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Re: 14 minute response time?? [Re: Buzzsaw] #8825547 03/29/23 04:59 PM
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In FW, the ISD reimburses the city for the majority of the SRO’s salaries and all of their vehicles. The system works great for all involved.

Re: 14 minute response time?? [Re: ntxtrapper] #8825549 03/29/23 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ntxtrapper
In FW, the ISD reimburses the city for the majority of the SRO’s salaries and all of their vehicles. The system works great for all involved.


WSISD has a dedicated police department that assists the city police department.


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Re: 14 minute response time?? [Re: gtrich94] #8825553 03/29/23 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by gtrich94
Originally Posted by ChadTRG42
14 minutes, I guess that's not too bad, and they stopped the threat. Here's how I think about it. There are 9330 public schools in Texas. We can pay to have trained personnel at every school, some schools would need one, some would need 2, maybe 3. Most small schools would need one. On average, let's say there are double the amount trained personnel than schools, so 18,660 trained officers. Pay them about 65,000 a year, would be $1.2 Billion in funds. Provide them a quality AR-15 and optic, about $1500 each, and gear, of about another $500 or so. That's about $37 Million. Total, that's about $1.25 Billion for Texas to pay to have multiple armed and trained personnel on site at every Texas public school. You could cut down the response time and have a show of force already there. It turns a soft target location into hard target location and should decrease the attempts of school shootings. Why can't we push for something like this!!??


I like what you are proposing, but your numbers are way low. You are going to need a minimum of 2 officers at every small school to cover things like vacations, sick time, Dr's appt's, the training you expect them to have ... Large high schools and middle schools will need even more because the campus is larger and someone would need to cover the sporting events that occur after school (unless you are expecting the SRO's to work from 6AM to 9-10PM when after school activities end and also pretty much every Saturday). So in reality, you are probably talking about needing an amount of SRO's that's 4x the number of schools. You will then probably need another 25% on top of that number for admin/management staff to support all those new officers. Add to that the facilities that will need to be built to support all of this, transportation for all of this, extra guns/ammo that will be needed to cover training, normal breakage/wear-and-tear ... Some of those things may already exist, and maybe you can re-purpose the existing SRO staff, but a lot of it will be new. The last thing I would add is that 65K a year is only the SRO's salary. When you add in the benefits package, a 65K salaried employee is probably closer to 90K. Then you have to remember that this is not a 1 time cost. So at a minimum on the people side, you have now added a large re-occurring cost that will only go up every year as wages/benefits increase. Lastly, this would have to be state funded because you aren't going to get every single school district to pass the property tax increase to fund it. So to throw out some numbers, 9330 schools, 37K SRO's, 9K administration, 90K per person = 4.1B for salary/benefit costs. Then you will need to add all the training/equipment/facility/transportation costs and you are probably closer to 5.5-6B per year, every year.

Like I said, I like the idea, but it's not a small cost for the state of Texas to pick up (you won't get federal funds for this).


I think your numbers are probably more realistic, and it is a significant expenditure, but what is more important than keeping kids safe at school? Surely we could do some trimming in the $127B state budget to find the funds for this.

Re: 14 minute response time?? [Re: Buzzsaw] #8825558 03/29/23 05:15 PM
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The fact remains if we (the US) wanted to protect schools, we would protect schools. Schools are a local issue and local funding can privide enough funding for protecting schools. We do not need big govt to provide anything IF we decided protecting schools was a priority.

Here is reality: we are protecting convenience. Convenience for students, parents, teachers, admin, etc etc, convenience for athletics dept and football stadiums for joe pblic to go cheer on the local football team (don't get me wrong, I love HS football), convenience to say this is not going to happen here so we have time....

We protect convenience rather than kids in this country. Heck, if we protected kids and not convenience Roe v Wade would have been over turned a long time back. How sad that as a society we have said a mom's convenience is worth more than the life of a child.

