Texas Hunting Forum

new can equals better accuracy?

Posted By: sneakyfletch

new can equals better accuracy? - 03/28/15 03:03 PM

Ok so my specwar 7.62 can finally came in.went out to the range yesterday and i dont know if it was a fluke but shot my best group at 900 yards to date previously it was 3inch 3shot group without the can.with the can i shot a 3 shot group that measured 1 inch.wind conditions matched previous group. would have taken pic but almost got stuck in the mud when i went out and painted the target. is this common for a can to tighten up groups also i was using my rem 700 308 20in barrel 178amax
Posted By: Cast

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/28/15 03:30 PM

The sparrow I added to my oldest 10/22 made it shoot better. It even shoots automatch now. I don't know why.
Posted By: BCJ

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/28/15 04:01 PM

It acts like a barrel weight and dampens the barrel harmonics
Posted By: sneakyfletch

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/28/15 04:45 PM

Bcj that makes sense did not think about that
Posted By: SingleShot85

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/28/15 05:12 PM

Originally Posted By: BCJ
It acts like a barrel weight and dampens the barrel harmonics


I prefer change to dampen, ^^^

BUT occassionally it sometimes will have the opposite effect although rare in my experience
Posted By: J.G.

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/28/15 11:49 PM

Originally Posted By: BCJ
It acts like a barrel weight and changes
harmonics


FIFY

Especially running mass produced ammo, it can make an improvement on a load that shot OK before. It can also make it start shooting very badly

When the suppressor changes harmonics it can make a rifle that shot well, shoot bad. My 7 Rem Mag was load developed with a brake. Put the suppressor on and it will negatively affect consistency as well as shift point of impact by a wide margin. Barrel contour and suppressor weight are major factors in both POI shift as well as change in barrel/ load consistency no-suppressor to with-suppressor.
Posted By: Nogalus Prairie

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/28/15 11:57 PM

Wow. Isn't the IBS record 1000 yard group something like 1.4 or 1.5 inches?
Posted By: J.G.

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/29/15 12:12 AM

Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Wow. Isn't the IBS record 1000 yard group something like 1.4 or 1.5 inches?


Heck, NP there's whole hundred yards between 900 and 1k!

And that record was prolly a five shot group, huge difference!
Posted By: BigPig

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/29/15 12:24 AM

worthless
Posted By: sneakyfletch

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/29/15 03:01 AM

How do you join ibs lol probally will not be able to repeat it again but who knows it felt good thought the can had a little magic in it or something.will go back in a couple of days and try it again and maybe ill change the title to new can equals poor accuracy who knows.maybe im the best in world and i dont even know it.
Posted By: ChadTRG42

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/29/15 03:41 AM

The suppressor can make groups worse or better. The can changes the barrel harmonics, and can improve or not improve the groups based on where the load is at in the accuracy node.

1" group at 900 yards. With a 20" 308. 178 A-max. Factory Rem 700. I'm not calling BS, but if that's the case, you need to sign that rifle and ammo up into qualifying for some shooting records. I'll put it to you this way. I will let you double your group size (to 2"), and I will pay you $500 if you can shoot a 2", 3 shot group at 900 yards in my presence with said rifle and ammo. And yes, I'm serious. If you take the challenge and don't make it, you owe me $100. 5:1 odds! I'll even double it for $1000 to $200, if you want.
Posted By: KRoyal

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/29/15 03:46 AM

Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
The suppressor can make groups worse or better. The can changes the barrel harmonics, and can improve or not improve the groups based on where the load is at in the accuracy node.

1" group at 900 yards. With a 20" 308. 178 A-max. Factory Rem 700. I'm not calling BS, but if that's the case, you need to sign that rifle and ammo up into qualifying for some shooting records. I'll put it to you this way. I will let you double your group size (to 2"), and I will pay you $500 if you can shoot a 2", 3 shot group at 900 yards in my presence with said rifle and ammo. And yes, I'm serious. If you take the challenge and don't make it, you owe me $100. 5:1 odds! I'll even double it for $1000 to $200, if you want.


popcorn
Posted By: BigPig

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/29/15 03:54 AM

Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
The suppressor can make groups worse or better. The can changes the barrel harmonics, and can improve or not improve the groups based on where the load is at in the accuracy node.

