 55 grain Fusions as well, that’s what I’ve been using the last few years. Sure puts some nasty holes in deer. If I could only find more ammo, that’d be great!

Most people are gonna go to the store or order their ammo on line, go shoot it at 100 yards and call it good. So let's say you do take a little more time than some, do you hold over or dial at longer ranges? This is where you start to see differences in actual bullet impact verses where you thought you were aiming. I know, i know, the 22-250 is flat shooting.

Is the 22-250 bad medicine on medium size game? Here are some facts. Your 22-250 pushing store bought 55gr pills has about 772 lb-ft of energy at 300 yards. The 7mag i built with the loads i run has more than that at 1350 yards. That's 3/4's of a mile. Does that mean the 7mag is bad medicine on medium size game at 3/4's of a mile? I have dope out to a mile on mine but certianly won't be shooting deer at anywhere close to 3/4's of a mile. For reference, i like my 22-250, really like it. Been shooting it for over a couple decades and think i have a pretty good handle on it's limitations. I've never said head or neck only, but i do use that as my best chance at dropping something right there and will draw a line at much less than 300 yards for a broad side shoulder shot ................ until ................. i get one built with a fast twist to shoot better pills.

If only there was an option...

AAAAHhhhhhh Ima holler back shortly. Thanks bud.

With the 22-250 for deer hunting, or pigs, the bullet choice is very important, as others have said. The OP didn’t say what the twist rate on his barrel is, but if it’s a 14 twist, he won’t be able to stabilize a lot of the ‘good’ bullets that weigh 60 gr or more. The 63 gr Sierra SMP will stabilize. The 60 gr Nosler Partition will be marginal, in that it might or might not stabilize (it won’t in mine). Those are the two shortest bullets. The next shortest bullet I’ve tried is the Nosler 64 gr BSB.

As for whether it’s Ok for deer hunting, that’s been talked to death. There are better options, but it will work.

.224", 1:14 twist = 55 gr down to 45 gr as far as optimal bullet weight/length

That is why I suggested the 60 grain partitions. It is a compact bullet. Short from tip to ogive and flat base with a profile very similar to the old Nosler flat base. Pushed fast, they have worked in more than one 14 twist 22-250. Finding some to try is gonna be an Easter egg hunt.

Thanks for the help fireman.

Will a 22-250 work, sure. Ive only killed one critter with one and it worked fine. I have killed several with a 223, 222, and 22 hornet. The 22-250 is a cannon next to those 3. I prefer to use quality bullets either partitions or mono-metal, but have succesfully used all with traditional cup and cure bullets also. Shot placement becomes more important.

I have shoulder shot deer/hogs with a 300 mag and 270 win that ran off like not hit and same placement with a 223 and had them fall like touched by the hand of God and vice versa, not two animals, shots, instances are alike.

For my own purposes I have faith in it but it is not my first pick. Ill reach for my 270 win, 7mm-08 rem, 30-06, or 243 first every time if im deer/hog hunting. When it comes to the 300 or the center fire 22 cals ill start trying to make a decision between what is more too much gun or too little gun.

I know a guy that hunts with a T/C pistol in .22 Hornet, that has probably killed more deer than anyone else I know. He is an old timer and USED TO road hunt from the road with that pistol, pretty much raised all his kids on venison he got with that pistol. His oldest boy was my trainer at my first driving job.

He got caught by the game warden one night, but he let him go because they could not recover the deer he shot!

I know it’s not exactly apples to apples, but if the .22-250 is all you have then use it I’m not judging you. If it is a recoil issue, then use it I’m not judging you. Otherwise, if you have the means, I would move up to a .243 at least.

