Hi all. 2024 is going to be year of the predator. I got a Tikka T3x 22-50 and a Wraith Max 4k. I could use it during the day, but would prefer glass. I have a pst gen 2 5-25 that could serve this purpose, but would then get QD mounts for both (so maybe American Defense Manuf. and GG&G). How reliably do these return to zero when going on and off of the same gun?

Another part of the equation is that I just picked up a Franchi Momentum Elite Varmint on a great deal (sub $700) and could just bring two rifles with one for day and one for night. With a scope that Franchi is a bit heavy at 11 lbs 5 oz so I am on the bubble about keeping it around. However, the cost of the QD mounts would be close to $400 bucks... for that price I am probably better off just having two rigs as it is more than 1/2 of the cost of gun #2.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts
Q

Well, one of the advantages of digital NV is that it works well in the day time and so no need to be switching between optics for day and night.

How reliable are RTZ QD mounts? They are very reliable (within 1-2 MOA depending on brands' claims) until something goes wrong, undoubtedly user error. I have seen this with clip-ons and with scopes moved between rifles. It all works great until you find yourself several inches off at 50 yards for no apparent reason except that you didn't verify zero before hunting and it turns out, something went wrong.

I have never had a QD mount that didn’t return to zero within an MOA when taken on and off same setup. That being said I never trusted it enough to not verify so it does cost some ammo.

I'd say it's just a matter of how confident you are in your QD system.

Personally, I am not able to trust a QD mount to the point that I don't feel the need to fire a round or two to verify. That's why I have a dedicated daytime hog gun and a dedicated night time hog gun. To me, it's just too much like a fuse. You can turn on your gadget and when it comes up you know the fuse must still be good, but the only way to know whether it's going to work the next time is to turn it on again.

How do you know that light in the refrigerator actually turns off every time you close the fridge door?

We used a small child for that. Put them inside and you can tell by the scream if the light is on or off, well that an she put her hand in some cold beans, but you get the idea.

I don't think small children will help with RTZ mount repeatability, however.

While the wraiths are very decent during the day, it is nothing compared to the 5-25 viper.

I’d just setup a second rifle.

I’ve swapped the Wraith out for a standard scope a couple of times. The Wraith has always been ‘right’ when I put it back on, but that’s more like ‘right about where it should be, rather than precisely where it should be’. And, my OCD-ness forces me to check, with one round or two.

I swap between a thermal and a day scope on a few rifles. I have ADM & ZroDlta mounts, and they have been great. Often my hunts start before daylight and end mid morning and then stay in the evening and end after sundown. Having the ability to easily swap them out is crucial for me. Much better than carrying 2 guns because there is no telling how far away from the truck I’ll end up.

That is certainly the most foolproof solution.

That is exactly the use case I am thinking of. Also, if i bring separate set-ups it would be the 22-250 and 5.556 or .243 or 6.5, I won't buy a second 22-250. Thanks for sharing your experience with the mounts.

While maybe the gun was getting hot, so far with sighting in the wraith it seems that generally it's performance is 'about where it should be' as opposed to 'precisely where it should be,' but I have only messed with it on two occasions but have found that the one shot adjustment is great at moving POI significant distance across the paper, but for precise zero it has struggled with that last MOA.

That is most likely an inconsistent ammo problem.

That could very well be the case as I was testing different kinds (22-250 ammo availability seems spotty). For this gun the Win Ballistic Silvertip is acceptable, Win Varmint X slightly worse to bad, and the Win Super X is terrible. Hornady Varmint Express is by far the best and I was lucky enough to find 6 boxes.

Not to hijack my own thread, but if you have 22-250 ammo suggestions that would be great.

I don't buy ammo, I make ammo.
Sorry, I can't make any suggestion for mass production ammo.

I've loaded and fired many thousands of a rounds of .22-250, it is a very good cartridge!

I think I must have been misunderstood. My point actually was that when I swapped scopes and put the Wraith back on, the POI is where it should be. The scope mounts have not introduced any noticeable changes in POI. But, for shooting my best groups with that rifle, I would not be using the Wraith Mini. That’s why I have QD mounts. With the Athlon Midas on it, I can shoot some decent groups. With the Wraith on it, I get what might be called approximately decent groups that are “right about where they should be”, but slightly larger.

The thing that matters is that I don’t think the QD mounts are introducing noticeable error. More precise shooters may think otherwise.

Very interesting that some night vision/thermal folks take two scopes to the stand and swap them out as needed. I never thought of that, but can see the logic - if the QD mounts can be trusted.

For Big and the OP-- Any reason not to run a clip on of some sort? Not the cheapest option but allows you to go to any rifle you want as long as it has a rail for it.

When I looked into this a few years ago, all I heard was POI changes everyone you put the thermal on the scope, meaning you always needed to shoot it and adjust.

I’ve been hearing they have greatly improved since then, but I’m already invested into what I have and it works for me.

Your NV has enough resolution for reasonably long shots, day or night.