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Public Land Application Strategy #8982718 01/05/24 09:09 PM
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Hey Yall,

I am curious what everyone's public land application strategy is? The reason I ask is to see if there is a better or more efficient way to draw tags as well as if I there are states that I might want to start building points or applying for. My constraints, like most of you, are vacation time and cost. I get two weeks a year to hunt and limit my application costs to ~$1000 without tags as approved by the Mrs. Here is my strategy for reference with notes on my thinking. I mostly target going elk hunting across the West but If I am already applying for Elk I also build points in other species. I try to guarantee one hunt with points a year and then hopefully draw another one in a random draw state like TX, NM, AZ or UT. If I don't get a second hunt in the draws I will get an OTC tag. Even with all this applying, I have typically only draw one hunt and have to do an OTC hunt if I want to go hunting twice in a year.

State:
TX - I apply in every category at least one hunt but sometimes I will pick really hard hunts to draw most years because I won't have enough PTO
WY - Elk, Deer, Antelope - I build points hoping to draw a really good deer and antelope tag but for elk I apply for low point units just to go hunting. Moose, sheep, goat are horrible odds
AZ - E, D, A - I am building points for a really good hunt as well. I put an easy to draw hunt for 2nd choice elk but still will take me 10 years probably
CO - E, D, A - Building points for a good hunt that will probably take me 6ish years for elk and deer. Antelope is an afterthought
NM - E, D, A, Oryx - Elk is a once every 10 year hunt. Deer, I hunt in the Southeast units which is a once in 4 year tag. Antelope probably won't get drawn in my lifetime
UT - E, D, A , Bison, Moose - Long odds on everything unfortunately
GA - Alligator - Waiting for a tag and might take me 9 points
SC - Alligator - Might get drawn this year with 4 points
VA - Elk - odds are horrible
ME - Moose - Once in a lifetime
VT - Moose - Once in a lifetime
NH - Moose - OIL

Thinking about putting in for MS alligator. I used to apply for Pennsylvania & Kentucky elk but odds are so long. So, What is your strategy? Any other states or hunts worth applying for? Let me know your thoughts!


Last edited by TXNMHunter; 01/05/24 09:27 PM.
Re: Public Land Application Strategy [Re: TXNMHunter] #8983145 01/06/24 08:04 PM
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As a hunter who grew up in VA, I wouldn't bother for elk in VA, if you want to hunt there I'd focus on turkey/bear/deer.

Re: Public Land Application Strategy [Re: TXNMHunter] #8985019 01/10/24 05:43 AM
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I quit building points in WY, CO & AZ. At one time I had 13 points in WY for pronghorn. I was shooting for the red desert and was one point behind max. Looking at the real odds, it would have been another 7 years until I was assured of a draw. I've decided to spend my points as soon as I can get a unit that isn't all private and has some limitation to tags. That's 4 in Co for MD and Elk. 4-5 for the same in WY and 4 for Coues, 6 I think for Elk in AZ but since I hope to be a resident there by 25 I'll probably save those until I can get a better draw.

I am building points in SD for deer and expect to spend them in 25.

I haven't bothered with Idaho, NV, UT or NM but I will probably start in NM in 25.

I have 5 elk points in CO and am just waiting for a group or my preferred guide to come together. 5 deer point as well. Of all of these, I think CO has the biggest no man's land between 3 points and max points. There are some gems in there but I ain't spillin' 'em.

I have 3 elk and deer points in WY and I'll spend them in 26, hopefully unless Daughter and I go to AK for Caribou.

I have 5 deer points in AZ. I turned by December 1-10 tag back in and will spend them next year. I should have enough to draw the late December hunt. I have 4 elk points (will have 6 next year as I will get the loyalty point and I'm going to do AZ hunter safety for an extra point)

Of all of those, it's my opinion that AZ is the only one to bank points up to get the loyalty point for elk. I haven't looked at elk units so I don't know if there are gems at that level or not.

I anyone is serious about CO elk or deer and has 4 or more points and wants to group up let me know.


