texashuntingforum.com logo
Main Menu
Advertisement
Affiliates
Advertisement
Newest Members
rbljack, nate325, Kaleb.mayfield, BantyRooster97, natemoreno
70578 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
dogcatcher 110,645
bill oxner 91,416
SnakeWrangler 64,148
stxranchman 60,286
Gravytrain 46,950
RKHarm24 44,585
rifleman 44,461
BMD 41,241
Forum Statistics
Forums46
Topics616,301
Posts11,413,879
Members85,578
Most Online19,184
Feb 5th, 2020
Print Thread
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Re: Don't condemn your kids to co-ownership. [Re: Creekrunner] #8702117 10/05/22 12:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,179
S
Stompy Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
S
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,179
Hopefully I'll know when to sell my ranch. Not much family, no kids, so I'm not sure what I'm going to do, but I will eventually sell.


www.jaranchhunting.com
Cabin Rentals on the ranch for Hubbard Creek Lake
Re: Don't condemn your kids to co-ownership. [Re: Stompy] #8702121 10/05/22 12:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 29,986
T
txtrophy85 Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
T
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 29,986
Originally Posted by Stompy
Hopefully I'll know when to sell my ranch. Not much family, no kids, so I'm not sure what I'm going to do, but I will eventually sell.


A lot of folks with no heirs leave their property to schools. But, schools have no qualms about selling donated assets so keep that in mind.

I sold a property last year where the landowner donated the entire proceeds of the sale to Texas A&M to be used in their agricultural programs.


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Don't condemn your kids to co-ownership. [Re: txtrophy85] #8702125 10/05/22 12:38 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,179
S
Stompy Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
S
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,179
Originally Posted by txtrophy85
Originally Posted by Stompy
Hopefully I'll know when to sell my ranch. Not much family, no kids, so I'm not sure what I'm going to do, but I will eventually sell.


A lot of folks with no heirs leave their property to schools. But, schools have no qualms about selling donated assets so keep that in mind.

I sold a property last year where the landowner donated the entire proceeds of the sale to Texas A&M to be used in their agricultural programs.


I won't be donating, I worked and sacrificed too much to give it away.


www.jaranchhunting.com
Cabin Rentals on the ranch for Hubbard Creek Lake
Re: Don't condemn your kids to co-ownership. [Re: Creekrunner] #8702240 10/05/22 03:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,555
Txhunter65 Offline
Veteran Tracker
Offline
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,555
Anyone had any experience with a no-contest clause in a will?

Any TXHF attorneys have any words of wisdom regarding no-contest clauses?

I understand it does not keep beneficiaries from contesting but adds a little spice to it if they do.

Re: Don't condemn your kids to co-ownership. [Re: Stompy] #8702246 10/05/22 03:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,555
Txhunter65 Offline
Veteran Tracker
Offline
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,555
Originally Posted by Stompy
Hopefully I'll know when to sell my ranch. Not much family, no kids, so I'm not sure what I'm going to do, but I will eventually sell.

Looks like a beautiful place.

Re: Don't condemn your kids to co-ownership. [Re: Creekrunner] #8702250 10/05/22 03:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,364
D
Dalroo Online Content
Veteran Tracker
Online Content
Veteran Tracker
D
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,364
Over breakfast a year or so ago, I could tell my daughter wanted to ask me something and it was bothering her. Finally she asked if when we pass, would it hurt my feelings knowing she didn't want to live out here in the stix. I told her, no, as a matter of fact, we'll probably sell before you have to worry about it, and I will know when the time is right. Said almost the same thing to her, living out here is our wish, but that doesn't mean it is her's or her brother's.


Dalroo
Deep in the Heart of Texas
How about that Brandon!
Re: Don't condemn your kids to co-ownership. [Re: Creekrunner] #8702309 10/05/22 04:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 279
Uncle Zeek Online Content
Bird Dog
Online Content
Bird Dog
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 279
Originally Posted by Creekrunner
I know there are some on here that have told their children to "never sell this place." I'm not of that opinion. 'Saw this article and thought it might help some, or their children, on here. Our four have been told that either we, or they, WILL sell the place and split the dollars 4 ways equally. The ranch is my dream, not theirs. bolt

>>>Co-ownership


One option that the author left out. Put the property into a trust (whether revocable or irrevocable isn't terribly important), and name a trusted friend as trustee. Your trustee manages the property for the benefit of the kids, and the trust can be flexibly drafted to - for example - tell the trustee to evaluate the interest of grandchildren and select one or more of the grandkids to give the property to, with cash or other value given to the others.

