6mm ARC

Hornady was to announce this one at the NRA show but with COVID that got changed. News announcement today

https://www.hornady.com/6mmARC#!/

Interesting....a 2k fps 108 grain cartridge just doesn't excite me for some reason. I wonder what the 87 grain bullets will be able to be pushed at?

The case is the 6mmAR with the body shortened .03 inches so real close to the velocities people are getting with it.

http://6mmar.com/

Factory results show 2750 fps with a 108 grain bullet in 24" AR barrel. It's like a 6mm Grendel. I love it!

I’m in for this one - I’ve tried 6mmAR and 243 lbc and contemplated 6mm Predator

All three of those the dies are either not made or 130.00 plus.

I’m in for the simple fact that I can buy reloading supplies for normal pricing and load up some 90 grain bonded bullets for terrorizing hogs.

Just need the supply chain to catch up to Hornady’s marketing team ....

I misread the chart...that 2k fps number is at 500y.

I've got zero use for a 24" AR barrel but I'll be watching what it'll do in a sub 20" barrel.

Paging Mr. Wilson - how far out is a Wilson Combat 6mm ARC barrel ?

They didn't claim it was an AR, just 24". Would be interesting to know. Also, almost nobody is running a 24" AR.

Real world, it's going to be 2500-2550 out of a 16" barrel, which still makes it a sub-300yd deer gun (1000 ft/lb). But low recoil, AR platform, great downrange ballistics, and factory support are great things. Could be another winner for Hornady.

According to Beckstrand 2698fps from a Seekins 20" so maybe 2640fps from a 16", should be north of 2600fps anyway

I think they have a winner with this one. I like the 6mm projectiles in the AR-15.

Midsouth already has components, Hornady was going to release this at the NRA convention but with it canceled they delayed it, giving time for getting stuff in the supply chain. More videos in the link below

LINK

We should be shipping them by the end of June, all of our R&D testing is done and we have the first production run in process. Prices will be the same as a comparable 6.5G or 6.8SPC bbl

Hell yeah!

I would like to know what 16” would do

Which mags?

Grendel Mags, if you have a 6.5 Grendel AR just swap the barrel and you have a 6mmARC all other components are the same.

We will be making the following, all threaded 5/8-24:

16" Ranger .675/.750/.650
18" Recon .800/.750/.740
20" Recon .800/.750/.740
20" Super Sniper .925/.875/.840

6.5 Grendel mags seem to work fine

I love the idea. I love 6.5 grendel. Got one in a Ruger American. Considered getting a 6ppc barrel but this seems more practical if someone like Hornady is pushing the caliber.

I called and left my info with Lamar - take my money !!!!

Don’t forget the THF member discount

Lantac has some velocities and their work on the 6mmARC on their Facebook page

Barrett has the following link on their website for news

https://news.barrett.net/2020/06/03/barrett-announces-shipment-of-6mm-arc-rifles-to-us-dod/

So does this mean we can expect some ammo soon?!?!

How would this be a step up from a 6.8 120 sst?

Inside 200 yards, it won't be. If you calculate the 108 at 2620, it steps out of the muzzle with 1646 ft lbs, just a shade more than the 6.8. However, at 200 yds the 6.8 is at 1120, while the ARC makes 1128 @ 300 yards.

A good bit of this is going to depend on barrel length and just how much you can hot-rod the ARC. But there's no denying the BC on the 6mm carrying much better down range.

There is never ending splitting of hairs on AR calibers.

Look at all the BR bolt gun wildcats. This has been going on for a long time.

I still give it a meh but carry on.

Hey, if it sells more rifles and ammo, helping to keep the gun industry healthy, it's good for all of us

Think we can get 65 pages out of this new AR caliber?

Nope but on another much smaller forum we are up to 11 pages on it

I thought we already had the 6mm Grendel, am I wrong?

We do however it isn’t backed by the market players so...

In 6mm AR land you have to size down grendel brass with Redding dies and bushings and it’s 100% handload

So for me - from a coat perspective I dropped out of 6mm AR.

I’m back in for 50 dollar dies and preformed brass !

In fact I guess I’ll list my 243 LBC barrel in the classifieds since I won’t be needing it...

I wish Hornady well with it, I like them. I just don't have a need to incrementally increase caliber by less than a mm from 5.56 to 12.7

what caliber bolt faces are compatible with the 6mm arc

.136 bolt face depth - I.e. 6.5 Grendel bolt

I keep seeing AR, what about a Bolt

Patrick, it was introduced for the AR, just like the Grendel was....depending on success you’ll see bolts on the market son, just like the mini action Grendel from Howa.