1" group at 900 yards. With a 20" 308. 178 A-max. Factory Rem 700. I'm not calling BS, but if that's the case, you need to sign that rifle and ammo up into qualifying for some shooting records. I'll put it to you this way. I will let you double your group size (to 2"), and I will pay you $500 if you can shoot a 2", 3 shot group at 900 yards in my presence with said rifle and ammo. And yes, I'm serious. If you take the challenge and don't make it, you owe me $100. 5:1 odds! I'll even double it for $1000 to $200, if you want.


worthless
Posted By: BigPig

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/29/15 03:57 AM

No such thing as too muddy. We hiked miles and miles through the stickiest and stankiest black mud man could find, carrying more gear ammo and a gun so heavy the snipers would be laughing at us, all so we could prove to 30 other men that we can't shoot under pressure. #THFhunterschallenge

If I had shot a 1" group @ 900 yards you bet your a$$ I would have swam across the ocean to take a pic of that group
Posted By: KRoyal

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/29/15 04:03 AM

Originally Posted By: BigPig
No such thing as too muddy. We hiked miles and miles through the stickiest and stankiest black mud man could find, carrying more gear ammo and a gun so heavy the snipers would be laughing at us, all so we could prove to 30 other men that we can't shoot under pressure. #THFhunterschallenge

If I had shot a 1" group @ 900 yards you bet your a$$ I would have swam across the ocean to take a pic of that group


Lol yep I remember this well..
Posted By: sneakyfletch

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/29/15 05:13 AM

Its called luck but seriously the gun is a shooter i wouldnt believe it unless i seen it either thats the whole reason behind this post it was not the norm. a good day is hitting the 1moa target 3 times in a row at that range.
Posted By: sneakyfletch

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/29/15 05:22 AM

Chad maybe you could do it to if i loaded some ammo for ya maybe your not reaching your full potential ha ha
Posted By: J.G.

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/29/15 12:57 PM

Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
The suppressor can make groups worse or better. The can changes the barrel harmonics, and can improve or not improve the groups based on where the load is at in the accuracy node.

1" group at 900 yards. With a 20" 308. 178 A-max. Factory Rem 700. I'm not calling BS, but if that's the case, you need to sign that rifle and ammo up into qualifying for some shooting records. I'll put it to you this way. I will let you double your group size (to 2"), and I will pay you $500 if you can shoot a 2", 3 shot group at 900 yards in my presence with said rifle and ammo. And yes, I'm serious. If you take the challenge and don't make it, you owe me $100. 5:1 odds! I'll even double it for $1000 to $200, if you want.


You can make it 800 yards and use my range.
Posted By: ChadTRG42

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/29/15 02:13 PM

Thanks!! But I would not call luck with a 1" group at 900 yards. That is not an accident.
Posted By: Bayharbor

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/30/15 01:11 AM

I would throw in another $500
Posted By: hdfireman

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/30/15 03:46 AM

You stated a good day was you nitto g the 1MOA target 3 times at that range. So you want us to believe that on your good days you can shoot 1 MOA groups at 900 yards and then screw on a suppressor and shoot 1/8 MOA groups?? As stated above they can help or hurt accuracy but 1 MOA to 1/8 MOA. No sir.
Posted By: sneakyfletch

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/30/15 04:17 AM

I know thats why i brought it up thats a huge difference.
.
Posted By: Texas Dan

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/30/15 12:25 PM

As with a reduction in recoil, perhaps the reduction in the sound of the shot simply helped you shoot better.
Posted By: redchevy