Re: 14 minute response time?? [Re: SherpaPhil] #8825559 03/29/23 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by SherpaPhil
Originally Posted by gtrich94
Originally Posted by ChadTRG42
14 minutes, I guess that's not too bad, and they stopped the threat. Here's how I think about it. There are 9330 public schools in Texas. We can pay to have trained personnel at every school, some schools would need one, some would need 2, maybe 3. Most small schools would need one. On average, let's say there are double the amount trained personnel than schools, so 18,660 trained officers. Pay them about 65,000 a year, would be $1.2 Billion in funds. Provide them a quality AR-15 and optic, about $1500 each, and gear, of about another $500 or so. That's about $37 Million. Total, that's about $1.25 Billion for Texas to pay to have multiple armed and trained personnel on site at every Texas public school. You could cut down the response time and have a show of force already there. It turns a soft target location into hard target location and should decrease the attempts of school shootings. Why can't we push for something like this!!??


I like what you are proposing, but your numbers are way low. You are going to need a minimum of 2 officers at every small school to cover things like vacations, sick time, Dr's appt's, the training you expect them to have ... Large high schools and middle schools will need even more because the campus is larger and someone would need to cover the sporting events that occur after school (unless you are expecting the SRO's to work from 6AM to 9-10PM when after school activities end and also pretty much every Saturday). So in reality, you are probably talking about needing an amount of SRO's that's 4x the number of schools. You will then probably need another 25% on top of that number for admin/management staff to support all those new officers. Add to that the facilities that will need to be built to support all of this, transportation for all of this, extra guns/ammo that will be needed to cover training, normal breakage/wear-and-tear ... Some of those things may already exist, and maybe you can re-purpose the existing SRO staff, but a lot of it will be new. The last thing I would add is that 65K a year is only the SRO's salary. When you add in the benefits package, a 65K salaried employee is probably closer to 90K. Then you have to remember that this is not a 1 time cost. So at a minimum on the people side, you have now added a large re-occurring cost that will only go up every year as wages/benefits increase. Lastly, this would have to be state funded because you aren't going to get every single school district to pass the property tax increase to fund it. So to throw out some numbers, 9330 schools, 37K SRO's, 9K administration, 90K per person = 4.1B for salary/benefit costs. Then you will need to add all the training/equipment/facility/transportation costs and you are probably closer to 5.5-6B per year, every year.

Like I said, I like the idea, but it's not a small cost for the state of Texas to pick up (you won't get federal funds for this).


I think your numbers are probably more realistic, and it is a significant expenditure, but what is more important than keeping kids safe at school? Surely we could do some trimming in the $127B state budget to find the funds for this.


I thought the lottery was supposed to support the schools in Texas.


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Re: 14 minute response time?? [Re: Buzzsaw] #8825561 03/29/23 05:16 PM
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I know there is going to be a lot more details and added costs to my basic math. But it's certainly a start. Why couldn't we hash those figures out? Maybe even get some federal funding?? Sure, there are a lot of details to iron out. But we HAVE to start somewhere and have a plan. Create a plan, work the plan, and refine that plan with the proper people in the education system and legislature.


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Re: 14 minute response time?? [Re: unclebubba] #8825566 03/29/23 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by unclebubba
The people that commit these atrocities aren't well trained, they aren't even tacticool bad arses. I would think that even a weekend warrior that had little formal training would have no problem eliminating these sick F's as long as they could control their fear.


thats what I was alluding too. We see it even among our own Military and different police units


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Re: 14 minute response time?? [Re: Buzzsaw] #8825567 03/29/23 05:29 PM
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Talking to my son's tennis coach after I watched him back the bus into a spot. He gets extra pay for driving a bus and even a little more for coaching. All volunteers of course but why not extra pay for being trained to respond with arms?

Re: 14 minute response time?? [Re: Buzzsaw] #8825571 03/29/23 05:35 PM
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Government spending is all about allocation of limited resources. Dropping 4 to 5 billion per annum of beefing up security as described above is not money well spent when you consider how rarely kids get shot up compared to the general population at large. If you are really concerned about saving childrens lives there are other areas that pay back better dividends in lives saved.

