Grizzly protection on a budget.

I need some recommendations on a quality cartridge & DA revolver for grizzly protection (cost and weight factored in if possible).

I usually take my G20SF into the backcountry when bear encounters are possible, but I’ll be passing through Denver on my next trip, and it looks like Denver’s bump stock ban also eliminated any legal posession of 15+ round magazines previously permitted by a state law grandfather clause.

I guess the silver lining in this is that I finally have a good reason to get a proper revolver for grizz protection.

What’s your budget?

44mag in nice heavy revolver works well

Ruger Blackhawk


44 mag
45 colt properly loaded.

$500-600

Ruger Alaskan

454

480

44 mag

$7-800

Mos berg 500 12 ga & slugs.

$300 or less

Under $700-800 including holster rig & ammo. I’m happy to entertain more expensive options, though.

All-weather finishes would be a plus too.

My vote would be a Ruger Blackhawk in .44 mag or .45 Colt. For the .45, load up some Ruger only loads with a heavy cast bullet (300 gr + WFN), or buy some Buffalo Bore or similar if you don’t handload. Standard Blackhawks can be found for less than $500 used, and they are built like a tank. The plow handle grip is not pleasant to shoot with the heavy loads, but is the most economical model when compared to the Bisleys and double actions from Ruger. Charter Arms makes some inexpensive double actions in .44 Spl and .45 Colt, but I don’t have any personal experience with them. It really comes down to what you want to spend.

Having worked on a Charter Arms or two, I would recommend NOT EVEN considering them for the intended purpose. I'm sorry, they're just cheap and no better than a Rossi IMO.

Excellent advice so far guys keep it coming.

Looks like the Blackhawks are single action only, correct? I’m thinking that could be an issue when SHTF if I don’t have the training / muscle memory to remember to [censored] the hammer between shots.

Damn language filter

Yes, single action only.

Just carry bear spray and save your money. $40, much easier to carry/deploy effectively, and works better when the SHTF during a grizzly charge anyway.

Granted, this is coming from someone who has only entered bear country once, and that was dead of winter...but I would personally feel better with a big honkin piece of lead than a bottle of spicy liquid. My personal opinion only. Other than that, I have absolutely nothing to add.

NG I’ll pass on your suggestion. FWIW I also carry bear spray, but the peace of mind proved by a firearm can’t be overstated.

My group encountered a mama grizz with two cubs in Glacier NP two years ago. We were smart enough & lucky enough to be able to keep enough distance between us to avoid a conflict thankfully. I promise you I was not wishing that I’d left my gun at home.

I’m not going to argue about it. That’s the way I expect almost everyone on a Texas rifle forum to feel. But the facts say otherwise. Spray will stop most charges. Lead will stop only those where the CNS is shut down. Watch a grizzly destroy everything within a 20’ radius after being shot in the boiler room with a .375 and you may feel differently - and that’s without him having a defined threat/prey objective.

I get it though. It ain’t macho.

Ruger Alaskan or similar. Heavy enough to manage the recoil some but not so heavy it’s like carrying around an anvil.

Look up what happened to Brian Murphy in Glacier a few years ago and you’ll see where I’m coming from. Bear spray did nothing. His .357 did.

Edit double post

What would you want in your hands? I can tell you a can of pepper spray would feel very inadequate when that big sob turned toward me.

Look, I’m not clueless. I’ve spent a ton of time in grizzly country. I’ve hunted them. I know grizzlies are dangerous. That’s not the point here. Neither is the point to kill a grizzly for your trophy room.

The point is what gives you the best odds to stop one from killing you during a charge. The best grizzly protection (budget or otherwise) is bear spray. I posted the studies that prove it.

Glock 29-- 10rd capacity, smaller overall package than your 20.

Also-- check the actual statues on the magazine ban-- lots of exemptions to that law AND if you were in possession of the magazine prior to 2013 it is still legal... and the burden of proof lies with the prosecution.

https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/cbi/firearmstatutes

Odds are one thing. Clearly you’re willing to dismiss an outlier and play the percentages. I am not. Simple as that.

Save your arguing for the Bunker

I don't think I'd trust my survival to what I read in a single research paper. There are too many papers out there that "prove" things that just are not true.