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/30/15 02:48 PM

Id chalk it up to a tall tale getting called popcorn
Posted By: Cast

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/30/15 03:09 PM

I forgot to mention that I was shooting single hole groups at 1000 yards with my suppressed 10/22.
Posted By: hdfireman

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/30/15 03:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Cast
I forgot to mention that I was shooting single hole groups at 1000 yards with my suppressed 10/22.

roflmao
Posted By: hermano W

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/30/15 03:37 PM

Strictly dealing with the question: can a can improve accuracy? I agree with what Texas Dan said: "As with a reduction in recoil, perhaps the reduction in the sound of the shot simply helped you shoot better." Sound may cause some level of flinching nearly as much as recoil does...
Posted By: J McCoy

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/30/15 03:37 PM

Posted By: killen

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/30/15 06:42 PM

hate to call bs but
Posted By: J.G.

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/30/15 06:48 PM



Testing the 7 Rem Mag pre-mulie hunt. 800 yard steel. Hit it so well the first, decided to see if I could again. Two is not a group but this is a picture of two at 800 yards. That is with a 180 gr Berger VLD out of a 7 Rem Mag at 3020 fps MV.

Maybe I should go back to a .308?
Posted By: KRoyal

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/30/15 06:57 PM

Originally Posted By: FiremanJG


Testing the 7 Rem Mag pre-mulie hunt. 800 yard steel. Hit it so well the first, decided to see if I could again. Two is not a group but this is a picture of two at 800 yards. That is with a 180 gr Berger VLD out of a 7 Rem Mag at 3020 fps MV.

Maybe I should go back to a .308?


I've been telling you for how long now Jason? Short barreled 308's is where its at my man. roflmao
Posted By: J.G.

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/30/15 06:59 PM

I guess so!

I've got a 24" .308 barrel not connected to an action, maybe I should chop it down?
Posted By: KRoyal

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/30/15 07:04 PM

Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
I guess so!

I've got a 24" .308 barrel not connected to an action, maybe I should chop it down?


Yea I'd say SBR that thing down to 10" and slap a suppressor on it and you got a 1" gun at 800 with factory ammo for sure.
Posted By: J.G.

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/30/15 07:15 PM

I've been doing so many things wrong bang
Posted By: Cleric

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/30/15 07:39 PM

I have been thinking about sbring a 300 win mag...
Posted By: Cast

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/30/15 08:36 PM

Now you got me thinking...

I've got a charger barrel, I could mount that on my 1000 yard 10/22 and stretch it out another 1000 yards I'll bet.
Posted By: BigPig

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/30/15 10:30 PM

Where the OP go? confused2 Back to the fishing forum to tell his stories about size

stir
Posted By: sneakyfletch

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/31/15 03:50 AM

Why you bs i spend my time shooting.most of the guys on here dont even have access shooting anywhere close to that range you know who you are.and for a factory 308 with minor stuff thats pretty good accomplishment.900 is a half way pointto which is where i shoot my 300 win mag to 1800 religiously.theres a few guys on here that took a rifle precision class out to 800 yards good for you im proud of you and i was proud of my 9 year daughter when she accomplished that when she was 8 yet your throwing your 2 cents in.its all good fun though call [censored] or whatever you want it was the first time i had used a can and the unthinkable happened so i thought i would share it.and i can do this all day the jealousy thing
Posted By: hdfireman

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/31/15 11:12 AM

Sorry man but won't convince me that you went from shooting consistent 1 MOA groups down to 1/8 MOA groups just by screwing a can on. Looks like others feel the same way.

I believe someone above has offered you $1000 to come out to their place and show them. If what you claim holds true that would surely shut me up and put a G in your pocket.
Posted By: sneakyfletch

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/31/15 01:30 PM

Your still not getting it the original post said i shot a 1 inch group not i shoot 1 inch groups.do you need me to explain the difference. You sir are not to bright.you want me to go bet money on proving something that i already said was luck from the get go.your status just changed to retard. Would you please tell us where you have acquired your education so we can save our kids from developing a learning disability such as the one you posses
Posted By: sneakyfletch

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/31/15 01:32 PM

Ill give ample time to read that since i know you are not the sharpest tool in the shed
Posted By: KRoyal

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/31/15 02:02 PM

Guess I'll take a crack at this monstrosity.

