AR style shotguns?

Good? Bad? Ugly?

This would be for a potential helicopter hog hunt, running 00 Buck shot.

My normal shotgun is a Winchester Super X 2. Guess I could remove the plug and wear my dove hunting vest if that's a better option.

The VR 80 is the only one I’d consider. The triggers SUCK. The guns themselves where hard to find but they may be more available now.

A 10 round tube for the SX2 would be a lot cheaper and probably just as good... or better.

Probably be quicker to reach in the bag and shove rounds in the mag as needed, as opposed to switching the detachable mag out. Then reloading those mags is gonna take some time, because I'd probably only buy two.

The AR style was just a thought.

By far best shotgun I’ve ever put to work was a Benelli Super Black Eagle

Not the prettiest but best I’ve ran

I’d put it against the rest

You said AR and Benelli ain’t it but when I hear best...

It’ll hunt, I promise

Are you limited to shotgun? I only ask because leads could be really long.....

Not at all. I'll have my LR-308 with me as well. Tony told me the best weapon for putting down big numbers is the shotgun with 00 Buck. Of course, I'll also bring a rifle. This comes down to what the pilot can do.

I’d love to take my VR-80 flying. A couple of 19 round mags loaded with federal flight controlled buckshot would be good medicine. Loading the mags for the VR-80 may be a bit more awkward than than a tube fed gun but the trade off is a red dot capable shotgun.

Personally, I’d leave the shotgun behind in favor of an AR chambered in either .308 or 6.8.

I’d prefer the shot gun. Most outfitters suggest it and I assume for a reason.

They suggest it because most people they take up can’t shoot very well..

Fireman is a pretty active shooter and can probably adjust faster than most.

.

I’ve been on one helicopter hunt. I’m pretty good running an AR. If I was going to go on another hunt tomorrow, I’d take a shotgun and #4 buck.

Our outfitter supplied ARs and loaded mags. Leading was a learning curve for sure but with almost unlimited ammo I sure learned to lead the dust into them.

Mossberg 930 with an X-rail.

I like your idea of removing the plug... Maybe also look at getting an extended magazine so you can hold 8 or 10.

When I first saw a photo of one I thought how the mass shooters are going to love them.

As the case with .22 rifles that hold many rounds, I can see a legitimate need for AR-style rifles for target practice and hunting hogs using noise suppression. But I just don't see a civilian need for a shotgun that holds 15 or 20 rounds.

I like my 40 yr old 870 ringmaster pump. Can get 5 ads on target very quickly and never have to worry about a malfunction.

Look up JTS. They are good guns with adjustable gas settings for light or heavy loads. 10 shot mags

^^^^^^

Shotgun with an extension tube. I’ve also heard the same about helicopter hunts. Buckshot is more effective than an AR.

If you can find one Benelli M 121. I shot one of these in a skeet league one year and quit a bit since. Get accustom to it and you will be waiting for a SBE or Montefeltro (own both) to cycle. By far the fasting cycling shotgun I have ever shot.

Ok boomer

You, sir, are part of the problem.

WTH is this ignorant liberal BS?? Good Lord.

Well he did throw the Flag of The United States of America in the trash so...

Keep drawing unnecessary attention and see where it leads you. Or perhaps you don't mind having to purchase yet another permit and waiting at least a year to shoot your new toy?

If you don't already have one, just get Sony's latest PlayStation and you should be fine.

Wait... do what? A “civilian need”? You’ve been watching to much CNN. You do realize 2A has NOTHING to do with hunting or target shooting, right? Those things aren’t mentioned once. Are you for real?

I’ll get a package deal with an AR shotgun, 20 round mags, and a PlayStation.... boomer.

That's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard, drawing unnecessary attention?? You are most definitely part of the problem.

For someone who threw our Nation's Flag in the garbage can over the election of barrack obama, you sure as hell sound a lot like him.

Impressive the level of stupidity from someone who posts stupid stuff daily

Personally, I don't see a need for them either, but I sure as hell would not question another citizens right to have one if he or she desires one. Your argument of "another permit" shows that you either don't understand the 2nd ammendment or you have just given up defending it.
Jason, sorry for hijacking your thread with the useless ramblings of an idiot. If I were you, I'd just go with the rifle. My guess is that you know your way around a rifle better than you do a shotgun. Also, you've gotta post video!

Try to take a more holistic view of my comments while combining them with the history and impact of the bump stock and you might better understand the potential impact these newer shotguns could have on future firearm regulations.

Yes, all bump stocks did was bring useless attention to AR-style rifles and add more regulation.

I’ve never wanted one but all this BS from someone telling me I shouldn’t have one has sparked my interest. PSA has a couple nice looking ones.

Shut up Dan, you're an idiot.

Get the F outta my thread, commie.

