Rifle Comparision - X-Bolt, T3X or Model 7

Looking for some feedback on some rifle configurations. Considering a couple different chassis in different calibers. Usage would be for South Texas whitetail most of the time, but want something that can do mule deer and Elk at some time in the future. All my other hunting rifles have been designated to my boys, so I'm looking for something I can use.

Browning X-Bolt Hells Canyon Speed 22"
Remington Mountain 22"
Remington Model Seven HS Precision 20"
Tikka T3x 22" (already have this in 7mm-08)

Chassis Thoughts -
I'll start off with the X-Bolt Hells Canyon Speed... I just like it. Probably good marketing on their part but I like the barrel coatings, the stock, threaded barrel / muzzle brake and potential for accuracy. I also wouldn't mind owning a Browning. The Tikka I already have belongs to one of my boys so I'm ready to try something else even though I really like it. The newer Remington's are not super high on my list... not that I don't like them as I already have several older SS ones. Just not a fan of the quality of their new stuff. Also, I don't want anything longer than a 22" barrel because most of the blinds we hunt out of are small and there's not a lot of room to move around inside especially when I have one of my younger boys.

Calibers
I have 7mm-08 & 270 in hunting rifles already but I'd really like a 308 as I have plenty of NATO (Lake City) 7.62 ammo to play with and just like the availability of the cartridge. I could also stick with the 270 (least common ammo that I have). Or be consistent with the 7mm-08 for which I have years worth of Hornady SST ammo (that will hopefully work well in the rifles).

So... looking for feedback on a good combination that will be a good North America hunting setup. If I had to do something today, I'd lean towards the Hells Canyon in a 308.

I have handled all the models your considering at the NRA show and own the Tikka. IMO it comes down to fit and bolt preference. Rifle Gear in Plano will have all these.......can't go wrong with any of the choices and every gun owner should have at least 1 308....IMO

I’ve owned several older Model 7s and they were good hunting rifles but I would not consider anything of newer production by Remington. The Hells Canyon interest me since it steps into a new market for Browning. I’d like to check one out and see how they did. My choice has been and will continue to be the boring Tikka. Other than the lack of a 3 position safety the Tikka is the best on the market for trigger, bolt, and accuracy. Claiming the best for any of those three is an accomplishment, they have all three.

Since you mentioned Mule Deer and Elk, why not step up into a mag bolt face long action. Everyone needs at least one. .300 Win Mag or 7 Rem Mag would be a nice addition to your collection.

So interesting, when I was searching for a new elk gun, I handled Tikka T3 and browning hells canyon. I found the action on the tikka sloppy and the stock cheap feeling, and it wasn't just one gun it was multiple. The Hells canyon felt better to me.

I know I don't know what I don't know, but it is interesting to hear someone say tikka is best in market for bolt, trigger, and accuracy, when everything in my body tells me this gun can't perform. I know they do, as evidenced by their following

I bet my lunch money the bolt and raceway was dry. Apply some Mobile-1 0W-20 and it runs smooth as silk. When that oil collects dirt, it still runs.

Well buckeye it’s simply my opinion so that doesn’t make it true except at my house. I can say the opinion is based on experience and ownership and thousands of rounds down range and in animals. The Tikka is certainly nothing to look at and does indeed feel cheap with the synthetic Lite stock. The difference shows up when you sit down behind it to drive.

Bolt operation I guess is also 100% opinion. I did have a 30-40 Krag that I thought was better so there’s that.

I do like the hells canyon speed. that is a neat rifle any which way you cut it.


I also like the 700 mountain and the Model 7.

I find the Tikkas cheap feeling. That's just my opinion.


If your asking what is a good box blind rifle, its gonna be hard to find a better gun than that, in a Model 7 chambered for 7mm-08. For a general purpose Texas deer rifle ( it would not be my first choice shooting down long senderos or over oat fields, I prefer more of a beanfield type rifle for that like a Weatherby accumark or Remington sendero for that type work ) its about as good as it gets.

If your Mule deer or Elk hunting is a one time deal....shoot what you got. if It becomes a every year deal..... Shots can get longer there than what most are used to here, so I like to have a gun that's set up for a little big longer range that carries a bit more horsepower. My built for purpose western rig is a lightweight rifle with a 26" barrel in .300 win topped with a 3x18 scope. Now that isn't near a ideal whitetail rifle but doesent hurt to have if your doing south texas trophy hunting.

a Remington Mountain or Hells canyon speed would be a good compromise in a appropriate caliber. A lot of people like the .308....its ok but not my favorite. I always was and always will be a .270 fan. I do like the 7mm-08 but I would give the nod to the .270 if having to use it as a mule deer or elk gun, or any other western species. That said, a 7mm-08 will handily kill an elk or mule deer at reasonable range with appropriate shot placement.