Ahem, about the 22-250, I'll tell you four things:

1). We have never had to trail a deer taken with a 22-250 and that goes for Shotsie (Hudspawn III) and myself

2). We have always retrieved the animal shot at

3). Neither of us would consider a shoulder shot on a doe and especially not on a buck (just wouldn't)

4). The hunter taking 300 yards shots with it better be as good a shot as Natty Bumpo

Yessr. What a lot of people don't know (and some refuse to accept), is that a properly constructed small bullet traveling at 220 Swift or 22-250 speeds can do tremendous damage to thin skinned game like White Tailed Deer. This experience is coming from decades of shooting live animals with the round, not from book calculations or internet forums debating ft pounds of energy and BLAAAH. I have never lost an animal with a 22-250 (I shouldn't have said that). I know what it can and can not do well if I do my part, it is just another awesome tool to have in the box and yes it kills the hell out of deer in South Texas every year and that includes a LOT of big S Texas black brush bucks.

I can fondly remember the time when Shotsie hadn't been able to hunt for several seasons. When she came out with me again and when a doe popped out in front, she asked me, "We still shoot 'em in the head, don't we daddy?" Lovey that girl.

make this a STICKY

Good stuff right there Sir.

That's where the 22-250 really shines IMO. It is so fast, when you squeeze on that brain or neck there is no delay. There is only a dead deer laying there.

I was taught at a young age to make those shots. The last thing you want to do is shoot a deer behind or in the shoulder in what YOU THOUGHT were vitals and have it run 100-500 yrds into those thick thorns & cactus. Been there too many times with large caliber shooters. I shoot head/neck/high shoulder. It's bang flop or I don't shoot with a rifle, I'll pass the shot if need be. I will take a quartering away shot behind the shoulder though - in the pocket. With a bow, different story of course. I love blood trailing behind a broadhead.

Speaking of head shots, I've always tried to keep them relatively close but my farthest on a deer was a doe two years ago. 22-250/55 gr Fusions. She was bedded down with her head up not moving, I had a solid rest & was confident. At 205 yards that little 55 grain bullet blew half of her head completely off. When I brought her to camp to clean a couple newbie hunters were kinda freaked out and said "DAMN MAN, what'd you shoot her with a 50 cal!?" They had a hard time believing a 22-250 did that, even after I handed them the empty case and showed them the rifle.


To each their own.

The last man I knew personally who took a head shot was sick the animal got away with its lower jaw shot off. Not a pretty way to starve to death if blood loss doesn't kill the animal first.

Learn when to shoot & when not to.

Put some blood on the ground, and some smoke in the air.

Yes, a need to stroke the male ego is one of the primary drivers behind head shots.

I’ve shot a lot of deer with a .22-250. Never lost one, but they were not always simple recoveries, some had long blood trails. Ive also head shot a lot of deer.

I don’t do either anymore. It’s not necessary.

Unless I’m strictly doe/pig hunting I won’t use the .22-250. No need to handicap yourself. It’s a 100-150 yard gun and shots need to be more on the ideal side.

Head shots...I’ve proved to myself I can do it. Done with that and don’t like the mess.

Like the 55 grain v-Max. Had bad experiences with the 55 grain bonded fusion bullets. Not enough expansion in that diameter


I like my .270 for general deer hunting

As is common with your posts, that is nonsense.

Head or brainstorm shots are for not having an animal suffer, not having to track an animal, and not tearing up meat. I don't know how many whitetail does I have killed now. About 80% were hit in the brain stem, inside 250 yards. They did not take a step, and I had zero torn up meat, and field dressing was not messy.

X2 If I’m hunting doe’s their getting their brains removed period. Bucks, well their getting hit wherever the bullet lands

BS. Has absolutely nothing to do with stroking a male ego. I like instant death and ZERO wasted meat. I like neck roasts and shoulder roasts. If I have the opportunity to make a clean head shot on a doe or a spike I will take it every time. You don’t like those kind of shots, don’t take them. It’s that simple.

To the OP.
If I'm culling does I will have my 22-250 with me. If I am hunting a buck from a stand, I will have my 243 or 25-06 with me.

Operate within your own limitations and be open minded enough to not try to impose your limitations on those they don’t apply to Dan.

