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Legal, Illegal, or Too Close To Call? #9145830 11/29/24 04:01 PM
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Briscoe county (antler restrictions).

He’s gotten a pass the past two mornings. I think I know the answer, but wanted to see what y’all think. Looks like he’s the biggest on the property as of right now, and Sunday is my last day to hunt for the season. I watched him for an hour yesterday and there were times I was ready to pull the trigger and then I’d get another angle and second guess myself.

He’s definitely not missing any meals:
[Linked Image]


"Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom." - Ecclesiastes 9:10
Re: Legal, Illegal, or Too Close To Call? [Re: Sauerkraut] #9145831 11/29/24 04:02 PM
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Sorry for the quality of the photo. This was with my cell at about 30yds.

[Linked Image]

Last edited by Sauerkraut; 11/29/24 04:05 PM.

"Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom." - Ecclesiastes 9:10
Re: Legal, Illegal, or Too Close To Call? [Re: Sauerkraut] #9145835 11/29/24 04:10 PM
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My money's on legal.

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Last edited by steve_twice; 11/29/24 05:01 PM.
Re: Legal, Illegal, or Too Close To Call? [Re: Sauerkraut] #9145895 11/29/24 06:13 PM
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hate these restrictions. SO hard to field judge


SPACE FOR RENT


Re: Legal, Illegal, or Too Close To Call? [Re: Sauerkraut] #9145897 11/29/24 06:17 PM
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Shoot him Elizabeth!



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Re: Legal, Illegal, or Too Close To Call? [Re: Buzzsaw] #9145926 11/29/24 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Buzzsaw
hate these restrictions. SO hard to field judge


Agreed. I think it’s helped in this area, but I’ve had to pass on some really nice mature bucks that went vertical instead of wide. And the average ear width is 21”, but that varies quite a bit. I shot a 5.5 yr old that was outside the ears a few years ago. Turns out his ears were 18.5” wide and the spread was 19.5”. The biologist affirmed me and said he would have shot him too.


"Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom." - Ecclesiastes 9:10
Re: Legal, Illegal, or Too Close To Call? [Re: Sauerkraut] #9146064 11/30/24 02:01 AM
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I’m not used to AR or MD but I would say no


At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR
Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
Re: Legal, Illegal, or Too Close To Call? [Re: Sauerkraut] #9146072 11/30/24 02:19 AM
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Luckily, it was a moot point. Found one that was clearly legal this evening. up

Technically a 7-point, but really just a big 6-point. 23” spread:

[Linked Image]


"Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom." - Ecclesiastes 9:10
Re: Legal, Illegal, or Too Close To Call? [Re: Sauerkraut] #9146087 11/30/24 02:46 AM
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Nice buck. up Beautiful scenery. laugh


...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
Re: Legal, Illegal, or Too Close To Call? [Re: Creekrunner] #9146129 11/30/24 04:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Creekrunner
Nice buck. up Beautiful scenery. laugh


Thank you sir! And yes, I love it down in the Caprock. Blessed to have access to family properties in the area.


"Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom." - Ecclesiastes 9:10
Re: Legal, Illegal, or Too Close To Call? [Re: Sauerkraut] #9146445 11/30/24 11:54 PM
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I started to say no, but then I remembered Mule Deer Restrictions are OUTSIDE THE EARS where Whitetail Deer is INSIDE THE EARS. That said, I think this one would make it, but just barely.

Re: Legal, Illegal, or Too Close To Call? [Re: Sauerkraut] #9146873 12/01/24 10:31 PM
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Nice buck for sure, likely a shooter. up

Re: Legal, Illegal, or Too Close To Call? [Re: Sauerkraut] #9146903 12/01/24 11:37 PM
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He is Marginal. If you dont like the antler restrictions, why do you hunt here? Before we had restrictions in place you would be VERY lucky to see a deer like that because on last sunday every pickup leaving out of this country had a fork horn in the back! I like big deer and the antler restrictions are only a positive…..PERIOD.

Last edited by TexasUplander; 12/01/24 11:40 PM.
Re: Legal, Illegal, or Too Close To Call? [Re: TexasUplander] #9147183 12/02/24 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by TexasUplander
He is Marginal. If you dont like the antler restrictions, why do you hunt here? Before we had restrictions in place you would be VERY lucky to see a deer like that because on last sunday every pickup leaving out of this country had a fork horn in the back! I like big deer and the antler restrictions are only a positive…..PERIOD.


I do like them. To quote myself, “I think it’s helped in this area”. I was lamenting that it’s hard to judge in the field and some one-off, mature bucks will never be legal because of their antler growth. Don’t be so testy.


"Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom." - Ecclesiastes 9:10
Re: Legal, Illegal, or Too Close To Call? [Re: Sauerkraut] #9147186 12/02/24 01:32 PM
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The dead deer is 23 inches wide?


