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Cattle ranchers and gov't subsidies
#8815214
03/09/23 04:41 PM
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 3,769
Wytex
OP
Extreme Tracker
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OP
Extreme Tracker
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 3,769 |
So having a discussion on a trapping thread with a guy form Kansas. He is adamant that LO's should not charge folks for access, either hunting or trapping, he calls it a tax. He also is stating that most of not all cattle folks and farmers get gov't subsidies. If you don't you're a liar in his opinion, he has stated that openly on the forum. What are your thoughts on this? I under stand some will not agree with my views posted and I take that. Curious to the great cattle folks on here what they think , I know what my BIL would say to him and the friend who granted us hog hunting access. Link to the thread: https://trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/7816622#Post7816622
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Re: Cattle ranchers and gov't subsidies
[Re: Wytex]
#8815219
03/09/23 04:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 15,410
reeltexan
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 15,410 |
He should get in. Then let us know what he thinks from the inside.
"Give me an Army of West Point graduates and I'll win a battle... Give me a handful of Texas Aggies and I'll win a war." - General Patton
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Re: Cattle ranchers and gov't subsidies
[Re: Wytex]
#8815227
03/09/23 05:11 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,687
SherpaPhil
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,687 |
1. He doesn't understand what "tax" means. 2. Many, many farmers and ranchers get government subsidies, either directly or indirectly. Many may not even realize it. That is not the same thing as all.
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Re: Cattle ranchers and gov't subsidies
[Re: Wytex]
#8815237
03/09/23 05:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 19,638
Pitchfork Predator
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 19,638 |
Subsidies can only be given from entities that create wealth or have wealth of their own….. the government takes wealth from others and redistributes it……avoiding tax is not a subsidy….
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Re: Cattle ranchers and gov't subsidies
[Re: Wytex]
#8815242
03/09/23 05:32 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 24,262
dkershen
Rev Dave
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Rev Dave
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 24,262 |
It's obvious Clifton and his buddies in that thread don't own land. They are probably card carrying democrats as well.
The reality is that there are more predator/hog hunters than there are ranches that need predator or hog control. This creates demand, and demand is typically capitalized on in a free market.
Some ranchers will give free access to control hogs or predators, which is their prerogative. But I see nothing wrong with a rancher charging for a coyote or hog hunt.
As far as ranching subsidies go... they are mixing apples and oranges here. They enjoy affordable beef and produce at grocery stores or restaurants. That's were they are getting their tax dollars paid back to them. Requiring access to a farmer or ranchers land because they get subsidies is asinine.
To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target.www.NewHopeEquine.com - Health and Healing through Horses.
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Re: Cattle ranchers and gov't subsidies
[Re: Wytex]
#8815247
03/09/23 05:41 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 19,698
TurkeyHunter
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 19,698 |
"Have Nots" jealous of "Haves"
To be determined
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Re: Cattle ranchers and gov't subsidies
[Re: Wytex]
#8815308
03/09/23 07:11 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,273
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,273 |
So having a discussion on a trapping thread with a guy form Kansas. He is adamant that LO's should not charge folks for access, either hunting or trapping, he calls it a tax. He also is stating that most of not all cattle folks and farmers get gov't subsidies. If you don't you're a liar in his opinion, he has stated that openly on the forum. What are your thoughts on this? I under stand some will not agree with my views posted and I take that. Curious to the great cattle folks on here what they think , I know what my BIL would say to him and the friend who granted us hog hunting access. Link to the thread: https://trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/7816622#Post7816622he just wanting to essentially free load and really has no financial argument as you know, most cattle ranchers dont get a federal sub unless they have taken advantage of the drought insurance program. They still pay for the insurance but the premium is subbed to a small degree. Now if his state has a Land owner tag system that is essentially a depredation tag he has a tiny degree of a valid argument if its a Ranch only tag. Unit wide has has no argument, as that is for damage that happened out side of state seasons. Now alternative is LO HF’s and cuts out all that winter habitat and additional carrying capacity, essentially lowering overall migratory game animals numbers. He would be first to scream about it. as far as farming the Sub program comes out to about $60 a person a year cost wise. If corn followed inflation it would be double the cost. most family’s currently spend 5k a year on food. Does he not think $60 vs and additional 5k is worth it? Probably not he just wants to hunt someones property for free.
