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Say it ain't so Joe #9049466 05/19/24 04:03 PM
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Re: Say it ain't so Joe [Re: red stick] #9049474 05/19/24 04:22 PM
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They are going to have to hire a bunch of professional trappers.


"If your plan is for one year, plant rice.
If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."
-- Confucius
Re: Say it ain't so Joe [Re: VAFish] #9049524 05/19/24 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by VAFish
They are going to have to hire a bunch of professional trappers.



my question is, once trapped then what?

where are they gonna take them?

once again the govt. screws things up for regular folks.


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Re: Say it ain't so Joe [Re: VAFish] #9049619 05/19/24 11:36 PM
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Kentucky has been offering free trapping services to landowner for a few years, apparently not with the benefits they had hoped. https://fw.ky.gov/InvasiveSpecies/Pages/Wild-Pig-Removal.aspx

I got this quote from the above link...
Quote
Why ask hunters to refrain from shooting wild pigs?

Wild pigs are the smartest animal in the woods. Shooting into a sounder may remove 1-2 pigs, but it educates the remaining pigs. Hunting pressure forces pigs to become nocturnal, leave the area, and avoid all human activity. This makes them very difficult to find. By the time they are located on the landscape, they have increased in numbers.


So hunting in ineffective? But hunting will make them hard to find? I thought that was the point, to make them hard to find. Trapping will make them hard to find as well, LOL.

As far as forcing hogs to become nocturnal, if they are trapping, then what does it matter if the hogs are nocturnal or diurnal? It isn't like they are sending hog spotters out into the countryside and looking for hogs. They are taking reports, looking at damage, setting up game cams and/or setting up traps. The nocturnal issue is a non-issue.

Originally Posted by hopalong
Originally Posted by VAFish
They are going to have to hire a bunch of professional trappers.


my question is, once trapped then what?

where are they gonna take them?

once again the govt. screws things up for regular folks.


Once trapped, they will kill them. The bodies will get hauled to the dump or dead pile locations.

Originally Posted by VAFish
They are going to have to hire a bunch of professional trappers.


Missouri hired a bunch, but I don't think it was ever enough. Missouri still allows hunting on private lands, however.


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Re: Say it ain't so Joe [Re: Double Naught Spy] #9049696 05/20/24 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy
Kentucky has been offering free trapping services to landowner for a few years, apparently not with the benefits they had hoped. https://fw.ky.gov/InvasiveSpecies/Pages/Wild-Pig-Removal.aspx

I got this quote from the above link...
Quote
Why ask hunters to refrain from shooting wild pigs?

Wild pigs are the smartest animal in the woods. Shooting into a sounder may remove 1-2 pigs, but it educates the remaining pigs. Hunting pressure forces pigs to become nocturnal, leave the area, and avoid all human activity. This makes them very difficult to find. By the time they are located on the landscape, they have increased in numbers.


So hunting in ineffective? But hunting will make them hard to find? I thought that was the point, to make them hard to find. Trapping will make them hard to find as well, LOL.

As far as forcing hogs to become nocturnal, if they are trapping, then what does it matter if the hogs are nocturnal or diurnal? It isn't like they are sending hog spotters out into the countryside and looking for hogs. They are taking reports, looking at damage, setting up game cams and/or setting up traps. The nocturnal issue is a non-issue.

Originally Posted by hopalong
Originally Posted by VAFish
They are going to have to hire a bunch of professional trappers.


my question is, once trapped then what?

where are they gonna take them?

once again the govt. screws things up for regular folks.


Once trapped, they will kill them. The bodies will get hauled to the dump or dead pile locations.

Originally Posted by VAFish
They are going to have to hire a bunch of professional trappers.


Missouri hired a bunch, but I don't think it was ever enough. Missouri still allows hunting on private lands, however.





I actually agree with the premise that un-pressured pigs are easier to remove (by all means) than ones that have been educated.

It matters that pigs can be trapped both day and night because by default....pigs that are traveling/eating/watering anytime 24 hrs a day are more relaxed and therefore less wary.

IF efforts by the State are initiated quickly (at first sightings of pigs) and substantial resources applied, I believe Feral Hogs can be kept from spreading as quickly as they would otherwise.

The other objective (not as heavily stressed) is the effort to prevent hunters from ever developing a 'pig culture' like happened here in Texas.

For those that don't know 35-40 years ago.....you just did not see Feral Hogs outside of South Texas (near the Rio Grande) and East Texas.

And even then....numbers were small. The 'spread' (in Texas) can be directly attributed to Hog Doggers who caught/trapped and transported hogs all over the State for the sole purpose of having something to run their dogs on.

The next stage of 'spread' happened when hunters (some) decided they LIKED having something other than deer to hunt/shoot. Feral Hogs were actually a welcome sight on many hunting properties. Now look where we are.

Hell....a whole industry has been built around it. Land Owners (those with cash crops) are much less enthused with Feral Hogs, but hunters that mostly lease property and have no stake in it....continue to delight in having hogs to shoot.