It's hell eatin em live
Re: Legal, Illegal, or Too Close To Call? [Re: Sauerkraut] #9147314 12/02/24 04:42 PM
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Keep in mind AR guidelines are based on the distance between the outside edges of the ears when in the alert or more vertical position. A rack that appears 13 inches when the ears are relaxed is most likely around 16 or 3 inches greater in width.

Last edited by Texas Dan; 12/02/24 04:44 PM.

"When the debate is lost, insults become the tool of the loser."
Re: Legal, Illegal, or Too Close To Call? [Re: Sauerkraut] #9147320 12/02/24 04:55 PM
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Nice 3x3 !!

Re: Legal, Illegal, or Too Close To Call? [Re: Sauerkraut] #9147348 12/02/24 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Sauerkraut
Originally Posted by TexasUplander
He is Marginal. If you dont like the antler restrictions, why do you hunt here? Before we had restrictions in place you would be VERY lucky to see a deer like that because on last sunday every pickup leaving out of this country had a fork horn in the back! I like big deer and the antler restrictions are only a positive…..PERIOD.


I do like them. To quote myself, “I think it’s helped in this area”. I was lamenting that it’s hard to judge in the field and some one-off, mature bucks will never be legal because of their antler growth. Don’t be so testy.

Petition the state and your biologist to fix this issue. No reason case by case tags couldnt be issued for those type situations with a strict “no leniency” policy on “mistakes”. If you shoot a different deer than the one you petitioned a tag for, you forfeit the deer and next years hunting privileges. Sounds very doable and fair to me. Id also personally like to see mandatory checks on mule deer. A guy hunting a lease behind some of my property shot a buck that i was very skeptical as to being legal. I stopped him to ask about the deer and He told me it was 22”.
Is that Quitaque in the background pic of the deer you killed?

Re: Legal, Illegal, or Too Close To Call? [Re: TexasUplander] #9147352 12/02/24 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by TexasUplander
Originally Posted by Sauerkraut
Originally Posted by TexasUplander
He is Marginal. If you dont like the antler restrictions, why do you hunt here? Before we had restrictions in place you would be VERY lucky to see a deer like that because on last sunday every pickup leaving out of this country had a fork horn in the back! I like big deer and the antler restrictions are only a positive…..PERIOD.


I do like them. To quote myself, “I think it’s helped in this area”. I was lamenting that it’s hard to judge in the field and some one-off, mature bucks will never be legal because of their antler growth. Don’t be so testy.

Petition the state and your biologist to fix this issue. No reason case by case tags couldnt be issued for those type situations with a strict “no leniency” policy on “mistakes”. If you shoot a different deer than the one you petitioned a tag for, you forfeit the deer and next years hunting privileges. Sounds very doable and fair to me. Id also personally like to see mandatory checks on mule deer. A guy hunting a lease behind some of my property shot a buck that i was very skeptical as to being legal. I stopped him to ask about the deer and He told me it was 22”.
Is that Quitaque in the background pic of the deer you killed?


This would be great, but TPWD is already resource-restricted. There are ~10,000 mule deer harvested each year. If a quarter of them require a petition, who's going to review 2500 petitions (probably a lot more, because some won't get their deer)? I agree that it's fair, but it's not doable at all. And then they have to monitor the harvest, and I don't think they have a way to turn on/off who gets hunting privileges and who doesn't from year-to-year. The logistics of your ideas would be really tough for TPWD to manage.


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https://web.archive.org/web/20170223065011/http:/www.rrdvegas.com/silencer-cleaning.html
Re: Legal, Illegal, or Too Close To Call? [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #9147358 12/02/24 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by QuitShootinYoungBucks
Originally Posted by TexasUplander
Originally Posted by Sauerkraut
Originally Posted by TexasUplander
He is Marginal. If you dont like the antler restrictions, why do you hunt here? Before we had restrictions in place you would be VERY lucky to see a deer like that because on last sunday every pickup leaving out of this country had a fork horn in the back! I like big deer and the antler restrictions are only a positive…..PERIOD.


I do like them. To quote myself, “I think it’s helped in this area”. I was lamenting that it’s hard to judge in the field and some one-off, mature bucks will never be legal because of their antler growth. Don’t be so testy.

Petition the state and your biologist to fix this issue. No reason case by case tags couldnt be issued for those type situations with a strict “no leniency” policy on “mistakes”. If you shoot a different deer than the one you petitioned a tag for, you forfeit the deer and next years hunting privileges. Sounds very doable and fair to me. Id also personally like to see mandatory checks on mule deer. A guy hunting a lease behind some of my property shot a buck that i was very skeptical as to being legal. I stopped him to ask about the deer and He told me it was 22”.
Is that Quitaque in the background pic of the deer you killed?


This would be great, but TPWD is already resource-restricted. There are ~10,000 mule deer harvested each year. If a quarter of them require a petition, who's going to review 2500 petitions (probably a lot more, because some won't get their deer)? I agree that it's fair, but it's not doable at all. And then they have to monitor the harvest, and I don't think they have a way to turn on/off who gets hunting privileges and who doesn't from year-to-year. The logistics of your ideas would be really tough for TPWD to manage.