Howa has signed up and they make 6,5b Grendel bolt actions

I do think this round is much more versatile and marketable than the 224 Valkyrie.
I ran the 6mm on the 6.8 case for a while and it was a very efficient round with up to 80 gr bullets. The fact you can run 105’s and readily available components will IMO put it ahead of both Valkyrie and Grendel especially if military does continue support.

Had about five people shoot 6.5 Grendels on my range, and all the way to the end. I bet this 6mm will be lots of fun to shoot as well. kmon1 told me of the 6mm Grendel last year, and it's been in the back of my mind. Hornady realized the potential of the wildcat, and said "well, we will just make a standardized cartridge much like it". Hornady impresses me every year. I've spoken to Tech Support twice, and they are always helpful and very friendly. They are one of the companies out there that is is obvious they have shooters working for them.

Hornady listens and aint skeerd. I guess I mean they got $$$

Would you want a bolt? I think I'd go plain jane 243WIN if I wanted a 6mm bolt. 6ARC is a bit weak compared to it, because it was limited to AR15.

Had one, was never impressed with the factory ammo

I wonder how this cartridge compares to the 6 Dasher which is used in both benchrest and PRS? Judd?

You know there is a way around that.

I’m running 87 grain VLD’s at 3200 fps, Patrick and seems to work really well.....getting 1/2 MOA out of a factory (mostly) 700. Just need to learn how to shoot!

Less velocity than the Dasher, Some of the Grendel 6mm variants have been standing up quite well in some competitions. The 6mm Rat, 6mm fatrat, 6mmAR are a few that come to mind.

I look for bolt actions from 3 manufactures before long, Howa, Ruger and CZ which all have Grendels now and it is just a barrel change to have a 6mm ARC from a Grendel.

Patrick Howa is on board to build their mini action bolt gun in it. I expect Ruger and CZ will also have some boltactions before long but with CZ you never know.

Advantage over a 6.8 or Grendel I would say none inside 250 yards or so. further out the 108 and 103 gr Hornady bullets will give it an advantage over the 6.8 and Howa for target use and enguaging targets at longer distance. More splash from the bullet down range than the Valkrie and light enough recoil to spot your own shots, which I do with the Grendel from My AAR anyway. A handloader can use the Grendel and beat the ARC velocity with 100 to 108gr bullets but they do not have the BC of the longer 6mm bullets so loose that advantage before 300 yards much like the Grendel does with the 6.8 SPC.

The owner of the 65Grendel forum put it this way between 6mmARC and the Grendel

Grendel is a good hunting cartridge that works well for hunting and is fun for Target shooting out to 1000 yards but will not be competitive against larger cartridges with more powder capacity

The 6mmARC is a more of a target cartridge that will do better past 500 yards than the Grendel with light enough recoil to be your own spotter and works for some hunting.

The Hornady Marketing Juggernaut keeps rolling ....

Dies are on the way - Midsouth shows in stock today

Still seeking brass ...

6/8/2020: Barrel ordered from McGowen Precision - this is a hunting barrel so

18” Threaded 5/8x24 w an 11 degree target crown, mid-length gas , 1x7.5 twist , 416r stainless with Matte finish , .750 gas block , .078” gas port size.

My Objective for this caliber: I know I don’t buy any special performance for hunting over my current 6.5 Grendel or 308s - quite simply I have 1000 90 grain speed deep curls that need to go from my shop shelf into pigs and this will be a SAMMI supported and economical delivery system versus the other 6mm semi-auto calibers.

Hopefully I can get 3000 FPS , will await load data to know more

First report I have seen from an actual 6mmARC owner

Nice work! I just got word that Brownells is shipping my barrel that I had on order. Should have it next week. Or the week after. Or sometime! These "covid-related delays" in shipping are a bit confusing and maddening at the same time. Looking forward to some range time with the ARC!

My build status:




STILL hunting for brass ........

Found brass ! It is in the form of loaded 105 grain BTHP (Hornady Black). Midsouth Shooters Supply has it IN STOCK and ON SALE for 20 bucks a box.

This will allow me to have some factory (proof loads) and I can reload the 100 cases for around 1.00 a pull.

Ordered the upper receiver and hand guard today too.

Damn I wish my barrel was ready, already....