No matter how high a duck flies a hammer still breaks a window.
Re: Public Land Application Strategy [Re: jnd59] #8985549 01/11/24 03:06 AM
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Thanks for the input. I am mostly in agreement with your strategy as well. There are a few hunts that I am holding out for a really good tag like AZ deer and elk or WY pronghorn or UT Elk but everything else I would rather hunt every couple years than hunt a unit once or twice in my lifetime.

If you need some pointers on units in NM, let me know. I would definitely recommend applying there.

AZ is an interesting state to apply in. I really want to hunt the best units but I just don't think I will ever get the chance in my lifetime with point creep. Not really sure what to do there so for now just putting in for the best units but I will probably give up and just do late rifle hunts and pray I get lucky and draw my first choice.

I would be interested in a CO deer hunt but I only have 3 points.

UT is such a depressing place to apply. All hunts are extremely long odds so I might give up there in the future and spend that money in ID where at least I have a decent chance in my lifetime.

Do you apply for GEN Tags in WY? I have 5 points and plan on drawing a GEN elk tag this year. Thinking about hunting one of the southern units

Re: Public Land Application Strategy [Re: TXNMHunter] #8987294 01/14/24 08:28 AM
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I think I have 4 in Wyoming. I'll probably go for a general tag in one of the southern units in a couple years (less wilderness]). I want to spend my co points before the wolves make an impact.

If your hunting coues in AZ then you could pick up a late season gun tag for 4 to six points. I can pm some units if interested. I'll pm you about NM when I'm serious about applying. I try to not over commit or get stuck with having to decide which tag I give up.

I agree with Utah. If I were younger maybe, but it's a long slog.

I'm really nervous about what us happening in AK with the feds starting to limit non resident hunts. I may move that one ahead of CO if I can find the money and an outfitter.


No matter how high a duck flies a hammer still breaks a window.
Re: Public Land Application Strategy [Re: jnd59] #8987895 01/15/24 02:10 AM
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Have you hunted South Dakota before? I also have a couple of black hill deer and bison points there. I forgot to include that in my OP.

Not interested in coues deer for some reason so planning to kill a muley if I ever get drawn in Arizona.

Re: Public Land Application Strategy [Re: TXNMHunter] #8987965 01/15/24 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by TXNMHunter
Hey Yall,

I am curious what everyone's public land application strategy is? The reason I ask is to see if there is a better or more efficient way to draw tags as well as if I there are states that I might want to start building points or applying for. My constraints, like most of you, are vacation time and cost. I get two weeks a year to hunt and limit my application costs to ~$1000 without tags as approved by the Mrs. Here is my strategy for reference with notes on my thinking. I mostly target going elk hunting across the West but If I am already applying for Elk I also build points in other species. I try to guarantee one hunt with points a year and then hopefully draw another one in a random draw state like TX, NM, AZ or UT. If I don't get a second hunt in the draws I will get an OTC tag. Even with all this applying, I have typically only draw one hunt and have to do an OTC hunt if I want to go hunting twice in a year.

State:
TX - I apply in every category at least one hunt but sometimes I will pick really hard hunts to draw most years because I won't have enough PTO
WY - Elk, Deer, Antelope - I build points hoping to draw a really good deer and antelope tag but for elk I apply for low point units just to go hunting. Moose, sheep, goat are horrible odds
AZ - E, D, A - I am building points for a really good hunt as well. I put an easy to draw hunt for 2nd choice elk but still will take me 10 years probably
CO - E, D, A - Building points for a good hunt that will probably take me 6ish years for elk and deer. Antelope is an afterthought
NM - E, D, A, Oryx - Elk is a once every 10 year hunt. Deer, I hunt in the Southeast units which is a once in 4 year tag. Antelope probably won't get drawn in my lifetime
UT - E, D, A , Bison, Moose - Long odds on everything unfortunately
GA - Alligator - Waiting for a tag and might take me 9 points
SC - Alligator - Might get drawn this year with 4 points
VA - Elk - odds are horrible
ME - Moose - Once in a lifetime
VT - Moose - Once in a lifetime
NH - Moose - OIL

Thinking about putting in for MS alligator. I used to apply for Pennsylvania & Kentucky elk but odds are so long. So, What is your strategy? Any other states or hunts worth applying for? Let me know your thoughts!



kentucky is a cheap raffle @$10 regardless if odds someone will win it.

