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Colorado Eliminates Over-the-Counter Archery Elk Tags for Nonresidents #9064173 06/19/24 08:02 PM
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To be determined
Re: Colorado Eliminates Over-the-Counter Archery Elk Tags for Nonresidents [Re: TurkeyHunter] #9064192 06/19/24 08:20 PM
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Blame them for what? those units will just go from OTC to 3rd choice and probably left overs. All it does is change the either sex tag and not allow NR to archery hunt in more than one unit or block.

What they will probably do next it is try to vote in a 95/5 rule on tag allocation. I usually donate money to hunting legislation causes. I donated zero to help fight the mountain lion ban. Not my problem


Bottom line, never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals.-Sen Joni Ernst
Re: Colorado Eliminates Over-the-Counter Archery Elk Tags for Nonresidents [Re: BOBO the Clown] #9064216 06/19/24 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Blame them for what? those units will just go from OTC to 3rd choice and probably left overs. All it does is change the either sex tag and not allow NR to archery hunt in more than one unit or block.

What they will probably do next it is try to vote in a 95/5 rule on tag allocation. I usually donate money to hunting legislation causes. I donated zero to help fight the mountain lion ban. Not my problem


In retrospect the word blame wasn't quite right. I changed the sentence.


To be determined
Re: Colorado Eliminates Over-the-Counter Archery Elk Tags for Nonresidents [Re: TurkeyHunter] #9064228 06/19/24 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by TurkeyHunter
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Blame them for what? those units will just go from OTC to 3rd choice and probably left overs. All it does is change the either sex tag and not allow NR to archery hunt in more than one unit or block.

What they will probably do next it is try to vote in a 95/5 rule on tag allocation. I usually donate money to hunting legislation causes. I donated zero to help fight the mountain lion ban. Not my problem


In retrospect the word blame wasn't quite right. I changed the sentence.


It’s bad move for NR optics/loyality,
good move to appease locals
net zero move for opportunity


Bottom line, never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals.-Sen Joni Ernst
Re: Colorado Eliminates Over-the-Counter Archery Elk Tags for Nonresidents [Re: TurkeyHunter] #9064282 06/19/24 10:27 PM
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Colorado has more elk than any place else in the world. It reflects directly on the interests of hunters across the nation and the whole world really, that made it popular and the competition with non residents for paid hunts is what made it a good source of income for the land owners. When land owners make good money off elk hunts, they are motivated to make a good home for the elk. But government is dumb, and makes decisions based on input of imbeciles with no clue how to manage game.

Last edited by 10 Gauge; 06/19/24 10:27 PM.

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Re: Colorado Eliminates Over-the-Counter Archery Elk Tags for Nonresidents [Re: TurkeyHunter] #9064287 06/19/24 10:39 PM
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I hunted Colorado for years when everything was OTC. I stopped going when they started the draw. I don’t support states with draws with my money. Hunting isn’t a lottery for me.

Re: Colorado Eliminates Over-the-Counter Archery Elk Tags for Nonresidents [Re: ntxtrapper] #9064311 06/19/24 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ntxtrapper
I hunted Colorado for years when everything was OTC. I stopped going when they started the draw. I don’t support states with draws with my money. Hunting isn’t a lottery for me.



While OTC sounds great, they had to do something. The OTC units have gotten so overcrowded it’s not an enjoyable experience anymore.

I’m not a big fan of the lopsided tag allocations on federally owned land however, and I’ve expressed that opinion many times on here.


The internet, social media and television has made these once unknown and hard to get to places not so secret or hard to get to anymore.

Same thing happened to the Arizona OTC January archery mule deer hunt. Someone went on it, got online and posted on a dozen forums about when, where and how, another guy goes and makes a YouTube video of it and 50k hunters see it.

Its hunters who couldn’t keep a good thing quiet that are largely responsible. Hell Randy Newberg did a how-to YouTube video on OTC elk hunting in Colorado. No wonder non-residents outnumber residents.