Every region has a team of biologists. Its not like one person would be responsible for it. Id assemble a panel of QUALIFIED volunteers. The initial requests have to pass through this panel and only those in 100% agreement move on to the biologist for final review and tag issuance. If a panel member knows the hunter submitting the request, they must recuse themselves and be replaced by a backup for that particular animal. It would work equally well for WT.

Last edited by TexasUplander; 12/02/24 06:56 PM.
Re: Legal, Illegal, or Too Close To Call? [Re: Sauerkraut] #9147405 12/02/24 08:57 PM
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Remember the law in an AR county is the antlers have to have an inside spread of ay least 13".

They say the antlers should be outside of the ears only as a rule of thumb or guideline for the 13" inside spread.
If you have a big fully mature buck with big ears, it might very well be legal even though the antlers did not go outside the ears.


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Re: Legal, Illegal, or Too Close To Call? [Re: Stub] #9147406 12/02/24 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Stub
Remember the law in an AR county is the antlers have to have an inside spread of ay least 13".

They say the antlers should be outside of the ears only as a rule of thumb or guideline for the 13" inside spread.
If you have a big fully mature buck with big ears, it might very well be legal even though the antlers did not go outside the ears.

I believe mule deer regs are different. The deer in the topic are not whitetails.


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Re: Legal, Illegal, or Too Close To Call? [Re: redchevy] #9147421 12/02/24 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by redchevy
Originally Posted by Stub
Remember the law in an AR county is the antlers have to have an inside spread of ay least 13".

They say the antlers should be outside of the ears only as a rule of thumb or guideline for the 13" inside spread.
If you have a big fully mature buck with big ears, it might very well be legal even though the antlers did not go outside the ears.

I believe mule deer regs are different. The deer in the topic are not whitetails.


True and I should have mentioned that, thanks for the clarification.


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Re: Legal, Illegal, or Too Close To Call? [Re: TexasUplander] #9147423 12/02/24 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by TexasUplander
Originally Posted by Sauerkraut
Originally Posted by TexasUplander
He is Marginal. If you dont like the antler restrictions, why do you hunt here? Before we had restrictions in place you would be VERY lucky to see a deer like that because on last sunday every pickup leaving out of this country had a fork horn in the back! I like big deer and the antler restrictions are only a positive…..PERIOD.


I do like them. To quote myself, “I think it’s helped in this area”. I was lamenting that it’s hard to judge in the field and some one-off, mature bucks will never be legal because of their antler growth. Don’t be so testy.

Petition the state and your biologist to fix this issue. No reason case by case tags couldnt be issued for those type situations with a strict “no leniency” policy on “mistakes”. If you shoot a different deer than the one you petitioned a tag for, you forfeit the deer and next years hunting privileges. Sounds very doable and fair to me. Id also personally like to see mandatory checks on mule deer. A guy hunting a lease behind some of my property shot a buck that i was very skeptical as to being legal. I stopped him to ask about the deer and He told me it was 22”.
Is that Quitaque in the background pic of the deer you killed?

“case by case”… Your saying it’s “doable” for an individual hunter to request an individual deer to be made an exception and then monitor to insure it happens? It’s good to think outside the box but then you have to squeeze those thoughts back into the real world.
Doable, yes, doing it, no.


At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR
Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
Re: Legal, Illegal, or Too Close To Call? [Re: freerange] #9147429 12/02/24 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by freerange
Originally Posted by TexasUplander
Originally Posted by Sauerkraut
Originally Posted by TexasUplander
He is Marginal. If you dont like the antler restrictions, why do you hunt here? Before we had restrictions in place you would be VERY lucky to see a deer like that because on last sunday every pickup leaving out of this country had a fork horn in the back! I like big deer and the antler restrictions are only a positive…..PERIOD.


I do like them. To quote myself, “I think it’s helped in this area”. I was lamenting that it’s hard to judge in the field and some one-off, mature bucks will never be legal because of their antler growth. Don’t be so testy.

Petition the state and your biologist to fix this issue. No reason case by case tags couldnt be issued for those type situations with a strict “no leniency” policy on “mistakes”. If you shoot a different deer than the one you petitioned a tag for, you forfeit the deer and next years hunting privileges. Sounds very doable and fair to me. Id also personally like to see mandatory checks on mule deer. A guy hunting a lease behind some of my property shot a buck that i was very skeptical as to being legal. I stopped him to ask about the deer and He told me it was 22”.
Is that Quitaque in the background pic of the deer you killed?

“case by case”… Your saying it’s “doable” for an individual hunter to request an individual deer to be made an exception and then monitor to insure it happens? It’s good to think outside the box but then you have to squeeze those thoughts back into the real world.
Doable, yes, doing it, no.

Time will tell i guess. It will take people who believe its possible to make it happen. The “real world” “this is how its always been so this is how it will be” thinkers will just have to stay out of the way.

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