Something occurred to me today

90 grain bullets available for 6mm ARC: 10

Game changer, eld-x, Nosler BT, GMX, Accubond, scirocco, e-tip, Berger target, HotCor, Scenar

90 grain bullets available for 6.5 Grendel: 2

TNT, Varmageddon

90 grain bullets available for 6.8 SPC : 2

Gold Dot, TNT

Advantage 6mm ARC - all three calibers drive them to about the same velocity -

And usually sectional density would be less for 6mm BUT from what I’m seeing in comparing the closest apples to apples is intriguing .

6mm HotCor sectional density : .218

6.5mm TNT : .188

6.8 SPC TNT : .168

Advantage 6mm ARC

I'll take a bolt action or better yet, a pistol(braced). A Tikka CP similar to the Remmy for the smooth action.

I’m ready - just waiting for a care package from McGowen .....

Anybody up and running yet ????

I recently tested the 100 gr. Speer BTSP on a pretty good hog. It was almost broadside at 150 yards and I went for a heart shot (bullet testing), hit the onside leg just in front of the "elbow" , opened up considerably and came out the other side in a couple of places making a couple of 1/2 inch holes. Hog flipped backwards, came down on it's back and did the shuffle. Never have I seen a pig bleed this much, it was in a sand trap on a golf course and I have to rake the sand to make it look like the grounds keeper did it along with removing the hog before daylight. Had to go find a shovel, dig a hole and put the bloody sand in the hole and spread the just dug sand evenly with a sand rake. I didn't open the hog up to see how much of the heart was destroyed but it must have still been making some pressure! This from a 243 and velocity is right at 3000fps. Might be a good bullet to try in the ARC.

The OFFICIAL , unofficial, dedicated 6mm ARC forum is now live - check it out !

http://www.6mmarc.com

Yup, John decided it is time for one.

A little 6mm ARC load data

I finally got the last couple of pieces from Brownells and have the rifle built. Unfortunately, I have no brass, no dies, no factory ammo, but I can tell you from personal experience that the my new 6mm ARC dry fires beautifully. I feel that that's good start. . .Some ammo MAY come in from MidSouth this week. Of course, they said it would deliver this week. And Brownells said my low profile, adjustable gas block would be here 2 weeks ago, and it got here yesterday. I'll let y'all know if and when I ever get a chance to launch a round down-range with the new baby.

Some in stock at
LINK

Went there; they had the Hornady Black in 105 grains so I order some. No 108's in stock.

Thanks for the lead!!

I saw that one earlier on the 6ARC forum. Guy that owns the 65Grendel forum started another caliber specific forum for the ARC

LINK

I've got everything but some ammo to shoot through it, so I'm ready to go!

So....

7 weeks after the big reveal , still no load data on Hodgdon’s site

Still no brass available for purchase

And the barrels are hard to come by, at the moment only proof research steel barrels are in stock at a couple places.

A few shooters have come across very small lots from Odin Works, Ballistic Advantage, and CMMG

But so far I’d say the caliber is off to a slow start.....

Probably got pushed by Marketing to make the announcement, while supply side was hammered by Covid and can’t deliver real product.

Not sure why it took so long but all the recent cartridge wars reminded me that the only reason why anyone would design something new is to sell more guns and ammo. I mean, it's not like we don't already have plenty of choices that are 100% effective when used correctly.

Hornady filled the large hole in the 6mm -AR-15 platform market.

Before 6-ARC only wildcats were available or stepping up to AR10 (243 Winchester)

I’m also of the belief that Hornady marketing got way ahead of the Industry on this and frankly Ir sucks to watch from the sidelines and home brew load recipes off closely related calibers.....

Slow start for sure considering they delayed their official release since the middle of March at the NRA convention. Hodgdon does have a little data out there, posted a copy of it previously in this thread. Here is the LINK to Hornady data

Primers, powder, and some brass is tough to come by. And has been for a long time.

No, the reason to design something new is to correct inefficiencies and/or problems of what was currently available.

I still can't understand why you push back so hard on American engineers, that are coming up with new ideas.

Oh wait, I just remembered something...

From the consumer's perspective, the value of any product or service can be measured in terms of utility and warranty. Utility is defined as being "fit for purpose", while warranty is defined as "fit for use".

What is the purpose behind this new cartridge and how will its use offer the shooter or hunter anything above what is already available to them?

No question the folks at Hornady did a great job getting hunters to see the 6.5 Creedmoor as a more accurate (warranty) cartridge that would make them a better hunter (utility). The fact they probably already owned three or four rifles that were plenty accurate at the shot distances they most often take is besides the point.

And the case geometry is so good, the case has been wildcatted 3 times already, in only 13 years. Not the first time I've written that either.

For those that want to dig into this. Because Dan elicits the same response, but does not pay attention to the response.