From what I’ve found it looks like Denver city ordinance 38-130 removes that grandfather exemption within the city. 38-130 i 3 would give me a defense from prosecution since I’m a non-resident, but it wouldn’t keep me from getting arrested for posession if a LEO on a mission really wanted to cause me some trouble. Highly unlikely, yes, but it’s not really a risk I want to take.

I'm a belt and suspenders guy when it comes to things that will eat me, so I would carry both. When we're in Alaska, we never leave the house to go walking, fishing, or hunting without my son taking his bear spray. He usually also has his 10mm, but even if he doesn't have the gun he has his bear spray. That stuff is wicked and it has been proven to work, but I would still want the extra insurance of a firearm whenever possible.
BTW, I'm not saying a 10mm is the best choice, it's just the best hand gun choice he has. I'll probably take my .44 mag with me this year.

I think the 10 mm Glock is a good choice

The 10mm is definitely much better than pointing my finger and yelling pew pew pew!

12 gauge pump with OO Buck.

Do you have to stop in Denver? I go through Colorado frequently and I avoid driving through Denver just because of the traffic. I like to go through Greeley, Limon, Lamar, and Springerville. I think it's highway 385, no traffic jams or gun restrictions.

I don't want to talk you out of buying a new revolver though. The Taurus Tracker is the only think I can think of that may make your budget. I think S&W 629s are about $700-$800 anymore. Plan on spending another $200 on a holster and ammo.

I do unfortunately. Flying up to stay with a buddy for the night before we drive up to Grand Teton NP. Thought it would be cheaper to go this route rather than pay for airfare from DFW to Jackson Hole. Looks like I was wrong haha.

You don't always die when you get mauled by a bear. This guy was mauled twice and he was fine.

This is what my fishing guide carried on my Alaska trip. It was loaded with slugs and buckshot alternately. Bear spray was his first line of defense though and had me carry spray as well.

Anyone have experience with a Taurus tracker? .44mag and comes with a stainless finish for ~$600

Research says that the effectiveness of bear spray the second time is a real bad deal. So technically you would would need both anyway.

Just change mags.

https://gunmagwarehouse.com/glock-magazine-glock-20-10mm-10-round-polymer-black.html

Love the Tetons. Spent some time in beartooths also. Hope you have a great safe trip

Thanks for the link BOBO!

have a safe trip, great country

Shouldn't that be "Bearteeth?"

Glock makes ten round mags, which is four more than a revolver. Also, the rate of fire will almost certainly be faster, and likely more accurate too unless you put in a lot of very focused range time with the revolver.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/709996/glock-magazine-glock-20-10mm-auto-10-round-polymer-black

Yes- I have one in a 4” barrel. It shoots very well, the action is acceptable, and recoil is not that bad due to the ridged rubber grips and the ports. I would not recommend it for more than a few shots with “bear loads”, though.

jeffbird shhhhh don’t tell my wife - I have her convinced I need a new revolver


What are y’alls thoughts on a close encounter with a semi and the possibility of the slide getting pushed out of battery causing a failure to fire / cycle properly?

Thanks for the heads up!

Ironically why I was hiking there. Never saw one though.

Pistols are real good shooting at a target. But what happens when you really need to be accurate?

Steve Rinella on the subject. He is a grizzly researcher/specialist and strongly advocates spray as the more effective method, citing both his experiences and the various studies done. Google will get you this and a lot of other info on the subject.

If I were taking one of mine it would either be a Ruger Security 6 with a 4 inch barrel or S&W performance Center 629 which is quite a bit larger. For either one they would be loaded with heavy for caliber hard cast gas Checked bullets. A Guide in Alaska carries a Double action 357 as does his daughter that also guides. They have stopped bears with the 357s. Best hope of stopping a bear with a handgun is a CNS shot and deep penetration is needed and is the reason for heavy hard cast bullets. His logic behind the 357 is more aimed shots in a short time than with a hand cannon.

Hard to deny a man “needing” a new revolver.

When choosing tools consider what the pros use.

Phil Shoemaker lives on Kodiak and is one of the premier bear guides there, tangling with the biggest bears on the planet.

He posts regularly at 24hourcampfire under the handle 458Win, the primary rifle he has carried for 36 years. It is worth spending time reading his posts for his first hand experience and thoughts.