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Colorado Eliminates Over-the-Counter Archery Elk Tags for Nonresidents [Re: txtrophy85] #9064368 06/20/24 01:45 AM
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Originally Posted by txtrophy85
Originally Posted by ntxtrapper
I hunted Colorado for years when everything was OTC. I stopped going when they started the draw. I don’t support states with draws with my money. Hunting isn’t a lottery for me.



While OTC sounds great, they had to do something. The OTC units have gotten so overcrowded it’s not an enjoyable experience anymore.

I’m not a big fan of the lopsided tag allocations on federally owned land however, and I’ve expressed that opinion many times on here.


The internet, social media and television has made these once unknown and hard to get to places not so secret or hard to get to anymore.

Same thing happened to the Arizona OTC January archery mule deer hunt. Someone went on it, got online and posted on a dozen forums about when, where and how, another guy goes and makes a YouTube video of it and 50k hunters see it.

Its hunters who couldn’t keep a good thing quiet that are largely responsible. Hell Randy Newberg did a how-to YouTube video on OTC elk hunting in Colorado. No wonder non-residents outnumber residents.


This is the actual tag sale numbers, tell a different story.

All Elk tags 23 year low

All rifle tags 23 year low
OTC rifle @ 23 year low
OTC archery @ 15 year low
All archery @ 10 year low


Everyone wants to point fingers, fact is residents want NR allocation dropped to but a percentage point of tags allowed. The only way they can do that is to push for no OTC for non residents, then they can continue to lower pressure and lower the NR cap

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Bottom line, never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals.-Sen Joni Ernst
Re: Colorado Eliminates Over-the-Counter Archery Elk Tags for Nonresidents [Re: TurkeyHunter] #9064373 06/20/24 02:02 AM
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I can only speak from my anecdotal experience, that being the OTC units I hunt in have gotten more and more crowded every year.

Naturally some of this is a result of low draw odds, units going from OTC to draw funneling more guys into the OTC units, etc.

I feel the same way about limited entry units that only have a handful of tags available. I’m not 100% in support of limited entry units. Needing 15-20+points to draw a unit is ridiculous


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Colorado Eliminates Over-the-Counter Archery Elk Tags for Nonresidents [Re: txtrophy85] #9064376 06/20/24 02:12 AM
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Originally Posted by txtrophy85
I can only speak from my anecdotal experience, that being the OTC units I hunt in have gotten more and more crowded every year.

Naturally some of this is a result of low draw odds, units going from OTC to draw funneling more guys into the OTC units, etc.

I feel the same way about limited entry units that only have a handful of tags available. I’m not 100% in support of limited entry units. Needing 15-20+points to draw a unit is ridiculous


Those 25 + points units are that way because they are so mild in terrain the success rates are damn near 100%, they can’t allocate more tags out or they will eliminate the herds, where as say OTC archery unit 95% of people are not getting part 3 miles deep, because they can’t do 3k ft daily climbs,


Ultimately Res will get their way, because it behooves the anti’s to allow them too, illumination of NR legislative and conservation money is a big hit


Bottom line, never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals.-Sen Joni Ernst
Re: Colorado Eliminates Over-the-Counter Archery Elk Tags for Nonresidents [Re: TurkeyHunter] #9064558 06/20/24 02:04 PM
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It’s a known fact that Non-resident monies are a definite boost to the economy.

I had heard that all the money from the dispensaries were making up for the lost revenue from hunting, don’t know if that’s true or not.

What is true and indisputable is that the anti’s want to end hunting in Colorado and across the west altogether. There was a good podcast episode on bear grease about how it starts with bears and mountain lions and will trickle down big game ungulates.


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Colorado Eliminates Over-the-Counter Archery Elk Tags for Nonresidents [Re: txtrophy85] #9064560 06/20/24 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by txtrophy85
What is true and indisputable is that the anti’s want to end hunting in Colorado and across the west altogether. There was a good podcast episode on bear grease about how it starts with bears and mountain lions and will trickle down big game ungulates.