Nail, meet Head. Yes, a .22 caliber will kill a deer. My son's first two deer were killed with a .223 wssm. But that is after he missed twice due to scope issues on his .357. And his shots were 100 yards and 70 yards. The .223 was what Grandpa had in the safe that didn't kick. But, I have had enough pigs shot with .22 caliber bullets that ran far enough that we had to use buzzards the next day to find them. I stay away from .22 caliber rounds for anything other than varmints. Could I hit a brain stem and knock them down easily at 100 yards with a .22 caliber? Yes. Can I hold the same 1" group at 200, 300, 400 yards? Hell no. Especially not in the field. If I'm shooting 1/2 MOA groups from the bench, I can bet that group will open up to at least 1 MOA in the field. Possibly larger. Can I reliably hit the vitals with my 270, 308 or 6.5 at those distances in the field? Yes.

I usually argue against head/neck shots because not everybody shoots as well as some of the well-practiced folks on the forum. Shoot em in the lungs and you can be a few inches off and still kill the deer. A misplaced head shot can result in a long slow death of a deer. And there will rarely be enough of a blood trail to help with tracking.

Shoot em in the head if you are good enough, but only if you are good enough.

While I haven’t used 22-250 in a while. That’s my experience, a pile of critters with TSX’s

Skinner you have to understand the 22-250 hate. 99% of haters don’t kill that many deer. Infact most probably havent killed as many deer in total that you or most 22-250 users have killed just culling. Most can’t fathom killing 60 does in 3-4 days much less a weekend, year after year. Therefore they don’t understand nerve decommissioning shots. Look how many people condemn high shoulder shots, or neck/shoulder crease.... never ending circle

22-250 threads are like deer management threads most are purely talking hypocritically. The guys with experience of actual hard core management of herds are a lot fewer in practice than thought.

I think I am correct on this but it seems that Head shooting deer is pretty much a Texas thing.
You don’t hear much about it mentioned anywhere else in the country or at least in the circles I have hunted in.
I won’t bore anyone with my stories of dealing with ill placed head shots because it sure won’t change anyone’s opinion but it never really occurs to me to try to do it.
I think a 22-250 with a fast twist barrel will hammer the biggest deer that walks with proper bullets placed in the boiler room.
I will add most we have killed in a 3 hour period is 61 deer and quite a few were with 22-250

Most dont have the density’s or management plans, out west most cant get more then two tags. With that said lot of stuff gets shot with 22 in Alaska and Reservation that are exempt from state wildlife regulations

The most ethical shot is the one that offers the greatest lethal potential AND largest margin for error. People can try to rationalize head shots as saying "it saves meat" but that only hides the self-gratification that comes with taking the "toughest" shot that offers the least margin for error. The true sportsman puts the animal before himself/herself.

If it's true that heads shots are more of a "Texas thing", perhaps it comes from our reputation for being self-boasting.

How do you kill 61 deer in a 3 hour period? Must have a big place and a lot of guys

We have a hard time catching that many with a helicopter.

That’s a deer every 2.8 minutes

I’ve headshot plenty of animals but it was never to save meat.

Losing 1/2 lb of neck meat or a few ribs isn’t enough to cause me to take the risk of shooting ones jaw off

Another characteristic of the most ethical shot is the one that carries the least amount of risk.

Here are couple of clean kills or clean misses.....





I have killed a whole lot of deer under MLD with a .223 and also had hunters use a .22-250 on deer. I am not a head or neck shot guy and rarely if ever take those shots. What I do shoot is a high shoulder or point of the shoulder shot with the .223 about 90% of the time. I also eat deer meat 350 days per year and most days two meals per day so I rarely trim off or have to throw away much meat.
I have seen 1.5-4.5 yr old bucks shot there with the .223 and the .22-250. With those calibers it was all about the preferred shot placement of the shooter.... just like those on here who prefer to shoot neck/head shots for shot placement. You miss on any shot and the results will be the same....miss a head or neck shot and the results may look like those 2 animals in the pics above. You could cleanly miss also, but those two animals were thought to be clean misses also. One of those shots was with a 7 mag and the other one I do not know what the animal was shot with. Misplaced shots are not a result of the caliber but either on the shooter or the animal moved at the instant the trigger was pulled. You can't control that part of a shot. If the animal moves then it does not matter how experienced the shooter is.

