I am pretty embarrassed I have waited so long to get to this but just in case anyone here is familiar with the old style Savages, I need words of experience.

Background: Rifle in .222 Remington bought new in around 1960 by a great uncle. It was eventually passed down to my dad. Someone, likely local to Grayson County, took a bit of the wood off for a side scope mount and installed a Weaver K4. Fast forward to a couple years ago when I got my hands on some dies and brass to make ammo for it. Trying to settle on what the gun liked most with what I had available I took it out for some load development. What I noticed was a weird sound upon firing (usually), cratered primers, hard to close bolt, even harder to open ... usually.

Looking closer it seems someone may have ground the bolt handle to make it close easier (the country way) making me think it's always been this way, built this way. I first thought it might have too tight of headspace but before I buy tools to take the barrel loose I thought I'd ask. Bad part is I cannot find the spent brass I loaded that has the cratered primers. I do have three fired cases from the rifle, some VERY old OEM ammo still factory loaded, and brass/dies/bullets (that are almost right but should work). Mr. Jones has not been with us for years so I cannot ask him if the rifle always had trouble.

Going off my notes the loads were ... loaded on 2-20-2016

Trim length 1.690"
Hornady 55 grain "ballistic tip" flat base with cannelure (Midway branded seconds).
OAL 2.160"
H335 in 24.0/24.3/24.6 grains

According to current online load data I built them a tad long (2.13" current spec) but a little hot (max recommended is 23.0 grains). Still, the bolt is hard to close (usually) on OEM ammo, hard to open on OEM ammo after firing (usually) but I do not remember the primer being cratered on the OEM ammo (been a while). I would not have gone 7% over max (I don't think) so my guess is the load data has been modified ... or ... ?

I am not looking load data as much as where to look on the rifle. I can always back off to 22 grains and work up. But the rifle doesn't know how much powder is loaded until it fires.

I can take pics and post them if you want to see something specific. I have the scope off and the action out of the stock. Dad wants to use it on coyotes, etc.

Thanks...

Oh...and I colored an OEM case neck with a sharpie and chambered it then ejected it and the ink was wiped off all the way around where the shoulder meets the body.

A free possible solution is to scrub the throat of the barrel. The carbon ring can build up and effectively make your throat shorter. I had to do this on a customer's rifle recently. I soaked a patch in barrel cleaning solvent and let it sit in the throat for 30 minutes. Then, leaving the throat wet, I rotated a bronze brush in the throat. It is the only time I will put a bronze brush in a barrel. Follow that with clean patches. And then repeat the process for a second time.

If you do not have head space gauges, get them. The 5 piece Hornady kit is invaluable. Measure fired brass, on the shoulder, and then set your sizing die to bump the shoulders .002". If your die will not do that, I have put one FL sizing die in the lathe and took about .005" off the die, to make it shorter.

The brass shoulder is jamming into the chamber.

Or, your bullet is jamming into rifling.

Sizing brass shorter would fix the brass shoulder problem.

Using the cut neck brass method and finding rifling will tell you where to load your CBTO length. Cartridge Base To Ogive. O.A.L. is not the best way to load ammo length.

I don't see anything yucky in the barrel but while I am soaking the chamber, let me ask about the rest of your answer.

I am looking for the Hornady kit you mention. Is kit # HK66 with the comparator and five bushings what I need if a dirty chamber is not the issue? Link to Hornday --->
CLICK HERE

Yes, I think the shoulder is jamming into the chamber as judged by the Sharpie marks. I don't see anything on the OEM loaded round's bullet that makes me think it's jamming the rifling but it wouldn't take much to raise the pressure and it wouldn't necessarily mark the jacket on the softpoint bullet. I am guessing I can likely make a small adjustment to the shoulder (with the new tools to tell me what to do) on the brass and leave the headspace alone?

Pics coming of Sharpie case and what looks like a modified bolt handle.

Correct Hornady kit.

I think you misspoke.

The gauges are in fact for adjusting head space. I think you meant not adjusting bullet seating depth.

Yeah I am coRnfused because I am thinking about too many things at once. I'll get the measuring tools first but then will likely still have to get the tools to work on the barrel...and because it's so old, the barrel nut is different than today's Savage nut.

Yup, that datum line with no Sharpie mark says to me the datum line is tight in the chamber. Measure to the shoulder and make your FL sizing die drive the shoulder back .002" and then chamber A BRASS ONLY!

If that chambers smooth, you have corrected any brass issue.

If a sized brass then loaded into finished ammo is tight to chamber, then you have a bullet jamming in rifling.



Pieces of brass, with the necks cut longitudinally, for finding rifling. Load long, measure CBTO, write it down, chamber it, eject, measure and write it down. Repeat, until I know what length is even to rifling. Then set the seating die to cause a .003" bullet jump. Ammo length is dictated by the rifle on the bench, not a manual. I'm not loading for SAAMI spec.

If you'll notice, bottom left is your Triple Duece.

Pull the bolt and scrub the throat of the barrel.

After that, see if you can make the ammo fit before thinking about moving the barrel out. That would get into barrel vise, and action wrench. Which would be pricey if you don't already have them.