Go back to 1906 A.D. what is the shoulder angle on the .30-06?
In 1952, what is the shoulder angle AND bolt face of the .308 Win?
What is the shoulder angle of the .270?
What is the shoulder angle of the .280?
What is the shoulder angle of the .243, the .257 Roberts, the .260 Rem, the 7mm-08?

In 2007, the 6.5 Creedmoor, what is the shoulder angle?
The 6.5x47 Lapua, what is the shoulder angle?

Look at the 26 Nosler, 28 Nosler, 30 Nosler, 6.5 PRC, .300 PRC, what's the shoulder angle?

Now, in 2020, look at the same things about the 6mm ARC. Bolt face, case length, shoulder angle.

Why the shoulder angle, and case body change? It is more efficient.

Show of hands, who daily drives a vehicle over 20 years old? I know already know the answer. Who here daily drives a vehicle over 100 years old? No one, why? They're worn out. But if they weren't, one built in the last 10 years is far more efficient, more capable, and more comfortable to drive.

It is all called progress. Progress gained from experience, lessons learned, and experimentation. I will never understand those that choose to begrudge those that achieve these things for the betterment of the rest of us. It is as American as apple pie.

Hornady planned to release this in march at teh NRA Convention and that fell through with Covid shutdown at that time, then came necke down, 6mm Fatrat the big gun and ammo run putting about all manufactures behind wand with Covid concerns to go along with that. Hornady has been making the Grendel for years and were the first t produce factory SAAMI ammo for it and developed their 123gr 6.5 bullets for it that have done well.

The Grendel case is based on a ppC case with the body lengthened and to hole a 6.5 bullet. There are several different wildcats using the same case. 22 Grendel, 6mm Fatrat (improved Grendel case) 6mmAR simply a Grendel necked down, 6mm Fatrat (improved 6mmAR) Grendel MAX which is just an improved 6.5 Grendel, a 277 version, 30 cal and .358 and those are just the ones I know of. Now Hornady shortened the 6mmAR by .03 in body and case lenght for the ARC.

There is some Hornady data for the 105 and 108gr bullets on their site but not for the lighter weight bullets. LINK

Reports I have seen on factory loads from Hornady are about like the last time I coroned some Hornady Grendel loads over 100fps extreme spreads from the dame box. Sometimes I think Hornady os trying to make things too fast or something. But even at that one reported sub MOA from his new barrel at 300 yards which is not that bad for new AR Barrel and factory ammo.

From the looks of Hornady data it looks like they might be using LVR powder for their factory loads which could kinda make sense.

I may be wrong but think the reason for shorting the Grendel case that .03 was to use the longer 108 bullets nd have the full chank of the bullet in the case instead of changing the bullet and loosing a little BC which they did not want to do in order to get what the Military was looking for out of an AR, otherwise it would be simple to just standardize the 6mmAR. Many of our SAAMI factory cartridges were the result of reloaders wildcatting the current cases at the time.

FACTORY AMMUNITION FOR 6mm AR-15s

I like the fact Hornady continues to innovate as JG and Kmon1 have indicated. It is good for the consumers. This is the first cartridge since the 6.8 SPC that I have been excited about and will probably get one eventually. My gut feel is the 6mm bullet is optimum for an AR15 platform.

X2

Public Service Announcement :

Seems possible that Odin Works barrels have a short throat / chamber , multiple shooters reporting Hornady Black 105s getting stuck in the lands and powder spillage

Once this is has reasonable availability, I'm definitely in.

This is why I never jump in early. Things get rushed out too quickly.

Wise words....

Here are a few photos of my first range trip today with my 18” Proof Research barrel - mind you Proof has been working with Hornady during development of the caliber well ahead of the release for public consumption.

Well despite all that R&D and big marketing campaign it didn’t prevent me from spilling powder into my upper and lower and using a cleaning rod to clear the bore - TWICE.

Looks like classic oops screw up. Somewhere in the chamber/throat on those or the ammo is off. Something is not right

I just got in 4 boxes of the Hornady Black and a Faxon/Brownell's 14.5 heavy barrel...should be able to do some testing this weekend

I had chambered a few of the 105 BTHP (Hornady Black) rounds at the house and they didn’t have a problem being extracted.

It wasn’t until the range trip when the rifle was cycling and feeding from the magazine that the problem occurred.

At this point I’m betting on ammo being the issue.

TexJitter: Measure your COAL on the factory ammo , I hear hornady might adjust them to shorter soon...

Mine measured between 2.2485 - 2.2515 “

I would call before ordering just to be sure it is in fact new unprimed brass , if anybody orders and receives please post back here that it is confirmed 6 ARC brass.