Originally Posted By: sneakyfletch
You're still not getting it, the original post said iI shot a 1 inch group not iI shoot 1 inch groups. Ddo you need me to explain the difference.? You sir are not to bright. Yyou want me to go bet money on proving something that iI already said was luck from the get go. Yyour status just changed to retard. Would you please tell us where you have acquired your education so we can save our kids from developing a learning disability such as the one you possespossess?


Lol, English wasn't your best subject was it? For you to be calling someone retarded and bashing their education, you might want to proof read your reply before hitting submit. up Just my 2cents
Posted By: hdfireman

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/31/15 02:13 PM

Don't believe I said you shoot 1" groups but then again I'm uneducated. What I said was you claim " A good day is hitting a 1 MOA target 3 times in a row at that range". Please correct me if I'm wrong but that's a little over 9" groups. I said I find it hard to believe that you went from normally shooting 1 MOA to screwing on a suppressor and magically shooting 1/8 MOA groups. Especially out of a 20" .308 but then again I am not real bright. clap
Posted By: ChadTRG42

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/31/15 02:19 PM

So when are we going shooting!?
Posted By: J.G.

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/31/15 02:27 PM

Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
So when are we going shooting!?


The targets are all freshly painted white. If there is a south wind, that equates to about 1 to 2 o'clock in relation to the shot. That'll hold up to 600 yards. But I'm not going to divulge what happens to the wind at 700 and 800.

Google world record thousand yard group. If this 1" group at 900 held up in the same pattern then we need Guiness to come out to the range to make the new record official.
Posted By: sneakyfletch

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/31/15 02:30 PM

Well i enjoy my time shooting not teaching.it would be like taking a young child fishing and having to bait there hook for them.i just dont have the patience like jgfireman had when he helped kroyal learn how to shoot a gun .
Posted By: KRoyal

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/31/15 02:31 PM

Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
So when are we going shooting!?


The targets are all freshly painted white. If there is a south wind, that equates to about 1 to 2 o'clock in relation to the shot. That'll hold up to 600 yards. But I'm not going to divulge what happens to the wind at 700 and 800.

Google world record thousand yard group. If this 1" group at 900 held up in the same pattern then we need Guiness to come out to the range to make the new record official.

Well from what he says being excited about hitting 800 yard steel is embarrassing and he can't take someone serious that paid for lessons to shoot...

Read to the bottom posts
Posted By: KRoyal

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/31/15 02:34 PM

Originally Posted By: sneakyfletch
Well i enjoy my time shooting not teaching.it would be like taking a young child fishing and having to bait there hook for them.i just dont have the patience like jgfireman had when he helped kroyal learn how to shoot a gun .


Lol Jason didn't teach me how to shoot a gun. He taught me the fundamentals of shooting long range. There is a difference. Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses. My strengths are running a pistol and carbine hard, fast, and accurately. Other people like slow and steady shooting long range. I had never shot long range before so yea he was teaching me. I'm not seeing the problem in this.
Posted By: J.G.

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/31/15 03:02 PM

Originally Posted By: sneakyfletch
Well i enjoy my time shooting not teaching.it would be like taking a young child fishing and having to bait there hook for them.i just dont have the patience like jgfireman had when he helped kroyal learn how to shoot a gun .


Surely you can see how all this looks far fetched. A group that small at 900 yards would be impressive by any standards. But doing it with a .308 Winchester in recent conditions of temps below 50F and some density altitudes lately -300', add to that the fact that most of the days of the last thirty have had winds from 5-30 mph. All of those factors wreak havoc on any cartridge, they are detrimental to a .308 Winchester.