Re: 14 minute response time?? [Re: Buzzsaw] #8825579 03/29/23 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Buzzsaw
GREAT answers !!

I know it will freak students out to see men and women dressed in full battle armored uniforms with fully auto M6's, he77 maybe a S.A.W. (kinda heavy). But when these soldiers are nice and talk to the kids like they are just normal police, the kids AND teachers will feel much safer.


Been saying this for years. If I was one guarding the school, I'd work very hard to make sure staff and students were at ease, and glad I was there. Have fun with the kids, heckle them in the halls, make them laugh and smile every day.


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Re: 14 minute response time?? [Re: ChadTRG42] #8825582 03/29/23 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ChadTRG42
14 minutes, I guess that's not too bad, and they stopped the threat. Here's how I think about it. There are 9330 public schools in Texas. We can pay to have trained personnel at every school, some schools would need one, some would need 2, maybe 3. Most small schools would need one. On average, let's say there are double the amount trained personnel than schools, so 18,660 trained officers. Pay them about 65,000 a year, would be $1.2 Billion in funds. Provide them a quality AR-15 and optic, about $1500 each, and gear, of about another $500 or so. That's about $37 Million. Total, that's about $1.25 Billion for Texas to pay to have multiple armed and trained personnel on site at every Texas public school. You could cut down the response time and have a show of force already there. It turns a soft target location into hard target location and should decrease the attempts of school shootings. Why can't we push for something like this!!??



Being in the field, your numbers are way to low

Policing can't attract good help these days and it paying more than that. It's going to have to pay better to get good help

Re: 14 minute response time?? [Re: Brother in-law] #8825583 03/29/23 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Brother in-law
Originally Posted by ChadTRG42
14 minutes, I guess that's not too bad, and they stopped the threat. Here's how I think about it. There are 9330 public schools in Texas. We can pay to have trained personnel at every school, some schools would need one, some would need 2, maybe 3. Most small schools would need one. On average, let's say there are double the amount trained personnel than schools, so 18,660 trained officers. Pay them about 65,000 a year, would be $1.2 Billion in funds. Provide them a quality AR-15 and optic, about $1500 each, and gear, of about another $500 or so. That's about $37 Million. Total, that's about $1.25 Billion for Texas to pay to have multiple armed and trained personnel on site at every Texas public school. You could cut down the response time and have a show of force already there. It turns a soft target location into hard target location and should decrease the attempts of school shootings. Why can't we push for something like this!!??



Being in the field, your numbers are way to low

Policing can't attract good help these days and it paying more than that. It's going to have to pay better to get good help


I'm not in the field, but I would guess this would be sought after job for a police officer, no? No dealing with the normal degenerates that police have to, and a 99.99% chance you will never get shot at. Is that not the case?

Re: 14 minute response time?? [Re: Buzzsaw] #8825610 03/29/23 06:51 PM
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Heh. You wouldn't even need to pay armed guards. I sent a letter to my kid's ISD offering to volunteer as armed plainclothes security one day a week, and pointed out that the ISD would probably get all the volunteers they needed from the parents and fmailies of the kids. There's enough combat veterans in the communities that it should be easy to get enough qualified volunteers who know what to do to a POS school shooter.

Oh, the response from the ISD? Crickets.


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Re: 14 minute response time?? [Re: Buzzsaw] #8825621 03/29/23 07:12 PM
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I'm all in favor of allowing teachers to be armed, but realize that many won't do it. Even the teachers who are willing to keep a firearm in their desk likely won't be doing a lot of training and, as Mike Tyson supposedly once said, "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth".
I was in the Army, including a year in Vietnam. A lot of guys, including me, thought they'd be pretty tough when the shooting started. Then the shooting started. When the bullets start flying a lot of people react defensively. Believing that every teacher with a gun will suddenly become a Danger Ranger is not realistic. I think the best strategy for a teacher would be to stuff a kid's sneaker under the door to make it hard to open, then put the kids in one corner with the teacher in another location ready to shoot through the door if a bad guy tries to enter. Expecting teachers to leave their classroom and hunt down an active shooter is asking a lot.


