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Leupold Mark 4 M1 Zero Stop #9073230 07/08/24 06:05 PM
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Hoytbowhunter Offline OP
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Leupold Mark 4 M1 Zero Stop by Shawn Peters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gee0de9df14

Dose anyone know if this guy still around making these at one time they were not that expensive.

[Linked Image]

Last edited by Hoytbowhunter; 07/08/24 06:07 PM.
Re: Leupold Mark 4 M1 Zero Stop [Re: Hoytbowhunter] #9073595 07/09/24 01:33 PM
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I saw them on Midway for $550 the other day. I would have considered it had it been Mil adjustments and Mil reticle. I think mixing MOA and Mil is ridiculous.


https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1362217984?pid=936654



Re: Leupold Mark 4 M1 Zero Stop [Re: scottfromdallas] #9073610 07/09/24 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by scottfromdallas
I think mixing MOA and Mil is ridiculous.


Engineers are often good at screwing things up.

That's one of the dumbest things ever produced.


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Re: Leupold Mark 4 M1 Zero Stop [Re: J.G.] #9073649 07/09/24 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by J.G.
Originally Posted by scottfromdallas
I think mixing MOA and Mil is ridiculous.


Engineers are often good at screwing things up.

That's one of the dumbest things ever produced.

Engineers don't typically decide on what products to take to market, that would be sales and marketing. Leupold is in the business of selling millions of scopes. Sales and marketing saw an opportunity to sell scopes to people that want to zero in MOA, and hold in mils, told engineering to design it, and now it's 1/2 price. So maybe not a great marketing decision, but not a bad engineering decision. At this price, hunters should buy it for the glass. I would but don't need a scope.


An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
Re: Leupold Mark 4 M1 Zero Stop [Re: onlysmith&wesson] #9073695 07/09/24 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by onlysmith&wesson
Originally Posted by J.G.
Originally Posted by scottfromdallas
I think mixing MOA and Mil is ridiculous.


Engineers are often good at screwing things up.

That's one of the dumbest things ever produced.

Engineers don't typically decide on what products to take to market, that would be sales and marketing. Leupold is in the business of selling millions of scopes. Sales and marketing saw an opportunity to sell scopes to people that want to zero in MOA, and hold in mils, told engineering to design it, and now it's 1/2 price. So maybe not a great marketing decision, but not a bad engineering decision. At this price, hunters should buy it for the glass. I would but don't need a scope.


What engineering can say to product though is "your requirements are jacked and a mil/moa crossover is dumb"...and it is. Mixing the two is one of the most embarrassing scope fubars of this century. Could someone use it? Sure...but once they figure out and are educated on what they bought...they regret it.

We don't have to agree on MIL/MOA to agree that mixing is stupid. It's like having a tape measure that for the first section measures in inches and the second section measures in centimeters and alternates down the whole thing...bottom line, it's worthless to anyone who knows what they are doing but could be used by someone who is ignorant that you don't have to mix them.


Originally Posted by Phil Robertson
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
Re: Leupold Mark 4 M1 Zero Stop [Re: Judd] #9073733 07/09/24 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Judd
Originally Posted by onlysmith&wesson
Originally Posted by J.G.
Originally Posted by scottfromdallas
I think mixing MOA and Mil is ridiculous.


Engineers are often good at screwing things up.

That's one of the dumbest things ever produced.

Engineers don't typically decide on what products to take to market, that would be sales and marketing. Leupold is in the business of selling millions of scopes. Sales and marketing saw an opportunity to sell scopes to people that want to zero in MOA, and hold in mils, told engineering to design it, and now it's 1/2 price. So maybe not a great marketing decision, but not a bad engineering decision. At this price, hunters should buy it for the glass. I would but don't need a scope.


What engineering can say to product though is "your requirements are jacked and a mil/moa crossover is dumb"...and it is. Mixing the two is one of the most embarrassing scope fubars of this century. Could someone use it? Sure...but once they figure out and are educated on what they bought...they regret it.

We don't have to agree on MIL/MOA to agree that mixing is stupid. It's like having a tape measure that for the first section measures in inches and the second section measures in centimeters and alternates down the whole thing...bottom line, it's worthless to anyone who knows what they are doing but could be used by someone who is ignorant that you don't have to mix them.

I've been on many new product development teams. I've heard engineers make recommendations. In the end, engineers don't make decisions on what will be produced and sold. For this scope, I doubt an engineer was involved at all. Maybe an engineer added the reticle to the assembly drawing which was likely a legacy component, a planner added it to the BOM, production gets the WO, scopes start getting put together. I don't agree with the concept, but no point blaming engineering for a sales and marketing decision.


An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
Re: Leupold Mark 4 M1 Zero Stop [Re: Hoytbowhunter] #9073771 07/09/24 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by onlysmith&wesson
Originally Posted by Judd
Originally Posted by onlysmith&wesson
Originally Posted by J.G.

