I am this __ close to throwing this damn thing in the closest body of water that I can find.

AGM Varmint TS35 384 LRF. At 25 yards, it wasn't even on paper (sack of corn). Finally found out that it was shooting high. Was able to track the scope down and get it somewhat close at 25 yards.

I moved back to 100 yards and the scope is still 10-12" high. I was able to move the scope down further, but ran out of Y adjustment. And now the damn thing is still 4" high. Also, looking through the scope, I noticed that the reticle is fixed to the top portion of the screen.

The scope is mounted to a Christensen CA5five6 FFT that is grouping really well. I made sure to use the same reticle, "saving the parameters" each time I adjusted it, and used 3x exclusively. The directions are a joke.. I think AGM subcontracted a 12 year old to prepare the manual.

What the heck am I doing wrong? Better yet, any AGM experts in the DFW to Weatherford to Cisco/Breckinridge area that are willing to take a look? I'd love to buy you lunch and a beer!!

Have you tried resetting to factory defaults and a firmware update? I assume the pic rail on your rifle is known good?

Yes, I did restore factory defaults, but did not check for firmware updates.

Rifle is brand new so I would assume that the pic rail is fine. But wouldn't know how to check this?

The only reason I suggest checking the rail is that such a high point of impact suggests a mount/rail/rings check. Maybe mount a scope or red dot and fire a shot or two at 25 as a sanity check? I had to reread the manual for my Rattler clip on to get things right, but I was never off paper, etc. Personally, I’d confirm the firmware version first and reread the manual. If there’s no update, I’d do a quick red dot test, just in case you have a 30 moa rail, or something unexpected.

Maybe you can make some kind of determination by putting a conventional scope on it and sighting it in. If you have to run the elevation way down to get it on target, it may tell you something. That would be easier, I think, than verifying the thermal on another rifle.

Is there any possibility the mount is not properly attached to the thermal?

Is it a 20moa rail and the thermal doesn’t have enough internal adjustment to correct?

As far as I know, its a standard pic rail on a new, out of the box AR15.

Yes, Y value was down as far as it would go at -156.

Happy birthday by the way!!

I feel yo' pain!

Recently spent way, way too much on a rifle. The scope that came with it does not have the windage to get to the bull @ 100.

Very frustrating!

ya!

GWB

You said the rifle is grouping well so I assume scoped previously. Yup, check the mount. Burr on the rail or mount.

It groups well with the thermal, just too high with no adjustment left.

So it does not sound like you have had another scope on the rifle and so you don't know that the rifle isn't the issue, or part of the issue.

I know we all want to believe that rails are expertly aligned with the barrel, but that isn't always the case. River Rider's suggestion to put on a conventional scope may be quite revealing. You may be able to determine the fault isn't with the rails if another optic works fine on it (and not adjusted WAY over on a given axis to make it happen). I (and RR, I think) am just trying to keep you from having to send your scope back if it isn't a scope issue. Sometimes the barrel and rail do not align well.

The opposite is also true. While they are supposed to be properly aligned with their mounts, sometimes scopes are a tad off from their mounts (or vice versa, depending on how you see it).

I have put on two of the same model of scope on the same rifle back to back and one needed about 4 moa windage and 2 moa elevation to be zeroed. The other was 22 and 8. Go figure.

The other possibility is that the rifle is a bit off and the scope is a bit off in the same manner and so their errors are cumulative (versus cancelling) and so they are incompatible as a result.

I know nothing about thermals and was there for this exercise. Reeder is right to say the instructions are vague and poorly written. The rifle did group well, and first shot windage was perfect and held true until barrel heated up. Even then windage was never an issue. It does have a setting for different distances to sight in for. It also has a bore sight step that we skipped before we started adjusting it down, since we knew what we needed to do to get it on target.

Would this work: Reset to factory. Set up in a shooting vise. Install a laser cartridge and get the laser on target at 50 yards. Manipulate the reticle to zero. ?Someone that knows this make and model inside and out could probably tell us what step we missed.

Sorry... I should have specified that. I took the rifle out of the box and put the thermal on. Two-three shots were proving a "group" so I know the error wasn't on my shooting abilities for once!!




Thanks for clarifying this DNS. I was having a hard time pinning it to this rifle, but it could be the case.

I'll get this crap figured out about the time its too hot to hunt!!!

Just to add to what DNS said....I put a new upper on an AR lower a few weeks ago and I'd had this upper in my safe for 2 years and never shot it. I put the rifle together and threw a new thermal on it and went to zero it. I was shooting 20" to the right at 50 yards. Grouping fine but 20" right. I couldn't believe it. I took the scope off the rifle, took the mount off the scope, remounted it to ensure all was good and shot again to find the exact same thing was happening. Changed ammo....same thing.

I then went and grabbed another known good scope and put it on the rifle and shot it.....sure enough 18" right. So what I have is, a brand spanking new upper that is shooting 18" to 20" right at 50 yards. I put the scope on a known good rifle and it was 3" off on the first shot.

The point is, don't always just blame the scope or any one piece of the equipment. Check the rifle, the ammo and the scope all independently and you'll eventually find the issue. If it is the scope, then it's likely not collimated correctly and needs to be replaced. But before you can know for sure you've got to 100% rule out the rifle and ammo.

Good luck!

Jason

Gosh Jason, I sure hope that’s not the case. I’ll try another rifle in a last ditch effort before dealing with the return madness.

Thanks to all for the replies!!

Let us know what you find out!

There is NO (QCd) spec on barrel centerline and rail centerline for ARs. May have to shim the mount. Like cola can shim under the back of the mount. Windage is tougher depending on the mount.

And the OP was last seen here more than 2 weeks ago with no word on how things turned out.

Apologies... I took the rifle/optic combo to a local gunshop - gun smith that sells thermals. They offer a site-in service, which I bought. Supposedly, it is sighted in for 2" low at 25 yards but I have not verified that. Had a lil spill with Pnuemony which landed me a week in the hospital.

Hope to verify soon.

Sounds like user error.

I am curious about the sight-in service. A buddy of mine used to be a local gunsmith and his job was about 90% of what he called "gunsmithing light" which involved things like cleaning guns, adding buttstocks, scoping mounting, bore sighting, and range sighting (customer pays for employee time at the range and covers ammo). So was this bore sighted or did he actually fire it and get a real zero?

This op is not an idiot and he also had another shooter check it as well. Something is off
So all the experts need not be Richard’s

I gave him a box of the ammo that I wanted to use. There was 6 missing upon picking it up. Who knows if he simply bore sighted with a laser threw the ammo away? The shop has a 25 yard indoor range.

Hope to check things out this weekend!

Not ruling that out... But thanks for 'fluffing' your post count with such a worthless response.