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Re: 14 minute response time?? [Re: der Teufel] #8825623 03/29/23 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by der Teufel
as Mike Tyson supposedly once said, "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth".


LOL! True. How many read that, and heard it in Mike Tyson's voice!!


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Re: 14 minute response time?? [Re: bigbob_ftw] #8825628 03/29/23 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by bigbob_ftw
Originally Posted by SherpaPhil
Originally Posted by gtrich94
Originally Posted by ChadTRG42
14 minutes, I guess that's not too bad, and they stopped the threat. Here's how I think about it. There are 9330 public schools in Texas. We can pay to have trained personnel at every school, some schools would need one, some would need 2, maybe 3. Most small schools would need one. On average, let's say there are double the amount trained personnel than schools, so 18,660 trained officers. Pay them about 65,000 a year, would be $1.2 Billion in funds. Provide them a quality AR-15 and optic, about $1500 each, and gear, of about another $500 or so. That's about $37 Million. Total, that's about $1.25 Billion for Texas to pay to have multiple armed and trained personnel on site at every Texas public school. You could cut down the response time and have a show of force already there. It turns a soft target location into hard target location and should decrease the attempts of school shootings. Why can't we push for something like this!!??


I like what you are proposing, but your numbers are way low. You are going to need a minimum of 2 officers at every small school to cover things like vacations, sick time, Dr's appt's, the training you expect them to have ... Large high schools and middle schools will need even more because the campus is larger and someone would need to cover the sporting events that occur after school (unless you are expecting the SRO's to work from 6AM to 9-10PM when after school activities end and also pretty much every Saturday). So in reality, you are probably talking about needing an amount of SRO's that's 4x the number of schools. You will then probably need another 25% on top of that number for admin/management staff to support all those new officers. Add to that the facilities that will need to be built to support all of this, transportation for all of this, extra guns/ammo that will be needed to cover training, normal breakage/wear-and-tear ... Some of those things may already exist, and maybe you can re-purpose the existing SRO staff, but a lot of it will be new. The last thing I would add is that 65K a year is only the SRO's salary. When you add in the benefits package, a 65K salaried employee is probably closer to 90K. Then you have to remember that this is not a 1 time cost. So at a minimum on the people side, you have now added a large re-occurring cost that will only go up every year as wages/benefits increase. Lastly, this would have to be state funded because you aren't going to get every single school district to pass the property tax increase to fund it. So to throw out some numbers, 9330 schools, 37K SRO's, 9K administration, 90K per person = 4.1B for salary/benefit costs. Then you will need to add all the training/equipment/facility/transportation costs and you are probably closer to 5.5-6B per year, every year.

Like I said, I like the idea, but it's not a small cost for the state of Texas to pick up (you won't get federal funds for this).


I think your numbers are probably more realistic, and it is a significant expenditure, but what is more important than keeping kids safe at school? Surely we could do some trimming in the $127B state budget to find the funds for this.


I thought the lottery was supposed to support the schools in Texas.


roflmao

A lot of times when I buy my lottery tickets, I tell the gals that I am donating again to the crooked politicians fund, kids don't need an edumakation nuts

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Re: 14 minute response time?? [Re: SherpaPhil] #8825629 03/29/23 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by SherpaPhil
Originally Posted by Brother in-law
Originally Posted by ChadTRG42
14 minutes, I guess that's not too bad, and they stopped the threat. Here's how I think about it. There are 9330 public schools in Texas. We can pay to have trained personnel at every school, some schools would need one, some would need 2, maybe 3. Most small schools would need one. On average, let's say there are double the amount trained personnel than schools, so 18,660 trained officers. Pay them about 65,000 a year, would be $1.2 Billion in funds. Provide them a quality AR-15 and optic, about $1500 each, and gear, of about another $500 or so. That's about $37 Million. Total, that's about $1.25 Billion for Texas to pay to have multiple armed and trained personnel on site at every Texas public school. You could cut down the response time and have a show of force already there. It turns a soft target location into hard target location and should decrease the attempts of school shootings. Why can't we push for something like this!!??