There was 10 of us in 3 vehicles and it’s roughly 50k acres.... my truck and two hunters killed 21

I have been on ranches in the Hill Country when they started shooting large numbers of deer off the first year. It was not unusual for one hunter in one sit to kill 10 does/spikes in a two hour period the first year. You were looking at a deer density of a deer to less than 2 acres on this particular ranch. You multiply that times 6 to 8 hunters in blinds at one time and it adds up really quick. I have killed 5 before in one morning sit in a blind and stopped on that number......I stopped due to being by myself and having other things to get done that day on the ranch that morning.

So you're not a good enough shooter, and your Remington Core Lokts cant shoot tight enough, so practiced shooters with very good shooting rifles and ammo should not do it either.

This is something that can never be explained nor justified unless the audience is a true shooter/marksman.
I shot for several years at long range, even had 2 rifles dialed up for 2 separate feeders so that I wouldn’t have to change the scope dial for a potential shot on my long target which was 650 yards. My neighbor to the south of me told me I was crazy, I sat out there and took 5-10 shots perfecting everything before I ever shot at an animal. I took a hog, a Turkey, and a nice fat doe off that feeder sitting at 650 with a 260 Remington. I drove my truck right where they lay and did my thing from there, no dragging, no searching.

Bottom line is in my opinion if you can’t make a head shot on a standing deer at 100 or less you probably need a better rifle and or training.

I’d shoot a deer with a 223, or a 22-250 especially if it were a fast twisted barrel and a heavy bullet. But a 55 gr combined technology bullet in 223 does just fine, inside 200 yards in the open. I’ve shot a pile of hogs that would agree. If a lowly 223 can kill a hog it can certainly kill a deer

Hey look, old Trash Can Dan is talking about "ethical" shots again.

Hey Dan, there are by far WAY MORE DEER that are wounded with shots to "the vitals" with larger calibers that go off and suffer and die never to be recovered.

That is a fact.

I have trailed a lot of wounded & gut shot deer, shot by folks that say the exact same things as you.

"A TRUE SPORTSMAN"......just shut up. You don't know what you're talking about as usual.

What I say to that is that we should not convince poor shooters to try shots they can’t consistently make. I have tracked far too many wounded deer shot by customers (and relatives) that were poor shooters. The bad part is that there are a lot of poor shooters that don’t know or admit they are bad shooters. Everybody shoots 1/4” groups, don’t they?

Yes Sir.

Know the limitations of your gun, and yourself.

This whole head shot thing gets ridiculous on here. You don't just see a deer, and shoot it in the head. The deer (or any animal) needs to be within your comfortable range, and especially with head shots...the head needs to be at the proper angle. Nobody wants to shoot a deer in the jaw, I'm shooting them in the brain not the jaw. There are angles where the chance of making a bad shot are very slim. Those are the shots I take. As always, if I'm not comfortable with a shot, then I won't take it. I like quick clean kills.

A 22-250 that you can clover leaf, is a perfect tool for this IMO. So is a good shooting 223. Confidence is important.

My BIL just turned 50, we've hunted together for 30 years. He only uses the 223 that his Dad gave him. He has killed A LOT of deer/pigs with that gun. He has killed some good bucks with that gun, all took one round to the neck and made nice shoulder mounts. 55 grain SP. In 30 yrs hunting with him he has lost 1 deer with his 223. He knew he screwed up as soon as it happened. Big S Texas buck chasing a doe, he got cocky and took a running shot because he couldn't get him to stop. Hit him low, in the leg. He called me right after the shot. I hunted that ranch for 25 years and knew how everybody was and what was coming. I told him to slide out of there and give it some time, we would come back in slow and quiet to finish him if possible.

Nope, before I even got over there there were 5 men trampling all over everything and making a ton of noise. Ugh. I found where he was bedded down the last time they jumped him and went into the neighbor's ranch.

Anyway, I wanted to find that deer more than he did.......I went back when everyone was asleep, but was a lost cause.

WORD

Yup!

I shot the jaw off a deer once. I had pulled off about 5 or 6 head shots, got cocky. Deer moved right as I squeezed the trigger. she hit the ground then stumbled off. I found her 15 yards in the brush under a mesquite laid up. Put another round in her but it could have gone the other way.