Sadly the spread of Feral Hogs in the U.S. has become a losing battle in every State that has failed to address them immediately and vigorously.

We have Feral Hogs moving Southward now from Canada. Just we need. So I DO support the efforts of States to try to control the population (early on). But if efforts fail there and the population becomes established....then it is pointless to forbid the public from helping out. The battle is already lost.


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Re: Say it ain't so Joe [Re: red stick] #9050367 05/21/24 04:13 PM
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Quote
IF efforts by the State are initiated quickly (at first sightings of pigs) and substantial resources applied, I believe Feral Hogs can be kept from spreading as quickly as they would otherwise.


Well, that bus left the station some years ago. They have pigs reported not just in 1 or 2 counties, or 7 or 8 counties, but EIGHTY-ONE COUNTIES. That is 81 out of 120, or roughly 2/3 of the state.

As for their pig culture, they were bringing hogs and releasing them at least as far back as 2011. The culture is already ready.

Quote
For those that don't know 35-40 years ago.....you just did not see Feral Hogs outside of South Texas (near the Rio Grande) and East Texas.


Were there less hogs 35-40 years ago than 42 years ago? Just curious as we also had hogs cover 2/3 or or of the state back in 1982.
https://feralhogs.tamu.edu/feral-hog-distribution-and-expansion/


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Re: Say it ain't so Joe [Re: Double Naught Spy] #9050389 05/21/24 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy
Quote
IF efforts by the State are initiated quickly (at first sightings of pigs) and substantial resources applied, I believe Feral Hogs can be kept from spreading as quickly as they would otherwise.


Well, that bus left the station some years ago. They have pigs reported not just in 1 or 2 counties, or 7 or 8 counties, but EIGHTY-ONE COUNTIES. That is 81 out of 120, or roughly 2/3 of the state.

As for their pig culture, they were bringing hogs and releasing them at least as far back as 2011. The culture is already ready.

Quote
For those that don't know 35-40 years ago.....you just did not see Feral Hogs outside of South Texas (near the Rio Grande) and East Texas.


Were there less hogs 35-40 years ago than 42 years ago? Just curious as we also had hogs cover 2/3 or or of the state back in 1982.
https://feralhogs.tamu.edu/feral-hog-distribution-and-expansion/


Yes, there were fewer hogs (actual population) years ago. The map cited represents areas where hogs had been sighted or designated 'established' and does not reflect (in entirety) the population.

By default.... hog populations increase steadily (where 'spread' is by natural travel). Obviously hogs aren't getting on a bus and just going places.

They must first make a living where they are, reproduce and spread out as conditions allow. So its a fact too plain to require any argument that there were fewer hogs in the past.

Two BIG factors aiding in that growth have been:

1. Assisted relocation.
2. Pig Culture (some folks want them).

Last edited by flintknapper; 05/21/24 05:15 PM.

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Re: Say it ain't so Joe [Re: red stick] #9050652 05/22/24 09:56 AM
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if they really want to control them they need to at least do a pilot program with warfarin.

there is no "keeping up with them" unless you can kill about 65% of them, that is just to "keep up" out here.

they are a self inflicted problem that has grown almost unmanageable even with hunting, you may get some of a sounder but if 4-5 or more get away you just thinned the herd for a bit.

either large traps that are regularly monitored/attended to or warfarin imo are the best option to just control them, I don't see them ever being eradicated completely.

jmo

if you have never driven a tractor across a rooted up pasture/field then you really haven't experienced just how destructive they are.


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Re: Say it ain't so Joe [Re: red stick] #9051732 05/24/24 02:08 PM
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scratch thinking remember seeing an article about hogs invading Minnesota from Canada.
Basicly saying something. Don't shoot, report, & they send pro trappers.

bs are they going ta send people ta school, earn a degree, ta become pro's @ trapping hogs ?
Sounds like political bs who believe "Guns don't kill" again, that's what they were designed for.
Look @ all the wars, loss of lives, each new war, they improve them, mass shootings.
The right ta bare arms, for hunting, putting food on the grill .

Boarder part of MN tis mostly woods, thinking, open for public hunting. Know several people who have
gone ta Texas for hog hunts, or would like ta do hog hunts. Here, it's not, about the big buck$. Yet.
Alot has changed here since the 60's 70's 80's. But money does talk. Seen lots of hunters in Texas,
loose thar lease. & (tis sure gonna get some back feed) Texas took hog hunting as a business.
Many times seen hunters willing ta help, but turned away.
Since been on here, pushed the public hunting for hog hunts. Keep checking for input in that section
OSBWMA was my ta goto place for hog hunts, & have seen difference hunters make.
i hunted the out of they areas, thick areas, it pushes hogs around, & had lots of success.
Didn't talk the talk, rather walked the walk.

Agree trapping has its place, large traps, set up ta hold many hogs. The round 6 of 9 trap,
Let's hogs in but tougher ta get out, or as several here have posted. large traps.

But am against the warfarin bs. Believe texas has done a pilot program, & it failed.
Would effect other wildlife. Poison tis NOT the way ta go.