And as you say you are comfortable with a 300 Win Mag to 1600 yards, but you made a post that directly pertains to barrel harmonics, most specifically the sine wave of the barrel that will usually be altered when adding a suppressor. All of this you should have a clear undetstanding of IF you are an 1/8 MOA 900 yard .308 shooter as well as an extreme range (beyond a thousand yard) shooter.

These are the reasons so many guys are throwing the bs
Posted By: sneakyfletch

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/31/15 03:14 PM

Im not mad at ya i just think its funny that everybody likes to jump on the band wagon and call bs.and yes it was probably an act of god but thats besides the point.never claimed i could ever repeat that group just thought i would share what i witnessed first hand because you guys are into shooting but boy i was wrong.i shoot because its peaceful and it prepares me for hunting season.its thing to go shooting with good people and friends but its another to be in the company of people who conjured up some mythical story of me being able to reproduce that group.people who challenge or want to arrange a bet do to the fact they think im bs are usually the one who have came nowhere close to a group like that and who have spent thousands upon thousands of dollars with nowhere near results or maybe they are not happy with themselves or maybe they were the fat kid who was picked on when they were young and they want payback in some shape or form and this is there outlet you know who you are but no hard feeling ha ha keep practicing and if you shoot enough you will eventually one day have the unthinkable happen
Posted By: TFF Caribou

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/31/15 03:29 PM

This whole uproar was because you asked if the suppressor could increase accuracy. Had you just said "funny thing, I just got a suppressor and I shattered my previous best group at 900 yards. Nobody would have given you a hard time. But by asking if the suppressor could greatly increase accuracy, you gave the initial impression that it could be repeatable. And then to throw out specific numbers without providing a picture looks even more suspect. Plus if you couldn't get out there to take a picture, we know you weren't able to measure the group.
Posted By: TFF Caribou

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/31/15 03:29 PM

Btw, I don't doubt that you shot your best group ever. Just stating why I think it got a little chippy.
Posted By: ChadTRG42

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/31/15 04:09 PM

Originally Posted By: sneakyfletch
Im not mad at ya i just think its funny that everybody likes to jump on the band wagon and call bs.and yes it was probably an act of god but thats besides the point.never claimed i could ever repeat that group just thought i would share what i witnessed first hand because you guys are into shooting but boy i was wrong.i shoot because its peaceful and it prepares me for hunting season.its thing to go shooting with good people and friends but its another to be in the company of people who conjured up some mythical story of me being able to reproduce that group.people who challenge or want to arrange a bet do to the fact they think im bs are usually the one who have came nowhere close to a group like that and who have spent thousands upon thousands of dollars with nowhere near results or maybe they are not happy with themselves or maybe they were the fat kid who was picked on when they were young and they want payback in some shape or form and this is there outlet you know who you are but no hard feeling ha ha keep practicing and if you shoot enough you will eventually one day have the unthinkable happen


I'm the one who called you out, so I'm assuming this post is geared towards me. I'm posting this in a friendly manner, so read it as such. If I were to shoot a 1" group at 900 yards, I would swim through the mud to go take a picture of the group, and to confirm it was a 1" group, which was not done. I shoot and reload for long range precision. I have shot some stupid small groups at a long ways off. I have been shooting long range, competing in tactical shooting matches and loading ammo for many years now. I was ranked #61 in the nation in the PRS in 2012 (see link: HERE ). I am a range officer in many high end matches, and see a lot of shooters. I think I know how to shoot and am qualified to understand groups and such. Shooting a 1" group at 900 yards is no accident. That's some good shooting. I'm not saying it didn't happen. I'm saying let's go to the range and see if you can replicate it again, or at least come close to it. Because if you shot it this good, you should be able to come close to replicating it again. That's all. Cancel the bet if you want, and let's go shoot. All I'm asking for is some range time to come close to your claim. I'll bring a 308 loaded with some 175's and shoot along side with you. I promise you this, I will be the first to eat crow on this topic. I would also like to get your description of what the 1" group looked like on the 900 yard steel.
Posted By: BigPig