I've missed a few neck shots when the deer moved at the split second i squeezed, grazed a few across the top of the neck and they hit the deck then took off. Looking back it would have made much more sense to put one thru the lungs and had a 3 min tracking job than to miss the deer completely.


I can't tell you how many deer I've shot in the neck, but its been quite a few. Grew up doing it and its the way we were taught. The only two times its really been justified is on two bucks, where the neck was all I could see. The others, shooting a broadside deer in the neck...…does not make the most sense, other than to save a nominal amount of meat ; probably that amount would end up in the trash or scrap for the dogs anyway. Risk vs. reward of taking head/neck shots doesn't add up if you really think about it imo. I quit taking neck shots a long time ago.

Dan's posts proves he is FOS and your post just emphasized you really are not that great of a marksman per the proof above. I have seen skinner kill deer with that .243 and the shot is perfect. Do not quote Dan and try to make a point as he is clueless

You beat me to the point. If there's no true benefit in terms of saving meat (unless you're someone who loves rib meat), what's the reward in taking head shots?

I never claimed to be a great marksman. But I can shoot a rifle pretty good and I've killed alot of animals. But the greatest marksman in the world has no control over an animal moving at the last minute and causing his bullet to hit an area other than intended. That is a variable you cannot control.

I am not annie oklie or ITRDM either but quoting trashcan dan immediately devalues what you say next by 95%. I can shoot a rifle same as most here can decently enough I would hope.

Yes, but what does that have to do with head shooting deer?

Trash can dan thinks it is unethical. You do you, I am not mad at it but dont quote a dumb [censored] next time Sir.

As is common with you. That has already been explained, the explanation does not fit your narrative or you choose to ignore it because you don't like it. Yet you asked again. That is either trolling, or mornonic.

I waded through all this mess of a thread and it went about like i figured LOL, but I will offer my opinion anyway. I don't headshoot deer and am not a fan of 22 caliber anything for deer, but I am not a fan of 243s either. I like 7mm in a short action case and up, though a 6.5 would probably be fine too. If I am taking a rifle, I want to be able to take the shot presented and not have to wait for the "perfect" opportunity. Head down, head up, broad side, quartering to, quartering away, high shoulder, etc. I also like pass throughs and I don't feel comfortable with a 22 caliber making all that happen. This is my opinion based on my experiences. I don't care if someone else uses one or headshoots, that is their choice to make. I am just not a fan of the limitations I place on myself with the small calibers

This is a mess of a thread, with some uncalled-for insults to one fellow. As for where a fellow ought to shoot a deer, be it head, neck, or shoulder, I think that’s a personal choice. I also think that there are few people good enough to do the head shots, or maybe to do it well, regardless of what they say. In my experiences over the years of guiding deer hunters, I didn’t run across many guys I’d call good shots. And if one of them told me he only did head shots, I really wouldn’t have wanted him on my Jeep. Probably an 80% chance he really wasn’t good enough, and that I was going to have to track a wounded deer unsuccessfully.

What is it about head and neck shots that’s apparently so manly? If you want deer meat, just shoot em in the lungs and they die every time, and your margin for error is quite large. But maybe the objective of some is more about making a difficult shot than filling the freezer. Target shooters versus hunters perhaps?

Ain't telling anyone else what to do and absolutely abhor someone telling me I am doing it to stroke my ego. If shooting multiple deer at a time, I head for high shoulder. if shooting a single door with my 22-250, within spitting distance and having access to a good rest, I typically will nail them in the ear or the throat patch if they are looking directly at me. Don't need some rocket surgeon acting all high & mighty on me when he is actually spouting crapola. Never went for that queer guy with the straight eye stuff.

Have guided dozens of hunters (I realize that is not a bunch) and have taken friends with me to hunt, but have never, ever suggested they take head shots. They need to be comfortable with whatever it is they are doing.

I also have shot off the jaw of a deer. Never trailed something so hard in my life. That guy went as far away from a vehicle as he could possibly get. Dispatched him under a huisache tree and still vividly recall every detail and the mistake I made.