I hunt elk every year. CO has a tag turn back program, so instead of just points might look into a second or third choice you could draw and atleast hunt and gain a point, and if you draw a better unit in say AZ, NM or Idaho that has a complete random option, you can turn tag back in and build points.


In most PP states I have 13 or more points including CO.


Bottom line, never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals.-Sen Joni Ernst
Re: Public Land Application Strategy [Re: BOBO the Clown] #8988283 01/15/24 06:33 PM
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Thanks for the response. I may look into the colorado tags but I imagine the hunts that get drawn for 2nd or 3rd choice are pretty bad?

13 points in most states? That is a lot of waiting so i am curious what are you waiting for?

Re: Public Land Application Strategy [Re: TXNMHunter] #8988396 01/15/24 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by TXNMHunter
Thanks for the response. I may look into the colorado tags but I imagine the hunts that get drawn for 2nd or 3rd choice are pretty bad?

13 points in most states? That is a lot of waiting so i am curious what are you waiting for?


I’m not waiting, I hunt elk in 1-3 states(CO, Idaho, NM) almost every year. In fact last couple years I have turned my CO 3rd choice draw tag in for a CO OTC tag or refund, while still building points.

Technically 13pts is kind of no mans land in most states. Most 13 pt NR units are 2-5 Res pt units. those typically arent really worth the cheese, especially if you have confidence in the 2nd/3rd choice units, with all of this said most the high PP units are high because they lowered tag limits because the terrain is easier, high tag numbers would cause a kill off, vs OTC unit thats typically brutal contour or all private.


My Elk app plan in order of thought process

1)build points or a force draw(CO, NV, UT, AZ,WY)
nothing I want to hunt then moved to #2

2)random draw high end units(NM, AZ, Idaho, KY, Okla )

3)back up states with OTC/LOV or easy draw with tag turn back(OTC- CO, Idaho. or LOV states: TX, Okla, UT, NM, CO )



Mule deer is kind of similar, I usually draw a NM jan Archery tag, and/or hunt TX and Okla mulies. CO I cashed in my points on a Bosque tag, but I wont let it get passed 4-5pt again. I can hunt most the units I want with 2-3 points. The other states are pretty much just building points until I get bored or can draw the right unit


Bottom line, never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals.-Sen Joni Ernst
Re: Public Land Application Strategy [Re: TXNMHunter] #8989612 01/17/24 07:51 PM
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I had forgotten you could turn your Co tag back in. I think I'll pull the trigger on Co this year, buy points in Wy and AZ (already done for elk) and see if I can still find, and afford, an outfitter/pilot for AK. I really should apply in NM this year (is that deadline past? I was thinking it was February).


No matter how high a duck flies a hammer still breaks a window.
Re: Public Land Application Strategy [Re: jnd59] #8989634 01/17/24 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jnd59
I had forgotten you could turn your Co tag back in. I think I'll pull the trigger on Co this year, buy points in Wy and AZ (already done for elk) and see if I can still find, and afford, an outfitter/pilot for AK. I really should apply in NM this year (is that deadline past? I was thinking it was February).


No think Feb is draw bear and turkey. March is everything else. If you are going to apply for one species might as well apply for all. Basically same cost


Bottom line, never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals.-Sen Joni Ernst
Re: Public Land Application Strategy [Re: TXNMHunter] #8989840 01/18/24 03:24 AM
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NM just opened the draw today!

Oklahoma has a draw system? I will look into it but is it expensive or worth it to apply there?

For Colorado, if you turn your tag back in do you get money and points back? Curious bc I have enough points for an elk tag but If I get an elk tag somewhere else I will skip Colorado this year and go hunting there next year.