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Re: Cattle ranchers and gov't subsidies
[Re: Wytex]
#8815327
03/09/23 07:30 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,146
2000cbr929
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,146 |
Well... I can tell you other than Ag Exemption I get no subsidies from Uncle Sam or Uncle Abbott for my cow calf operation. In fact I have to have a real job to help support it. This dude is an idiot. I would never grant permission or even take a dollar to permit some of these people to hunt my place.
After eating Payne's sausage I don't know if I can go back to the regular store bought stuff. "Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, and more money" Tom T Hall
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Re: Cattle ranchers and gov't subsidies
[Re: Wytex]
#8815331
03/09/23 07:37 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,945
Stompy
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,945 |
I'm a rancher and he's an idiot. I occasionally get something but it's not much, and it has to be a disaster to get it. I got a little drought check last year, but no way it came close to covering the high cost of hay and feed. If you're a cattle rancher it's because you enjoy it. Not much money to be made in the cattle business, especially if you're leasing pastures.
Last edited by Stompy; 03/09/23 07:37 PM.
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Re: Cattle ranchers and gov't subsidies
[Re: Wytex]
#8815336
03/09/23 07:42 PM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,203
Ramsey
Pepe' Le Pew
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Pepe' Le Pew
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,203 |
Ask the guy from Kansas if his wife ever used pkanned parenthood!!
Big Beckett!!
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Re: Cattle ranchers and gov't subsidies
[Re: Wytex]
#8815339
03/09/23 07:48 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,265
maximus_flavius
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,265 |
Why are you listening to a guy from Nebraska’s opinion on Texas matters?
BTW- he’s an idiot
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Re: Cattle ranchers and gov't subsidies
[Re: Wytex]
#8815340
03/09/23 07:48 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,273
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,273 |
I really wish I hadnt actually read his replies, he is an idiot.
He didnt even read his own links.
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Re: Cattle ranchers and gov't subsidies
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#8815360
03/09/23 08:38 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,331
Duck_Hunter
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,331 |
I really wish I hadnt actually read his replies, he is an idiot. Same
I just turned it on . I was looking bird dogs in the butt this morning.
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Re: Cattle ranchers and gov't subsidies
[Re: Duck_Hunter]
#8815366
03/09/23 08:57 PM
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Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 8,290
Herbie Hancock
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 8,290 |
I really wish I hadnt actually read his replies, he is an idiot. Same x3
It takes beer to make thirst worthwhile - J. Fred Schmidt
The internet is an I.Q. Test, people post their scores in the comment section.
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Re: Cattle ranchers and gov't subsidies
[Re: Wytex]
#8815392
03/09/23 09:31 PM
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Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,556
Texas452
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,556 |
Where do we sign up? I’ve been in the cattle business for 40+ years and never received my subsidies.
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Re: Cattle ranchers and gov't subsidies
[Re: Wytex]
#8815395
03/09/23 09:33 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 6,695
Cochise
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 6,695 |
We do a lot of O&G business in KS and I can tell you that all them folks up there are pretty damn odd characters.
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Re: Cattle ranchers and gov't subsidies
[Re: Wytex]
#8815404
03/09/23 09:46 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,514
retfuz
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,514 |
Just another Democrat - commie wanting free what someone else worked for, earned, and paid for. . It never changes.
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Re: Cattle ranchers and gov't subsidies
[Re: Wytex]
#8815418
03/09/23 10:12 PM
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 3,769
Wytex
OP
Extreme Tracker
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OP
Extreme Tracker
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 3,769 |
Thank you for the responses folks. I would ask lets not start name calling but address his ideals maybe.
I get part of what he says, folks getting gov't money for animal damage and then charging for access but most states do not allow payments for those damages unless the LO takes measures to counter act by hunting and/or trapping predators. He seems to think they are handing out money right and left and LOs are making double off a "problem". I just don't see or hear of that happening really.