Yep


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Re: Colorado Eliminates Over-the-Counter Archery Elk Tags for Nonresidents [Re: ntxtrapper] #9064647 06/20/24 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ntxtrapper
I hunted Colorado for years when everything was OTC. I stopped going when they started the draw. I don’t support states with draws with my money. Hunting isn’t a lottery for me.

That pretty much eliminates the entire west for you then. Too many hunters to have OTC.

I wish every GMU in CO went to a draw. Colorado (and all other western state) residents fail to comprehend simple economics of NRs paying about 10x more per license and how that revenue funds the majority of the CPW wildlife budget.

Re: Colorado Eliminates Over-the-Counter Archery Elk Tags for Nonresidents [Re: txtrophy85] #9064651 06/20/24 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by txtrophy85

I had heard that all the money from the dispensaries were making up for the lost revenue from hunting, don’t know if that’s true or not.

False. Two completely separate entities. Most of the sales tax portion from dispensary tax revenue goes to local governments and the excise tax portion goes to Colorado public school construction. Sales from hunting licenses go to the CPW wildlife budget.

Re: Colorado Eliminates Over-the-Counter Archery Elk Tags for Nonresidents [Re: Gringo Bling] #9064691 06/20/24 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Gringo Bling
Originally Posted by txtrophy85

I had heard that all the money from the dispensaries were making up for the lost revenue from hunting, don’t know if that’s true or not.

False. Two completely separate entities. Most of the sales tax portion from dispensary tax revenue goes to local governments and the excise tax portion goes to Colorado public school construction. Sales from hunting licenses go to the CPW wildlife budget.


Maybe I should have clarified…it’s not being funneled into CPW. The revenue im referring to is money spent into the local economy. Not direct from license sales


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Colorado Eliminates Over-the-Counter Archery Elk Tags for Nonresidents [Re: Gringo Bling] #9064701 06/20/24 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Gringo Bling
Originally Posted by ntxtrapper
I hunted Colorado for years when everything was OTC. I stopped going when they started the draw. I don’t support states with draws with my money. Hunting isn’t a lottery for me.

That pretty much eliminates the entire west for you then. Too many hunters to have OTC.

I wish every GMU in CO went to a draw. Colorado (and all other western state) residents fail to comprehend simple economics of NRs paying about 10x more per license and how that revenue funds the majority of the CPW wildlife budget.


I try not to let my emotions ruin something I love so much, but every year I get further away from that goal. Most states residents do not care if they loose hunting in 15-20 years because A) they don’t care, they will be done then B) the can’t comprehend it’s not a constitutional right C) don’t understand the amount of money from outside their bubble that’s actually keeping their right to hunt a float. CO is loosing hunters at a huge rate, with residents being biggest loss. Days are numbered when your state constitution allows for ballot biology

I recommended on another forum that CO went 100% draw with only 2 choices, 70/30 split on draw and all choices require use of PP if drawn, no refunds and all Left over tags are redrawn @ NR costs regardless of residency status. Ya I was told to…




Just like NM wanted to do away with the 2 NR sheep tags and just do Res and OF. Then you find out NR have paid for 97% of the sheep relocation and conservation efforts in NM.


Bottom line, never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals.-Sen Joni Ernst
Re: Colorado Eliminates Over-the-Counter Archery Elk Tags for Nonresidents [Re: TurkeyHunter] #9064766 06/20/24 06:32 PM
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That would be interesting to watch the liberal areas of Colorado start hitting more ungulates on the road, having their flowers and gardens devoured, seeing sick and/or starving animals etc.


Sadly I think a lot of rural areas of Colorado get a bad rap from the liberal areas. I've found the rural people in Colorado to be very conservative.


To be determined
Re: Colorado Eliminates Over-the-Counter Archery Elk Tags for Nonresidents [Re: TurkeyHunter] #9064831 06/20/24 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by TurkeyHunter
That would be interesting to watch the liberal areas of Colorado start hitting more ungulates on the road, having their flowers and gardens devoured, seeing sick and/or starving animals etc.


Sadly I think a lot of rural areas of Colorado get a bad rap from the liberal areas. I've found the rural people in Colorado to be very conservative.