But otherwise yes, I agree with the author's analysis.


"Decency is not news; it is buried in the obituaries --but it is a force stronger than crime" ~ Robert A. Heinlein
190 Civic Circle, Suite 260, Lewisville, TX 75067
972-746-0758 mobile
zac@artimlegal.com
Re: Don't condemn your kids to co-ownership. [Re: Creekrunner] #8711014 10/17/22 05:52 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 265
E
ELKMTB Offline
Bird Dog
Offline
Bird Dog
E
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 265
if you dont want it sold put it in a trust and designate who controls it and how it may be used. Otherwise who cares what they do with it. The problem is who has the cash or credit to purchase any sizeable land from thier siblings if its left to several people.

Re: Don't condemn your kids to co-ownership. [Re: Creekrunner] #8711692 10/18/22 01:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 893
H
huntingbig8 Offline
Tracker
Offline
Tracker
H
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 893
Thanks for the post CreekRunner, that is spot on. Super hard to let go of family land but even harder to keep when you have 5 brothers and sisters that all don't share like goals.

Re: Don't condemn your kids to co-ownership. [Re: Creekrunner] #8711911 10/18/22 04:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,996
E
Eland Slayer Offline
Extreme Tracker
Offline
Extreme Tracker
E
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,996
This is the same reason I STRONGLY recommend that nobody purchase hunting land jointly with a friend or even close family (aka "undivided interest"). If someone wants to purchase raw land with a friend, it's much better to have it physically surveyed and separated into two tracts. You can still treat it and manage it as a single property, but if a conflict arises, it's easy to settle because you each own your separate piece of the property. Even if two friends get along 100% great for decades, eventually those folks will die and leave their interest in the property to someone (typically someone that doesn't have the same goals for the property as the original owner).

Re: Don't condemn your kids to co-ownership. [Re: Creekrunner] #8713156 10/20/22 01:39 AM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 24
T
TxsDirtDad Offline
Light Foot
Offline
Light Foot
T
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 24
Good article and a topic worth consideration.

I spent several decades appraising farm and ranch properties across Texas (I don’t anymore) and many of those were for estates and attorneys. I’ve regularly seen poor estate planning result In a 25-50% loss of net RE proceeds to the heirs, mostly through poor tax strategies, professional fees, and lawsuits to resolve undivided interests. I’ve also seen children of multimillionaires go broke through legal battles fighting each other, ultimately loosing trophy properties.

The best deals I’ve seen subdivide the ranch up into portions of equal value (not size) then convey those separately to heirs. Sometimes that is just not possible so forcing the sale at market value/highest price may be the best choice. Heirs that care tend to get creative and come together to become the buyer, those that don’t care walk with equitable proceeds.

Re: Don't condemn your kids to co-ownership. [Re: Creekrunner] #8714294 10/21/22 05:18 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,855
R
RLoving1 Offline
Veteran Tracker
Offline
Veteran Tracker
R
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,855
My family has land in Oklahoma and my dad is owner of majority of it that brother lives and works it, he has his own holdings separate from dad's. When dad is gone he wants to save the land cause thats all Grandpa wanted! Dad has subsidized they place for years with feed or taxes, implements....whatever. When he's gone the Okie's get north of Red River and south stay south. Fair enough to me I gave my holdings away up there and don't see the need to go up there so best of luck to them. Issue is they have a little help and when dad's gone the help is over. There is still chance Patron recognizes that decides to leave some of Texas to them for future assistance. It's his so free to distribute it how he feels best. I try to focus and handle my business like there is nothing to split. People loose loves one everyday and no inheritance to deal with and live seems to go on.