As mentioned before, if you don't have a magnum, this may be a good time, a 7mm Remington or a .300 in hells canyon with the muzzle brake will kick like a .270 and have more performance

Just reading your post...buy the Browning Hells Canyon. There isn't a thing wrong with that rifle and it sounds like you really like it better than the other two. You can't go wrong with what you are asking for in any caliber you've mentioned...270/7-08/308....I like the 7-08 and the 308 because of the short action and the ability to shoot heavier bullets...just more offerings in those two calibers.

Good luck and enjoy your new rifle!

Fireman,
I've got a Sendero SF1 in 300 win mag that I just don't use. I took it on one hunt down south and it was too long and bulky. It will shoot lights out, but that's only if I take it out of the safe.

For me, a mule deer or elk hunt would be a once in a while opportunity. If it became more than that, I'd consider stepping up at that time. Right now with my boys hunting, it will be the 100-250 yard shots on whitetail.

For caliber, I may start reloading in the future or go to Chad to have some custom reloads developed... so I'm thinking I could have something cooked up that would work for a mule deer or elk if I stuck with the 308, 7mm-08 or 270.

I agree, its your opinion just like what I wrote is my opinion. I also readily state I have not shot behind a tikka ever, and that's where the proof is in the pudding with these guns. I also agree that some oil might have made the action more slick.

In all transparency, my experience is comparing apples to oranges though, my "go-to" gun is a cooper 52, and my new elk gun is a fierce fury....so a little more orange than the apple. I was highly considering the Hells canyon for my elk gun, but when I found a great deal on the fury I had to buy it.

Not trying to say tikka doesn't make a good product, just not what I was looking for.

You can ship it, to me. Get it shortened as short as you'd like, a brake added, a Trigger Tech trigger added, and a load developed. It would be like a different rifle, which would be the point.

^^^ Jason knows his stuff. Sounds like a helluva good idea! You won't be disappointed. ^^^

Definitely not trying to compare it to Cooper. Cooper is on my dream list if I can ever unass the money. Funny I’ll spend more than that piecing one together but can’t bring myself to buy one already built. It’s a mental block I guess.

I've got a good friend that wants it more than I need it... so it's most likely going to him as is. Plus I think there is more value there for me if I sell it as is and then use that towards something that doesn't immediately require modifications.

Quick question... how do you shorten the barrel that has the flutes on it? I guess you'd have to chamfer the ends just above the threads for the brake.

I've had conversations with you in the past about the 7mm-08 when I went with the T3X and have been pleased with it's performance. So with that cartridge, as compared to 270 and 308... it seems I can still get a 150 grain off the shelf that doesn't seem to be too far off from 270 and 308 performance. Does the 7mm bullet just perform that much better? Not trying to start the feud between calibers.

Again... I'd really like to go with a 308, unless it's just a much better idea to go with the other two calibers. Cost and availability of the rifle may also play into this.

This gun shoots .75" groups with Hornady factory 140gr ELDM's , 6.5 Creed. My brother in laws and he shoots very little. I just mounted his new scope, I'll sight it in Friday.
There are some GREAT aftermarket triggers for the X-Bolt now, since it has become VERY popular factory rifle

Shortening a fluted barrel, really needs to only go to the flutes to look right.

7mm-08 really shines when you put a 162 gr in it. But, if you want to stay light, look at the BC of a 150 gr .30 cal, then look at the BC of a 150 gr 7mm. Higher BC means less velocity loss. Less velocity loss means less wind drift, and more energy on target.

I looked at Barnes' website and they quote a BC of .35 for a 150 gr .308, but then jumps to a BC of .47 for a 168 gr. But I think your point is that for comparable bullet weights, the 7mm will for the most part have a higher BC than the .30 caliber.

Sounds like you are pointing to a 7mm-08 in favor of the 308 for like bullet weights...

^^You got it.

Buzzsaw,
Is that the HC Speed or Long Range?

Why not the Hells Canyon in .30-06? Same 22" barrel as the .308 so it should still be fairly handy, and a good step up in performance over the .308 and .270.

I'd consider the 30-06 also if the price was favorable. I've got plenty of M1 ball ammo I could use for my service rifles. Just initial thoughts were to stick close to my other hunting rifle calibers.

TxTrophy,,, I don't want to hijack a good and pointed thread so hopefully you can answer without us getting off topic. Whats your reasoning for preferring 270 over 708 for Elk Mule and WT as it specifically applies in this context? I should change my screen name to "dumb as dirt but I wanna change that and I hope yall don't mind".