Being in the field, your numbers are way to low

Policing can't attract good help these days and it paying more than that. It's going to have to pay better to get good help


I'm not in the field, but I would guess this would be sought after job for a police officer, no? No dealing with the normal degenerates that police have to, and a 99.99% chance you will never get shot at. Is that not the case?



It's probably 50/50 appealing. A little slow for most

Re: 14 minute response time?? [Re: SherpaPhil] #8825639 03/29/23 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by SherpaPhil
Originally Posted by Brother in-law
Originally Posted by ChadTRG42
14 minutes, I guess that's not too bad, and they stopped the threat. Here's how I think about it. There are 9330 public schools in Texas. We can pay to have trained personnel at every school, some schools would need one, some would need 2, maybe 3. Most small schools would need one. On average, let's say there are double the amount trained personnel than schools, so 18,660 trained officers. Pay them about 65,000 a year, would be $1.2 Billion in funds. Provide them a quality AR-15 and optic, about $1500 each, and gear, of about another $500 or so. That's about $37 Million. Total, that's about $1.25 Billion for Texas to pay to have multiple armed and trained personnel on site at every Texas public school. You could cut down the response time and have a show of force already there. It turns a soft target location into hard target location and should decrease the attempts of school shootings. Why can't we push for something like this!!??



Being in the field, your numbers are way to low

Policing can't attract good help these days and it paying more than that. It's going to have to pay better to get good help


I'm not in the field, but I would guess this would be sought after job for a police officer, no? No dealing with the normal degenerates that police have to, and a 99.99% chance you will never get shot at. Is that not the case?


No it’s not considered a highly sought after position.

Re: 14 minute response time?? [Re: ntxtrapper] #8825641 03/29/23 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ntxtrapper
Originally Posted by SherpaPhil
Originally Posted by Brother in-law
Originally Posted by ChadTRG42
14 minutes, I guess that's not too bad, and they stopped the threat. Here's how I think about it. There are 9330 public schools in Texas. We can pay to have trained personnel at every school, some schools would need one, some would need 2, maybe 3. Most small schools would need one. On average, let's say there are double the amount trained personnel than schools, so 18,660 trained officers. Pay them about 65,000 a year, would be $1.2 Billion in funds. Provide them a quality AR-15 and optic, about $1500 each, and gear, of about another $500 or so. That's about $37 Million. Total, that's about $1.25 Billion for Texas to pay to have multiple armed and trained personnel on site at every Texas public school. You could cut down the response time and have a show of force already there. It turns a soft target location into hard target location and should decrease the attempts of school shootings. Why can't we push for something like this!!??



Being in the field, your numbers are way to low

Policing can't attract good help these days and it paying more than that. It's going to have to pay better to get good help


I'm not in the field, but I would guess this would be sought after job for a police officer, no? No dealing with the normal degenerates that police have to, and a 99.99% chance you will never get shot at. Is that not the case?


No it’s not considered a highly sought after position.



Friend of mine is an SRO at a metroplex high school. He told me in 3 years, he's had more felony arrests than he did for 16 years on patrol.

He showed me his body cam video of a 17 year old that threatened someone with a knife, then ran through the school. He and the second SRO got the kid cornered and disarmed. Kid had a 6" kitchen knife.

And drugs abound as well.