Brayden (Lazy L's Southern Comfort) you will be missed! You were more than a pet you were my reason to rise and return for many days! You were my rock!
12/26/03-10/25/13
Re: Don't condemn your kids to co-ownership. [Re: Creekrunner] #8718795 10/26/22 07:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 499
F
Fitzwho Offline
Bird Dog
Offline
Bird Dog
F
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 499
Thank goodness my wife is an only child and my daughter is as well. The ranch and other properties were split 3 ways between my mother-in-law and her two sisters. This all happened 15 years ago and there's still a little bad blood between them.

Luckily no one to argue with the wife over her mom's properties. The other sections/properties will have 5 people clamoring over one another for their piece.

Wouldn't mind hitting the lottery and buying the rest of the family out and making the ranch whole again.


Permian_Skullworks on Instagram
Re: Don't condemn your kids to co-ownership. [Re: Creekrunner] #8722021 10/30/22 02:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 127
J
Jstocks Online Content
Woodsman
Online Content
Woodsman
J
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 127
This is a great thread. I’ve personally seen several families with sibling relationships become non restorable after fighting over land. I know personally I have a trust set up for how money gets handled if something happens to me, and I don’t have any property.

My family has property that they don’t want sold and it’s going to be a big headache one day. When people think with their heart and emotions, instead of their mind, the heart will lead you astray. Having such a grip to piece of dirt is honorable, but as things change over time, the place isn’t always what it was when the generations before started it.

There’s no right or wrong answer, but careful thought and prayer needs to be consulted before any decisions are made that are binding. Even for a trust, there’s very few people that can be entrusted to act within the original persons intent for very long without becoming self serving.

Re: Don't condemn your kids to co-ownership. [Re: Creekrunner] #8722112 10/30/22 04:45 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 878
F
freeonfreak Offline
Tracker
Offline
Tracker
F
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 878
Prime example are my friends in Ennis. Father left each kid ~3,300 acres. They’re dream home/ranches overlook each other and yet they refuse to talk to one another. They’re to the point where they’ll call the sheriff’s dept if either one or the cattle cross property lines. Keep in mind, they’re in their 60-70’s in age.


[Linked Image]

Re: Don't condemn your kids to co-ownership. [Re: Creekrunner] #8723066 10/31/22 10:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 24
T
TxsDirtDad Offline
Light Foot
Offline
Light Foot
T
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 24
I don’t think there is a single foolproof answer to this dilemma. My father was a Trustee for several large family trusts who owned substantial Texas ranch properties. Over the years, every one of them had a sibling or relative sue each other and most unloaded the properties and belongings the first minute they could at the worst times possible and at absolute fire sale prices.

I personally know one sibling who, after his dad died, took all his father’s game mounts and trophy’s from a lifetime of hunting out of the house and made a bonfire of them.

Re: Don't condemn your kids to co-ownership. [Re: Creekrunner] #8725081 11/03/22 12:45 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,951
D
Dave Davidson Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
D
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,951
A for instance and non brag here. I’m not wealthy.
I bought my 133 acre POS place 40+ years ago.
It’s good for nothing but hunting, fishing, etc.

No brag because I bought it as a get away place and not an investment. Who other than me would want that place? All trees and rocks. I paid $405 per acre. It’s all in my name. Now worth a cool million bucks. It’s not for sale because it’s my sanity place and I have enough to live on. I don’t do expensive stuff. Only one Grandkid has shown any interest in it.

When I’m gone I hope my wife just sells it.


Without a sense of urgency, nothing ever happens.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley, Rancher Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Re: Don't condemn your kids to co-ownership. [Re: Creekrunner] #8725091 11/03/22 12:52 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,951
S
scalebuster Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
S
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,951
I feel sorry for anyone that has family land and condemns some kids to inherit it. This is the biggest one upper thread of the year. I can’t imagine how tough it would be to fight over how to divide a property. Poor bastards.

Re: Don't condemn your kids to co-ownership. [Re: Creekrunner] #8725586 11/03/22 05:09 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,290
R
Roo Basher Offline
Pro Tracker
Offline
Pro Tracker
R
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,290
The worst thing you can do to your children is not physically divide your assets between them.