If a 308 is what you want then get it. It will work well for your stated purpose and there is an abundance of quality factory ammo out there. All of the rifles you are choosing from are good performers. Of your choices, I like the model 7 best for a straight up hunting rig. In my hands it wins for balance and pointability. Tikka is my last choice, unless you are a lefty, in which case it wins. The Tikka T3x I recently purchased shoots lights out. For all you guys on here that really like them, mine functions just fine. I guess I'm just an old guy, but I am struggling to warm up to the bottom plastic.
If I really wanted to include elk the in the mix, I would consider stepping up to a long action.

I can find more premium factory ammo selections with a .270 than I can a 7mm-08. And a .270 has a slight edge in terms of power across the board than the 7mm-08.

Both are excellent rounds, I’ve shot a .270 for over 20 years and bought a .7mm-08 for my oldest son and my wife and have one on order for my middle son.

Ok.. so there seems to be a decent amount of 6.5 Creedmoor rifles out there in the Hells Canyon. So if one of those became available, is it worth it to go to that cartridge for the same hunting scenarios I listed out above... comparing to 308, 270 and 7mm-08?

I love the looks of the Browning, I have the Tikka T3X Lite along with .270, 25-06 & .243. I bought the T3X Lite (SS) last year on sale at a very good price. I read a bunch about the 6.5 Creedmoor and drank the kool-aid. The stock does look and feel cheap, it also has Nylon (plastic) bottom. I ended up buying a B&C stock and real bottom metal for it. I like the looks more now and it shoots "gooder". They make the Hells canyon in the 6.5 CM and the PRC. I figure that what I now have tied up in the Tikka, may be close to the price of the Browning. I love the Creedmoor but am interested in the PRC myself. The newer bullets and cartridges are just awesome and seem to shoot well in all guns. The PRC does give you about 200 F/Sec more than the creed and both have mild recoil. Good luck.

The best hand load in a 6.5 Creedmoor and a 7mm-08 will wind drift exactly the same amount. The .308 is the winner in energy delivery up to 300 yards. Then the 7mm-08 is the winner in energy delivery 400 to 1000 yards, over both the 6.5mm and the .308 Win. .270 would probably hit harder than all three to 300 yards, but I have not ran numbers on it.

Thx Fireman...
So I have found the Hells Canyon in the camo pattern (TD-X) that works better for where we hunt, but it's not available in 7-08 and is in 308 and 6.5. Since I already have 308 for an M1A, I'm thinking if that is the pattern I prefer, I'll go with the 308.

I'll still be open to what may come up if I find something second hand. Nothing we have talked about is a bad combination.

So still doing some research. The HC speed in 308 (no 7-08 in current camo pattern) has a twist rate of 1:12. Is that going to be effective on bullets with higher than 150 grain (168, etc)? I know I have several boxes of 308 180 grain Remington loads if I remember... that heavy bullet just got me thinking. I also saw a note on the Barnes website that they recommend a twist rate of 1:11 or faster for their 168 grain bullet.

Personally I wouldn’t limit myself with a 1:12 on a .308. In my opinion the 178-180 class bullet is optimum for the .308. I would hate to eliminate them from what I can shoot. The 1:12 will do it with enough elevation, if you can push it hard enough, and hold your mouth right. The 1:11 will do it perfectly with plenty of Varget and will do it anywhere except under water.

Agreed.

A 1:11 twist is the least agressive I would accept in a .308 Win.

Long Range, Its got plenty of barrel !! Great gun with an aftermarket trigger added. IMO, it would get a little heavy if hiking with it. The 26" barrel just goes fast.

I'm shying away from the Long Range version of the HC due to overall length (one of the reasons I'm moving away from the Sendero). The Speed version has an OAL of 42" for SA and 42-3/4" for the LA. Going to the Long Range adds another 4 or so inches.

On the twist rates... that's all the 308 comes with in the Hells Canyon Speed (not available in the LR), 22" barrel and a 1:12 twist rate. For that matter... the 30-06 offering has a 1:10 twist rate in same barrel length. Is that the assumption that most folks are going with a lighter bullet on a 308?

So I guess my question is the 1:12 twist rate enough for me to abandon that 308 offering? Will I notice much difference within 300 yards... or when does it start to hurt performance? When will I start to suffer with a 168 grain?

Both of these twist rate charts suggest the 1:12 will stabilize a 168 gr.


http://riflebarrels.com/calibers-and-twist-rates/

http://www.shilen.com/calibersAndTwists.html

Because of a relaxed twist compared to the 1:10 I'm used to, I would plan on loading it pretty stout with H-Varget. It will make a bit more speed anyway, but you might need the fuel to make damn sure it is spinning hard enough. BC on some .30 cal 168's have really come up in the last few years. Point being, if you did want to play at long range, I would bet on it, not against it.