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/31/15 06:44 PM

What we really want to know, are you using MIL/MIL or MOA/MOA or MIL/MOA?
Posted By: sneakyfletch

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 03/31/15 06:48 PM

Ok you made me feel better.im sorry if the feelings mutual.i could see how you guys would think that.as far as the picture is concerned this is how it went down started at 400y 3 shots 500y 3 shots all the way out to 900 At 900 i have a 24 x24 plate i used to help aid with judging the Wind ok once i saw my shot placement went over to the 1moa target 1st shot hit 2nd shot hit but could not see impact location waited until mirage cleared up then fired 3 shot once again hit, plate was swinging all i could see was a dark spot through scope jumped in truck and drove down to target and i thought to myself holy sh$! Thats awesome.on the way back i did not carry enough speed to make it over the muddy hill got stuck, got out of truck to lock the hubs after 10 mins of forward reverse forward reverse i luckily got unstuck.went back up to grab my stuff dope book and my phone with my ballistic app still open on top of my dope book which i did not bring down to the target wasnt about to get stuck again just wanted to get home and eat with the family.you know what the funny thing is that if i took a picture everybody would have been that plate was at 50 yards how do we know you get my point.there will always be someyone who will try to bring you down no matter what.chad i would shoot with you anyday but not just to prove anything but just to have a good time because this is why were all here doing this anyways.supposed to be drama free thats why i dont have facebook twitter i have shooting and hunting forums to steer away from that stuff.okay im done venting.
Posted By: sic'em

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 04/04/15 04:35 AM

I am not a long range shooter (although I would very much like to learn) and I have ZERO experience reloading, so I am not expert in the subject at hand. I do however know a thing or two about mathematics. Accuracy in the shooting world, as I have come to understand it, is essentially a study in statistics. A rifle that is a true "1 MOA rifle" will always put every bullet within a circular area whose diameter is 1 minute of angle, or approximately 1 inch at 100 yards, when the crosshair is placed at exactly the same location for each shot. The statistics comes in when analyzing how the rounds actually print on target. It is statistically possible that every round in a three round string prints on the edge of this theoretical circle, having a maximum distance of 1 inch between any two rounds. It is also statistically possible that each of the three rounds goes through exactly the same hole, essentially giving you a zero inch or zero MOA group.
We can take these statistical probabilities and apply them to any target distance. At 900 yards, every round fired from this "1 MOA rifle" will always print within a circle having a diameter of 1 minute of angle or approximately 9 inches. It is statistically possible that every round in a three round string will land on the edge of this theoretical circle, giving you a 9 inch group. It is also statistically possible that this very same rifle will place each of the three rounds at exactly the same location, giving a zero inch or zero MOA group. This certainly doesn't make it a perfect zero MOA rifle; it just means that a statistical possibility has come to fruition. So it is statistically possible, however unlikely, for a 1 MOA gun, or even a 3 MOA gun for that matter, to shoot a 1/8 inch group at 900 yards.
Obviously all of this assumes that environmental conditions and the skill of the shooter don't have any adverse effects on the flight of the bullet. Assuming that no gun is truly capable of consistently shooting 1/8 MOA, then any 1/8 MOA group will happen by the accident of a statistical improbability. It is quite possible, therefore, for any skilled shooter to produce such a group at any given time. As the OP stated, his rifle/suppressor/ammunition combo shot a ridiculous group one time. This seems to be an anomaly of statistics rather than evidence of a combination capable of nearly unheard of accuracy.
I am likely preaching to the choir, but I thought that perhaps somebody reading this thread may not have a working understanding of the interplay between rifle performance and statistics.
Posted By: sneakyfletch

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 04/04/15 07:07 PM

you sir are the most educated individual that has posted on this topic.finally someyone who understood my point.want to be friends?you are the coolest dude ever.thank you
Posted By: ChadTRG42

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 04/04/15 08:40 PM

Statistics are one thing. But you might want to look up "bullet dispersion". Meaning, a 1" group at 100 yards does not equal a 9" group at 900 yards. A 1" group at 100 yards would equal about 5" to 7" of dispersion at 900 yards, depending on the actual speed and time of flight of the 178 A-max. So, if the rifle shoots 1", your actual group with normal estimated dispersion would be 14" to 16" group (9" plus 5", and 9" plus 7").