This song by Corb Lund is all about that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Yb3dRyLMB8


Well I was born in this valley
On this ranch I was raised
I learned to lope, rope and dally
On the S Lazy H

Well the roots of my people
They run deep on this place
I am sixth generation
On the S Lazy H

And when it came to the future
I never gave it a thought
If there were broncs to be broken
Endless steers to be caught
Well my youth it was carefree
For the work was my play
And what I loved would always be there
On the S Lazy H

I had one beloved sister
A few years younger than me
Before a sole cowboy had kissed her
She left for school in the east
Me I might have gone to college
Might have liked to fly planes
But my dad needed help to
Run the S Lazy H

So I worked there 'long side him
Put adult years in this place
And I gained appreciation
For the lines on his face
And when mom had grown older
And when dad passed away
It fell to me to look after
The S Lazy H

By now my sister she had married
A sharp attorney back east
We didn't see eye to eye but
I did my best to make peace
What did they see when they looked over
Over the fence one fine day
They saw a whole lot a value
In the S Lazy H

So after thought and assessment
The court awarded them half
And no cow / calf operation
Carries that kind of cash
Well I worked through the numbers
Worked them every which way
Yeah I went through the numbers
Oh and boys I'm afraid
I had to sell twenty sections
Of the S Lazy H

Sometimes right isn't equal
Sometimes equal's not fair
There will soon be rows of houses
On that ridge over there
Many lifetimes of labour
Will be all but erased
So shed a tear and look skyward
God help the S lazy H

The last few years were a struggle
But I gave it my best
And I tried to go forward
On the land that was left
Well I have lived with the sorrow
And I will die with the shame
For now the bank owns what's left of
The S Lazy H

Re: Don't condemn your kids to co-ownership. [Re: scalebuster] #8725588 11/03/22 05:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,290
R
Roo Basher Offline
Pro Tracker
Offline
Pro Tracker
R
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,290
It is actually incredibly nasty, we are going through that now. For rental property and homes with my inlaws.

I didn't have a friendship with my sister in law, and now I have a full on war.

Re: Don't condemn your kids to co-ownership. [Re: Roo Basher] #8725671 11/03/22 07:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,555
Txhunter65 Offline
Veteran Tracker
Offline
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,555
Originally Posted by Roo Basher
The worst thing you can do to your children is not physically divide your assets between them.

This song by Corb Lund is all about that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Yb3dRyLMB8


Well I was born in this valley
On this ranch I was raised
I learned to lope, rope and dally
On the S Lazy H

Well the roots of my people
They run deep on this place
I am sixth generation
On the S Lazy H

And when it came to the future
I never gave it a thought
If there were broncs to be broken
Endless steers to be caught
Well my youth it was carefree
For the work was my play
And what I loved would always be there
On the S Lazy H

I had one beloved sister
A few years younger than me
Before a sole cowboy had kissed her
She left for school in the east
Me I might have gone to college
Might have liked to fly planes
But my dad needed help to
Run the S Lazy H

So I worked there 'long side him
Put adult years in this place
And I gained appreciation
For the lines on his face
And when mom had grown older
And when dad passed away
It fell to me to look after
The S Lazy H

By now my sister she had married
A sharp attorney back east
We didn't see eye to eye but
I did my best to make peace
What did they see when they looked over
Over the fence one fine day
They saw a whole lot a value
In the S Lazy H

So after thought and assessment
The court awarded them half
And no cow / calf operation
Carries that kind of cash
Well I worked through the numbers
Worked them every which way
Yeah I went through the numbers
Oh and boys I'm afraid
I had to sell twenty sections
Of the S Lazy H

Sometimes right isn't equal
Sometimes equal's not fair
There will soon be rows of houses
On that ridge over there
Many lifetimes of labour
Will be all but erased
So shed a tear and look skyward
God help the S lazy H

The last few years were a struggle
But I gave it my best
And I tried to go forward
On the land that was left
Well I have lived with the sorrow
And I will die with the shame
For now the bank owns what's left of
The S Lazy H

Just couldn't make a go of it with a measly 12,800 acres... roflmao

Re: Don't condemn your kids to co-ownership. [Re: Roo Basher] #8725676 11/03/22 07:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,923
B
BenBob Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
B
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,923
Originally Posted by Roo Basher
The worst thing you can do to your children is not physically divide your assets between them.

