Shotgun for Home Defense

Hello all,

I am considering a shotgun for HD purposes. I'm kind of short (5'6"), so my top choice is a Remington 870 youth 20 or 12 gauge. Do you have any other recommendations? Thanks!

i think you are one the right track

Unless you shoot a pump regularly, under extreme stress you might do ok, or you might not.

And forget about the stupid racking the slide to make sound argument, it's good for a movie effect but a terrible tactic.

Stick with a reliable semi-auto with a 20" or 22" barrel, cut to fit you.

Winchester Super-X of any vintage. Add a magazine extension and have the stock cut to fit.

Winchester made a National Wild Turkey Foundation model with a shorter barrel that is really well suited for this role.

Benelli of your choice is another option if a mag extension is available.

good advise, might look at pistol grip models.

IMO, pistol grips are terrible for anything except looking cool. Hard to control, and even harder for follow up shots.

And JEFFBIRD is right about racking the slide ...... that's a very good way to get shot by the bad guy. I prefer to shoot first, then rack the slide.

I of course have never been in a situation to have to decide but I would never rack a pump to scare people. In my mind it would give an intruder something to shoot at.

My turkey gun doubles as my HD shotgun. It's a Weatherby SA-459 Turkey 20 gauge with a Burris FastFire III.

HIPOINT 9mm Carbine

I would recommend a 9mm Carbine before a shotgun for serval reasons:

1. It uses a round designed primarily for self defense. This is important because if you ever have to use the gun you will not have lawyer issues.
2. The recoil is consistent between round choices
3. You will have less chance of the round leaving your house
4. The gun uses a clip
5. Semi Autos require less muscle memory
6. Carbines are much easier to aim than a pistol
7. You can mount flashlights easily with out defeating the purpose of the gun


There will be a lot of push back on this. I paid for a lawyers opinion on this topic because I have had lots of people ask me this question and also because I thought it maybe a good business to be in (business of selling legal defense insurance in the case a gun needed to be used). This lawyers opinion was basically in a nut shell it is easier to defend a gun or load that is made for primarily for home defense than it is to defend a gun or load that has a different use such as hunting, competition shooting...

The problem with a shot gun for home defense is that it is so good at just about any thing a real good DA can turn your shotgun into a urban assault weapon for a jury. You start adding anything tactical on it and there you go, you are now in possession of a weapon of mass confusion for people who do not understand guns.

If you are a hunter and you use a shotgun for defense the easy answer is yes this my duck gun and I heard a noise.

But if you only have a gun for self dense buy a gun that is only for self defense.

Here's a vote for the pump shotgun, I would not trust an autoloader after having to work on so many of them for various reasons.

That's a bunch of crap. Find me ONE case heard in a Texas court where a man was convicted of a crime for using any weapon in self defense over another weapon. It won't be there. Your lawyer wanted to give you something that sounded good so he would get paid.

^^^ Hit the nail on the head, there.

YEP. Total BS. I know there are a lot of people around who don't care for Massad Ayoob for various reasons, but he wrote a book many years ago titled "In The Gravest Extreme". I would consider it mandatory reading for anyone who arms themselves either in their home or on the street. He goes into detail what to say, when to say it, and what to do if you ever have to use your firearm in self defense. And he definitely has the credentials to give the advice. If you can find a copy I'd strongly recommend it for any gun owner.

Back to the OP. A rem870 is a great choice. I would probably try to find an older one as It seems the older ones are a little smoother. Keep one in the chamber ready to go. I used to keep mine unloaded with 3 in the tube, until I thought I needed it one night, and forgot to rack the slide.

#6 was true the rest of those points are suspect

Have you actually done anything in your life or do you just rely on what others have said or written?

And you do what?

I'm a caterer. Find the legal precedent to support what he's saying. Or better yet, pay the lawyer to. There is zero legal precedent in Texas to support that opinion.