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Re: 14 minute response time?? [Re: Brother in-law] #8825642 03/29/23 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Brother in-law
Originally Posted by SherpaPhil
Originally Posted by Brother in-law
Originally Posted by ChadTRG42
14 minutes, I guess that's not too bad, and they stopped the threat. Here's how I think about it. There are 9330 public schools in Texas. We can pay to have trained personnel at every school, some schools would need one, some would need 2, maybe 3. Most small schools would need one. On average, let's say there are double the amount trained personnel than schools, so 18,660 trained officers. Pay them about 65,000 a year, would be $1.2 Billion in funds. Provide them a quality AR-15 and optic, about $1500 each, and gear, of about another $500 or so. That's about $37 Million. Total, that's about $1.25 Billion for Texas to pay to have multiple armed and trained personnel on site at every Texas public school. You could cut down the response time and have a show of force already there. It turns a soft target location into hard target location and should decrease the attempts of school shootings. Why can't we push for something like this!!??



Being in the field, your numbers are way to low

Policing can't attract good help these days and it paying more than that. It's going to have to pay better to get good help


I'm not in the field, but I would guess this would be sought after job for a police officer, no? No dealing with the normal degenerates that police have to, and a 99.99% chance you will never get shot at. Is that not the case?



It's probably 50/50 appealing. A little slow for most


That makes sense.

Re: 14 minute response time?? [Re: Buzzsaw] #8825652 03/29/23 08:20 PM
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School's should be mandated by the state to have armed security, or a resource officer. Feds should stay out of it due to their 100% record of screwing everything they touch up. In the day's of multi million dollar sports stadiums and waste all over the place, Im sure they could find the money, even if some crt, trans gay acceptance, or some other nonsense class has to be cut. Also, all for teachers being armed. On a willingness to train and do so. They are already in the fight whether they want to be or not, should it happen at their school.

Re: 14 minute response time?? [Re: Buzzsaw] #8825665 03/29/23 08:50 PM
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But we don't want the school to look like a prison!

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Do not forget to entertain strangers, For by so doing some have unwittingly entertained angels
Hebrews 13:2
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Re: 14 minute response time?? [Re: J.G.] #8825729 03/29/23 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by J.G.[/quote



Friend of mine is an SRO at a metroplex high school. He told me in 3 years, he's had more felony arrests than he did for 16 years on patrol.

He showed me his body cam video of a 17 year old that threatened someone with a knife, then ran through the school. He and the second SRO got the kid cornered and disarmed. Kid had a 6" kitchen knife.

And drugs abound as well.


Patrol answers calls so that’s not uncommon. Compared to a self initiated field unit, both patrol and SRO arrests are minimal.

Re: 14 minute response time?? [Re: Paluxy] #8825822 03/30/23 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Paluxy
Texas has a program
https://www.tcole.texas.gov/content/school-marshals

Not enough are using it
https://www.texastribune.org/2022/06/07/texas-school-marshal-program/
Quote
Since Texas launched the school marshal program in 2013, just 84 school districts out of more than 1,200 have armed school staff. Educators say the program’s lack of popularity shows that teachers don’t want to be the ones to defend schools from mass shootings.


Plus side to the Marshall plan is it does not have to be teachers it can be anyone board approves that passes tcole requirements

And unlike the guardian program that is really not monitored at least the Marshall program has a lot of requirements that must be met and then govt picks up a lot of cost for it


i am cancelling my subscription, i am tired of your issues!
Re: 14 minute response time?? [Re: J.G.] #8825858 03/30/23 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by J.G.
Originally Posted by Buzzsaw
GREAT answers !!

I know it will freak students out to see men and women dressed in full battle armored uniforms with fully auto M6's, he77 maybe a S.A.W. (kinda heavy). But when these soldiers are nice and talk to the kids like they are just normal police, the kids AND teachers will feel much safer.


Been saying this for years. If I was one guarding the school, I'd work very hard to make sure staff and students were at ease, and glad I was there. Have fun with the kids, heckle them in the halls, make them laugh and smile every day.

love this


SPACE FOR RENT


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