Texas Hunting Forum

Talk Me Out of a 280AI

Posted By: TexFlip

Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 02/28/21 09:40 AM

Looking for a medium game rifle. I got rid of my short mags a couple years ago, have 270s and 30-06 but want something else.
Posted By: Pitchfork Predator

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 02/28/21 01:13 PM

You are changing from one of the most available rounds to not so much .... I recommend the 6.5CM because it DRTs and is more available for rounds...
Posted By: J.G.

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 02/28/21 01:13 PM

DO IT!

24" barrel, 162 gr over 2900 fps. Might as well sell the .270's and .30-06. You won't need them anymore.
Posted By: rickym

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 02/28/21 01:18 PM

Why not a 7-08?
Posted By: Crews

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 02/28/21 01:38 PM

Great caliber and if you just want one then get it, there doesn't have to be any more to consider than that.

If you are asking for actual practical considerations, it's going to boil down to what you're going to do with it. Will it kill a deer deader than the aught six at 300 yards? No, not really. It definitely has a place in the myriad of options out there. Maybe something like re-barreling your 270/3006 with a faster twist and getting more performance out of your long action .470 bolt without stepping up to a magnum bolt face. In my opinion you'd have to have a very specific use case to justify going with a more boutique round like 280AI.
Posted By: RJH1

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 02/28/21 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Crews
Great caliber and if you just want one then get it, there doesn't have to be any more to consider than that.

If you are asking for actual practical considerations, it's going to boil down to what you're going to do with it. Will it kill a deer deader than the aught six at 300 yards? No, not really. It definitely has a place in the myriad of options out there. Maybe something like re-barreling your 270/3006 with a faster twist and getting more performance out of your long action .470 bolt without stepping up to a magnum bolt face. In my opinion you'd have to have a very specific use case to justify going with a more boutique round like 280AI.


This is kinda end up too.

If you are wanting a new gun get it. If it is a caliber decision then look at the uses for the gun and select caliber based in use. For me personally, i would probably never buy a 280ai since there are much more widely available rounds that do the basically the same thing. I have done the boutique/form your own stuff before and found that it wasn't for me and that i didn't see enough in gains to put up with the logistical aggravation.

But that is my opinion and your usage may be way different
Posted By: Big Fitz

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 02/28/21 02:23 PM

Assuming you reload, factory brass is available and seems like a great cartridge nearing the speeds of 7MM Rem Mag.
Posted By: Buzzsaw

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 02/28/21 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by Big Fitz
Assuming you reload, factory brass is available and seems like a great cartridge nearing the speeds of 7MM Rem Mag.

love it

proven caliber over and over
Posted By: TAB

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 02/28/21 02:34 PM

If I could only have one rifle this would be the caliber of choice. I’d get the faster twist barrel and shoot them 197 grain ice pick looking bullets
Posted By: J.G.

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 02/28/21 02:36 PM

I think 175 ELD-X is what I would load in mine, if I had one. Hell of a BC, hell of a sectional density.

Personally, I buy brass, primers, powder and bullets anyway. Can't remember the last time I fired a rifle round that I didn't load. And .280 A.I. brass can be purchased already in A.I. form.
Posted By: DStroud

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 02/28/21 03:17 PM

It’s the only AI caliber that I have ever recommended to someone I liked.
Posted By: QuitShootinYoungBucks

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 02/28/21 03:18 PM

I have a 300WM but it’s not a hunting rifle. If I was building a new rifle, the 280AI would get a strong look and likely be the choice. But you already have two pretty similar options in your safe. What about going bigger, like a 28 or 30 Nosler, 300 PRC, or even a .33 of some sort?
Posted By: Son of a Blitch

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 02/28/21 04:19 PM

I approached FiremanJG a couple years back with what I wanted in a rifle and he suggested a 280AI. It checked every box I wanted. We spoke about the build and he took it and built it from there. Not too long after, I was picking up my custom rifle and running it out to 800 yards with ease.

I was going to start reloading, so that was not going to be an issue. There is 280AI factory ammo for sale, and I’ve heard good things about it, but I think you can really see it shine when you reload and find the perfect recipe. Mine shoots 162 ELDM and ELDX at 2900fps+, and I’m 6/6 on one shot kills since using it. It is now my absolute favorite rifle I’ve ever shot. Incredibly accurate and it gets the job done! 1/4 MOA easily. And closer to 1/8th when I do my job correctly. I would talk you into a 280AI rather than out of one! smile I love everything about it. If you have any other questions you can email or call me. Would be happy to chat about it. If you are looking to get someone to put it together for you, call Jason!