Here is a hint, shot placement and bullet construction.

For starting the reading -

https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/...ith-9mm-pistol/

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/11364037/2

Go with the bear spray (but stick with "grizzly protection" to justify a handgun purchase)...., learn how to avoid confrontations in bear country and what do if you see one - most is common sense. Most bears want to avoid you. In a full up charge, you'd have much better luck hitting one with spray (think fire extinguisher type pattern) vs putting a bullet in the brain or spine in all the ruckus.
The studies/facts are there regarding bear spray vs handgun, some researchers also believe those that choose the firearm are more likely to put themselves in a close encounter situation.

I'm a believer in bear spray but I don't put too much faith in those studies about it's effectiveness compared to guns. They assume you will always shoot the bear from 30 feet away. A lot of bear attack victims never see it coming. The bear is on top of them before they even knew it was there. It's probably too late for spray at that point, a revolver to the head would be better.

I've worried about pepper spray getting to the bear in high winds or in heavy rain too. I think bear spray is the best bet under ideal conditions, though.

If I'm not mistaken, Shoemaker had a close call very recently and stopped a bear with a handgun. And, believe it or not it was a 9mm (unless I am totally misremembering, which is totally possible).

Hot damn...I DID remember correctly. I hope I can remember this moment.


big bear with a 9mm

I actually didn't give my .357 Mag much thought until it was mentioned in this thread. It looks to be a decent option at a much smaller size weight than my 6" 629. Anything that fits in the hand will be a compromise on some level for brown bears, especially if it's being packed into the mountains where extra weight matters.

A .357 Mag loaded up with some hard cast 180s moving out at about 1200 fps would be some pretty potent medicine.

Maybe the spray is not such a bad idea as a first line of defense, but I'd make sure to get the best available...not something I am familiar with since most of my hunting takes place within 150 miles of DFW the last several years. I don't think I'd even consider foregoing the firearm, though. I have a sweet little 4-5/8" 3-screw Blackhawk in .41 Mag that I think I'd carry in bear country.

I now see the errors in my thinking, OP needs a shiny new revolver/hand cannon.

A S&W 629 44 mag would be the lightweight minimum acceptable option, but a 460 or 500 S&W Mag would be way better. The fireball muzzle blast should do the job!

I was at Cabela's the other day and Bear Spray was on sale/clearance.
I had the vision of staring down an angry Yogi and wondering why the spray was on sale!

M

Mean Green,
I have always paid attention to what my guides carried in Alaska and it varied widely from Glock 17 to a pump 12 ga to a .416 Rem. After the first time I encountered a brown bear in the woods, I bought a S&W 500. These beasts are incredibly intimidating when you bump into them. I wear the pistol in a shoulder holster over my outer layer when bow hunting. 500 grain bullet with a muzzle velocity of 1625. If you decide to buy one, make sure you get the 4” ported barrel. The 2” barrel is not tolerable to shoot...

Lou

Lou,

what are you thoughts about the longer barrels?

Longer barrels are great to shoot, just heavier and less maneuverable imo

You’re over thinking it

That could happen. You can get an extended barrel for your Glock that may remedy that. Or you could get a Desert Eagle. A Desert Eagle wont do that, and it's available in gold.

What is in place to keep elk, moose, or any other western big game hunters from going into the woods with an elk tag with intentions to kill a bear and claim it charged them? This is a serious question and I’m wondering if people do that.

That was a problem in the 1970 and 80s. They started investigating grizzly shootings just like homicides. They expected to find power burns on the bear before they accepted self defense as an excuse. I think that's too high of a bar and I don't know if they still do that. I don't think you get to kept the carcuss if you kill a bear in self defense either.

Grizzlies are not listed as endangered anymore so some of that may have changed. I don't think they confiscate the carcass of grizzlies shot in self defense in Alaska, they have never been endangered there.

They take that seriously on Kodiak Island. If you shoot a bear without a tag you can expect a full investigation and there had better be some bullet holes consistent with a charging bear.

Grizz, weight is definitely a concern but not critical. I’m starting to really like the S&W model 69 combat magnum. Looks like it can handle pretty much any 44mag load - something the Taurus tracker cannot do.