Everyone else, my Super-X 2 might be a 2005 model, but that year it was the fastest cycling shotgun made, beating the Italians. It runs faster than I do. Mybe the tube extension for that and be done with it.

I'm not much of a Mossberg fan but this one looks like it might be an option. I haven't heard many warm fuzzy reviews of the AR style scatterguns.

Mossberg 940

Jason you’re welcome to barrow my 3Gun shotgun it’s ready to do what you need. Also have a rail for it if you wanted to mount a red dot on it.

This is exactly what I would do

I don't have a problem with semi shotguns. Hell, I own one as well as a pump. I don't have a problem with shotguns that hold five or six plus one. But a shotgun with a detachable magazine that holds 24 plus one is just another AR bump stock set to attract another nut case and review by those looking to slide more regulation past the Second Amendment.

Now continue on with your debate on who owns the biggest and baddest.

So, you're following what the liberals have fed you. That machine is resposible for mass shootings, not the person doing it. Do you realize I could make history with a bolt action rifle? But I won't because I am not a psychopath.

I have a specific job for a high capacity shotgun, and it is hogs. And you're not wanting me to have one for fear of people getting killed with it. Lunacy!

Good luck with your hunt JG... something Ive always wanted to do!

So your viewpoint is "don't manufacture this type of weapon because it is the type that the left would want to ban". So in effect, you are doing the EXACT SAME THING as an unconstitutional weapons ban. You are either lost, or you are as JG puts it, a Commie. Which is it?

It will be a blast. But, it is also providing a service for myself, and my neighboring land owners. All around me is grazing land, and cultivated land. Hogs cost these people work and money, when they tear up the ground amd destroy crops, and tear up grazing land. There is no other animal I have such a hatred for as them. We won't let a coyote pass either, of course. If we accidentally bust whitetail out of the brush we will change course and relieve the pressure off them.

JG, when and where for this hunt?

Trash Can Dan strikes again with his anti-American sentiment.

Loony Toons called and they want Fudd back.

Can’t wait for the videos and pics Sir!

I would love to do that some day....

If it happens, it'll be near my place, on everyone's land we can fly to that gave me clearance. Plan on during the corn planting which is April.

This is awesome JG and I hope all your neighboring and outlying neighbors give clearance. Great service and will surely be a blast. Always great to have a real excuse for a new firearm.
Will you have ground crews ( truck/trailer) chasing for hog retrieval removal as some of your landowners may require while others may say shoot 'em all and leave 'em lay. good luck and can't wait for pics and video

Any land owner that wants them removed, will get what they want. I'm that guy that treats people's land like my own, and I am By Gawd picky about how nice my place looks. I know for sure a couple buddies that hunt, don't want to fly, and would he more than happy to pick up the hogs. Any meat they don't want, I'll pile up, cover with diesel, throw the match on it and not shed a single tear.

Yep. He should be shamed for eternity. The second amendment has nothing to do with target practice or hunting it's meant for war against tyranny and I'll take all the guns and ammo I could get.

Back to the topic and hand. The answer to your question is a Saiga Shotgun. It's an AK style action, with detachable mags and pistol grip. You can get big drum mags for them as well. They require some sort of kit to make them legal in the US, but it's the closest thing I've ever seen to an AR style shotty.

I’ve never seen a Saiga run very well, and I’ve seen a lot of them.

I've only seen one in action and it ran fine for a round of sporting clays, but again that was one gun for 100 rounds. So I can't speak to that.

I'd do ^^^^^^^ if I was you....but only if he let you use the matching shoes too

Hell, if he does that ask if he's got a set of white sunglasses to throw in the deal

The ones I’ve seen were all in 3 gun matches.

Fireman, I too would opt for a mag extension on your SX2. It is a highly regarded shotgun. No red dot or any of that nonsense needed on a shotgun. Shooting from a moving helicopter that should be about as intuitive a setup as can be. Have fun, that sounds like a rip roaring good time!

Dan, your comments are an affront to the 2nd amendment.

I've only handled one Saiga 12 5 or 6 years ago, belongs to a buddy of mine. We went through about a case of shells with it just shooting for fun, used 10 & 20 rd mags and also the 30 rd drum. Was a hell of a lot of fun to shoot, I burned through several 30 rd drums & 20 rd mags as fast as I could fire with no issues. I'm still thinking about getting one. Should be a blast from a chopper on pigs.

Haters gonna hate....

Oh my, how did I miss this. I got tears in my eyes... it’s gotta be the shoes!

Lmao dammit Judd

That is just one of the reasons we hate him Kyle.

Tactical Cowboy,

I defer to you on this. Because the mass killing from a helicopter is going to be TAF!

Imma buy a helmet, in case is crashes. Gotta be comms capable though.