I agree that the 168s will be ok in the 1:12. My issue is with spending $800-1000 on a rifle knowing I can’t shoot certain bullets. You say you intend to shoot up to 300 yards with it, what happens when you become very happy with your abilities at 300? Will you be content with your 300 yard gun? Or will you say, wonder if I can go to 400? I don’t know where the handicap comes in with the 168s but I’m sure it’s at a shorter distance than with the 178s. This may be only me but I want to push to the limit of the caliber not the rifle. I will likely never hunt at those limits but I did take a doe at 505 with my 6.5x55 Swede this past season. Glad I had the right bullet and didn’t limit myself.

Edit: not intending to push you on your decisions, I just don’t want you regretting them down the road.

My M70 .308 varmint, cut to 20”, has gone all the way to the end of Jason’s range with 178 factory ammo (800 yds). I wouldn’t bet it’s faster than 1:12.

Realistically, I will have no shots over 250 yards where we currently hunt. 300 would be something unique. As I mentioned early in the beginning of the post... I'm moving away from my 300 Win mag Sendero b/c it's just not practical for what my needs are. I don't plan to reload anytime soon so I'll be using off the shelf or something Chad can work up for me. I mentioned the 180 grain ammo b/c somehow about 15 years ago I picked up four boxes (I probably didn't know any better). Most of what I have is 150 or 162 / 168 grain.

Based on the charts that Jason sent, looks like the 1:12 will work the majority of the time. Maybe Chad can work up something that will perform in that twist rate for the heavier bullets.

Again... really not wanting to go into another cartridge other than 7-08, 308 or 270. My boys hunt with the 708 and 270 so this would be for me.

I think you’re right about the 1:12 on that rifle. Definitely not 5000’ elevation I mentioned earlier either. How did your primers look? My 20” shot best near max with 178s. Slap flattened soft 9 1/2 Remington primers.

So if it came down to the 6.5 creedmoor vs the 308 in a 22" barrel... and usage will be the same whitetail, then mule deer, then ?? with majority falling to whitetail...

Am I correct in thinking the 6.5 will get the job done? Again... I'm really leading towards the 308, but wondering about the 6.5 and if I'm missing the boat. The Hells Canyon Speed still has a muzzle brake so thinking the recoil won't be too bad for the 308 in heavier loads (162 gr plus).

Looking for some last thoughts before I commit to the 308.

Will both work? Absolutely.

The .308 delivers more energy inside 400 yards.

Past that, the 6.5 Creedmoor has the edge. So most likely the .308 is your pick.

Just because...

I picked up a Remington 870 in a pinch last year, brand new. Kinda needed an extra gun for dove season deal

$225 OTD deal, clearance...whatever it was. Brand spanking new

I’d heard Remington had gone to crap

Oh my, they have. I wouldn’t buy anything Remington right now

New to the forum. Most of my boys and wife shoot Tikka's now. Out at the ranch I have a buddies X-bolt 6.5 Creedmoor. It's a fine shooting rifle though I find the action anything less than smooth. More and more of my friends and family are shooting Tikka's now after shooting ours. They're just hard to beat for function and accuracy right out of the box and they make an outstanding action for a custom rifle.

A few years back I went on a quest to have a custom .243 win built. I tried most of the major custom action out there. Nothing was as slick and smooth as my LH Tikka T3. I decided to go with the Tikka action as the base build. I had recess on the front end of the action milled flat and an octagon Rem 700 type tomb stone recoil lug cut that matched the outside of the Tikka action. I replaced the plastic bolt shroud with an aluminium bolt shroud. It sits in a McMillan Hunter stock, 22" KP SS match barrel with a Leupold VX6 1-6 scope with Warne quick detachable rings. It's the finest most accurate rifle I've ever owned. It's currently being re-barreled for 6.5 CM which I should have back in a week or so.

Jeff... agree about the Tikka's. I have a T3X lite in 7-08 and my oldest son loves it. I just really like the features of the x-bolt and the ones I handled felt smooth as well.

Good luck on the 6.5.

I like the way you roll.

Not sure about the others but recently setup a 28 nosler hells canyon for a customer and loaded some ammo for him and I was pretty impressed, out to 600yds still holding .75MOA with out trying to hard.

This one - does everything the Tikka does without the sloppy bolt or cheap feel, shoots lights out , just like the Tikka trust me!

https://www.eurooptic.com/sako-synthetic-black.aspx

Tikka has a sloppy bolt? I hadn't noticed.

Oh yes, depending on who you talk to, I was recently informed it was junk compared to a Cooper and more expensive rifles. Who would have thought.

I can't argue with the plastic stock feeling cheap but they do shoot and feed great.

I dropped mine in a McMillan Game Warden but it shot great with the factory stock.