Oh man. This thread blew up. Some riflemen are up to a lot more with their rifle than than others. Most require much more margin for error with their shots than a true crack shot. There is a lot of difference between shootin a deer in the head and shooting one In the brain pan, which is about 1 1/4” deep. Some have also watched a lot more deer than others and understand when it is a go or a no go. I can’t judge over the net who is a crack shot or a crack pot, so I’m not gonna get wrapped around the axle over it.

Some days I feel left out that I just target shoot and don't hunt. Other days I just sip on my coffee and read the ridiculous arguments from folks who probably agree on most things in life, and wonder why we can't all just get along...

I knew this thread was going to blow up when this post was made.



This is the type of discussions where divorces happen and friendships are lost! Just ask 603 about a blowback operated shotgun.

I love my blowback operated shotgun. I can shoot ducks in the head with it!

I have no idea if neck/head shooting is a texas thing or not. I know when i started hunting my dad shot them in the neck. I was instructed to shoot for the shoulder as it took out the wheels and was a big target. We went to the range quite a bit with dad then. When I demonstrated to be able to consistently shoot well enough to hit neck/head that is where I started shooting. I currently do not get to shoot enough to feel comfortable shooting at the neck/head and have reverted back to body shots.

It has never been an ego thing for me although I see it is for some people. My FIL regularly makes fun of my wife because she doesnt shoot her deer in the neck/head... well the one time he came to hunt with us he missed a neck shot in the morning and gut shot a doe in the evening... to keep things civil I dont bring it up with him, but when she tells me she feels bad about xyz when her dad gives her a hard time about it, I always have that episode in my back pocket to cheer her up. I can also say that a body shot is not the end of the world, but there is a huge difference in cleaning the blood shot mess of a body shot and a neck or head shot.

Now you are bragging.

More like I’m lying. No stinking way I can head shoot a duck unless it’s luck.

My dad was an old airborn ranger. He had spent some time around dangerous men in dangerous places. He taught me coming up about the quiet men that are confident in their ability don’t need to prove it. “A bad dog don’t need to bark”.

been around bunches and have never witnessed someone stoking their ego with a head or neck shot.

This ^^^. I am the polar opposite of an egomaniac, aggravating to be called as such because someone holds a different "opinion". I'm not bragging about anything, and not telling anyone what to do. You do your thing, I'll do mine.....and I promise not to get triggered and insult you if I don't agree with your shot placement. LOL

Can tell you this, as a guide and as a friend, I have tracked far more animals shot in the body than those shot in the head.

Nothing manly about it at all. I'm all hunter and it's all about filling the freezer. Where I come from it is frowned upon to shoot a deer behind the shoulders with a rifle. They run, and this brush ain't no joke. The goal is to drop them where they stand, whether that be in the head/neck/high shoulder. Whichever opportunity is the best. Base of the neck is my preferred shot. Don't blow up the shoulders and most of the neck is still edible. There's a few people on here who always have to make things into something that it's not.

Yep right or wrong ive seen more critters lost to body shots that were not recovered than neck or head shots that were missed/not recovered.

Same here, by far!!! Tracked and lost.

"Ethical" is quick death and a recovered animal.

Alright, I'm gonna start a thread on THE TEXAS HEARTSHOT. What do yall think?

Been there twice and once myself, both time with Nilgai. Sometimes you gotta do that which is made available.

Well, speaking of my own family, there have certainly been more deer lost to misplaced body shots. But the reason is that nobody takes head shots. Quite honestly, except for one cousin that’s a superb shot, most of them aren’t great shots. Now, if they all decided to start taking head shots, guess what would happen. Heck, that’s true of me too. I haven’t lost many deer over the decades, but I have never once tried a head shot, so all the lost deer (call it 3) were all body shots. I just shoot em in the lungs. Works every time. I don’t eat the venison ribs or the lungs, so no edible meat is wasted. Why not take the easier and higher percentage shot? That said, I can see the logic in trying to drop them on the spot. I have tracked a lot of deer through briar patches. But, lung shot deer rarely run vary far. If someone says they lung shot a deer and it ran for two miles, it wasn’t lung shot at all.