There are all kinds of shotguns designed and marketed as home defense shotguns and plenty of shotgun ammo designed for self defense. Shooting someone with a home defense shotgun is no different in the legal system than shooting them with any other gun.
As far as the OP, it's a matter of personal preference, but I like my Mossberg 590, primarily because I just like tang safeties.

I keep a youth 870 20ga by the bed.

Castillo v. United States •; 2000; 530 U.S. 120; 629

Wallace v. United States • Ð; 1896; 162 U.S. 466; 224

Article for Creedmore to read since well...

Nate,
what do you do for a living?

+1. I can't imagine using anything but a pump. Operation of it better be all muscle memory though.

Investor in a couple of Hunting Ranches, Investor in a Bullet Manufacture, Own an Insurance Company that sells Legal Counsel in case you use a gun to protect yourself, Investor in some Water Companies, Own a Telephone and a Paging Company and, Run a Charity that takes LEO, Fire Fighters and Military personal on hunts (about 600 hunts so far).

Not applicable even a little bit. That's discussing the use of a machine gun while commiting a crime. Not if being used for self defense. And it doesn't mentioned wether the person would be legally allowed to own such a weapon

JLD, this is an interesting video to consider: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrGrRIojnAs The guy makes some very good points about using a shottie in a home defense situation.

Also not even close to relevant. I didn't ask for a case where a man was convicted for defending himself, I asked for a case, where a man was convicted of a crime because he used one weapon instead of another. You claimed that using a hunting gun could somehow get you in more trouble than using a dedicated defensive weapon. It was, and still is not only a preposterous claim, but really bad advice.

JLD, any 870 pump is good for this application. Forget all the confusing crap as it will serve your needs. 20 or 12 ga matters not, both are more than effective for in home protection. Go with what you know and are comfortable with.

"4. The gun uses a clip."

Who makes a clip for loading Hi-point magazines?

That has absolutely nothing to do with the topic being discussed. Is that the best you can come up with?



Not that it's any of your business, but I've owned and sold 4 businesses (at a profit), was sales manager for a major manufacturing company, went to college on a baseball scholarship, lived in 6 different states, won awards for long range shooting, been reloading since 1972, and won the club title at my local skeet club. I've hunted from the coast of NC to the high country of AZ. I retired at age 47 because I was smart with my money and made good decisions. My father raised me to be a gentleman and to always do the right thing. I've led an active life with my share of failures and successes and was intelligent enough to learn from them. And I learned a long time ago that there are lots of people out there that like to act the part but aren't able to actually participate.

And FWIW, motivational speaker Charlie “Tremendous” Jones said ..... “You will be the same person in five years as you are today except for the people you meet and the books you read.” You have heard of him, right? So yeah, I do put a great deal of stock in the things that I read. You should try it sometime.



And yet just a week ago you didn't understand ballistic coefficients and the difference between a target bullet and a hunting bullet?

But I didn't know we were having a "measuring" contest. I thought this was a discussion about having a shotgun for home defense .........

While the urinating contest continues, let's go back to the original question: what do we use and/or recommend as a home defense shotgun? My choice is a the DP-12, a double barreled, pump action shotgun that holds 14 rounds. It's on a "bull pup" frame, and while a bit heavy, my 5 foot, 3 inch tall wife shoots it regularly and thinks it's a hoot to shoot. I sold a couple of my "home defense" shotties so I could buy this one. Street price hovers around 11-12 hundred bucks. Here's a video of some guys having a bit of fun with one of them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGFb_opqFdk

I'm easy to please, it seems to me that my good old 12ga Mossberg 500 with the extended magazine is sufficient to the task.

Every year, whether it needs it or not, I take it to the range and fire the shells that it holds. Then back home to clean it and use Renaissance wax on the outside, reload it - and back it goes to its old spot, hopefully not to be fired again until another year has gone by.

There are nicer shotguns, but I have used Mossberg 500's for close to 50 years without a single malfunction of any kind. I feel complete confidence that if called upon, it will go bang.