Engineers are often good at screwing things up.

That's one of the dumbest things ever produced.

Engineers don't typically decide on what products to take to market, that would be sales and marketing. Leupold is in the business of selling millions of scopes. Sales and marketing saw an opportunity to sell scopes to people that want to zero in MOA, and hold in mils, told engineering to design it, and now it's 1/2 price. So maybe not a great marketing decision, but not a bad engineering decision. At this price, hunters should buy it for the glass. I would but don't need a scope.


What engineering can say to product though is "your requirements are jacked and a mil/moa crossover is dumb"...and it is. Mixing the two is one of the most embarrassing scope fubars of this century. Could someone use it? Sure...but once they figure out and are educated on what they bought...they regret it.

We don't have to agree on MIL/MOA to agree that mixing is stupid. It's like having a tape measure that for the first section measures in inches and the second section measures in centimeters and alternates down the whole thing...bottom line, it's worthless to anyone who knows what they are doing but could be used by someone who is ignorant that you don't have to mix them.

I've been on many new product development teams. I've heard engineers make recommendations. In the end, engineers don't make decisions on what will be produced and sold. For this scope, I doubt an engineer was involved at all. Maybe an engineer added the reticle to the assembly drawing which was likely a legacy component, a planner added it to the BOM, production gets the WO, scopes start getting put together. I don't agree with the concept, but no point blaming engineering for a sales and marketing decision.


I too have been involved in many design sessions...my experience is everyone has a seat at the table to make a case for design/execution. My apologies...I didn't realize you had Leupy inside information to realize that's what happened. Please let them know, that Judd said they should fire the entire team that allowed this to happen. I'm sure folks like you, JG and I would consult with them for a fair price wink


Originally Posted by Phil Robertson
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
Re: Leupold Mark 4 M1 Zero Stop [Re: Hoytbowhunter] #9073782 07/09/24 07:50 PM
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Leupold is doing just fine on their own and, I don’t need the work. Maybe you can consult for Vortex. I hear they need some continuous improvement to their RMA process.


An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
Re: Leupold Mark 4 M1 Zero Stop [Re: Hoytbowhunter] #9073794 07/09/24 08:36 PM
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Meanwhile, the NF employees are bored to tears, no returns and no improvements needed!

Re: Leupold Mark 4 M1 Zero Stop [Re: LonestarCobra] #9073809 07/09/24 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by onlysmith&wesson
Leupold is doing just fine on their own and, I don’t need the work. Maybe you can consult for Vortex. I hear they need some continuous improvement to their RMA process.


I think both them and Luepy have plenty of practice. I've not used it though so no first hand knowledge. NF's is good though, since you're interested.

Originally Posted by LonestarCobra
Meanwhile, the NF employees are bored to tears, no returns and no improvements needed!


They, like me, could afford to lose a little weight wink


Originally Posted by Phil Robertson
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
Re: Leupold Mark 4 M1 Zero Stop [Re: Judd] #9073819 07/09/24 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Judd
Originally Posted by onlysmith&wesson
Leupold is doing just fine on their own and, I don’t need the work. Maybe you can consult for Vortex. I hear they need some continuous improvement to their RMA process.


I think both them and Luepy have plenty of practice. I've not used it though so no first hand knowledge. NF's is good though, since you're interested.

Originally Posted by LonestarCobra
Meanwhile, the NF employees are bored to tears, no returns and no improvements needed!


They, like me, could afford to lose a little weight wink


We agree on one thing.


An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
Re: Leupold Mark 4 M1 Zero Stop [Re: LonestarCobra] #9073988 07/10/24 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by LonestarCobra
Meanwhile, the NF employees are bored to tears, no returns and no improvements needed!

cheers


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I am still looking for the perfect apron, one with reinforced knee areas would be perfect.

Re: Leupold Mark 4 M1 Zero Stop [Re: J.G.] #9074032 07/10/24 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by J.G.
Originally Posted by scottfromdallas
I think mixing MOA and Mil is ridiculous.


Engineers are often good at screwing things up.

That's one of the dumbest things ever produced.



HEY, i resemble this comment!!!
We do occasionally have good ideas too.


I'm a dude who likes long barrels!
Re: Leupold Mark 4 M1 Zero Stop [Re: Hoytbowhunter] #9074435 07/11/24 10:07 AM
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lol, I’m looking for a zero stop. for my MOA, the pic was just an example of the turrets this guy Shawn Peters had designed for the scope at one time and was selling them on the market. With a zero stop kit, not washers. That way you get the full revolution out of your turret.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Last edited by Hoytbowhunter; 07/11/24 11:57 AM.
Re: Leupold Mark 4 M1 Zero Stop [Re: Hoytbowhunter] #9074904 07/12/24 11:17 AM
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I did reach out to Leupold before I made this thread, they reach back out to me. said they have a Zero stop shim kit. I may try it only $10.

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