PS - mine started at a Rem 270 donor...so you have a good starting block if you decide to use one of the ones you have for it...just a thought. 👍
Posted By: snake oil

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 02/28/21 05:05 PM

I sold a Kimber in 280AI to a friend of mine because of recoil. Yes I'm a sissy.
Posted By: psycho0819

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 02/28/21 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by FiremanJG
And .280 A.I. brass can be purchased already in A.I. form.


Not right now. I cannot find anyone with 280ai brass in stock, and haven't been able to for months. I'm guessing the manufacturers are focusing on the more mainstream rounds. I even considered fireforming from 280rem brass but can't find it either.

In response to the OP's post: I love my 280ai, mine is a custom built Encore, I had it built for spot/stalk hunting in the mountains so I chose the Encore platform, no action results in a lighter and shorter rifle that a repeater. My Encore has a 26" barrel and is still shorter than my '06 with a 24" barrel. But since that's not the topic, I digress.

I have hunted Texas game primarily with a 708 for a few decades, and while I have zero complaints about the 708, I have come to love my 280ai just as much over the last 10yrs. I run cup and core bullets (Sierra GK) thru the 08, they just seem to perform better on game at 08 velocities. I run 160gr Nosler AB's thru the 280ai as the added velocity seems to make them function better on game. I tried them in the 08 and just didn't seem to get the expansion they show at the higher speed the ackley produces. The 160gr AB from the 280ai on deer or hogs seems to be just the right combination of bullet construction and speed to crate a nice wound channel without destroying everything within 6" of the wound channel like a typical cup/core bullet can, and it retains enough weight to exit with monotonous reliability. I have never recovered one.

For reference, as mentioned above I have a 30-06 as well, and while any of them will kill a deer or hog just as dead as the 280ai, I just like it better than the '06 for some reason. I do not get into the long range stuff, but if looking to I would not hesitate to build a 280ai for that purpose either. The Encore is a very functional platform within its limits, but it will never be an optimal benchrest or long range precision platform. The 280ai is an extremely versatile and efficient round. And sure, you can load it pretty warm and start approaching factory loaded 7mag velocities, but start handloading for the mag and the gap widens again. So an Ackley will never be a 7mag no matter how much anyone wants it to be one. Again, being on the single shot platform I do not push the limits the of the round due to stress on the frame and hinge pin, but I get respectable velocities from it.

If I had to do over again, I would not hesitate to build another 280ai. Just wish I'd have stocked a bit more brass for it before the stupidity we are presently experiencing.
Posted By: cbump

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 02/28/21 06:57 PM

Don’t do It.
Posted By: RedSnake

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 02/28/21 07:09 PM

My favorite rifle. Hands down. JG helped me spec mine out. I run the 168 Berger vld

Tikka Action
Bartlein 3b 25” 1:9
McMillan Game Scout carbon fiber stock with edge fill
Our AICS bottom metal with 3rd or 5rd Accurate Mag magazine

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Posted By: TexFlip

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 03/01/21 02:58 AM

Thanks for all the replies.

Originally Posted by Pitchfork Predator
You are changing from one of the most available rounds to not so much .... I recommend the 6.5CM because it DRTs and is more available for rounds...

I'm keeping my 6.5, but with the 16" barrel and weighing 14lbs; I'm wanting something about half the weight and enough azz take an elk in the 5-600 yard range.

Originally Posted by rickym
Why not a 7-08?


Already have a couple. Wanting something a little bigger.
Posted By: cowie14

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 03/02/21 01:10 AM

I would shoot your .270 or 30-06 out to 600 yds and see what happens. Shoot the one that is more accurate at 100-200yds. Both easily will take an elk. You would be surprised with the right cartridge or load they will shoot really well.
Posted By: LeonCarr

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 03/02/21 01:19 AM

Make your .30-06 a .30-06 AI.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr
Posted By: TexFlip

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 03/02/21 01:21 AM

Originally Posted by cowie14
I would shoot your .270 or 30-06 out to 600 yds and see what happens. Shoot the one that is more accurate at 100-200yds. Both easily will take an elk. You would be surprised with the right cartridge or load they will shoot really well.