Confidence is a factor in self-defense. Whatever you have the most confidence in is good enough, after all you are defending yourself, not me, so whether I would feel confident in the same thing really does not apply.

LOL! THAT is one wicked little dude!!

That it is! And being an old slide action kind of guy, I thought I'd have trouble getting used to the action: one pump, two shots. But after just a few shots with it, I had no problems, nor have any of my other "old fart" shooting buddies that have been dragging around pump actions since they were just little fellers. You just "get it," once you've racked it and shot it few times, and then you can't get enough of it. Of course, there's always the argument that your years old muscle memory will kick in under high stress conditions, and there certainly is something to that argument. I've now put several hundred rounds through the Beast and am fairly confident that I've beaten the muscle memory into DP-12 shape! I really like this weapon; sure wish it had been with me on a few excursions I took into the jungles of SE Asia 50 years ago.

While I didn't purchase my shotgun with the intent on using it for self defense, I have no doubt that if the situation presented itself, my 28 inch barrel Mossberg 500 would do just fine with defending my family.

I'll play, Saiga 12 ga with a Phoenix kicklite stock. Stick mag or drum.
Besides home intrusion it's great for zombies and other undesirables.

Many articles have been written and many experts agree that using a shotgun for home defense is a good choice for many reasons. If you aren't very familiar with guns and don't practice regularly you stand a better chance of hitting a target when firing a gun that throws a pattern of multiple projectiles. This is especially true if you are operating under stressful conditions or if you are frightened. If over penetration is a concern then you can choose a load that reduces that risk (i.e.; heavy goose loads instead of buckshot). I'm only 5'8" and I have many 12 gauges and I shoot them regularly. I shoot everything from light dove loads to 3.5 #4 loads out of a double barrel. With proper technique and a good recoil pad you can handle a 12 gauge. If you're concerned about recoil then a 20 gauge will be fine in close quarters defensive situations. Do not try to use a pistol grip only shotgun unless you plan to practice with it a lot. Accuracy is necessary, even with a shotgun especially at short distances. Most people shoot more accurately when they shoulder and aim a gun. I've fired a pistol grip only shotgun and it did not lend itself to accuracy or ease of operation. My #1 choice, Mossberg 590 with an 18" barrel.

Good call. 20 ga is more than capable.

Buy a variety of loads to test, based on where/how you live. Set up some wood/drywall and other materials to get a feel for penetration (massive differences)and patterning at multiple distances. THEN buy your self defense loads. Be aware that many shotguns are known to fire if hit (dropped) sharply on the stock. Read up on it and test it before taking action.

I keep my own self defense weapons loaded and chambered - except my shotguns.

Marc

After owning a bunch and rotating different models in and out the HD role, I decided that a Saiga SBS works best for me today. It fits on the safe door nicely, short, and easy to operate. Just drop the lever and you're ready to start dumping shot.

Hummmmmm

If everything goes right in my life a HIGHPOINT will not be involved!


Short of eavesdropping on people in gun stores. That can be some solid entertainment!

Not one mention of the Ithaca Model 37. One of the smoothest actions since the model 12 Winchesters, mines within arm reach right now. Mines the standard 18.5 inch 5 shot but I'm fixing to get a Model 37 Defender with the 20 inch and 8 round capacity. It served us well during WWII, Korea and Vietnam. Should work fine around the house. I might add that it and the older Model 12 Winchesters are the only two I can cycle one handed.

Good point. My father was on a recon team during the Korean War and he carried a Model 37 that had been primitively shortened (read: hacksaw) and was carried strapped to his thigh. The team of 5 carried Mod 37s, bowie knives, and 1911s. It was interesting to see pics and hear him talk about the things they did.

THIS have 37 feather weight and model 12 stamped U.S on the side.

AR with a 40 round mag loaded with 45 grain vmax ammo.