Anyway, I was pretty certain the gov't subs part was BS. And even if farmers take them, it puts food in our homes. I don't know 1 farmer that does not work hard, same for cattle. I don't think all subsidies are welfare as he calls it either.
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Re: Cattle ranchers and gov't subsidies
[Re: Wytex]
#8815421
03/09/23 10:18 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,256
Dave Davidson
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,256 |
I’m a rural landowner but pay property taxes, fix fences, etc. Got rid of the cows. In the 38 years I’ve owned the place, I’ve never gotten a guv check for anything. Nor has anybody else I know. I do get a lowered tax rate for having a wildlife exemption.
Without a sense of urgency, nothing ever happens.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley, Rancher Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Re: Cattle ranchers and gov't subsidies
[Re: Wytex]
#8815423
03/09/23 10:19 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 18,546
ducknbass
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 18,546 |
I try not to deal with idiots. I would steer clear
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Re: Cattle ranchers and gov't subsidies
[Re: Stompy]
#8815485
03/10/23 12:50 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,483
splash556
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,483 |
Well... I can tell you other than Ag Exemption I get no subsidies from Uncle Sam or Uncle Abbott for my cow calf operation. In fact I have to have a real job to help support it. This dude is an idiot. I would never grant permission or even take a dollar to permit some of these people to hunt my place. I'm a rancher and he's an idiot. I occasionally get something but it's not much, and it has to be a disaster to get it. I got a little drought check last year, but no way it came close to covering the high cost of hay and feed. If you're a cattle rancher it's because you enjoy it. Not much money to be made in the cattle business, especially if you're leasing pastures. Yep. What they said. ^^^^^ Except I don't occasionally get anything. At least not yet.
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Re: Cattle ranchers and gov't subsidies
[Re: Wytex]
#8815489
03/10/23 12:56 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,273
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,273 |
Thank you for the responses folks. I would ask lets not start name calling but address his ideals maybe.
I get part of what he says, folks getting gov't money for animal damage and then charging for access but most states do not allow payments for those damages unless the LO takes measures to counter act by hunting and/or trapping predators. He seems to think they are handing out money right and left and LOs are making double off a "problem". I just don't see or hear of that happening really.
Anyway, I was pretty certain the gov't subs part was BS. And even if farmers take them, it puts food in our homes. I don't know 1 farmer that does not work hard, same for cattle. I don't think all subsidies are welfare as he calls it either. you have to remember most people only see a total dollar number not an individual per acre number , on top of that they dont understand that vast majority of the farm bill to producers(cattle/farm) are disaster insurance payouts that those individuals actually paid into the program every year regardless if they have a claim on insurance. Farming/ranching side of the farm program ROI to individual Americans is about 700% he is projecting at something he doesnt have the capacity or want to understand he just wants free hunting. personally it’s people like him that make me want to see the farm program go away and his [censored] can either pay food prices inline with historical inflation or buy non-USDA oversight sourced food from Malayisa, china etc. Let corporate farming run the world.
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Re: Cattle ranchers and gov't subsidies
[Re: Wytex]
#8815509
03/10/23 01:21 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 11,914
ntxtrapper
THF Celebrity
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Posts: 11,914 |
Typical bunch of Yankees. Wanting something for nothing.
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Re: Cattle ranchers and gov't subsidies
[Re: Wytex]
#8815551
03/10/23 02:16 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,658
GusWayne
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,658 |
I am married into the only legit...actually try to part time it farmers..Her dad has a full time job on top of this...just his way of life
400 acres, 100 head...yeah they do get some help but dam if you want some come get some is all I can say
Getting some is open to all, help yourself...
My wife was obviously there before me but she has sworn off trying to make it raising cattle and wheat, its 1 of a few things that trigger her
She watched her dad for too long do it...but that ole boy is welcome to do his own..
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Re: Cattle ranchers and gov't subsidies
[Re: Wytex]
#8815847
03/10/23 05:28 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 15,612
QuitShootinYoungBucks
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 15,612 |
I got a really nice check for drought relief last year. I easily spent 3x that check just in feed, maybe a lot more than that. He's an idiot.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170223065011/http:/www.rrdvegas.com/silencer-cleaning.html
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