Originally Posted by LeonCarr
Make your .30-06 a .30-06 AI.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr


I need something I can shoot suppressed, they were my dad's guns and I don't want to modify them.
Posted By: cowie14

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 03/02/21 01:31 AM

Originally Posted by TexFlip

I need something I can shoot suppressed, they were my dad's guns and I don't want to modify them.



I gotcha! Then I cant talk you out of any of the 7mm especially the 280 or 280AI, 24" or less if your going suppressed. I forgot also .284 Win, it might be old school but it has won countless long distance competitions!
Posted By: RedSnake

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 03/02/21 01:56 AM

Originally Posted by LeonCarr
Make your .30-06 a .30-06 AI.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr


Or.... Make your 30-06 a 338 Sherman
Posted By: Smokey Bear

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 03/02/21 03:39 AM

Wrong crowd to talk you out of a 280AI but I will try, just because you asked. 280AI is great choice for a Ricky Bobby 280 up around 62k psi. There are a lot of good .284 projectiles to choose from too. Shortening the barrel on an Ackley Improved to run suppressed kinda defeats the purpose of an ackley, which is to run it fast. Something with a short stubby case like a 270 WSM or 7 WSM might check all the boxes in a 20-22 inch barrel suppressed.
Posted By: kmon11

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 03/02/21 03:42 AM

Originally Posted by Smokey Bear
Wrong crowd to talk you out of a 280AI but I will try, just because you asked. 280AI is great choice for a Ricky Bobby 280 up around 62k psi. There are a lot of good .284 projectiles to choose from too. Shortening the barrel on an Ackley Improved to run suppressed kinda defeats the purpose of an ackley, which is to run it fast. Something with a short stubby case like a 270 WSM or 7 WSM might check all the boxes in a 20-22 inch barrel suppressed.


This mimics what I have thought but not said.
Posted By: J.G.

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 03/02/21 04:04 AM

Originally Posted by Smokey Bear
Wrong crowd to talk you out of a 280AI but I will try, just because you asked. 280AI is great choice for a Ricky Bobby 280 up around 62k psi. There are a lot of good .284 projectiles to choose from too. Shortening the barrel on an Ackley Improved to run suppressed kinda defeats the purpose of an ackley, which is to run it fast. Something with a short stubby case like a 270 WSM or 7 WSM might check all the boxes in a 20-22 inch barrel suppressed.


I've had a (heavy) 20" 7mm-08 for several years. 162 gr at 2640 fps MV.

I wanted a light 16" rifle, but 17" was as short as possible for the lathe with no extension. So, had I built another 7mm-08 with a 17" barrel, I would have lost 60 to 75 fps. Instead, the 17" is a 7mm-08 A.I. 162 gr at 2640 fps MV.

Same can be said for giving a .280 A.I. a short-ish barrel. Being the A.I. variety, you can pick speed back up over a standard cartridge.

Having said all that, I am also a lover of the 7 WSM.
Posted By: chicken fried

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 03/02/21 05:34 AM

I like the 280 AI a bunch. Just get it because you can’t have too many guns.
Posted By: Blanco

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 03/02/21 10:57 AM

I don't know much about 280 AI
what would be the advantage over 7Remmag ?
no more belted mag case, but performance would be close.
7mag would have the nod on availability and cost to operate.
so what is to gain in going with 280AI ?
Posted By: wp75169

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 03/02/21 12:27 PM

Less powder consumption and recoil.
Posted By: J.G.

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 03/02/21 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by wp75169
Less powder consumption and recoil.


Right.

Does more work with less fuel. Efficient case geometry.
Posted By: redchevy

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 03/02/21 02:17 PM

I want one too!
Posted By: Smokey Bear

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 03/02/21 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by FiremanJG
Originally Posted by Smokey Bear
Wrong crowd to talk you out of a 280AI but I will try, just because you asked. 280AI is great choice for a Ricky Bobby 280 up around 62k psi. There are a lot of good .284 projectiles to choose from too. Shortening the barrel on an Ackley Improved to run suppressed kinda defeats the purpose of an ackley, which is to run it fast. Something with a short stubby case like a 270 WSM or 7 WSM might check all the boxes in a 20-22 inch barrel suppressed.


I've had a (heavy) 20" 7mm-08 for several years. 162 gr at 2640 fps MV.