I suspect that some of you might be thinking that the world of hunters is just a larger group of folks like us - good shots, reloaders, picky on optics, and such as that. And I think you’d be wrong. We are the exception, not the rule.

Different strokes for different folks. We use the ribs and flank. A body shot turns most of the ribs/flank into a bloodshot mess, and thats best case if you dont clip either of the shoulders. Its a pretty fine line between not touching either shoulder and the guts. Most lung shot deer go down in short order, but ive had more than a handfull over the years cover 100-200 yards... in waist high or taller dead winter grass and brush that can turn into a heck of a wild goose chase even with a decent blood trail.

I know I'm late to this party. A .224 projectile is not my go-to for deer, and never will be. I use it on hogs almost exclusively when not in deer season. But if a hog runs off I honestly won't even look for one very long. It's rare they do given I ear-hole them.

For deer, I want something with a little more oomph. But that's not the topic.

That being said, to the OP's point, a usual suspect 22-250 would not be my choice due to them normally having a slow twist for bullets in the 50-60 grain range,. I'd be looking to use a minimum of 70gr bullet knowing I was hunting deer. I've never pondered or researched this, but I'd be curious if other cartridges might push a heavy 224 better, or not? If I were building a 22-anything for deer, I'd want at least a 1:8 twist, maybe even a 1-6.5 or 7" twist. Then the cartridge pushing that bullet would be chosen based on its efficiency at doing so. That might, or might not, push me to a custom build or something, like I said I haven't gone down this road.

The old timers I grew up hunting with ( who I later had to realize were not all that experienced or knowledgeable about hunting in general ) used to preach a neck shot. Not for any other reason than it dropped a deer in its tracks when properly executed ( they were also the type to cut the deers throat immediately after). We were always told a heart shot as ok if you had to take it, but a lung shot would result in a very long tracking job.

I don’t know when this line of thinking became antiquated but it’s interesting to note how times, attitudes and opinions change from generation to generation. I also don’t know anyone who cuts a dead deers throat anymore.

About 15 or 20 years ago a group tried to popularize a .22 caliber deer round based off the 6mm case I believe. Called it the .224 TTH and it would use a 70 grain bullet if I remember correctly. Basically duplicated the ballistics of today’s .22 creedmoor.

It enjoyed some success in small circles but I haven’t heard about it in years.

Things do change. I haven’t cut the throat of a deer in over 50 years. And that was back when dogs were used to run deer, and I have to think that cutting the throat of a deer that had been run hard might have been the right thing to do in the interest of good tasting venison. Hunting the way we do now, the deer are not full of adrenaline when they die. Maybe that’s why we quit cutting the throats. I’m just guessing.

As for tracking lung shot deer, it could be that the bullets are more destructive than they were many years ago. Lung shoot a deer with a mild (by comparison with today’s calibers and bullets) round and maybe they did run further. But, I used a 35 Remington back in the 60’s and I lung shot them then and they never went far.

One of the biggest bucks I ever shot was hit in the heart, and he ran maybe 100 yards into the biggest briar patch in Louisiana. There’s no perfect method to shooting deer.

Blast from the past, we never cut throats unless something was still kicking.... but my grandpa cut the nutz off every buck he shot immediately lol anyone still do that?

Bottom line to all this ridiculous talk is practice and know what you and your equipment's ethical limitations are. I bet the same guys telling everyone these are not ethical shots are the guys who shoot a box of shells a year....consequently if that is the case it sounds like they know their limitations and that's great. I won't tell you what your limitations are and YOU don't get to tell me what mine are...'merica!



That a solid 4-6" on most deer and if I felt like that was my margin of error, I wouldn't take those shots either. Perfect example of knowing you or your equipment's limitations.

Blast from the past indeed. I grew up hunting around several old timers that always cut the nuts off first thing lol. Never cut any throats though unless they were still alive.

My ex FIL (RIP) always cut the nuts off. I always just went along with it.