Re: Public Land Application Strategy [Re: TXNMHunter] #8989913 01/18/24 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by TXNMHunter
NM just opened the draw today!

Oklahoma has a draw system? I will look into it but is it expensive or worth it to apply there?

For Colorado, if you turn your tag back in do you get money and points back? Curious bc I have enough points for an elk tag but If I get an elk tag somewhere else I will skip Colorado this year and go hunting there next year.


NM opened for bear and turkey, you dint want to apply for every thing else yet if using a CC. Interest will get you.

yes Okla has a draw system. you have to buy a NR hunting incense to apply. think it like 220 public land draw elk tags. Its like Texas though, # point = # x name in hat. You cant force a draw.

Yes Co has turn back and yes you keep points, but if it 1st choice, you dont again appoint if you turn back . If you draw 2nd or 3rd choice you gain appoint also.

Last edited by BOBO the Clown; 01/18/24 02:15 PM.

Bottom line, never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals.-Sen Joni Ernst
Re: Public Land Application Strategy [Re: BOBO the Clown] #8990000 01/18/24 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Yes Co has turn back and yes you keep points, but if it 1st choice, you dont again appoint if you turn back . If you draw 2nd or 3rd choice you gain appoint also.

Colorado has a brief surrender period of ~1 week after licenses are issued where you can get back your points and your money. I did this for my son last year.

A BRIEF PERIOD TO SURRENDER YOUR LICENSE AFTER THE PRIMARY DRAW AND NOW THE SECONDARY DRAW IS AVAILABLE:
Customers who are successful in the primary or secondary draw will be provided with a short period when they can decide to surrender their license if they no longer want it, receiving preference point restoration to the pre-draw level, a refund of the license fee and removal of the license from the customer's account.

Re: Public Land Application Strategy [Re: TXNMHunter] #8990002 01/18/24 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by TXNMHunter
I would be interested in a CO deer hunt but I only have 3 points.

There are plenty of quality CO GMUs that you can hunt with 3 points.

Re: Public Land Application Strategy [Re: Gringo Bling] #8990085 01/18/24 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Gringo Bling
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Yes Co has turn back and yes you keep points, but if it 1st choice, you dont again appoint if you turn back . If you draw 2nd or 3rd choice you gain appoint also.

Colorado has a brief surrender period of ~1 week after licenses are issued where you can get back your points and your money. I did this for my son last year.

A BRIEF PERIOD TO SURRENDER YOUR LICENSE AFTER THE PRIMARY DRAW AND NOW THE SECONDARY DRAW IS AVAILABLE:
Customers who are successful in the primary or secondary draw will be provided with a short period when they can decide to surrender their license if they no longer want it, receiving preference point restoration to the pre-draw level, a refund of the license fee and removal of the license from the customer's account.



last year it had to be post marked 30 days before that season starts. Ive done it last three years as Ive returned my draw tag for OTC.

I will look up every thing again incase they changed,


edit- I see no changes for 24, where are you seeing one week?


Bottom line, never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals.-Sen Joni Ernst
Re: Public Land Application Strategy [Re: TXNMHunter] #8990096 01/18/24 07:38 PM
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Per https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/RulesRegs/Brochure/BigGame/biggame.pdf

If you drew a license you would like to return, payment for the license is still required first. You can then return it for a refund OR preference point restoration. You must relinquish your license AND carcass tag at least 30 days before opening day of the season for which the license is valid. ▶ License must be accompanied by a completed request form obtained at a CPW location or our website. Most refunds are subject to a $15 processing fee. Preference points are reinstated to a pre-draw level. You do NOT receive an additional preference point for 2023. ▶ Refund requests must be postmarked at least 30 DAYS before opening day of the season for which the license is valid and mailed to CPW, attn: Refund Office, 6060 Broadway, Denver, CO 80216. A license cannot be recovered once it has been returned along with a refund or preference point restoration request form to CPW.