NM is same way. A couple counties control politics of state

Estes park is prime example


Idaho is next


Bottom line, never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals.-Sen Joni Ernst
Re: Colorado Eliminates Over-the-Counter Archery Elk Tags for Nonresidents [Re: Gringo Bling] #9064876 06/20/24 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Gringo Bling
Originally Posted by ntxtrapper
I hunted Colorado for years when everything was OTC. I stopped going when they started the draw. I don’t support states with draws with my money. Hunting isn’t a lottery for me.

That pretty much eliminates the entire west for you then. Too many hunters to have OTC.

I wish every GMU in CO went to a draw. Colorado (and all other western state) residents fail to comprehend simple economics of NRs paying about 10x more per license and how that revenue funds the majority of the CPW wildlife budget.


Draw states can go suck an egg. When they are overpopulated with animals and have very little funds for their state's wildlife budgets they will rethink their decisions. I will be content right here with my own paid off ranch and my lifetime license.

Re: Colorado Eliminates Over-the-Counter Archery Elk Tags for Nonresidents [Re: ntxtrapper] #9064990 06/20/24 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ntxtrapper
Originally Posted by Gringo Bling
Originally Posted by ntxtrapper
I hunted Colorado for years when everything was OTC. I stopped going when they started the draw. I don’t support states with draws with my money. Hunting isn’t a lottery for me.

That pretty much eliminates the entire west for you then. Too many hunters to have OTC.

I wish every GMU in CO went to a draw. Colorado (and all other western state) residents fail to comprehend simple economics of NRs paying about 10x more per license and how that revenue funds the majority of the CPW wildlife budget.


Draw states can go suck an egg. When they are overpopulated with animals and have very little funds for their state's wildlife budgets they will rethink their decisions. I will be content right here with my own paid off ranch and my lifetime license.



I don’t think any western state is in danger of being overpopulated with ungulates. Bad winters, wolves, bears and mountain lions keep populations in check, if not well below carrying capacity. Thats the whole reason behind wolf introductions.

I wish every unit was OTC and the hills and dales burst at the seams with game, but I can definitely see the need for limited quota units.



For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Colorado Eliminates Over-the-Counter Archery Elk Tags for Nonresidents [Re: TurkeyHunter] #9065104 06/21/24 01:40 AM
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The governor's husband is anti hunting, he pushed for the wolves.

Re: Colorado Eliminates Over-the-Counter Archery Elk Tags for Nonresidents [Re: bp3] #9065106 06/21/24 01:42 AM
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Originally Posted by bp3
The governor's husband is anti hunting, he pushed for the wolves.


He also pushed alot of anti’s onto the wildlife board


Bottom line, never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals.-Sen Joni Ernst
Re: Colorado Eliminates Over-the-Counter Archery Elk Tags for Nonresidents [Re: TurkeyHunter] #9066043 06/23/24 03:14 AM
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I’m all for them doing away with archery OTC and hopefully they’ll move right on through and do away with 2nd and 3rd rifle otc also. But if it’s anything like the other archery units they took out of the OTC pool the last few years, they’ll just have a huge tag quota and won’t see a difference. If guys have to choose to apply as 1st choice to get the unit they want, a lot of PP’s will start being used.

Re: Colorado Eliminates Over-the-Counter Archery Elk Tags for Nonresidents [Re: TurkeyHunter] #9066437 06/24/24 01:08 AM
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Colorado can do what they want with their tag allocations. I have always counted on them for OTC tags, but I don’t live there, and I don’t get to say what they should or shouldn’t do with their tags.

I will say that OTC tags are unsustainable. You can’t expect the population to continue to grow exponentially and everyone that wants a tag gets one. It doesn’t math up. There’s not more public land and there’s not more elk, as our populations increase. What the hell do you expect?

It’s also give and take. Want everyone and their brother and their dog and their brother’s dog to be able to hunt a single unit? Okay, enjoy your sucky hunt. Want a decent hunt? Guess what! That means not everyone gets to participate. Get over it. Texas has more whitetails than North America has elk. Sorry, that’s not enough to go around. Get in line.

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