Pushing the let em walk, give em another year. Tis what ta pushing whin ya don't allow,
hunters ta hunt. Just my 2cents still got cheap posts.

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Re: Say it ain't so Joe [Re: 1860.colt] #9051783 05/24/24 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by 1860.colt



But am against the warfarin bs. Believe texas has done a pilot program, & it failed.
Would effect other wildlife. Poison tis NOT the way ta go.


flag



they give patients warfarin for a blood thinner after heart attacks and for other reasons, it is not a poison.

hogs can't handle it beyond a certain dosage, it won't affect any other wildlife the way it affects pigs.

Wild pigs (Sus scrofa) are a highly detrimental invasive species that occupy a rapidly expanding range within the United States. In Australia, field trials evaluating baits containing 0.09% warfarin resulted in wild pig population reduction >95%.Nov 7, 2018
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6221311/#:~:text=Wild%20pigs%20(Sus%20scrofa)%20are,pig%20population%20reduction%20%3E95%25.


WHAT IS WARFARIN HOG BAIT?
 Warfarin (Coumadin) is an FDA approved prescription medication commonly used by humans to prevent blood clots.
 Vitamin K counteracts the effects of Warfarin.
 Warfarin hog bait is only 1/5 the strength of over the counter rat bait.
 Warfarin hog bait has little effect on all other animals, including house pets like dogs—to be fatal, the average dog
would have to consume 176 pounds in 1 day, or 13 pounds of bait daily, for 5 days.

 Warfarin hog bait cannot be spread on the ground—it can only be sold and distributed to licensed users.
 While TDA supports trapping and hunting, this bait is intended for use in extreme cases of overpopulation where those
options do not provide results to prevent the millions of dollars in damage that hogs cause to crops and property, as
well as hog attacks on small animals and other wildlife.

https://texasagriculture.gov/Portals/0/pesticide/Feral%20Hog%20Bait%20Quick%20Facts.pdf

Last edited by hopalong; 05/24/24 04:19 PM.

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Re: Say it ain't so Joe [Re: red stick] #9051788 05/24/24 04:28 PM
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I call BS on their strategy. Many of my reasons are cited above by others.

Leaving them be until government can deal with them is a freaking joke. Let them breed? Yeah, that'll work out for everyone involved. roflmao

Why not just pay a bounty for each hog turned in? That would be cheaper and likely more effective than government being involved in the actual "removal" process.


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Re: Say it ain't so Joe [Re: psycho0819] #9051836 05/24/24 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by psycho0819
I call BS on their strategy. Many of my reasons are cited above by others.

Leaving them be until government can deal with them is a freaking joke. Let them breed? Yeah, that'll work out for everyone involved. roflmao

Why not just pay a bounty for each hog turned in? That would be cheaper and likely more effective than government being involved in the actual "removal" process.



Thought we were talking about illegals there for a minute.

Re: Say it ain't so Joe [Re: hopalong] #9051878 05/24/24 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by hopalong
Originally Posted by 1860.colt



But am against the warfarin bs. Believe texas has done a pilot program, & it failed.
Would effect other wildlife. Poison tis NOT the way ta go.


flag



they give patients warfarin for a blood thinner after heart attacks and for other reasons, it is not a poison.

hogs can't handle it beyond a certain dosage, it won't affect any other wildlife the way it affects pigs.

Wild pigs (Sus scrofa) are a highly detrimental invasive species that occupy a rapidly expanding range within the United States. In Australia, field trials evaluating baits containing 0.09% warfarin resulted in wild pig population reduction >95%.Nov 7, 2018
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6221311/#:~:text=Wild%20pigs%20(Sus%20scrofa)%20are,pig%20population%20reduction%20%3E95%25.


WHAT IS WARFARIN HOG BAIT?
 Warfarin (Coumadin) is an FDA approved prescription medication commonly used by humans to prevent blood clots.
 Vitamin K counteracts the effects of Warfarin.
 Warfarin hog bait is only 1/5 the strength of over the counter rat bait.
 Warfarin hog bait has little effect on all other animals, including house pets like dogs—to be fatal, the average dog
would have to consume 176 pounds in 1 day, or 13 pounds of bait daily, for 5 days.

 Warfarin hog bait cannot be spread on the ground—it can only be sold and distributed to licensed users.
 While TDA supports trapping and hunting, this bait is intended for use in extreme cases of overpopulation where those
options do not provide results to prevent the millions of dollars in damage that hogs cause to crops and property, as
well as hog attacks on small animals and other wildlife.

https://texasagriculture.gov/Portals/0/pesticide/Feral%20Hog%20Bait%20Quick%20Facts.pdf



Thank ya for the up date, inpute, info on warfarin.
Would still stick with hunting & trapping.
Warfarin as a last, last, last resort.

Again cheers Thanks for the info.
Would still prefer more studies.



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Re: Say it ain't so Joe [Re: red stick] #9051902 05/24/24 09:57 PM
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just pointing out that for what ky says they want to do I think the warfarin done like Tx. does it would be a whole lot better and cheaper.


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