Where and how to shoot deer has been figured out longer than anyone on this board has been sucking air. That has not changed in a very long time and is not likely to change for a very long time. The biggest change to the discussions that revolve around the topic is the internet gives anyone an anonymous voice in the discussion, whether they know beans about it or not.

I just got a Tikka T3X 22-250 with a 1:8 twist to replace my Remington 788 with a 1:14 twist. I have some 68 and 75 gr bullets I'm going to load up and probably go up from there. I'm betting the 75 gr Hornady ELD-M bullets at around 3,200 fps will do a pretty good job on pigs and deer. I'm planning to put a couple of does in the freezer this year with it, and hopefully some pigs and coyotes.

Maybe so, when they are all hunched up, head down etc. it seems like a much smaller margin than 6 inches. and when your trying to put a 3-4 inch wide wound channel through there it gets grayer.

Head down eating wheat, or I'll intentionally make a move and get one looking at me, if their head is up. In both scenarios I'm chambered, on fire, and they are already in the center of the scope. You watch them long enough eating wheat and they slowly step forward. Time the steps so that what the momentary pause happens, squeeze the trigger. Facing me, the shot goes right under the chin. Have done the same on a cow elk as well.

January 2020, I shot a big doe at 200 yards, in the last few minutes of legal light. I was rock solid, but because of lighting, I went for lungs with a 7mm-08 shooting a 162 A-Max. She ran towards me, then darted to my left. I stayed put, but my hunting mars told me he had hit a doe in the lungs, and he had started the blood trailing. In between Ballinger and Winters, TX, there's all kinds of grass and brush. We were in the dark, hands and knees trailing his deer. He hit her at 90 yards, stable shot, .308 Win and a 165 gr right through both lungs. We found her 100 yards and over an hour later. Exit was a good 1 1/2". He, the rifle and the bullet all did a fantastic job, but we had to blood trail. We got his deer gutted and hung, then went looking for mine. Same song and dance. Found her 100 yards away, through both lungs, exit 1 1/2" tracked her 100 yards in the dark. By the time she was gutted, and both deer were quartered and in the cooler, it was midnight. Both were shot around 5:30.

He told me the weekend before they had the same story. .30-06, 180 gr, 100 yard shot, great shot placement, bullet performed perfectly, 1 1/2" exit. They blood trailed her for 100 yards

Yeah, give me a brain stem shot if I can get it.

Like I said way earlier, if you are shooting vitals, you are opening yourself up for having to blood trail. And it doesn't matter a whole lot on what bullet, what cartridge, at what impact velocity. It's just the way it is. So all of us that shoot vitals need to be good or get good at blood trailing because it is going to happen.

I think I have more bow kills than rifle on Big Game so blood trails are something to look forward to.

I’m glad I’m not alone, I prefer to sling lead mostly these days but I’m excited when a critter runs into the thicket out of site. The funnest part of shooting something for me is the blood trailing part. If I see it pile up I still turn into a CSI investigator following the blood watching the patterns. I thought I was the lone weird duck doing that.

3 blade expandable wrecks havoc on the heart/lungs.

I’ve had one long tracking job on a lung shot deer, just one. Doe shot with a .22-250 bonded bullet. She was still alive when we walked up to her. Bled good but just didn’t do enough damage.

All the ones shot with my .270 or .257 wby went down quick, normally within 20-50 yards.

If I need to drop a deer on the spot, high shoulder and it’s lights out.

May have to dust off the 22-250 and try it this year or my 22-250 Ackley. Shot 2 different bucks with the 450 Bushmaster both ran with shoulder shots one 50 yards the other maybe 75. The fastest killing gun I ever had was a 257 weatherby. 300 blk out for a few out to 100 yards with neck shots. Mostly pistol hunt now if im hunting small food plots with 44 mag or 460s&w 6.5 284 Norma on the pipe line. Will probably try the 22-250 Saturday evening on a pig had a group at the feeder this evening 100 yards was pushing it for the10mm Banshee. Wife wants to shoot the spotted one.

Heck, I can always use the exercise. In addition to wanting to keep the area quiet, exercise is the reason why I leave the ATV parked until meat is on the ground.