I wanted a light 16" rifle, but 17" was as short as possible for the lathe with no extension. So, had I built another 7mm-08 with a 17" barrel, I would have lost 60 to 75 fps. Instead, the 17" is a 7mm-08 A.I. 162 gr at 2640 fps MV.

Same can be said for giving a .280 A.I. a short-ish barrel. Being the A.I. variety, you can pick speed back up over a standard cartridge.

Having said all that, I am also a lover of the 7 WSM.


That makes good sense. I like the short powder column of short action and short mag cartridges in a carbine length barrel for a more complete burn. With the OP looking to lose weight, a short action makes even more sense. 7 WSM would give a little separation from what the OP already has.
Saying all that, I really like the 280 AI
Posted By: Kevin1

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 03/02/21 03:40 PM

Have you seen the availability/price of powder?
I'd go with a round that would burn the minimum powder for the intended purpose. Like a 6.5 CM grin
Posted By: Korean Redneck

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 03/02/21 03:45 PM

280ai is what I would like to eventually convert my 30-06 700 into. It's just low on my priority list currently. Since I'm addicted to reloading, there is probably nothing that 280ai can do that between the woman's 270 and my 30-06 can't do for since I don't hunt much. However 280ai just seems like one of the coolest calibers on paper. We get far enough in life, I'd honestly love to convert both the woman's 270 and mine in 280ai.
Just a dumb story I tell myself when I first started reading technical ballistics/rifle shooting info... 6.5mm calibers seem to shine in the short actions, 7mm in the long action and 30 cal in the magnums with today's newer, heavier bullets. My long term plan is to have one of each.

I always admired family gun stories. I never received such stories/guns. I have installed pillars, bedded the action and would like to do a barrel nut/remage swap on my 700. The dream is that will be a family gun story I can start because with this rifle will probably come with like a couple hundred pieces of brass loaded and a few load recipes. The assumption is that this caliber will never go mainstream even after I die (assuming normal free Americans still can own gun when I die), so my loads will invoke memories.

Besides, I kinda just like saying 280ai.
Posted By: rickt300

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 03/03/21 01:04 AM

I have all three. All built about the same. I run them in rotation and just cannot see much difference between the 270, 280AI and 30-06. Since I put together my 7-08 the others get even less use. Great cartridges all.
Posted By: BigRon

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 03/03/21 01:09 AM

Two words: ammunition availability

I know of of no other real drawback or negative to the 280ai. But that’s a big one.
Posted By: J.G.

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 03/03/21 02:05 AM

Originally Posted by BigRon
Two words: ammunition availability

I know of of no other real drawback or negative to the 280ai. But that’s a big one.


This goes toward the topic that applies to every single cartridge known to man.

There is no substitute for ammo that was developed, and tuned specifically for the rifle it was loaded for. It is a game changer for any cartridge, barrel contour, and barrel length.

I've seen smoking good ammo developed for Rifle A, look not so good in Rifle B. Of course there is ammo the does well in many rifles. But 100 yards ain't that hard. Make a load shoot at, or less than 1 1/2" at 300 yards, and the rifle owner is ruined for life. Off the shelf ammo isn't even a thought.
Posted By: RedSnake

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 03/03/21 02:52 AM

stir Derrick at Horizon did a 7-6.5 PRC wildcat. He used a 6.5 PRC reamer in a 7mm barrel then throated with 7 rem mag finish reamer. Neck up the brass to 7mm and rock on.

Case capacity mirrors the 280ai but in a more efficient case. Told me he was getting better velocity with H4831sc and a shorter barrel than an equivalent load in a 280ai and a longer barrel
Posted By: Korean Redneck

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 03/03/21 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by RedSnake
stir Derrick at Horizon did a 7-6.5 PRC wildcat. He used a 6.5 PRC reamer in a 7mm barrel then throated with 7 rem mag finish reamer. Neck up the brass to 7mm and rock on.

Case capacity mirrors the 280ai but in a more efficient case. Told me he was getting better velocity with H4831sc and a shorter barrel than an equivalent load in a 280ai and a longer barrel


That sounds awesome too.
I'd like to first master my current set up of very standard calibers. However I can't wait to take on some of these wildcats. I'm really digging the coolness factor of having something one off.
Posted By: J.G.

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 03/03/21 07:06 PM

What's the big diff from a 7 WSM?
Posted By: Korean Redneck

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 03/03/21 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by FiremanJG
What's the big diff from a 7 WSM?