Lesson #765 - you never pass the low hanging fruit

It isn’t necessarily needed but sure is nice. It is easier to track a running animal with the red dot than a plain ole’ shotgun bead. Where the red dot really shines, for me at least, is knowing exactly where the dot was when a hit or missed shot is broken. Again, not necessary but my hit ratio goes way up when running a red dot on a rifle or shotgun.

.

Do you use them on your bird gun?

No sir

It defeats the way a shotgun is designed to be operated....

I’m not sure what that is supposed to mean.

A shotgun is a scatter gun made to spread the shot out in a pattern. Not put it all on one dot. I'm guessing that's what he means.

It defeats the way a shotgun is designed to be operated....
[/quote]


I’m not sure what that is supposed to mean.
[/quote]

OK. When a shotgun is mounted properly the comb functions as the sights by placing your eye so the shotgun will center up exactly where you are looking. No red dot or bead for that matter is needed, and both eyes can be left open so your depth perception is at it best to judge distance and speed. Can be shot equally well daylight or dark. It should not need to be aimed to center up with or know exactly where it is pointed when mounted.

I’m not sure what that is supposed to mean.
[/quote]

OK. When a shotgun is mounted properly the comb functions as the sights by placing your eye so the shotgun will center up exactly where you are looking. No red dot or bead for that matter is needed, and both eyes can be left open so your depth perception is at it best to judge distance and speed. Can be shot equally well daylight or dark. It should not need to be aimed to center up with or know exactly where it is pointed when mounted. [/quote]



Good discussion.. Standing flat footed on the ground wing shooting quail, pheasants, passing dove, clay birds, etc.. against a contrasting sky isn’t the same as tracking a coyote running 40mph across varied terrain from a flying platform. I’m not saying it’s impossible or even overly difficult without a red dot. I’m simply saying the contrasting dot is easier to track against the earth and easier to call shots.

When I miss an animal with a red dot, I see the splash against the ground and my brain knows exactly where the bright dot was when I pulled the trigger. This makes for faster adjustments, acquisition and more accurate follow-up shots. When running a plain bead or even XS big dots on my shotguns, this process, for me, isn’t as fast or accurate as it is with a bright red dot.

I’m certainly no expert, only sharing my personal experience, nothing more. I’m not at all saying there is a wrong way to do it, only pointing out what has worked for me. If you ever have a chance to hunt from a helo, by all means take your sightless wing gun and have at it.

Misfire, I don’t mean this disrespectfully so don’t take it that way. You don’t know what you don’t know. I know shotguns well and have shot lots of stuff lots of times with lots of shotguns for a long time.
To “sight in” a shotgun:
Put in the tightest choke you have. Put a large piece of poster paper at 16 yards with a small spot in the center. 16 yards is used because at this distance 1/16” of stock movement will move your pattern 1” so the math is simple and coincides with a ruler. Look at the spot intently as you bring the comb to your cheek and roll your shoulder up and to the butt plate. When your shoulder gets there shoot. Do this 5 times. The patterns should lay right on top of each other making the core of the pattern obvious. Find the center of the pattern and measure horizontally and vertically to the spot. Now adjust the stock to move the point of impact. 1/16” of stock movement will move you pattern 1”. Shoot and fine tune. Once this is done you can take the bead off and throw it away if you want. Your pattern will intuitively center where you look for anything within shotgun range. There is absolutely no need to aim and there is no need for a dot to know exactly where the gun was pointed when the shot is broke. The barrel(s) are seen but only in your peripheral vision and you simply focus on your target and the desired lead, whether feathers or fur.
It is for this purpose that shims are now supplied with many new shotguns. Fireman is a gun guy. I would be shocked if he has not already taken care of this with his SX2. I suspect some of the “experts” will chime in.
Don’t take my word here, google is your friend.

All the Open division 3 gunners have dots on their shotguns. That should tell you something....

Agree TC but, unless I’m mistaken, those targets are stationary....making those dots very helpful in quickly zeroing in on the center of the target. I don’t know much about red dots, especially how they might affect field of view....I would want whatever gives me the best sight picture without affecting my field of view. JG, whatever you choose, have a ball...you work too damned hard (I know, your choice) and deserve a little fun.

It’s everything from stationary targets to aerials to slugs to buckshot. A good bit of the targets can/will be shot while the shooter is moving.


I’m not saying that a dot replaces shotgun fitment... at all.... but there is a world of difference in shooting a clay or live bird up in the air while standing flat footed and shooting at a critter or target below you while you’re seated and also moving. If I was going on a heli hunt tomorrow and already had a shotgun with a red dot, I’d take it. But I wouldn’t hesitate to take a shotgun with a bead either.