The barrel vice and action wrench is less than the Hornady stuff but I will probably end up with all of it. Scrubbing hasn't help although the patches were "dirty". I will scrub once more today before re-organizing the bench (cleaning up).

It's the JG and GG show!

Thanks for the replies. I will have to wait a few days to continue the process here.

Shot some very similar vintage Remington ammo recently. Some chambered hard. I would be suspect of the ammo. Like your doing I would clean it well test a piece of new factory ammo if you have it or a go gauge. Also make sure your sizing die is set up correctly. Many on here over the years have had the issue.

The cratered primers I experienced in 2016 were from vintage ammo AND ammo I loaded with once fired brass and the bullet/powder listed in the first post. It's a bummer I can't find those empties although Dad did find the rest of the ladder test ammo I loaded.

I am going to do some measuring on a fired case from that vintage box where the primer looks fine and did not have issues chambering or ejecting. Then I will resize it and measure again. The action is a little easier to open and close and I found out the ground area on the bolt handle is normal. That's a good sign.

Always wanted a 340 in 30-30. Good luck hope you get it up and going.

I thought the chamber and barrel was clean (looks like it from the start) but I'm still getting dark colored cleaning solution. I stopped for a while to mess with dummy rounds and while waiting on the comparator tools, I played with shoulder bump a little. Moved the FL die down a bit (my brass is not fired from this rifle) and got the brass to chamber without a bullet. Then I put in a bullet and now can't chamber the round at all, even with the bullet seated WAY too deep. Simple measurements don't show anything out of spec. The only place where the OEM round is smaller in diameter as at the neck/body junction. The fired brass from another rifle is fatter at the top of the body and the sizing die(s) don't touch that part. Guessing the case has enough flex to just fit until a bullet is seated? I mean, it goes from being slightly stiff with no bullet to impossible to close and has to be fragged open to eject with a bullet seated what seems way too deep. Neck OD match OEM round that chambers. This rifle had/has more than one issue so getting them fixed one at a time will take a bit. More cleaning and waiting on tools to show I guess.

Looks like you got the brass sizing addressed.

You're on the right track, keep cleaning that throat out.

I had a customer's rifle come back, him saying he cleaned the barrel, and bullets are getting lodged in the rifling. His clean, and really clean are not the same. I really cleaned the throat, and viola! His ammo fit again. I loaded it with a .005" bullet jump to begin with. There is only one way a chamber gets smaller. Carbon ring build up.

GasGuzzler, I had to mount a bronze brush on a rod extension, dip in cleaner, and scrub my carbon ring out. I used several cleaners so I can't exactly say which worked best. This took a few days as I soaked it with a mop a few times as well. I had avoided getting a bore scope but finally got one. For $50, it was worth it.

So it's been sitting all day with a wad of recycled cotton fabric soaked in Shooter's Choice Lead Remover Bore Cleaning Solvent in the chamber, muzzle down. It never looked fouled but my eyesight is going quickly before the age of 50.

I am off work for a week but stopped by to get my cheap borescope I use as an auto tech to peer in there after the next whoop a$$ copper brush job.

Still waiting on the Hornady measuring tools. Probably be here Thursday, right as I get what looked clean, clean.

Muzzle down is not what I do for a carbon ring. Your problem is not the entire barrel, but the first 1/4" of it. Rifle level is how I leave them for 30 minutes then bronze brush for many turns. Then clean patches for many turns. Repeat as needed

I have a cheap bore scope I use at work. It transmits via WiFi to my phone. I used it to take this short video that may show nothing useful or may help... tough to get it to focus in there.

Measuring tools came in and I'm still having trouble. I see +0.005" to -0.003". Most in the middle right at zero.

What do those numbers represent?

Fired case and OEM case measure the same to 0.000" with my caliper. Fired case is from the same lot as the remaining OEM I have.

The previously enjoyed cases I have are fired from another rifle and it doesn't seem to matter if I resize them or not. Some are shorter and some longer from the datum tool rest. The dimensions changes on some cases before/after resizing and some do not. Some get longer and some get shorter. Most of the first ones I sized before I ran the die all the way down are shorter 0.015-0.003" than the OEM and OEM fired case. Since I moved the die all the way down, they're all still longer than the OEM and OEM fired case after resizing.

I am doing something drastically wrong or I have an equipment failure.

The die is too long, it's made of mixed parts, or the brass was fired from a rifle with a really fat and long body area of the chamber. I am frustrated thinking I need new brass and new dies.

I have two seat dies. Once RCBS that matches the RCBS size die. One Pacific seat die that matches the Pacific size die (all by appearance). The RCBS size die says it's "RCBS 222 REM F L 75" and the RCBS seat die has a different punch than the
Pacific die. The Pacific size die says it's "222 N PACIFIC B SX". All looks like it makes sense but I have to admit all my centerfire rifles are semi or lever.

I have been using the RCBS size die because of the letters F L mean FULL LENGTH (size) to me.

A couple pages ago, I mentioned having to take a little off the face of a die in the lathe.

Yes, I haven't forgotten. Just updating to show progress. Also showing unexpected and inconsistent results.