This song by Corb Lund is all about that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Yb3dRyLMB8


Well I was born in this valley
On this ranch I was raised
I learned to lope, rope and dally
On the S Lazy H

Well the roots of my people
They run deep on this place
I am sixth generation
On the S Lazy H

And when it came to the future
I never gave it a thought
If there were broncs to be broken
Endless steers to be caught
Well my youth it was carefree
For the work was my play
And what I loved would always be there
On the S Lazy H

I had one beloved sister
A few years younger than me
Before a sole cowboy had kissed her
She left for school in the east
Me I might have gone to college
Might have liked to fly planes
But my dad needed help to
Run the S Lazy H

So I worked there 'long side him
Put adult years in this place
And I gained appreciation
For the lines on his face
And when mom had grown older
And when dad passed away
It fell to me to look after
The S Lazy H

By now my sister she had married
A sharp attorney back east
We didn't see eye to eye but
I did my best to make peace
What did they see when they looked over
Over the fence one fine day
They saw a whole lot a value
In the S Lazy H

So after thought and assessment
The court awarded them half
And no cow / calf operation
Carries that kind of cash
Well I worked through the numbers
Worked them every which way
Yeah I went through the numbers
Oh and boys I'm afraid
I had to sell twenty sections
Of the S Lazy H

Sometimes right isn't equal
Sometimes equal's not fair
There will soon be rows of houses
On that ridge over there
Many lifetimes of labour
Will be all but erased
So shed a tear and look skyward
God help the S lazy H

The last few years were a struggle
But I gave it my best
And I tried to go forward
On the land that was left
Well I have lived with the sorrow
And I will die with the shame
For now the bank owns what's left of
The S Lazy H





That song does puts things into perspective. Our family had our piece of heaven, could not get along and ended up selling it and one sibling I have not talked to since, nor do I care to.


Tired, Wired, and Uninspired
Re: Don't condemn your kids to co-ownership. [Re: scalebuster] #8725881 11/04/22 12:23 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 29,986
T
txtrophy85 Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
T
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 29,986
Originally Posted by scalebuster
I feel sorry for anyone that has family land and condemns some kids to inherit it. This is the biggest one upper thread of the year. I can’t imagine how tough it would be to fight over how to divide a property. Poor bastards.



Not really a one upper thread….many THF members are landowners and when the owner passes away and heirs fight over land it gets nasty.

IMO it’s a pertinent topic to discuss


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Don't condemn your kids to co-ownership. [Re: Creekrunner] #8725894 11/04/22 12:40 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 22,628
Creekrunner Online Content OP
THF Celebrity
OP Online Content
THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 22,628
"Discussion" implies a level of intelligence that can understand another person's perspective without agreeing with them. It also precludes being able to beat your chest and expound upon what a badazz you are. Won every fight, bedded every girl.


...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
Re: Don't condemn your kids to co-ownership. [Re: txtrophy85] #8727071 11/05/22 03:33 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,876
T
T Bone Online Happy
THF Trophy Hunter
Online Happy
THF Trophy Hunter
T
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,876
Originally Posted by txtrophy85
Originally Posted by scalebuster
I feel sorry for anyone that has family land and condemns some kids to inherit it. This is the biggest one upper thread of the year. I can’t imagine how tough it would be to fight over how to divide a property. Poor bastards.



Not really a one upper thread….many THF members are landowners and when the owner passes away and heirs fight over land it gets nasty.

IMO it’s a pertinent topic to discuss


It absolutely is relevant to many THF’ers. If you’re not in that situation, I understand how it might seem like a problem you’d love to have.. but don’t let your resentment/bitterness (or whatever you want to call it) cloud the fact that it’s critical for families who are in this position to have a documented plan for future disbursements that everyone is aware of well in advance of the event.


Originally Posted by Jungleexplorer
I really hate to do what I am about to do, because it will be very painful for you.


Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

© 2004-2022 OUTDOOR SITES NETWORK all rights reserved USA and Worldwide
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3