Too expensive for me after shipping and credit card fees.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/876883344

Concerning factory ammo sticking in the lands of some barrels....

Here is a video I made of my proof having problems with 105 Factory Hornady Black and below the video is a recap of a phone call with a Hornady tech this

8/18/2020: I just got off the phone with Hornady.

They are not completely putting ODIN and Proof in the hot seat - the tech says they could stand to shorten the COAL for the 105 BTHP Black ammo.



He says what most likely happened is that Hornady sent “high speed reamers” out to barrel makers, these reamers are good for only 10-15 chambers (they are non-carbide).

It may be that these gun manufacturers went in to full production with these high speed reamers and so early runs of barrels can be short or tight in the throat.

He says I can seat the factory loads deeper to use what I have and I said no thanks.

He said maybe chasing the throat with a carbide reamer will fix my barrel and I said I wouldn’t want to do that to a 500 barrel.

So now waiting for proof to respond....

Update again - proof responded , they don’t have any 105 BTHP on hand to test barrels with, they requested photos of a chambered round which I will send to them shortly.

Meanwhile.... I talked to another barrel maker who is working on a barrel for me and they said they’re aware of the “issue” and they think the bullet diameter of the 105 grain BTHP is towards the higher end of tolerance.....

Continuing to trouble shoot this .

I finished up my build of the ARC, grabbed my single box of Black ammo, scooted out to the range and began testing. First shot fired, but didn't eject. I couldn't pull the bolt open with the charging handle, I had to pry it open. Shot one more round with the same results and decided something was terribly wrong! The primers were totally pancaked and the head stamp was battered. I pulled down a couple of the rounds and weighed the powder charges: first one was 25.3 grains; second one was 28.8! I went ahead and measured the COAL on the remaining pieces and it varied from 2.250 to 2.285. Next I mic'ed the cases: 1.485 to 1.495; not a particularly high variance, but the SAAMI spec is 1.490. In my opinion, this box of ammunition is dangerous trash, and I'm really disappointed that Hornady let it get out. I'm sure they were rushing to meet demand, but that's no excuse, imho.

FYI, this was Hornady Black, Cat. # 81604; Lot # 3201395

To fix the problem, I first dropped the COAL to 2.2 on a couple of rounds; that didn't fix the extraction problem.
Next I trimmed a couple of cases down to 1.482; that didn't fix the problem but the bolt became easier to open
Next I built two rounds with 25 grains of the powder I recovered, put into two cases that I had trimmed to 1.482, and seated the bullets at 2.20; didn't fix the problem but the bolt was at least short stroking, trying to eject.
Opened up the gas block a tiny bit, and, bingo, the machine began to operate properly. Since I still haven't gotten the dies or the brass that I ordered many moons ago, I was having to do all this experimentation with that single box of factory junk. When the dies arrive (?), I'll continue my testing and share any information I gather from that work.

Let Hornady know about that 3.5gr is a huge variance in powder for that small case

Anybody see the Hornady reloading data for 6-ARC (gas guns).

If you did , want to talk about FALSE ADVERTISING

I’d be a lot more interested in this round if I could see the speeds for a 78g Vmax, the 100+ grain rounds do nothing for me for coyotes. If I want heavy and slow I’ll shoot my Grendel.

Hornady says the 75 grain V-MAX can be pushed to 3050fps with 33.5 grains of LEVERevolution. Didn't see a 78 grainer in their latest data.

I didn't find AR-15 load data Wade but did find this for bolts. Should be a potent little varmint cartridge in an AR platform.

Yup and the bolt action loads they set max pressure on at 62000 PSI while it is 52000 osi for the AR, so there will be less velocity from an AR at those pressures

This is their gas gun data; bolt gun data shows a higher MV possible, and pressures up around 62K rather than the 52K for gas guns.

https://www.hornady.com/assets/site/hornady/files/load-data/6mm-arc-gas-58-105gr-data.pdf

AR-15 data in the link above

3000 FPS for 75 grain in an 18” barrel

Looking at some other sites this data lines right up with 6mm PPC load data for velocity which makes little sense , I was hoping it would line up more with 6mmAR or 243 LBC velocities .........

3000 FPS isn’t terrible especially from an 18 inch barrel. I like my 243 at 3300fps better though, really don’t want to have to step down to the 50 grain bullets. That 75 Vmax just wrecks the coyotes

just saw george gardner ga precision is on the bandwagon, hes going to build a ar-15

and

a bolt action which will really make this an effective round.