Honestly no good reason, it's as stupid as the shortness of the case just looks goofy to me. plus I knew a jerk who would not shut up about his 270wsm i probably just became petty about it. When 6.5 and 300 prc came out, I was sort of wondering why not also the 7mm. Seemed almost obvious to me.
Posted By: BigRon

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 03/11/21 12:14 AM

Reading this thread has me wanting a 280AI. I’m trying to limit my calibers to the ones I already stock ammo for, but I may violate that. I was in Alamo precision in hurst today to get a barrel fluted and they have 2 very nice custom rifles for sale, both in 280AI. Must be a sign...
Posted By: Korean Redneck

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 03/11/21 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by BigRon
Reading this thread has me wanting a 280AI. I’m trying to limit my calibers to the ones I already stock ammo for, but I may violate that. I was in Alamo precision in hurst today to get a barrel fluted and they have 2 very nice custom rifles for sale, both in 280AI. Must be a sign...


Do it!
My cousin tells me there is no coincidences, just unrecognized providence.
Posted By: Reloder28

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 03/14/21 02:51 AM

Originally Posted by Buzzsaw
...proven caliber over and over



280 AI is a cartridge, not a caliber.
Posted By: Dan S.

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 03/16/21 05:05 AM

7-08 and don't look back
Posted By: ccoker

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 03/16/21 01:15 PM

I had a Nosler years ago.. I absolutely loved the gun and caliber, 140g Accubonds were very effective and accurate.
I eventually got rid of it because I just didn't have the time for handloading anymore and factory ammo was scarce and expensive.

I now have a 7mag that is also a very lightweight rifle and with a can on it the recoil is totally fine..
They both are very close in performance and 7 mag ammo has a ton of options...
Posted By: Rutersville

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 03/16/21 02:43 PM

You don't want a 280 AI, you just don't....

You don't want to shoot sub 1/4" groups @ 200 yards......

[Linked Image]

You don't want to hammer an Elk at 300 yards and have him drop in his tracks.......

[Linked Image]

And you darn sure don't want to be on the last day of the hunt, having not seen anything for 4 days, have a bull step out at 415 yrds, quartering away from you headed for the timber and have to run the bullet up his spine (to find it lodged in his rt shoulder) to drop him in his tracks.......

[Linked Image]

Life is too short to deal with all that........
Posted By: retfuz

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 03/18/21 10:37 PM

Is the .280 the same as the 7MM Remington express?
Posted By: kmon11

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 03/18/21 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by retfuz
Is the .280 the same as the 7MM Remington express?


Yes,
Posted By: Reloder28

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 04/06/21 01:42 AM

Originally Posted by retfuz
Is the .280 the same as the 7MM Remington express?


Yes, & the 7mm06.
Posted By: kmon11

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 04/06/21 01:51 AM

Originally Posted by Reloder28
Originally Posted by retfuz
Is the .280 the same as the 7MM Remington express?


Yes, & the 7mm06.


Nope on the 7mm06 being the same. The 7mm06 can be chambered and fired in some 270 Winchester rifles so they pushed the shoulder out enough that the 280 and 7mm Remington Express will not chamber in a 270 and fire. Winchester did not pay attention to this and had to delay the introduction of their 7mm WSM until they reworked it the same way.

The express came out as a way to try and breath more life and interest in the 280, but too many were seeing 7mm Remington and thinking Magnum and buying it for their magmun, so Remington changed back to the 280, that happened in the early 80s IIRC
Posted By: Chunky Dunk

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 04/06/21 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by ccoker
I had a Nosler years ago.. I absolutely loved the gun and caliber, 140g Accubonds were very effective and accurate.
I eventually got rid of it because I just didn't have the time for handloading anymore and factory ammo was scarce and expensive.

I now have a 7mag that is also a very lightweight rifle and with a can on it the recoil is totally fine..
They both are very close in performance and 7 mag ammo has a ton of options...


That old 280AI is still running strong! All my hunting buddies call that rifle "Jerry Lee" its a killer!
Posted By: Reloder28

Re: Talk Me Out of a 280AI - 04/06/21 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by kmon1
Originally Posted by Reloder28
Originally Posted by retfuz
Is the .280 the same as the 7MM Remington express?


Yes, & the 7mm06.


Nope on the 7mm06 being the same.



Realized my mistake while opening this response. You are certainly correct.
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