A helicopter is a pretty stable platform. I’m betting on it being dirt easy shooting and fireman piling them up, with or without a dot. It takes a fast pig to run 30mph which is not much lead at shotgun ranges, and they can’t hold that very far. Honestly the biggest hurdle that comes to my mind is being able to cheek the stock if he opts to wear a helmet. The closest thing to shooting pigs out of a chopper this old redneck has done is chasing jackrabbits across a pasture and shooting them out of the back of a bouncing pickup truck. That is pretty easy shooting and a Jack is a solid 35-40 mph critter. Post pics fireman.

So you haven’t shot critters from a helicopter but you can tell us all about how shotgun fitment is all that matters .... got it.

I have not cowboy but if you want to get together and shoot shotguns I am all in. Just you and me for fun or money and you can post how it goes. I know that you shoot in some competition and I’m not discounting that. I also know that I load and shoot about a flat of shotgun shells most weeks and know my way around a shotgun.

Smokey, I'm pretty sure you'll counter with something about my shotgun not fitting me but I went back through some video and pulled a screen capture in an attempt to illustrate my earlier point.

The first pic is a coyote I killed with an 870 pump gun, iron sights and buck shot. I circled the coyote in red so you can see it. The pic is immediately after the shot was fired so the gun is still recoiling. From the air, depending on the terrain they can be hard to track while running through the trees and brush with a plain ole' ball or irons. This is true of pigs too. The pronounced red dot is easier to track when everything flying past you is the same color.




By contrast, here is another screen grab from a coyote I napped with a 2nd round hit from a .308. For me, shotgun or rifle, a dot is more accurate and amounts to better success.




Pigs, of course, are a lot easier to hit than coyotes but you are dead wrong about them not being able to run full speed for very long. You would be surprised at how far they can run, full speed, through the brush and bramble. Sometimes the stars align and so do the pigs.. making them easy bacon. My personal choice is a large frame AR but if you can get down on them, a shotgun is awesome too..

That is awesome misfire and looks like a heck of a good time. We all do what we feel makes us most effective with what we shoot. I am well versed at taking game with a shotgun. I shoot 4-5 flats/month to stay sharp and prefer to shoot instinctively with a shotgun. You do you and I will do me. My hat is off to you for getting after the coyotes. I am 5 years into a cooperative project with the NWTF and TP&W to reestablish wild turkeys on some large private acerage and have been working hard on the predators. It is an uphill battle. I have used a helicopter to look at a lot of property in a short time as well as Ag work and wildlife surveys but never utilized one to shoot from. Looks fun as hell!

Fireman, my apologies for derailing your thread. I hope you F up the hogs from the chopper with your weapon of choice.

Alright. Let’s go shoot. I’ll bring ammo if you have a place to do all this.

Start shooting your trap gun or autoloader or whatever you want while seated with targets 90° from your shoulders. Then shoot them at 10 o’clock and 7 o’clock, or 2 o’clock and 5 o’clock if you’re a lefty). Then add a full or modified choke and some #4 or 00 buckshot. Once you’ve got all that covered, sit in the back of a pickup going 45 down a decent 2 track while shooting targets. That will get you close to what you can expect shooting hogs or coyotes out of a helicopter.


It’s a whole different thing than shooting quail over a dog. I’ve done that too. The gun(s) I would like to wingshoot with are entirely different than what I’d want to take on a helicopter.

Yeah I’m a lefty. I will PM you my contact info and yes I have the place to shoot covered.

I can see both points here. Proper fit of shotgun to shooter is quite important. And it is a point and shoot proposition.

I can also completely understand the contrasting sight image while looking at the ground from above. Even on an overcast sky, the shotgun can be properly pointed, same as a blue sky. But get above it, looking down at the ground, it is not difficult to see the benefit of the illuminated dot against a varying color and texture ground.

Judd we only met that once at Jason's place (thanks again for your help out there) but I'm pretty sure, you were the only one there without matching shoes.
Those white glasses won't work on the whirlybird, he'll need/want goggles, I think. Now, what Kyle has that helps in aviation hunting is that multi-colored hat with the little propeller on the top. I hope his pilot doesn't have one though.

HOLY HELL, talk about HUGE derail of thread LoL

Worst argument I’ve heard

Stuff like this drives me nutz

You vote Democrat?

The second amendment isn’t about target practice and hog hunting. What’s wrong with you?

Yep, scalebuster is right.

Ill never give em an inch

Interesting thread. I've often looked at the AR and AK style shotguns but never worked up the gumption to buy one - yet. Still think one would be cool to have if I could just find one that's reliable. Hunting pigs from a helicopter sure sounds like fun. Would love to do that some day. I definitely think I'd lean toward a shotgun too. I've shot running deer before but that was when I was younger and dumber. All the pigs I've shot weren't running though so it would take me half a hunt just figuring out lead between running animals and a moving chopper. A semi-auto 12ga with Buckshot would help in that regard.

Earl