BIL you are probably right about me overthinking it.

Lou, is looove to get a 500. The next hike I’m doing is ~40 miles at elevation. Not sure I want to be carrying that much extra weight & bulk.

The 5 round capacity isn’t fantastic, but I have no intentions of shooting or hunting a bear with this gun. Bear spray will always be first line if defense in our group. Hand cannon is for a last resort.

I think this is a good idea, also a used 4 inch redhawk (not super) or 29 smith, would be good too

There is always a full investigation. They immediately check bullet entry holes, question the participants, take them to the scene, review the scene again, the whole 9 yards. It’s serious business to kill a grizzly. I’m not saying it never happens, but I doubt it happens much (if at all) these days.

Finally, they don’t let you keep the bear anyway in the vast majority of (if not all) jurisdictions so there’s no incentive to do it.

Once the media gets a hold of the story, the public outcry [censored] that follows would make things even worse!

Yes I’m pretty sure that every grizzly killing gets at least local/regional coverage by the media. I know they do in Montana.

I carry spray and a 44mag revolver in a chest rig. You need to be comfortable with how your choice is carried because you are going to need it quick if things go south. Bears appear out of nowhere in my experience. If you are near PM me and you can shoot my different bear guns before you buy one.

i dont think you are allowed to keep the animal either in some states... And if you get caught with it field dressed in your car you cant claim self defense. you have to notify the game warden when it happened then the investigation will take place. Then the game warden will decide what to do with the animal

They make the 460 & 500 in a 2.5 inch barrel, that would be ideal.

I would definitely get a 500 with a 2.5" barrel.

This may be the perfect solution. If the first shot doesn't neutralize the bear, the muzzle blast would render you unconscious so you wouldn't feel the mauling anyway.

Ok, received a PM asking if I was really recommending a 500 to carry?

No, if the OP just wants one, then I fully support that by all means, thought was obvious, but apparently not. Just a guess BigPig and others really are not recommending a 2.5” version either.

To be clear, I still believe his G20 will work fine or better than the big boomer because he is used to it and will make more shots, more accurately under pressure. And a couple of cans of spray would be good too. Hopefully, that clears things up.

But any one who just wants to buy and try something, I support.

I find the recoil easier to handle in the shorter barrel lengths for all the big guns I’ve shot. In a lighter cartridge such as .357 the longer barrel and its weight offsets the recoil. When it comes to bigger cases and bullets I find the opposite to be true. The super Redhawk Alaskan in 454 with its 2 1/2” barrel is a pussycat to shoot compared to a 7 1/2” 44 mag. Yes you lose velocity and energy with the short barrel but these guns are designed specifically as bear guns.

Also staying on target is important. That’s not an issue in bear county with any pistol no matter the recoil. You don’t have to stay on target. By the time you should shoot the target is on you. Another bonus for the 2.5” barrel. You’d have a hard time getting a long barrel pulled and turned around to make the kill if theirs body contact already. These are get off of me guns. And they work.

Here's an article from Petersen's Hunting on the subject.

http://www.petersenshunting.com/gear-accessories/which-firearm-is-best-for-bear-defense/

I, too, think the obvious choice is to simply buy a 10 round magazine for the existing G20. That said, this may help you get in touch with your inner Wile E. Coyote:

This would be my choice, spray and my 10mm.

idiots

Too much of y’all are the voice of reason in here.

Probably going to order a one or two 10rounders and keep carrying that for the time being.

Very very interesting article, actual details incidents with interviews

https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/defense.../#axzz5OSnIZp8l

We can't have that.
Thats a 10mm (250 grains total) loaded in a 44 mag. 10mm is great and all but...

That's a good point about shutting down the CNS. I've read the journal's of Lewis and Clark. Their logs that they wrote daily. They encountered a lot of grizzly bears. They carried .69 caliber muskets. I don't know the ballistics but might be similar to a 12 slug. One of the bears took 10 shots to kill, and they said the only way they could stop a charging bear, was a head shot. I think, I would prefer to carry a rifle, than a handgun. If I had to hit him in the head, a rifle would be a better choice than a handgun. A lever action 454 casull would a good choice. I don't think I would feel safe with just bear spray.