So when can we go shooting! Monday good? I'll buy the range fee.
Posted By: sic'em

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 04/04/15 09:19 PM

I looked up "bullet dispersion" and I must say it was interesting reading. Thanks for the suggestion! It definitely highlighted the fact that there is a great deal I don't know about physics and how it can influence the trajectory of a spinning projectile traveling a great distance. I certainly would not dispute that a rifle which regularly shoots 1" at 100 yards does not directly and automatically translate to 9" groups at 900 yards. By using elementary conversions between linear and radial units, we can also say that a rifle that shoots 1 MOA groups at 100 yards will not by default shoot 1 MOA groups at 900 yards, or any other distance for that matter.

For ease of mathematics, lets assume that the groups of our hypothetical rifle expanded from 1" at 100 yards to 18" at 900 yards. That means that the groups have opened up or "dispersed" from 1 MOA to 2 MOA at this distance. All this means is that for any given string of fire, all rounds will (assuming no shooter error or change in atmospheric conditions, etc) impact somewhere within a circle of diameter 18". That somewhere could hypothetically be within a 1/8 MOA diameter circle. Dispersion doesn't make this group impossible, just statistically less likely. Statistical improbabilities happen every day. It seems that our friend just had the fortune of experiencing a statistical improbability resulting in him shooting an awesome group. Repeatable? Unlikely. I certainly couldn't have done it in the first place.
Posted By: J.G.

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 04/04/15 09:38 PM

All of this seems black and white on a screen or on paper.

Don't for get to factor in bullets not all weighing exactly the same, primer consistency, brass consistency, height of the powder column, varying neck tension, and a variance in powder weight. Optical clarity, parralax, rifle cant.

Nothing replaces time behind the rifle in varying environmental conditions.
Posted By: sic'em

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 04/04/15 10:13 PM

From my perspective, it doesn't appear black and white at all precisely because of the variables you mentioned and the host of others that contribute to making a precision shot. I've always been quite mystified by those who are capable of predictably and consistently placing rounds on target at great distance like I read about y'all doing regularly.

My assertion (and I believe sneakyfletch would agree) is that the group in question was not an example of surpassing skill (though anyone who can connect at 900 is skilled in my book) but rather an instance of blind luck which occurred during a routine shooting session which happened to be coupled with a recent equipment change. No need to attempt to verify the group; the same math that says it's hypothetically possible says the chances of repeating it are next to nothing.
Posted By: ChadTRG42

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 04/04/15 11:15 PM

sneaky, lets go shoot this week. I need to go to the gun range at least twice this week. I'm sure fireman will provide the 800 yard range we can shoot at. What day is good? No bets, just plain shooting. I'll bring some extra ammo to shoot, and play with.
Posted By: DStroud

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 04/05/15 02:02 AM

I saw this when originally posted but have not read back thru all the posts....did anyone ever get a picture of the new world record once the terrain dried. I would have rented a helicopter if I shot a 1 inch group at 900 yards. cheers
Posted By: J.G.

Re: new can equals better accuracy? - 04/05/15 03:49 AM

Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
sneaky, lets go shoot this week. I need to go to the gun range at least twice this week. I'm sure fireman will provide the 800 yard range we can shoot at. What day is good? No bets, just plain shooting. I'll bring some extra ammo to shoot, and play with.


Chad, you're always welcome. I'm teaching Monday, but ever other day this week, have at it. I will help spot 800 when the time comes.
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