Bottom line, never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals.-Sen Joni Ernst
Re: Public Land Application Strategy [Re: BOBO the Clown] #8990102 01/18/24 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown


edit- I see no changes for 24, where are you seeing one week?


https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/RulesRegs/Brochure/BigGame/biggame.pdf

Page 12:

▶ A BRIEF PERIOD TO SURRENDER YOUR LICENSE AFTER THE PRIMARY DRAW
AND NOW THE SECONDARY DRAW IS AVAILABLE:Customers who are successful in the primary or secondary draw will be provided with a short
period when they can decide to surrender their license if they no longer
want it, receiving preference point restoration to the pre-draw level, a
refund of the license fee and removal of the license from the customer's
account.

The deadline for the primary draw surrender period is Mon., June 5, at 11:59
p.m. MT. The deadline for the secondary draw period is Mon., July 10, at 11:59 p.m.
MT. If we're unable to charge the credit card on file in your account by the
payment deadline (June 16, 11:59 p.m. MT for the primary draw; July
21, 11:59 p.m. MT for the secondary draw), your license will be forfeited,
and you will lose BOTH the license and any preference points you used to
draw it. See page 8 for more details.

Re: Public Land Application Strategy [Re: BOBO the Clown] #8990109 01/18/24 08:21 PM
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This is page 19 same brochure and I know for sure I turned my back in end of July

Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Per https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/RulesRegs/Brochure/BigGame/biggame.pdf

If you drew a license you would like to return, payment for the license is still required first. You can then return it for a refund OR preference point restoration. You must relinquish your license AND carcass tag at least 30 days before opening day of the season for which the license is valid. ▶ License must be accompanied by a completed request form obtained at a CPW location or our website. Most refunds are subject to a $15 processing fee. Preference points are reinstated to a pre-draw level. You do NOT receive an additional preference point for 2023. ▶ Refund requests must be postmarked at least 30 DAYS before opening day of the season for which the license is valid and mailed to CPW, attn: Refund Office, 6060 Broadway, Denver, CO 80216. A license cannot be recovered once it has been returned along with a refund or preference point restoration request form to CPW.


Bottom line, never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals.-Sen Joni Ernst
Re: Public Land Application Strategy [Re: TXNMHunter] #8990112 01/18/24 08:39 PM
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alright Just got off phone with them. We are both right

June 5th is if you drew 1st choice and want a point this year and Money back.

30 days is money and you return to pre-draw level points, assuming you drew first choice.


Bottom line, never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals.-Sen Joni Ernst
Re: Public Land Application Strategy [Re: TXNMHunter] #8990227 01/19/24 01:35 AM
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Good discussion! Keep it coming folks

Re: Public Land Application Strategy [Re: TXNMHunter] #8990283 01/19/24 03:37 AM
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Learned more in this post than hours on HuntinFool! Thanks y’all! The turn back strategy and/or drawable hunts for 2nd and 3rd choice is a solid approach. Thanks for sharing.


tough times don't last, tough people do
Re: Public Land Application Strategy [Re: TXHunter0619] #8990358 01/19/24 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by TXHunter0619
Learned more in this post than hours on HuntinFool! Thanks y’all! The turn back strategy and/or drawable hunts for 2nd and 3rd choice is a solid approach. Thanks for sharing.


epic outdoors pod cast is pretty good for general info.

The more experience you have when you draw that limited entry tag, more successful you will be.

I havent been skunked on elk in a long time, and I hunt alot of OTC and 2nd/3rd choice units. Dont believe every thing you read on line about OTC and 2nd choice units


Bottom line, never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals.-Sen Joni Ernst
Re: Public Land Application Strategy [Re: BOBO the Clown] #8991506 01/21/24 06:48 PM
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BOBO, I am going to need your colorado honey holes sir.

Re: Public Land Application Strategy [Re: TXNMHunter] #8991882 01/22/24 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by TXNMHunter
BOBO, I am going to need your colorado honey holes sir.


lol, PM me, Ill help you. But… be careful what you wish for, remember easy draw areas and OTC are that way because success odds are hindered by terrain.

With that said more time you spend hunting better and most important more efficient you get


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